-----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres discoveries by 1,000 Genome Project volunteers led to a Z SNP revolution that shook the entire I1 haplogroup. [[Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings. The I1 generics will be sorted out in a more timely fashion with the Z snps, but this will still be a very slow process, and it could be speeded up by the (more costly) process of extensions to 111 STRs. KN ]]

Dear friends, As many of you know, Julie Frame Falk and I have spent a few years working to decipher recLOH events involving a number of families belonging to the I1 haplogroup. With that in mind, we created the 21,21 project (I1 recLOH - YCAII a,b = 21,21) and facilitated member participation in the "Walk Through the Y" program to discover SNP's that could be useful to our investigation. SNP's L803 and L802 were discovered that way. Simultaneously, discoveries by 1,000 Genome Project volunteers led to a Z SNP revolution that shook the entire I1 haplogroup. It could then be established that we were dealing with two main 21,21 groups: those who were Z63+ and those who were Z58+ (upstream from newly found SNP's L803 and L802). Based on this new information, our project had to adapt and evolve. That is why, as of 01/31/2012, we have expanded the focus of our research to encompass Z58, Z63 and all of their downstream SNP's. Hence, the new "I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+" project. We would like to encourage all who have tested positive for Z58, Z63 and/or their downstream SNP's to join: L338, L573, L592, L802, L803, Z138, Z139, Z140, Z141, Z382, Z58, Z59, Z60, Z61, Z62, Z63, Z73. If you belong to the T2 subgroup of I1 (known to be Z63+), you are also welcome to become a member. Needless to say, if you are I1 "AS-generic" and haven't yet tested for Z58 and Z63, we urge you to do so. As our project naturally grows, we will continue to aim at the discovery of new SNP's. In fact, we should start a Z63 WTY campaign shortly, and hope to officially establish various Z63 (T2) subgroups through new SNP's. Other WTY initiatives should follow. To learn more about the new "I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+" project and join our efforts, you may find us at the following address: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/2121/default.aspx . Best regards, Julie Frame Falk & Aaron Torres

Yes, your whole haplotype is very standard M284+ L126+ Isles-Scot -----Original Message----- From: William McReynolds Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:34 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New to Group Thanks for your response. I checked the markers you mentioned and you are correct. I have had 111 markers tested with FTDNA and my kit # is 12835 if that helps. Bill

Thanks for your response. I checked the markers you mentioned and you are correct. I have had 111 markers tested with FTDNA and my kit # is 12835 if that helps. Bill -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 7:11 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New to Group You are probably also L369+ If you had a few more markers you'd probably be 15 at DYS437 and 11 at DYS464b. Your known ancestry makes sense; this clade is called the Scot clade of M284+ for reason of that being the location of the highest frequency of presence today. Ulster in Ireland also received lots of these Scots during the historic era, alone. See "tree and map for haplogroup I" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for an overview of how your clade fits into the whole y haplogroup I -----Original Message----- From: William McReynolds Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:59 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] New to Group I am William McReynolds and have recently joined the group. I had my DNA done with FTDNA awhile back. I have been assigned to HG I2b1a1 and my DYS markers are as follows: 393 = 15 390 = 24 19 = 15 391 = 10 385 = 15, 16 426 = 11 388 = 13 439 = 11 389i = 13 392 = 12 389 ii = 29 Positive SNP's M223, M284, L126 Presumed Positive SNP's L41, P19, P576, M170, P212, U179,M258, P38, P215, L68, M438, P214, P216, L35, P218, L181, L37, P217, L59, L36, P219, P220, P221, P222, P223, L34 & L137. I read through the archives and did not find anything on HG I2b1a1. I show my ignorance because all this is over my head, although I am interested in genetics. Family research has shown that my ancestors immigrated from Ireland in 1737. Their father was born in Scotland in 1672 and moved to Ireland during the Irish Rebellion. I originally joined a Clan Donald Genetics Study to sort it all out. It turns out we were not Scots Gaelic ancestry but possibly Norse. I hope to find some answers here. Thank You Bill McReynolds ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am William McReynolds and have recently joined the group. I had my DNA done with FTDNA awhile back. I have been assigned to HG I2b1a1 and my DYS markers are as follows: 393 = 15 390 = 24 19 = 15 391 = 10 385 = 15, 16 426 = 11 388 = 13 439 = 11 389i = 13 392 = 12 389 ii = 29 Positive SNP's M223, M284, L126 Presumed Positive SNP's L41, P19, P576, M170, P212, U179,M258, P38, P215, L68, M438, P214, P216, L35, P218, L181, L37, P217, L59, L36, P219, P220, P221, P222, P223, L34 & L137. I read through the archives and did not find anything on HG I2b1a1. I show my ignorance because all this is over my head, although I am interested in genetics. Family research has shown that my ancestors immigrated from Ireland in 1737. Their father was born in Scotland in 1672 and moved to Ireland during the Irish Rebellion. I originally joined a Clan Donald Genetics Study to sort it all out. It turns out we were not Scots Gaelic ancestry but possibly Norse. I hope to find some answers here. Thank You Bill McReynolds

You are probably also L369+ If you had a few more markers you'd probably be 15 at DYS437 and 11 at DYS464b. Your known ancestry makes sense; this clade is called the Scot clade of M284+ for reason of that being the location of the highest frequency of presence today. Ulster in Ireland also received lots of these Scots during the historic era, alone. See "tree and map for haplogroup I" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for an overview of how your clade fits into the whole y haplogroup I -----Original Message----- From: William McReynolds Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:59 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] New to Group I am William McReynolds and have recently joined the group. I had my DNA done with FTDNA awhile back. I have been assigned to HG I2b1a1 and my DYS markers are as follows: 393 = 15 390 = 24 19 = 15 391 = 10 385 = 15, 16 426 = 11 388 = 13 439 = 11 389i = 13 392 = 12 389 ii = 29 Positive SNP's M223, M284, L126 Presumed Positive SNP's L41, P19, P576, M170, P212, U179,M258, P38, P215, L68, M438, P214, P216, L35, P218, L181, L37, P217, L59, L36, P219, P220, P221, P222, P223, L34 & L137. I read through the archives and did not find anything on HG I2b1a1. I show my ignorance because all this is over my head, although I am interested in genetics. Family research has shown that my ancestors immigrated from Ireland in 1737. Their father was born in Scotland in 1672 and moved to Ireland during the Irish Rebellion. I originally joined a Clan Donald Genetics Study to sort it all out. It turns out we were not Scots Gaelic ancestry but possibly Norse. I hope to find some answers here. Thank You Bill McReynolds ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here's something interesting I came across on a blog at the Discover magazine site. Population structure using haplotype data New software gives a more fine-grained understanding of relationships between populations and individuals. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/01/population-structure-using-haplotype-data/ -- Aaron 

I have seen no one Z138+ but Z139- or vice versa; but maybe someone else has? -----Original Message----- From: Ray Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:36 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1-AS2 further tests Good morning Having tested for and being positive for Z138 and Z139 are there any further tests at this time for an I1-AS2 I notice on ISOGG they show Z139 as being I1f2 does that make Z138 a branch off Z139 What additional information does the WTY testing give over the standard tests, it says that you have to be accepted to test, so what is the criteria for acceptable. Ray Jenkins Kit#186150 Ysearch AETEN I1-AS2, Z138+,Z139+ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning Having tested for and being positive for Z138 and Z139 are there any further tests at this time for an I1-AS2 I notice on ISOGG they show Z139 as being I1f2 does that make Z138 a branch off Z139 What additional information does the WTY testing give over the standard tests, it says that you have to be accepted to test, so what is the criteria for acceptable. Ray Jenkins Kit#186150 Ysearch AETEN I1-AS2, Z138+,Z139+

I notice the very downstream snp Z141 is now available at FTDNA’s “advanced tests” (NOT advanced snp tests) for ordering. It might not be phyloequivalent to Z140 in spite of 1000 Genomes tree from limited tests. We need to confirm that. Reminder of who has turned out Z140+: I1-AS1, presumably I1-AS8, and the giant 14/22 complex including I1-AS5 and I1-AS6. There are a few I1-generics who also ended up Z140+ I believe. Representatives of all these clades ought to order Z141.

Dear I2b1/M223 Project Members, I am happy to share the news: our latest WTY fundraising initiative has been a success! Thanks to the generosity of many of our project members, not only did we have enough funds to send two members from the M284+ subgroup of M223 to WTY (one Isles E and one Isles Sc), we were also able to send participants from several other subgroups as well. In total, we currently have no less than 7 WTY participants, from all areas of our project: 199243 - Gunning (Isles Sc) 12526 -  Farmer (Isles E) 127052 - McCall (Cont 1) 65183 - Michaels (Cont 2b, P95-) 83425 - Wilson (I2b1-XX) E5922 - Hofstee (I2b1-X) 48274 - Griffin (Roots Group 2a) When the exams are completed, we should have several new SNP's that could be useful to many members of our project. Good luck to our participants and, once again, I would like to thank all of you who donated and volunteered. Aaron Torres I2b1/M223 Project Administrator

Tim, I would say only test him if it makes sense for the Davis project. I think there are at least 3 people in your Davis family with 111 markers already. You guys already have enough data to distinguish you from other I-L160 people. The Dinarics all have markers very similar to each other and need all the help they can get. Bernie On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Timothy Davis <tdavisfam@gmail.com> wrote: > Bernie > > In our "Davis, William K87577" family group (Davis Surname Project) we have > one DYS557 = 17 member. My twig is DYS557 = 15, and the rest of our family > is DYS557 = 16. Would it be worthwhile to 111 marker test, or additional > SNP test, this member (Kit#166819)? > > Tim > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:01 AM, <y-dna-haplogroup-i-request@rootsweb.com > >wrote: > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? (Bernie Cullen) > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com> > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Cc: > > Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:37:47 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? > > Simo, > > > > Thanks for your efforts to find new clusters in Dinaric. Anything we can > > find is useful. But maybe we will have to wait for someone to start > > something like a "1000 Genomes of Russia" project to make real progress. > > (The 1000 Genomes project does not include any samples from Central or > > Eastern Europe unfortunately, and only 1 Dinaric person has been included > > in the project so far, he was from Finland). > > > > Earlier this month another WTY was ordered, approved, and paid for by a > > Dinaric-N person with ancestry from Poland. Maybe he will get lucky and > > find something. > > > > Looking at the colorized results table might be useful in finding > clusters. > > > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > > > > Right now the FTDNA I2a Project has placed all the Dinaric and Disles 111 > > marker results at the top of the page, along with 111 markers from the > > other subclades of I-P37.2. Maybe you or someone else can find some > useful > > patterns. As far as I can tell, there is only one Dinaric-S person with > 111 > > markers and DYS557=17. > > > > Bernie > > > > > > To contact the Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I list administrator, send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > > To post a message to the Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I mailing list, send an email > to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of the > > email with no additional text. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again at berniecullen@gmail.com--

Bernie In our "Davis, William K87577" family group (Davis Surname Project) we have one DYS557 = 17 member. My twig is DYS557 = 15, and the rest of our family is DYS557 = 16. Would it be worthwhile to 111 marker test, or additional SNP test, this member (Kit#166819)? Tim On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:01 AM, <y-dna-haplogroup-i-request@rootsweb.com>wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? (Bernie Cullen) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com> > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:37:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? > Simo, > > Thanks for your efforts to find new clusters in Dinaric. Anything we can > find is useful. But maybe we will have to wait for someone to start > something like a "1000 Genomes of Russia" project to make real progress. > (The 1000 Genomes project does not include any samples from Central or > Eastern Europe unfortunately, and only 1 Dinaric person has been included > in the project so far, he was from Finland). > > Earlier this month another WTY was ordered, approved, and paid for by a > Dinaric-N person with ancestry from Poland. Maybe he will get lucky and > find something. > > Looking at the colorized results table might be useful in finding clusters. > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ycolorized > > Right now the FTDNA I2a Project has placed all the Dinaric and Disles 111 > marker results at the top of the page, along with 111 markers from the > other subclades of I-P37.2. Maybe you or someone else can find some useful > patterns. As far as I can tell, there is only one Dinaric-S person with 111 > markers and DYS557=17. > > Bernie > > > To contact the Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I list administrator, send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I mailing list, send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > >

Simo, Thanks for your efforts to find new clusters in Dinaric. Anything we can find is useful. But maybe we will have to wait for someone to start something like a "1000 Genomes of Russia" project to make real progress. (The 1000 Genomes project does not include any samples from Central or Eastern Europe unfortunately, and only 1 Dinaric person has been included in the project so far, he was from Finland). Earlier this month another WTY was ordered, approved, and paid for by a Dinaric-N person with ancestry from Poland. Maybe he will get lucky and find something. Looking at the colorized results table might be useful in finding clusters. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Right now the FTDNA I2a Project has placed all the Dinaric and Disles 111 marker results at the top of the page, along with 111 markers from the other subclades of I-P37.2. Maybe you or someone else can find some useful patterns. As far as I can tell, there is only one Dinaric-S person with 111 markers and DYS557=17. Bernie

As far I saw in Dinaric North there is very few DYS=17, in FTDNA project i2a there is only one DYS557=17 among Norths comparing to all others which are 16. I check y search too and there is a few DYS557=17 among Norths but vast majority is 16. Is there a possibility that mutation happened after separation of Norths and Souths simultaneusly in both populations? I am not claiming that all YUgoslav Dinaric South haplotypes belong to this cluster (because it doesn't, other South haplotypes in ex Yugoslavia are DYS=16 or lower), but only one part of it. Simo 25. јануар 2012. 21.18, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> је написао/ла: > Then again, when I go to Ysearch, the 557=17 Dinarics come mainly from > Poland, and perhaps include more 448 = 20 than 448 = 19 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:48 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? > > I agree that DYS557=17 appears to have a correlation with Balkans. Does > 557 > =17 correlate with DYs448 = 19? Or how about DYS449 correlation? > > Ken > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: simo > Recently I spent some time by observing > haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South > Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on > Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of > teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be > born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the > existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be > DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 > or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for > particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years > ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Since there is no any new SNPs for I2a1b1 Dinaric (and there were several tested individuals for WTY but without results) I wonder if there is any chance to recognize some clusters among Dinaric North and South on the basis of existing STR markers. I am particularly interested in Dinaric South, as a member of group. Recently I spent some time by observing haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan. I know that Ken Nordtvedt wrote about specific "Croatian" cluster with value 14 on DYS 19, and this cluster also had 17 on DYS 557. In fact so called "Croatian" cluster is just younger branch of this wider cluster. Between this two clusters maybe it should be worth of noticing one cluster of haplotypes with value 12 on DYS439. So the division of haplogroup I2a1b1 Dinaric South should be: DYS 557 - 17 or 16 (1200 years ago), then among the group with 17 on 557- 12 or 13 on DYS439 (1000 years ago) and on the end "croatian" group among those which are 13 on DYS439 with the value 14 on DYS 19 (800 years ago). This is of course work of an amateur, and maybe I don't have enough data and knowledge to claim this (Use mostly public databases). That 's why I hope that someone more accurate and competent will check this markers and say is there any chance that this what I said is true. Just to say that I couldn't find no one Dinaric South haplotype outside of former Yugoslavia (except one Hungarian) which is 17 on DYS 557.

Then again, when I go to Ysearch, the 557=17 Dinarics come mainly from Poland, and perhaps include more 448 = 20 than 448 = 19 -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:48 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? I agree that DYS557=17 appears to have a correlation with Balkans. Does 557 =17 correlate with DYs448 = 19? Or how about DYS449 correlation? Ken -----Original Message----- From: simo Recently I spent some time by observing haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree that DYS557=17 appears to have a correlation with Balkans. Does 557 =17 correlate with DYs448 = 19? Or how about DYS449 correlation? Ken -----Original Message----- From: simo Recently I spent some time by observing haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan.

It's one or the other. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Bartlett Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 6:32 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] re your recent reply Just wanted to check if you thought I had mispelled a surname or if you had. The one in question is my Coe, not Cole a you indicated. Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just wanted to check if you thought I had mispelled a surname or if you had. The one in question is my Coe, not Cole a you indicated. Thanks