Terry, Kit #96388 is not on ysearch but it is on the Ards Peninsua site under the name Curran. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ardsdnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults I will ask the owner of kit #96388 if he will join ysearch. I am in charge of kit #15927. Do you recommend more testing? Thanks. Martha Parker On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > Martha, > I can see the results for Kit Number 159727 at > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=159727 > which says that that person is likely to be L233+. > > But for Kit Number 96388, I cannot see him appearing in any of the public > FTDNA projects that I normally look at. > > So, given that his data is not publicly visible that explains why he is not > returned as a close match. > > Note even if he was to be included in the FTDNA I1 Project today, it will > be a while before I fetch that data and incorporate it. > > Terry > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 9:50 AM, MM Parker <mmparker@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Thank you for the test Terry. > > > > I entered in kit #159727 in order to check the close matches for James > > Curran b.1795 in Ballyhalbert. I was surprised that kit #96388 was not > > shown as a close match since both the Currans who took the tests descend > > from James Curran b. 1795. Both were 67 marker tests. > > > > The person for kit #159727 was tested for L233 and the other was not. Is > > this the reason that a match is not shown? > > > > Is the information from this test FTDNA? If not perhaps that is the > reason > > kit #96388 does not show up. > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Martha Parker > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Martha

Thank you for the test Terry. I entered in kit #159727 in order to check the close matches for James Curran b.1795 in Ballyhalbert. I was surprised that kit #96388 was not shown as a close match since both the Currans who took the tests descend from James Curran b. 1795. Both were 67 marker tests. The person for kit #159727 was tested for L233 and the other was not. Is this the reason that a match is not shown? Is the information from this test FTDNA? If not perhaps that is the reason kit #96388 does not show up. Thanks for your help. Martha Parker

Also also from http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=59297 the suggestion to test L338 would be the same. In fact, the prediction is that you would be L338+. The geographic frequency map shown at that link, indicates that Belgium/Netherlands followed by Scotland and then the Czech Republic, are the most frequent locations of ancestral origin claimed by other branch members. So you'd possibly also have one of those places as your own location of ancestral origin. Plenty of exceptions, of course. Terry On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > If the haplotype looks AS1 then most downstream snp is L338, and next most > downstream snp is Z140. > > You could test for them, with higher priority being L338. > > What exactly do you want to prove or confirm? 67 markers are sufficient to > show AS1 unless he is real outlier. > > kit 59297 is basically a perfect example of an AS1 member. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Staats > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:46 AM > To: Y-DNA Haplogroup I > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please > > FTDNA Kit# 59297 (Y67) is I1 and grouped with AS1. He is interested in > ordering a test to try and find his most downstream SNP. > His current SNP results are: P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ P37.2- > M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L211- > So that rules him out of I1a, I1b and I1e while leaving I1c, I1d and I1f as > possibilities. Are there any of the 67 STRs that can be examined to help > narrow down which SNP he should test next? If not, what would be the best > guess? > > Cheers! > > Sean > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, Ken! I'll let him know your recommendation that an upgrade to 111 STRs would serve him best. Sean On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Considering that AS1 L338+ is only about 2000 years back to its MRCA, that > reduces probability of finding a new snp to divide AS1 as there are fewer > generations in his tree branch within that 2000 years. > > Personally, I think there would be more bang for the buck expanding > haplotype to 111 STRs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Staats > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 7:37 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please > > Thanks for the information, Ken and Terry. I'll pass this information on > to him as he'll greatly appreciate it - particularly since he already knows > that his oldest-found ancestor was born in the Belgium/Netherlands area in > the 1500s. He was simply interested to learn about the latest I1 > haplogroup branches and where he falls in. I'll let him know he has a very > high probability of being L338+ and may want to wait for further downstream > SNPs to be discovered. Based on his background, do you think there would > be any benefit to I1 research for him to buy a WTY test? > > Sean > > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Also also from > > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=59297 > > the suggestion to test L338 would be the same. In fact, the prediction is > > that you would be L338+. > > > > The geographic frequency map shown at that link, indicates that > > Belgium/Netherlands followed by Scotland and then the Czech Republic, are > > the most frequent locations of ancestral origin claimed by other branch > > members. So you'd possibly also have one of those places as your own > > location of ancestral origin. Plenty of exceptions, of course. > > > > Terry > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > > <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > > > If the haplotype looks AS1 then most downstream snp is L338, and next > > most > > > downstream snp is Z140. > > > > > > You could test for them, with higher priority being L338. > > > > > > What exactly do you want to prove or confirm? 67 markers are > sufficient > > to > > > show AS1 unless he is real outlier. > > > > > > kit 59297 is basically a perfect example of an AS1 member. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Sean Staats > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:46 AM > > > To: Y-DNA Haplogroup I > > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please > > > > > > FTDNA Kit# 59297 (Y67) is I1 and grouped with AS1. He is interested in > > > ordering a test to try and find his most downstream SNP. > > > His current SNP results are: P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ > > P37.2- > > > M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L211- > > > So that rules him out of I1a, I1b and I1e while leaving I1c, I1d and > I1f > > as > > > possibilities. Are there any of the 67 STRs that can be examined to > > > help > > > narrow down which SNP he should test next? If not, what would be the > > best > > > guess? > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for the information, Ken and Terry. I'll pass this information on to him as he'll greatly appreciate it - particularly since he already knows that his oldest-found ancestor was born in the Belgium/Netherlands area in the 1500s. He was simply interested to learn about the latest I1 haplogroup branches and where he falls in. I'll let him know he has a very high probability of being L338+ and may want to wait for further downstream SNPs to be discovered. Based on his background, do you think there would be any benefit to I1 research for him to buy a WTY test? Sean On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > Also also from > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=59297 > the suggestion to test L338 would be the same. In fact, the prediction is > that you would be L338+. > > The geographic frequency map shown at that link, indicates that > Belgium/Netherlands followed by Scotland and then the Czech Republic, are > the most frequent locations of ancestral origin claimed by other branch > members. So you'd possibly also have one of those places as your own > location of ancestral origin. Plenty of exceptions, of course. > > Terry > > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > If the haplotype looks AS1 then most downstream snp is L338, and next > most > > downstream snp is Z140. > > > > You could test for them, with higher priority being L338. > > > > What exactly do you want to prove or confirm? 67 markers are sufficient > to > > show AS1 unless he is real outlier. > > > > kit 59297 is basically a perfect example of an AS1 member. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sean Staats > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:46 AM > > To: Y-DNA Haplogroup I > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please > > > > FTDNA Kit# 59297 (Y67) is I1 and grouped with AS1. He is interested in > > ordering a test to try and find his most downstream SNP. > > His current SNP results are: P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ > P37.2- > > M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L211- > > So that rules him out of I1a, I1b and I1e while leaving I1c, I1d and I1f > as > > possibilities. Are there any of the 67 STRs that can be examined to help > > narrow down which SNP he should test next? If not, what would be the > best > > guess? > > > > Cheers! > > > > Sean > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Considering that AS1 L338+ is only about 2000 years back to its MRCA, that reduces probability of finding a new snp to divide AS1 as there are fewer generations in his tree branch within that 2000 years. Personally, I think there would be more bang for the buck expanding haplotype to 111 STRs. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Staats Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 7:37 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please Thanks for the information, Ken and Terry. I'll pass this information on to him as he'll greatly appreciate it - particularly since he already knows that his oldest-found ancestor was born in the Belgium/Netherlands area in the 1500s. He was simply interested to learn about the latest I1 haplogroup branches and where he falls in. I'll let him know he has a very high probability of being L338+ and may want to wait for further downstream SNPs to be discovered. Based on his background, do you think there would be any benefit to I1 research for him to buy a WTY test? Sean On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > Also also from > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=59297 > the suggestion to test L338 would be the same. In fact, the prediction is > that you would be L338+. > > The geographic frequency map shown at that link, indicates that > Belgium/Netherlands followed by Scotland and then the Czech Republic, are > the most frequent locations of ancestral origin claimed by other branch > members. So you'd possibly also have one of those places as your own > location of ancestral origin. Plenty of exceptions, of course. > > Terry > > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > If the haplotype looks AS1 then most downstream snp is L338, and next > most > > downstream snp is Z140. > > > > You could test for them, with higher priority being L338. > > > > What exactly do you want to prove or confirm? 67 markers are sufficient > to > > show AS1 unless he is real outlier. > > > > kit 59297 is basically a perfect example of an AS1 member. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sean Staats > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:46 AM > > To: Y-DNA Haplogroup I > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please > > > > FTDNA Kit# 59297 (Y67) is I1 and grouped with AS1. He is interested in > > ordering a test to try and find his most downstream SNP. > > His current SNP results are: P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ > P37.2- > > M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L211- > > So that rules him out of I1a, I1b and I1e while leaving I1c, I1d and I1f > as > > possibilities. Are there any of the 67 STRs that can be examined to > > help > > narrow down which SNP he should test next? If not, what would be the > best > > guess? > > > > Cheers! > > > > Sean > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't know why ftdna would recommend L211. You have a very outlying I1 generic haplotype. Z59 should not be measured unless you first confirm Z58. I'd do Z58 and Z63 and Z131. They are the basic snps for dividing I1* which is what you are at the moment. I am not sure I have seen such an outlier within I1. Good luck and keep me posted on your results. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Bill Hawk Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 5:46 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] What New SNP's to test? Ken etal, I see by Terry’s STR branch code routine that I ought to test for Z58 and Z59. Is it best to test for both at once or one at a time? Also FTDNA says L211 is recommended. Is that a worthwhile move for me? Bill Hawk #117095 Ysearch J65K4 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If the haplotype looks AS1 then most downstream snp is L338, and next most downstream snp is Z140. You could test for them, with higher priority being L338. What exactly do you want to prove or confirm? 67 markers are sufficient to show AS1 unless he is real outlier. kit 59297 is basically a perfect example of an AS1 member. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Staats Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:46 AM To: Y-DNA Haplogroup I Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1 Test Recommendation Please FTDNA Kit# 59297 (Y67) is I1 and grouped with AS1. He is interested in ordering a test to try and find his most downstream SNP. His current SNP results are: P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ P37.2- M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L211- So that rules him out of I1a, I1b and I1e while leaving I1c, I1d and I1f as possibilities. Are there any of the 67 STRs that can be examined to help narrow down which SNP he should test next? If not, what would be the best guess? Cheers! Sean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

AS13 does not look highly concentrated geographically. Germany, Sweden, and British Isles are well represented. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Owston Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 6:47 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] AS13 I had one of my NPE relatives' results get returned today and Cullen's predictor puts him as an AS13. On your best estimates, where did this subclade originate. Thanks, Jim Jim Owston James M. Owston, EdD Dean of Distance Learning Associate Professor: Communication & Media Mountain State University PO Box 9003 Beckley, WV 25802-9003 304.929.1356 800.766.6167, ext. 1356 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have pretty much the same question as ISOGG is placing Z73 as a downstream of z138/z139 (which I tested positive for) but other groups are placing it as a downstream of z60. Any inputs ? My kit number: 186577 Thanks, Tony On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Why would you want to do Z58 if positive for Z`138 and Z139? > Makes very minimal sense to me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:07 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z73 SNP test > > Good morning > Could someone advise if the Z73 snp test is one that I should take now that > it is available at FTDNA. > It was also suggested in a recent project group email that I backtrack and > do Z58,would that be necessary ? > Thanks > Ray Jenkins > I1-AS@ Z138+/Z139+ > Ysearch AETEN > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 7411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: BUYHOMEINFLORIDA@GMAIL.COM Brasil SP: (11)3958-4311 Brasil RJ : (21)3958-1329

There seems some tendency for I1 DYS487 = 13 folks to end up Z138+ Z139+. There are exceptions, but this 487 Z138/139 correlation seems to be growing. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bardy Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 2:41 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z73 SNP test I have pretty much the same question as ISOGG is placing Z73 as a downstream of z138/z139 (which I tested positive for) but other groups are placing it as a downstream of z60. Any inputs ? My kit number: 186577 Thanks, Tony On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Why would you want to do Z58 if positive for Z`138 and Z139? > Makes very minimal sense to me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:07 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z73 SNP test > > Good morning > Could someone advise if the Z73 snp test is one that I should take now > that > it is available at FTDNA. > It was also suggested in a recent project group email that I backtrack and > do Z58,would that be necessary ? > Thanks > Ray Jenkins > I1-AS@ Z138+/Z139+ > Ysearch AETEN > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 7411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: BUYHOMEINFLORIDA@GMAIL.COM Brasil SP: (11)3958-4311 Brasil RJ : (21)3958-1329 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It would be best if ISOGG explained why they place Z73 downstream of Z138/Z139. The tree put out by 1000 Genomes organization which discovered these Z series snps place Z73 downstream of Z60 or maybe Z60/Z61. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bardy Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 2:41 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z73 SNP test I have pretty much the same question as ISOGG is placing Z73 as a downstream of z138/z139 (which I tested positive for) but other groups are placing it as a downstream of z60. Any inputs ? My kit number: 186577 Thanks, Tony On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Why would you want to do Z58 if positive for Z`138 and Z139? > Makes very minimal sense to me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:07 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z73 SNP test > > Good morning > Could someone advise if the Z73 snp test is one that I should take now > that > it is available at FTDNA. > It was also suggested in a recent project group email that I backtrack and > do Z58,would that be necessary ? > Thanks > Ray Jenkins > I1-AS@ Z138+/Z139+ > Ysearch AETEN > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 7411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: BUYHOMEINFLORIDA@GMAIL.COM Brasil SP: (11)3958-4311 Brasil RJ : (21)3958-1329 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

ultimate generics are special, too but you will be generic for only so long; you have many snps downstream to be found. -----Original Message----- From: K Ruud Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 5:22 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] My Z-SNP results My latest as expected, the ultimate I1* generic: M253+ *Z63- Z59- Z58- Z131-* P259- P109- M72- M227- M21- L22- The only thing positive is that from here on it will be rather cheap - no more SNPs to test in any direction. Best regards Ken 2012/2/11 Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > Actually, the Z58- Z63- Z131- I1xL22 population is quite large. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:41 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] My Z-SNP results > > My brother and his Y DNA clone have tested everything and they're negative > for everything. > > Dora > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm not sure what you are asking? Both Maxwell and Keaveney 113806 ought to be L161+ And then all that remains are more STR markers --- the 68-111 set. They will narrow somewhat the statistical uncertainty in the tmrca between the two. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Lplantagenet Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 1:25 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Question for Ken RE: SNPs for I2a2 Ken, Do you have any SNP recommendations for either of these two men who are in my Kevan project? Kit 42164 ordered L161 before he joined the project--results are expected tomorrow. Kit 113806 has tested positive for L161. He matches Maxwell 33/37 but differs on 8 markers at the 67 marker level. #42164 (Maxwell)-- P38+ P37.2+ P19+ M423+ M258+ M170+ P41.2- P30- M72- M307- M26- M253- M227- M223- M21- M161- #113806 (Keaveney)--P37.2+ M423+ L178+ L161+ P41.2- M26- L61 http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Kevan/?iframe=ydnacolor We've offered a free 37 marker test to another Kevan from the same line already tested, but haven't yet received a reply. Lindsey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For now Z63+ is end of the snp road. -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Phethean Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:23 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Further tests for I1-ASgenerics Ken and all, Your hunch paid off - results in today - I am Z63+ Any further suggestions now? Thanks! Stuart KIt No: B1292 YSearch: VPCVT On 14 February 2012 20:13, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > You look generic to me. But I sense a similarity to another generic who > has > tested Z63+. You could save yourself a few bucks by testing that marker > first, and only if negative go to the Z58. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart Phethean > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:25 AM > To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Further tests for I1-ASgenerics > > I have recently transferred in to FTDNA my original Relative > Genetics/Ancestry test and upgraded from 37 to 67 markers. > > I am I1-AS (generic) according to the data, with a recommendation to order > Z58 and Z63. Would you advise that I go ahead and do this, or are there > any > other additional tests that I should consider? Any suggestions welcomed! > > > KIt No: B1292 > YSearch: VPCVT > > > > Regards, > > Stuart > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17235229

Nothing is "necessary." You would backfill only if you wish to add to the validity of the I1 haplotree and the expense is not a concern. Or maybe you're just curious about yourself - "I don't care what everyone else's results are, I want to know what *my* results are!" Not right or wrong. Just a personal preference. http://dgmweb.net/DNA/General/SNP-maxout-HgI1.html#Z138 Diana > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 10:24 PM > > Why would you want to do Z58 if positive for Z`138 and Z139? > Makes very minimal sense to me.

Bernie, Although the reconstructed STR tree is not the same as the genealogical tree, it is not that far off in simulations I have tried. Early on, I created some synthetic genealogies over a few hundred generations with a Poisson distribution for the number of sons born to each father (so that various lines would go extinct) and with various permutations of population growth models that I thought were realistic. >From those synthetic genealogies, I then simulation how 67-markers, with assumed mutation rates would propagate through to the present. Then I tried the hierarchical clustering algorithm to reconstruct the STR tree from that simulated data. I came to the conclusion that I could acceptably approximate the synthetic genealogy albeit with some annoying convergence in some places. But visually the STR tree often looked remarkably similar to the synthetic genealogical tree after one removed the extinct lines and if one looked at the lines were convergence wasn't an issue (which it often wasn't too bad after a few hundred generations). Probably should write that up one day. (I am doing all of this work in my spare time as a hobby.) So the STR Tree for I1 and I2 that I give in the PDF file, I have a feeling is not an unreasonable representation of the actual genealogy. Can't prove that in the actual case at hand, but the simulations do suggest that in principle with the noted caveats. (After more than many hundreds of generations, and with the mutation rates I assumed, things may start to get worse, but I couldn't simulate that due to computer runtime constraints). Also note that SNP alleles should exactly follow the actual genealogy, because they are usually unique events, and in the reconstructed STR tree I did for I1 and I2, the SNP locations are mostly (but not always) grouped in non-overlapping areas. Terry On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com>wrote: > Terry, > > Your clustering method may work well, but as you say some branches may > converge. So what's the advantage of presenting your tree when we know > its basic structure doesn't represent history? What useful information > do your different branches give us? Why not keep your tree and branch > codes in the background (let someone click to it if he wants) and just > present the results (matches in someone's cluster, maps, recommended > SNPs)? > Or am I missing something useful about the tree? > > Bernie > > Terry tdrobb@gmail.com wrote: > Finally, don't expect total accuracy. The STR 67-marker Tree that is > constructed, can only ever be an approximation to the true genealogical > tree. Mistakes necessarily happen due to chance convergence of STR results. > All we get to see are the leaves (people) at the end of the branches, and > if we are lucky a bunch ("cluster") of leaves will all come from the same > branch. But sometimes two distinct branches will have their leaves > intertwined ("convergence"), which is the main complication to be aware of > when reading the results. Some spurious results are to be expected. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks all for the mostly positive feedback and comments. Rather than reply to individual posts, I'd like to respond in this single post. 1) Data coverage At present only 67-marker results from the major I1 and I2 projects at FTDNA are used. So 37-marker-only results are not included, nor any results that have a null value recorded for any of the 67 markers. Data used was what I captured as of mid-February 2012. I will periodically update it though. Also, I have missed out many smaller surname-only projects, but may include them when I can. 2) Close Matches / TMRCA The close matches are determined by closeness (at the right end) of the branch codes. A maximum of 20 matches is returned. The TMRCA is for the common ancestor of the kit number that was entered and it's very closest match. That very closest match will be next to (above or below) the bold kit number in the list. If it is an exact 67-marker match, then the TMRCA is reported as "within 200 years". You may have other close matches that are not in the database I have captured. 3) Geographic Frequency Maps These maps are just a factual representation of the frequency of occurrence of the self-reported place of ancestral origin, that is recorded in the various FTDNA projects, for members of the given "branch". Typically, the most-distant male-line ancestor reported by people lived anywhere from say 100 to 300 or more years ago. So the geographic maps can be pretended to be for around 200 years ago on average. Modern country boundaries are used to make plotting easier for me. 4) SNP Suggestions Raw counts of the SNP alleles (either positive or negative) are given in the link to the PDF file. But on the output page, just some likely allele values, for the given branch, are shown in red. They are not meant to be 100% certain. Each line and arrow in the pathway would in principle have a different probability. For simplicity, just a few with the highest probability are the ones shown in red. 5) Decision Tree Method The Decision Tree method is an approximation to the full Branch Code tree method. In particular, I1-BBA is roughly the same as I1.110*, and I1-AAA is like I1.000*. Some of the labels are at slightly different levels though - for example, I1-AABB is like I1.011*. 6) Examples to try. http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=H1154 -> I2.100* L369+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=133132 -> I2.0110* L39+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=27753 -> I2.01000* L161.1+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=URMN8 -> I1.111* L22+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=6392 -> I1.110* L22+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=41180 -> I1.101* Z63+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=70336 -> I1.101* Z63+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=23944 -> I1.100* L258+ (Finland) http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=29243 -> I1.011* L338+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=90967 -> I1.011* L338+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=106327 -> I1.010* Z139+,Z138+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=67129 -> I1.001* Z803+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=ZUYPF -> I1.000111* Z140+ http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=N58041 -> I1.00001* Z58+ Finally, don't expect total accuracy. The STR 67-marker Tree that is constructed, can only ever be an approximation to the true genealogical tree. Mistakes necessarily happen due to chance convergence of STR results. All we get to see are the leaves (people) at the end of the branches, and if we are lucky a bunch ("cluster") of leaves will all come from the same branch. But sometimes two distinct branches will have their leaves intertwined ("convergence"), which is the main complication to be aware of when reading the results. Some spurious results are to be expected. Terry

A very interesting and useful tool, from what I have used it.   Aaron http://aaronjhill.wordpress.com/ ________________________________ From: Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi Terry