I should have said "publicly viewable" not publicly available in my first sentence. FTDNA has made some of the 23andMe Y chromosome SNPs available for purchase. But when people transfer their 23andMe SNPs to FTDNA's Family Finder, the exact SNP results won't be visible by anyone except the person tested, not viewable by their matches, by their group administrators or by the public. And this is a good thing, for privacy at least. Bernie On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com> wrote: > Linda, > > FTDNA allowing the upload of 23andMe SNPs won't be helpful, mainly > because FTDNA will not make these SNPs publicly available for good > reasons, and is unlikely to do special examination of these SNPs on > its own. >

Linda, FTDNA allowing the upload of 23andMe SNPs won't be helpful, mainly because FTDNA will not make these SNPs publicly available for good reasons, and is unlikely to do special examination of these SNPs on its own. But the 23andMe Y chromosome SNPs are useful, and I recommend that every man who tested at 23andMe send in his Y SNPs to Adriano Squecco's project, instructions are here: http://daver.info/ysub/ Many big discoveries have already been made by the project (such as the importance of L460 which caused the rearrangement of all groups in I2), so it less likely that we will find a new discovery that will affect a lot of people in haplogroup I, but anyone could find a new result that defines a new subclade. And there are some major groups separated by thousands of years from the rest of haplogroup I that don't have any results in the project, for example the I2a*/I2a1*-France group as far as I can tell. Bernie On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Linda Threadgill <llt1948@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > Now that FTDNA is receiving SNP raw data from 23andMe, will  or how will this information effect the need to do additional testing such as the WTY project? > Linda >

Done, Z58, Z63 and Z131 ---------------------------- From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> It is probably time for the basic Z snps --- Z58 and Z63 --- with Z131 as well if you want to splurge. I1xL22 is dividing up into Z58+ or Z63+ or negative for both. Z131+ has not been found yet although 1000 Genomes says it exists in some of their samples. If Z58+ there is further subdivision by other Z snps. -----Original Message----- From: Sam Eaton Subject: [yDNAhgI] Are there any further tests that you recomend. Your Halogroup Tests I1 P40+ P30+ M307+ M253+ L81+ L80+ L75+ L64+ L348+ L187+ L186+ L157.1+ L125+ L124+ L123+ L121+ P259- P109- M72- M507- M227- M21- L338- L242- L234- L22- L211- L205-

Note; your 21 at 447 is a super guaranteed "22" in that it even went further off I1 modal. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Harvey Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:59 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] AS6 Z60 Ordered Ken, Just ordered the Z60 on behalf of our bunch of 14 Harvey M253-AS6 group. We are proud to be part of the 14/22 cludge with the exception of our DYS447 = 21. Perhaps it was the stopover in Ulster that did it. All the best. Larry Harvey Kit#= 19860 y-Search = S3BHN ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-----Original Message----- From: Colin Ferguson I am particularly interested in I2a2b-M423-Isles-A1 and A2. In Nordtvedt's April 5, 2009 table of modal haplotypes the differences between A1 and A2 were: Isles A1 DYS389-2=30; DYS456=17 Isles A2 DYS389-2=29; DYS456=18 [[That's still it. Isles-A is very young. If other markers fairly consistently differed in a correlated way, they would be mentioned; but they don't seem to do so, including the new 68-111 markers. ]] My database on which this division is seen has 35 A1 and 16 A2 haplotypes. KN ]] Until an SNP is available is it worth distinguishing between A1 and A2? [[Sure; the 389ii and 456 bimodalities correlate highly with each other. We don't want to throw that information about history away. On the other hand one is not prevented from calling themselves just Isles-A, or for that matter just Isles. Searching for nodes in the tree which stand out demographically is a constantly moving thing as more data flows in. KN]]

It is probably time for the basic Z snps --- Z58 and Z63 --- with Z131 as well if you want to splurge. I1xL22 is dividing up into Z58+ or Z63+ or negative for both. Z131+ has not been found yet although 1000 Genomes says it exists in some of their samples. If Z58+ there is further subdivision by other Z snps. -----Original Message----- From: Sam Eaton Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:51 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Are there any further tests that you recomend. Your Halogroup Tests I1 P40+ P30+ M307+ M253+ L81+ L80+ L75+ L64+ L348+ L187+ L186+ L157.1+ L125+ L124+ L123+ L121+ P259- P109- M72- M507- M227- M21- L338- L242- L234- L22- L211- L205- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is there a current summary available somewhere? The problem with using the modals in the colorized pages of Y-Haplogroup I2a Project is they are a dependent on the how the haplotypes therein were assigned that classification. I am particularly interested in I2a2b-M423-Isles-A1 and A2. In Nordtvedt's April 5, 2009 table of modal haplotypes the differences between A1 and A2 were: Isles A1 DYS389-2=30; DYS456=17 Isles A2 DYS389-2=29; DYS456=18 In the project A1 and A2 differ at 9 markers. Looking at the results I see all the A2 conform to the above but with A1 it looks like 4 of the haplotypes could have gone either way: Kits 193525, 153528 and 42511 all have DYS389-2=30; DYS456=18. Kit 179468 has DYS389-2=29; DYS456=17 Since there are only 5 haplotypes in A2 the resultant mode hasn't yet converged on the definition. This got me to wondering how the project decides if an Isles haplotype is A1 or A2 . There is reference to use of J.T. Cullen's Haplogroup I subclade predictor but the modal haplotypes built into that program do not include these, instead it has I1b-P37.2-IslesA and I1b-P37.2-Isles. Until an SNP is available is it worth distinguishing between A1 and A2? Thanks, Colin

Your Halogroup Tests I1 P40+ P30+ M307+ M253+ L81+ L80+ L75+ L64+ L348+ L187+ L186+ L157.1+ L125+ L124+ L123+ L121+ P259- P109- M72- M507- M227- M21- L338- L242- L234- L22- L211- L205-

23andMe only tests for certain SNP's and certain blocks of data. When it comes to Y DNA and mitochondrial DNA it tests for known SNP's. 23andMe doesn't even test for the latest subclade SNP's. It has absolutely no bearing on Walk the Y or any other full sequencing projects of the Y chromosome. Dora On 2/3/2012 5:38 PM, Linda Threadgill wrote: > Hi, > Now that FTDNA is receiving SNP raw data from 23andMe, will or how will this information effect the need to do additional testing such as the WTY project? > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX

I would not say L803+ "is in between". Eventually with more information we will have nodes and branches separating into branch lines to L803+, to AS9, and to AS16 plus whatever. L803+ seems quite young; so it certainly was not time wise "in between". kit 181820 probably should wait for Z61, Z73..... and then test for them. -----Original Message----- From: S & L Little Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 4:35 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] L-803 ? Kit #181820 is M253 AS-9; Z58+,Z59+,Z 60+, Z138-, Z140-. Ken Nordtvedt's I1 M253 Tree, 1 January 2012, has this "branch" leading to AS9 and AS16, with L803 in between. Does L803 separate AS16 from AS 9? Location of L803 relative to Z 73 ? Would it be desirable to test for L803, or wait until Z73 is available ? Thanks for your advice. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kit #181820 is M253 AS-9; Z58+,Z59+,Z 60+, Z138-, Z140-. Ken Nordtvedt's I1 M253 Tree, 1 January 2012, has this "branch" leading to AS9 and AS16, with L803 in between. Does L803 separate AS16 from AS 9? Location of L803 relative to Z 73 ? Would it be desirable to test for L803, or wait until Z73 is available ? Thanks for your advice.

Hi, Now that FTDNA is receiving SNP raw data from 23andMe, will or how will this information effect the need to do additional testing such as the WTY project? Linda

I show you also Z140- So right now there are no more z snps pertinent to your branch. There may be if FTDNA adds them to catalog; they exist in 1000 Genomes tree. Just stay in touch and you will hear when Z61, Z73, etc. are available. -----Original Message----- From: Victor Jensen Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:02 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z60 SNP Test My Z60 SNP test just came in positive (Z60+). Ken, what should I test next? Vic Jensen YSearch DM35M ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are multiple classification schemes out there. My private database has you with AS6, and in a significant 448 = 19 cluster within AS6 (448 = 20 being norm) But since the 68-111 set of STRs came along, I have noticed that AS5 and AS6 are parts of a greater "complex" involving 14/22/15 at 393, 447, 464d This complex splintered itself quite early. While someone from AS5 has just ordered Z60, it would not hurt to for you to do Z60 as well. Have you done any Z snps already? You should be Z140+ also. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Pallette Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:18 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Important Z60+ in I1 Today On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > A person from the L338+ Z140+ subhaplogroup in I1 today received a Z60+ > result. This is important for the I1 tree structure. > > I have made this tentative revision to “Tree for I1” at > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > We need someone from the AS5/AS6 14/22 complex to report in with a Z60 > result. They would be predicted to be derived. Dr. Nordtvedt: I am listed as being AS6 in the Norman CE Project (54% likelihood at the Cullen Predictor) but I am listed as AS Generic at the Haplogroup I Project. My Ysearch ID is 65X9Z. Would it be worthwhile for me to take the Z60 test? Thanks, Mark Pallette > > We still have not seen a Z131+ dna sample. > > Z58- Z63- continue to be relatively plentiful in the reported results. > Amazing that 1000 Genomes did not see one out of the 15 or so dna samples > they used within I1. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

snps can happen at location of any generational transition on any branch of the y tree (with equal probability, more or less). Sometimes they might happen within a clade to further tag a downstream point and divide a clade. The amazing thing is how often they tag entire clades earlier found from STR extended haplotype clustering. (I am not talking about games played with the mini or micro haplotypes). Sometimes they slice in a different way very weak classifications like C1 and C2 in M223*. I'm talking about L801. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:36 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Fw: [DNA] New I1 Haplogroup Project: Z58+ and Z63+/T2 <Dr Nordtvedt: Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings.> I think it is important that the new SNP tree is compatible to the old STR tree, i.e. no one old STR subclade is partitioned among two or more SNPs. The only thing which probably will be not quite adequate is the descriptor AS of some STR subclades, but this is not a big problem. Best regards, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:11 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Fw: [DNA] New I1 Haplogroup Project: Z58+ and Z63+/T2 -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres discoveries by 1,000 Genome Project volunteers led to a Z SNP revolution that shook the entire I1 haplogroup. [[Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings. The I1 generics will be sorted out in a more timely fashion with the Z snps, but this will still be a very slow process, and it could be speeded up by the (more costly) process of extensions to 111 STRs. KN ]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4784 - Release Date: 02/03/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > A person from the L338+ Z140+ subhaplogroup in I1 today received a Z60+ result.  This is important for the I1 tree structure. > > I have made this tentative revision to “Tree for I1” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > We need someone from the AS5/AS6 14/22 complex to report in with a Z60 result.  They would be predicted to be derived. Dr. Nordtvedt: I am listed as being AS6 in the Norman CE Project (54% likelihood at the Cullen Predictor) but I am listed as AS Generic at the Haplogroup I Project. My Ysearch ID is 65X9Z. Would it be worthwhile for me to take the Z60 test? Thanks, Mark Pallette > > We still have not seen a Z131+ dna sample. > > Z58- Z63- continue to be relatively plentiful in the reported results.  Amazing that 1000 Genomes did not see one out of the 15 or so dna samples they used within I1. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<Dr Nordtvedt: Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings.> I think it is important that the new SNP tree is compatible to the old STR tree, i.e. no one old STR subclade is partitioned among two or more SNPs. The only thing which probably will be not quite adequate is the descriptor AS of some STR subclades, but this is not a big problem. Best regards, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:11 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Fw: [DNA] New I1 Haplogroup Project: Z58+ and Z63+/T2 -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres discoveries by 1,000 Genome Project volunteers led to a Z SNP revolution that shook the entire I1 haplogroup. [[Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings. The I1 generics will be sorted out in a more timely fashion with the Z snps, but this will still be a very slow process, and it could be speeded up by the (more costly) process of extensions to 111 STRs. KN ]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4784 - Release Date: 02/03/12

A person from the L338+ Z140+ subhaplogroup in I1 today received a Z60+ result. This is important for the I1 tree structure. I have made this tentative revision to “Tree for I1” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net We need someone from the AS5/AS6 14/22 complex to report in with a Z60 result. They would be predicted to be derived. We still have not seen a Z131+ dna sample. Z58- Z63- continue to be relatively plentiful in the reported results. Amazing that 1000 Genomes did not see one out of the 15 or so dna samples they used within I1.

My Z60 SNP test just came in positive (Z60+). Ken, what should I test next? Vic Jensen YSearch DM35M

Y-STR clustering alone was not able to answer our questions regarding the various 21,21 families. Yes, this method is able to predict future SNP results many times, but not always. "AS-generics" were previously grouped in one big blob, and now are turning out positive for all sorts of different SNP's. Besides, there are individuals whom the I1 project had predicted to be positive for a specific SNP and who turned out to be negative for it (Z58 comes to mind). Y-STR clustering does not answers all questions. That is why SNP tests are always necessary. Both things are complimentary. One shouldn't exclude the other. Aaron Torres [DNA] Fw:  New I1 Haplogroup Project: Z58+ and Z63+/T2 To: <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com>, <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <ABAE0B04A3FB486C9A23DE9A56BBD499@kenPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original [[Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings. The I1 generics will be sorted out in a more timely fashion with the Z snps, but this will still be a very slow process, and it could be speeded up by the (more costly) process of extensions to 111 STRs. KN ]]