Z59+ here. Testing Z60 is now the only option I suppose. Kit N6262 Y-search: QG86J Wim

Kit # 181820 ("M253-AS9" ) Y-Search 2F5KC, just posted L803 - . (Z60+,Z59+,Z58+,Z140-,Z138-,P259-,P109-, M72-,M227-,M21-,L803-,L338-,L22- ) Upgrade 67 to 11 "Pending", results predicted 4/2/12. Waiting to order Z 73 ??? On Feb 13, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > I finally did do some tmrca estimates by variance for the AS9/AS16 > complex > and your L803 > > Estimated age for node where your L803 line separates from AS9/AS16 > complex > line to be slightly more than 3000 years ago. > > Estimated age for tmrca of AS9/AS16 complex to be slightly more than > 2000 > years ago. Your L803+ is much younger. > > I think this all shows now on my revised "Tree for I1" which is > online. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy Silfven > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:19 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Early North Scandinavian I1 clade/haplogroup? > > Ken ~ > > Thanks once again for your work in helping (me) to better understand > this HG > stuff. > > You said: "Their snp status seems to be Z60+ but Z140- > It includes AS9 and AS16, but is more. > L803+ branch line leaves this population quite early, but I have not > done a > node age estimate yet. > > Their geography seems more than usual amount of Scandinavian. > > Their str identifiers consist of DYS19 = 15 or 16, DYS442 = 11, > DYS464d = > 15, 458 = 16, and t o some extent DYS463 = 20 > > Overall, this population looks relatively old back to its break up > into > multiple clusters; that’s why I wonder if it was one of the first I1 > arriving populations into more northerly Scandinavia?" > > > I'm Kit 154151 (y-Search MUZGY) Z60+ Z140- L803-, and I think I'm in > this > group although I'm DYS463=21. I've been actively encouraging a > couple from > this bunch to do some other testing, both STR and SNP and wonder what > suggestion/direction you might give? > > My own genealogy research back to c. 1450 at Åland Islands includes > speculation of migration from the Northern Baltic shore (perhaps the > area > now know as Germany) to perhaps from what is now Sweden before 1000 > CE, . > This is surely much to late for any help in better understanding > "the first > arriving populations into northerly Scandinavia." > > I'm biting my nails to a nub waiting for Z73. > > Roy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Another neglected clade within I1xL22 is I1-AS22 DYS385 = 13,16 YCA = 19,22 DYS446 = 12 Basic z series snp tests are needed, and some extensions to 111 markers are needed. Right now there are none of either.

Anyway, it is strange to find M26 on Balkan...I have seen now that member in I2a Project from Bosnia and Herzegovina which was mentioned by Bernie and try to find something about origin of his surname (I have a big database of geneaological data for yugoslav surnames) and find that surname has tradition that they origin from some navy comander from Adriatic sea from 15-16 th century. If that tradition is true than M26 could be explained, because lot of Spaniards, Catalans were operating on Adriatic sea in the middle ages...On the other side, I don't know is there any SNP confirmed M26 of those found on Balkan. Since there is no M423 *(x Isles, Disles, Dinaric) I always hope that some strange haplotype could be one of those. 17. фебруар 2012. 18.36, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> је написао/ла: > Why not M26+? The 22 at 448 is a tad unusual, but that haplogroup at large > has 448=22 sprinkled here and there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: simo > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:25 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 2008 Battaglia paper with interesting I-P37.2 > results > > When I analysed haplotypes from study *Allele frequencies and population > data for 17 Y-chromosome STR > loci in a Serbian population sample from Vojvodina province *there was one > haplotype which according to predictor was I-M26. Its first 12 markers in > FTDNA order was 13,23,16,10,12,12,0,0, 12,14,11,29 with 15 value for DYS437 > and 22 value for DYS 448. I don't know is this really M26 haplotype, anyway > it is not Dinaric or I1, so question is what is it? > > 17. фебруар 2012. 16.49, Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com> је > написао/ла: > > > About I-M26 in the Balkans: > > > > Yesterday an I-M26 Bosnian joined the FTDNA I2a project. His 37 > > markers are a good match with the L160+ subgroup but he doesn't have > > any close matches in the project. In yhrd.org I can see one likely > > M26+ from Central Croatia and one from Novi Sad, Serbia. > > > > Bernie > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear All If you could spare a few minutes of your valuable time – I am seeking your cooperation on a fairly simple task! Volunteer administrators in various projects often visit other publicly viewable project pages at FTDNA to acquire relevant data, especially from the large Haplogroup projects such as I1, and CE Normans etc. which are my main ports of call for the I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+ Project. Currently, I am tracking Z63+, and Z58+ and all of the SNPs downstream of Z58 to show on both a Surname SNP Tree and also SNP Maps, for our members. The country of origin of the Most Distant Ancestor on the paternal side is vital information for these purposes. However, in many instances, this information is not available on the publicly viewable Results and SNP pages. For example – see the I1 Project SNP page here: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ysnp This is a very large page and takes a lot of searching for various SNP results, but even at the top there are many gaps in the *Paternal Ancestor Name* field where not even a surname is viewable. Unfortunately, if someone has tested positive for a SNP that I am personally tracking, and I cannot see a surname or place of origin, then it’s a loss to our project even if the tester is not one of our members yet. However, the people who write in Name, Town, County/State and Country of origin in the *Paternal Ancestor Name* field are helping us all enormously! We cannot even view Country of Origin from the public Results and SNP pages, so the collectors of such information really need your assistance. If your ancestor details need updating, this is very easy for you to do: 1. Log into your personal page at FTDNA 2. Select *My Account* from the top menu bar 3. Select *Most Distant Ancestors* 4. Under *Direct Paternal* select Country of Origin from the drop down list, 5. In the *Name* field, fill in as much info as you can: Name/Birthyear/Town/County/Country ID abbreviation. 6. *Save* Thank you in advance for your cooperation! Kindest regards Julie Frame Falk (Project Administrator) I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+ Project, Frame DNA Project, Frain DNA Project, Bemis DNA Project

On 2/17/2012 12:26 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > What’s going on with the I1 tree at this site? > > A bunch of snps Z61, Z62, Z141 are put in their tree, but I don’t believe FTDNA or anyone else has made them available for public purchase? > What are Z61, Z62, and Z141?

When I analysed haplotypes from study *Allele frequencies and population data for 17 Y-chromosome STR loci in a Serbian population sample from Vojvodina province *there was one haplotype which according to predictor was I-M26. Its first 12 markers in FTDNA order was 13,23,16,10,12,12,0,0, 12,14,11,29 with 15 value for DYS437 and 22 value for DYS 448. I don't know is this really M26 haplotype, anyway it is not Dinaric or I1, so question is what is it? 17. фебруар 2012. 16.49, Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com> је написао/ла: > About I-M26 in the Balkans: > > Yesterday an I-M26 Bosnian joined the FTDNA I2a project. His 37 > markers are a good match with the L160+ subgroup but he doesn't have > any close matches in the project. In yhrd.org I can see one likely > M26+ from Central Croatia and one from Novi Sad, Serbia. > > Bernie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Two more clades of i1xL22 which need z series snps and 68 to 111 marker upgrades. Presently void AS12 DYS456 = 17 or 16 DYS446 = 11 DYS439 = 13 or 14 DYS449 = higher than norm This clade looks Scandinavian No z series snps at all presently AS13 DYS448 = 21 DYS456 = 13 DYS458 = 14 Lots (about 1/2) of DYS19 = 15 and DYS389ii = 29 Looks old Presently I have only a Z58+ Z60- for one person It needs the Z59/Z138 pair of snps

Since there are no public Z73+ yet that I know about one wonders where ISOGG comes up with their stuff? The proposed tree by 1000 Genomes that I have shows Z73 downstream of Z60/Z61. Z73 in the FTDNA catalog seems just around the corner. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Julie Frame Falk Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:38 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z59 Ken As I read it, the new ISOGG tree has Z73 (I1f2a) below Z138 and Z139 (I1f2). Like you, I thought Z73 was below Z60. Regards Julie Frame Falk <<From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Then downstream of z60 are Z140 and Z73. first is in the catalog, and second should be by end of day.>> <<From: Wim Callewaert Z59+ here. Testing Z60 is now the only option I suppose.>> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Then downstream of z60 are Z140 and Z73. first is in the catalog, and second should be by end of day. I see you did Z140. -----Original Message----- From: Wim Callewaert Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:11 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z59 Z59+ here. Testing Z60 is now the only option I suppose. Kit N6262 Y-search: QG86J Wim ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Two I1xL22 clades needing z series snp tests! AS-1313 has the combination of DYS487 = 13 and 13 at DYS607, along with 29 at DYS389ii and 11 at DYS460 AS-10 has the combination of DYS487 = 13 and DYS572 = 10, along with DYS389 = 13,29, DYS446 = 14, and DYS449 = 29/30 Neither clade has any z series snp tests yet. There is better than normal chance they will be Z138+/Z139+ But the more conservative folks could start with the basic introductory z series snps, Z58, Z63 (and maybe Z131) And of course the Scot clade ESc-13 needs some more confirmatory Z138/Z139 tests in order to find its boundary.

What’s going on with the I1 tree at this site? A bunch of snps Z61, Z62, Z141 are put in their tree, but I don’t believe FTDNA or anyone else has made them available for public purchase? So we only have reports of 1000 Genomes that they exist and are where suggested? On other hand Z131 which is in the catalog at FTDNA is not in the tree, nor is DF29 (Z131+ has not been found publically). 1000 Genomes reports existence of these snps just as they do the previous mentioned ones. What’s the consistent rule, IF ANY, governing the ISOGG tree construction?

About I-M26 in the Balkans: Yesterday an I-M26 Bosnian joined the FTDNA I2a project. His 37 markers are a good match with the L160+ subgroup but he doesn't have any close matches in the project. In yhrd.org I can see one likely M26+ from Central Croatia and one from Novi Sad, Serbia. Bernie

Why not M26+? The 22 at 448 is a tad unusual, but that haplogroup at large has 448=22 sprinkled here and there. -----Original Message----- From: simo Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 2008 Battaglia paper with interesting I-P37.2 results When I analysed haplotypes from study *Allele frequencies and population data for 17 Y-chromosome STR loci in a Serbian population sample from Vojvodina province *there was one haplotype which according to predictor was I-M26. Its first 12 markers in FTDNA order was 13,23,16,10,12,12,0,0, 12,14,11,29 with 15 value for DYS437 and 22 value for DYS 448. I don't know is this really M26 haplotype, anyway it is not Dinaric or I1, so question is what is it? 17. фебруар 2012. 16.49, Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com> је написао/ла: > About I-M26 in the Balkans: > > Yesterday an I-M26 Bosnian joined the FTDNA I2a project. His 37 > markers are a good match with the L160+ subgroup but he doesn't have > any close matches in the project. In yhrd.org I can see one likely > M26+ from Central Croatia and one from Novi Sad, Serbia. > > Bernie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Anyone yet found Z58+ but Z59- ? I don’t have such a person. Has anyone split Z138 and Z139 yet? I don’t have one, but these markers have been tested much less. Remember: there is a decent chance I1-AS10 and I1-AS1313 may be Z138+ and/or Z139+ But we have no results or even orders yet from these clades! Ken

I’m sure DYS487=13 I1xL22 will not all be Z138+ and Z139+. But one clade of 487 = 13, I1-ESc-13, probably is. I have described i1-ESc-13 extensively last night and earlier today. I noticed the other two I1xL22 with 13 at 487 ---- AS10 and AS1313 --- don’t seem to have any of the new Z series snp tests. I’d recommend Z138 and/or Z139 for members of these two clades as well as I1-ESc-13 clade as earlier discussed. Ken

In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes of I1xL22. Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to belong to clade. I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 possibles. Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ Markers 1-37 DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 DYS449 = 30 norm 28 DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 DYS456 = 15 norm 14 Markers 38-67 Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 Markers 68-111 DYS710 = 31 DYS552 = 26 norm 25 DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 DYS497 = 15 norm 14 If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to 67 or 111 markers. Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than of AS2 clade. So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on whether one is of this clade or not. Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps lowland, east coast Scotland Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been found! Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence that haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Dora, Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, I match no one with the McKenzie surname. My closest match is someone with the Phillips surname. We and several others have our own little Limbo cluster. :) Linda -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:14 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] McKenzie, Kit# 65267, L369 test results Linda, that's it for now. They're currently running a Walk the Y on an Isles-Scottish person. I take it you're no relation to the Isles-Scottish McKinstry's, LOL! Allegedly we share your burning volcano coat of arms. ;) Dora --- On Wed, 2/15/12, Linda Threadgill <llt1948@gmail.com> wrote: From: Linda Threadgill <llt1948@gmail.com> Subject: [yDNAhgI] McKenzie, Kit# 65267, L369 test results To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 2:54 PM Ken, The results for the L369 SNP test for McKenzie are in. The results were positive for L369. Prior to doing this test the FTDNA haplogroup designation was I2b1a1. Has the test results changed this? Also, is there another test that should be ordered? Linda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes of I1xL22 which are of personal interest because I believe my Norwegian haplotype is tied to this clade (how, historically I have no clue yet!). Here’s the identifying strs or inferred founding values: Markers 1-37 DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 DYS449 = 30 norm 28 DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 DYS456 = 15 norm 14 Markers 38-67 DYS487 = 13 norm 12 Markers 68-111 DYS710 = 31 DYS552 = 26 norm 25 DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 DYS497 = 15 norm 14 If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to 67 or 111 markers. The core of this clade has been found Z138+ Z139+ These are new snps which carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than of AS2 clade. Being Z138+ and Z139+ sets one off from the bulk of I1xL22. So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on whether of this clade or not. Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps lowland, east coast Scotland (other than my haplotype and that of my 6th cousin). Ken

I don't know what's the likelihood, but I think that Aaron Torres, of the I2b1 project, has two L126+ people, one Isles Scottish and one something else, currently doing the Walk the Y. The last I heard, several weeks ago, he had raised the funds and had the people recruited to do the test. All Isles-Scottish people (and their inlaws) are waiting with baited breath. Dora On 2/15/2012 3:35 PM, Rossa Mullen wrote: > I know it's pretty speculative but with the walk the y tests happening for a few M223 people what's the possibility of something significant being found for M284, L126? Given they're fairly young if something does turn I suppose it might be specific to certain surnames. > >