Hello, Haakon We got positive results for Z186 all over the map: Cont2a, Cont1, Cont2b (P95-)... Still no results from Cont1a and Cont1b (both pending). We do need more Z186 orders and results before we can safely conclude where it sits on the tree and how it relates to L801 and other SNP's. It would also help if volunteers from subgroups who tested negative for L801 would order Z186 - one volunteer from each subgroup will suffice: I2b1-X, I2b1-XX, Roots, Cont2c (L623, L147.4+), Isles (M284+). Finally, a volunteer from Cont2b (L801+, P95+) would also be appreciated. We already got a volunteer from Cont3a (P78+, no results yet). Meanwhile, we got two negative results for Z78 and Z79 (one Cont2a individual was negative for both but positive for Z186, kit# 76513). So at the moment all of the individuals who tested positive for Z186 should give Z78 and Z79 a try. We don't have enough information to know where Z78 and Z79 will fall. Z78, which is supposedly upstream from Z79, may equate to a larger group or may belong within such larger groups as Cont1 or Cont2a. More testing is also needed. Additionally, we got our first L484 results today (kit numbers 54860, 195171 and 174263, all positive). We are working to determine who within Cont3a (P78+) should test for this SNP. Thank you, Aaron Torres From: Haakon Styri <styri@online.no> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Attention Continentals: SNP Z186 now available on FTDNA! Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 12:57:52 +0100 (MET) References: <1330448832.3771.YahooMailClassic@web113317.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8084664.1237.1331380090574.JavaMail.adm-moff@moffice2.nsc.no> In-Reply-To: <8084664.1237.1331380090574.JavaMail.adm-moff@moffice2.nsc.no> Typo alert :-( Kit 76513 tested Z78 and Z79 as well, and that result is Z186+, Z78-, Z79- H.Styri > From: Haakon Styri [styri@online.no] > Sent: 2012-03-10 12:48:10 MET > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Attention Continentals: SNP Z186 now available on FT DNA! > > First Z186 test results are in: 14 out of 14 positive, all from the L801+ group. > > Kit 76513 tested Z78 and Z79 as well, and that result is Z168+, Z78-, Z79- > > I think there are more tests still pending in the first batch (523), but more testing is obviously needed. > > H.Styri > > > > From: Aaron Salles Torres [sallfertorr@yahoo.com] > > Sent: 2012-02-28 18:07:12 MET > > To: ISOGG@yahoogroups.com, genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Attention Continentals: SNP Z186 now available on FT DNA! > > > > Dear I2b1/M223 Project Members, > > > > It's been a long wait but the new M223 Z series SNP's are now finally available on FT > > DNA! > > > > If > > you belong to the large Cont group of M223 and/or have previously > > tested positive for L801, please consider ordering SNP Z186. >

SNPs are mainly useful for dividing populations, although sometimes they can to a degree unite haplotypes which otherwise show little affinity for each other. Today we had a flood of L801+ who all tested Z186 and all were derived for this new snp as well. I have not yet plowed through the order records, but I hope there are some L801- who are testing for Z186. No such test results were reported out today. There are many different clades of M223+ L801- Continental. There is no necessary reason the borderline between L801 derived and ancestrals will coincide with the borderline between Z186 derived and ancestral --- although they could. So rather than do tests on new snps in a bandwagon manner, the new snp should be investigated from “both sides” of the divide --- so to speak. If you are in an odd clade or cluster of M223+ Continental it will be more informative for us if you test for Z186

Jürgen, You are absolutely correct! (And it's very good to find someone so knowledgeable about Iberian linguistics and toponymy). Still, there is a complicating factor - as always. The Suebi who remained stationed in Northwestern France seem to have been assimilated by the Normans later, who were a very heterogeneous group. Coincidentally, when the Normans invaded Iberia they seem to have concentrated around the very area inhabited by the Suebi (Northern Portugal and Galicia). When looking at Iberian I1 today, we clearly find a hotspot in that area. Furthermore, we find two groups - those who seem to have no close matches outside of Iberia and those who have matches with Northwestern Europeans (French, German, British, Dutch, etc...). One explanation is that the group with no close matches outside of Iberia were stationed there earlier, during the time of the Suebi. The second group may have come with the Normans. The geographic proximity of these lines, then the fact that they mixed when colonizing the Americas makes things more difficult to comprehend - Aaron brought up the case of Portuguese migration to Mexico and I've seen evidence of the same in Puerto Rico. It will be interesting when more Iberian I1 individuals test for the Z SNP's, so we can try to correlate the Z58 x Z63 results with the historical evidence we have. Aaron Torres http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I1Iberico/default.aspx?section=yresults [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Friday, March 9, 2012 7:37 PM From: "Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga" <familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com And it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland and western Austria. Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than the rest of Iberia!

If a snp is shown, you can assume + only downstream (toward the present) of it And placement is unknown to anywhere on the branch segment it sits. -----Original Message----- From: Peter and Connie Bradish Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 9:22 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] L22+ flowchart I have created a flowchart for L22+ in I1 according to K Nordtvedt 1 February 2012. I would appreciate someone looking over the flow chart and seeing if I have correctly interpreted Nordtvedt's data. I am assuming that the SNPs used are either + or -. If a SNP is listed as L22 and you follow that line, it means L22+. All others must be L22- if not on the L22+ line. Yes? https://picasaweb.google.com/106643440573403924030/DNA#slideshow/5718296619547098418 Thank you. Connie Bradish ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

These results have been recently received by the "I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+ Project" ( http://bit.ly/I1Z58andI1Z63 ). Now it's necessary to establish whether L211 is also downstream from Z139 (Z138 and Z139 are supposedly phyloequivalent). Aaron Torres

You can already see some hits in Terry's breakdown into Iberia from BA* http://www.goggo.com/terry/HaplogroupI1/y-Haplogroup_I1_-_STR_Cluster_Tree_with_Geographic_Origin.pdf   And some migrations in our kit...for a generic I1 AAA http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=N49922   My I1 launch into the new world came from Portugual, however there are hits in Norway and Poland.  One branch higher and we have hits in England as well.  (England and Portugual have the longest nation to nation alliance in recorded history).   If the closest match is from to "Kit/ID N49922 has a TMRCA from 200 to 400 years ago." And I have a record of leaving Portugual to Mexico around the same time, then the hits outside of Portugual are anomalous or have a more recent migration to Portugual in order to have hits in those areas like Poland and Norway and be within 200-400 years...right?   Anyone is welcome to take a crack!   Aaron   ________________________________ From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de; y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) < Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than the rest of Iberia!> Yes, you are right that in this North-Western corner of Galicia the share of I1 is a little higher. This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. So Suebi could have a significant share of I1. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:37 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) The Alans were/are an Iranian people, still living currently in in their Alanian homeland = Ossetia in the Northern Caucasian area. But re: Iberia, also the Elbe Germanic tribe of the Suebi, or rather the Quadi, along with the Vandals and the Alans immigrated Iberia in 409 AD and settled in the northwestern part, in the Galician and Portuguese mountains, soon expanding to the south to rule the entire western half of the Iberian peninsula, still living pretty independent and undisturbed in their Galician mountaneous homelands over centuries in spite of being defeated by the Visigoths nearly 200 years later in 585 AD. So the Galician and Portuguese languages contain a lot of Germanic words which Castilian Spanish, influenced at a certain rate by the Gothic language, does not know. And it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland and western Austria. Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than the rest of Iberia! Btw, the long-lasting memory of people is amazing: In the central, western and northwestern Spanish population still today, 1500 years later, it is very common to call their neighbors in Galicia and northern Portugal neither "Galicians" nor "Portuguese" but "los suevos" (the Suebi) ... Best regards. Jürgen -------- Original Message  -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Freitag, 9. März 2012 23:34:28 > <  Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal or Alan?> In North Africa where > Vandals finally landed after their walk through Europe we have no I1s. > In Spain and Southern France where finally lived Visigoths share of I1 > seems to be very low. I think that both Visigoths and Vandals were > rather R1b. In Southern Scandinavia where they lived before the walk > through Europe R1b has still a very significant share. > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski > > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dora > Smith > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:09 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 > > How old would this group likely be?    Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal > or Alan?  I think that's who would have taken I1 to Spain.  I'm not > actually sure the Vandals and Alans were Germanic; I think they might > have been steppe people; Sarmatians or Scythians, living farther south. > > Dora ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4860 - Release Date: 03/09/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Z139+ just received results. Tony Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ II Skyrocket™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone. -------- Original message -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1xL22 tests --- Z62, Z141, Z73, DF29 From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com CC: The people who classify you seem to use Z139 as brief name for a subhaplogroup designation.  You are actually Z138+ according to my records, and they are presuming Z138 and Z139 are phyloequivalent. Your Z138+ raises the interesting question I mentioned a week or two ago. Not only is the 487 = 13 clade i1-ESc-13 turning out Z138+ Z139+, but it seems that much or most of the broader population of 487 = 13 within I1xL22 will turn out to be Z138+/Z139+.  That's something I am keeping my eye on in any event. I don't believe you are part of I1-ESc-13, however.  It is only about 2000 years old, allowing lots of upstream branch length for others to branch off. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bardy Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 8:23 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1xL22 tests --- Z62, Z141, Z73, DF29 I am not really sure if I'm in this clade (ESc) as I am classified as z139+ (even though my z139 results are pending from FTDNA). If you can shed any light here I would appreciate. Kit number 186577 (I know that my dys487 is 13 but there is another 13 result in AS2 as well) Thanks, Tony On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > All quiet on the 138/139 front, except I'd love to see more I1-ESc test > for > those snps > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Bardy > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:19 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1xL22 tests --- Z62, Z141, Z73, DF29 > > No new developments for z138/139 right? > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > Are you Z60+ Z140-? > > Then Z73 test is for you. > > Z62 test is for you, too. > > Z141 is also an interesting test to do. > > > > Are you Z140+, then Z141 test could be of interest to you. > > > > Are you Z58- and Z63-?  Then DF29 should be of definite interest for you > > to test? > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Terry ~ I am Z60+. I had a hunch I'd be Z73 derived in spite the ISOGG I1 tree. I was relying on a I1 tree diagram done by the Russian (screen name Pastor_Shag - I'll simple refer to him here as PS). I have referred to PS earlier. I have no sense about this stuff myself, other than intuition(often wrong) and the work you, Ken, and many others have generously shared. PS's proposed SNP chart was posted many weeks ago on another forum. That forum is currently unavailable. While I can't share the chart with you, he did have Z73 downstream of Z60. My own SNP chart is based on his work which you can see here: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1zY7StsPYK7y0d8UzDXRDYfyeZIuaRyurSrNnIM5fOpM/edit Here's a link to his SNP map for his collection of guys reporting Z60+: http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/1154/ In addition, PS maintains this chart, I1 new SNPs" at google docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag4TAbUs4_O2dDNLUHpoWWo2VEw4cHBTVUgxVURTQXc#gid=0 What I like about the "I1 new SNPs" chart is one can easily see the progress of who has tested what SNP and what SNP an individual might wish to test for. Best, Roy Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com

FTDNA reports me as Z73+ and (as expected) Z382-. Kit 154151, Y-Search MUZGY. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com

My Z73 and L573 SNP results are in: Z73- L573- Vic Jensen FTDNA Kit N29579 YSEARCH DM35M

The Alans were/are an Iranian people, still living currently in in their Alanian homeland = Ossetia in the Northern Caucasian area. But re: Iberia, also the Elbe Germanic tribe of the Suebi, or rather the Quadi, along with the Vandals and the Alans immigrated Iberia in 409 AD and settled in the northwestern part, in the Galician and Portuguese mountains, soon expanding to the south to rule the entire western half of the Iberian peninsula, still living pretty independent and undisturbed in their Galician mountaneous homelands over centuries in spite of being defeated by the Visigoths nearly 200 years later in 585 AD. So the Galician and Portuguese languages contain a lot of Germanic words which Castilian Spanish, influenced at a certain rate by the Gothic language, does not know. And it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland and western Austria. Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than the rest of Iberia! Btw, the long-lasting memory of people is amazing: In the central, western and northwestern Spanish population still today, 1500 years later, it is very common to call their neighbors in Galicia and northern Portugal neither "Galicians" nor "Portuguese" but "los suevos" (the Suebi) ... Best regards. Jürgen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Freitag, 9. März 2012 23:34:28 > < Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal or Alan?> > In North Africa where Vandals finally landed after their walk through Europe > we have no I1s. In Spain and Southern France where finally lived Visigoths > share of I1 seems to be very low. I think that both Visigoths and Vandals > were rather R1b. In Southern Scandinavia where they lived before the walk > through Europe R1b has still a very significant share. > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski > > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:09 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 > > How old would this group likely be? Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal > or Alan? I think that's who would have taken I1 to Spain. I'm not > actually sure the Vandals and Alans were Germanic; I think they might have > been steppe people; Sarmatians or Scythians, living farther south. > > Dora

John, Not enough data yet for me to include anything about DF29 in the tool. From the limited 1000genomes results that others have posted about for DF29, it looks like it is upstream of both Z58 and Z63. Maybe more results are available now, but that is the last I read. Terry On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 1:04 AM, John M Rhodes <johnmrhodes409@gmail.com>wrote: > Thank you very much, Terry. I'm back in the game. By any chance, does > your tool include DF29 in its bag of possibilities yet? > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > > > John, > > I've just uploaded my latest database to the website. You seem to be > there > > now: > > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=84WK4 > > Not certain why it was missing before. > > > > A keyword search under RHOD also picks you too now. > > > > Terry > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:39 PM, John M Rhodes <johnmrhodes409@gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > Terry. Does your tool work with ysearch number 84WK4 with 67 markers? > I > > > put it into YSearch in 2007 or 2008 and joined I group several months > ago > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Mar 8, 2012, at 9:36 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > This grouping is just, I believe, what I call "I1.000111*". A > > typical... > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

< Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than the rest of Iberia!> Yes, you are right that in this North-Western corner of Galicia the share of I1 is a little higher. This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. So Suebi could have a significant share of I1. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:37 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) The Alans were/are an Iranian people, still living currently in in their Alanian homeland = Ossetia in the Northern Caucasian area. But re: Iberia, also the Elbe Germanic tribe of the Suebi, or rather the Quadi, along with the Vandals and the Alans immigrated Iberia in 409 AD and settled in the northwestern part, in the Galician and Portuguese mountains, soon expanding to the south to rule the entire western half of the Iberian peninsula, still living pretty independent and undisturbed in their Galician mountaneous homelands over centuries in spite of being defeated by the Visigoths nearly 200 years later in 585 AD. So the Galician and Portuguese languages contain a lot of Germanic words which Castilian Spanish, influenced at a certain rate by the Gothic language, does not know. And it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland and western Austria. Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than the rest of Iberia! Btw, the long-lasting memory of people is amazing: In the central, western and northwestern Spanish population still today, 1500 years later, it is very common to call their neighbors in Galicia and northern Portugal neither "Galicians" nor "Portuguese" but "los suevos" (the Suebi) ... Best regards. Jürgen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Freitag, 9. März 2012 23:34:28 > < Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal or Alan?> In North Africa where > Vandals finally landed after their walk through Europe we have no I1s. > In Spain and Southern France where finally lived Visigoths share of I1 > seems to be very low. I think that both Visigoths and Vandals were > rather R1b. In Southern Scandinavia where they lived before the walk > through Europe R1b has still a very significant share. > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski > > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dora > Smith > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:09 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 > > How old would this group likely be? Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal > or Alan? I think that's who would have taken I1 to Spain. I'm not > actually sure the Vandals and Alans were Germanic; I think they might > have been steppe people; Sarmatians or Scythians, living farther south. > > Dora ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4860 - Release Date: 03/09/12

Are the Z131+ DYS values very different from the others ? Or are they known at all ? 3 out of 15 were presumably Z131+, one would guess that several Z131+ would have had the chance to be found in the FTDNA tested bunch of people. A bit peculiar that not even one has been found. 2012/3/9 Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > We have not seen a Z131+ yet independently of its reported existence by > 1000 > Genomes, so this is all speculation. Indeed this is a mystery, since 1000 > Genomes reports seeing 3 (out of 15?) such Z131+ > > -----Original Message----- > From: K Ruud > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 7:47 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Early Days of I1: DF29 needed > > I wonder if it is clear where the DF29 is located ? > > Is it downstream from M253 and upstream from Z58 and Z63 and not involving > the Z131 ? > > Just wondering if the DF29 and Z131 are running separately downstream from > M253 ? > > > Best regards > Ken Ruud > (Z58-, Z63-, Z131-) > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > 2012/3/9 Lplantagenet <lplantagenet@aol.com> > > > > > I have one AS7E volunteer for DF29 (in the I1 project) , but he may not > > order for several days since he is away from home this weekend. > > > > Lindsey > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I wonder if it is clear where the DF29 is located ? Is it downstream from M253 and upstream from Z58 and Z63 and not involving the Z131 ? Just wondering if the DF29 and Z131 are running separately downstream from M253 ? Best regards Ken Ruud (Z58-, Z63-, Z131-) ---------------------------------------- 2012/3/9 Lplantagenet <lplantagenet@aol.com> > > I have one AS7E volunteer for DF29 (in the I1 project) , but he may not > order for several days since he is away from home this weekend. > > Lindsey > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John, I've just uploaded my latest database to the website. You seem to be there now: http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=84WK4 Not certain why it was missing before. A keyword search under RHOD also picks you too now. Terry On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:39 PM, John M Rhodes <johnmrhodes409@gmail.com>wrote: > Terry. Does your tool work with ysearch number 84WK4 with 67 markers? I > put it into YSearch in 2007 or 2008 and joined I group several months ago > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 8, 2012, at 9:36 PM, Terry <tdrobb@gmail.com> wrote: > > > This grouping is just, I believe, what I call "I1.000111*". A typical... >

My core 16 haplotypes from different surnames and Ibeo-Latin American locations show TMRCA of only 300 years. I think founder was a powerful person or close set of male relatives involved in the Spanish colonizations. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 6:09 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 How old would this group likely be? Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal or Alan? I think that's who would have taken I1 to Spain. I'm not actually sure the Vandals and Alans were Germanic; I think they might have been steppe people; Sarmatians or Scythians, living farther south. Dora On 3/8/2012 8:36 PM, Terry wrote: > This grouping is just, I believe, what I call "I1.000111*". A typical > member would be this person: > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=92519 > whose STR Branch Code is I1.0001111100001 . > > So that branch is already mapped, and called "I1.000111*". People in that > branch are often reporting Spain as the location of origin for their > most-distant male-line ancestor. And it is likely that most people in that > branch will be Z58+ Z59+ and onto Z60+ and then possibly Z140+ or other > things downstream (or not). > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

< Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal or Alan?> In North Africa where Vandals finally landed after their walk through Europe we have no I1s. In Spain and Southern France where finally lived Visigoths share of I1 seems to be very low. I think that both Visigoths and Vandals were rather R1b. In Southern Scandinavia where they lived before the walk through Europe R1b has still a very significant share. Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:09 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 How old would this group likely be? Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal or Alan? I think that's who would have taken I1 to Spain. I'm not actually sure the Vandals and Alans were Germanic; I think they might have been steppe people; Sarmatians or Scythians, living farther south. Dora On 3/8/2012 8:36 PM, Terry wrote: > This grouping is just, I believe, what I call "I1.000111*". A typical > member would be this person: > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=92519 > whose STR Branch Code is I1.0001111100001 . > > So that branch is already mapped, and called "I1.000111*". People in > that branch are often reporting Spain as the location of origin for > their most-distant male-line ancestor. And it is likely that most > people in that branch will be Z58+ Z59+ and onto Z60+ and then > possibly Z140+ or other things downstream (or not). > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4860 - Release Date: 03/09/12

This grouping is just, I believe, what I call "I1.000111*". A typical member would be this person: http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=92519 whose STR Branch Code is I1.0001111100001 . So that branch is already mapped, and called "I1.000111*". People in that branch are often reporting Spain as the location of origin for their most-distant male-line ancestor. And it is likely that most people in that branch will be Z58+ Z59+ and onto Z60+ and then possibly Z140+ or other things downstream (or not). As a general principle, all such nice "groupings" of STR results are already exhaustively mapped in the STR Branch Code Tree given in the link at the top of http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi . Just look at the picture of that tree given in the PDF file, and then find any tight bunching of leaves and branches that you like. Then read off the branch code if you want to give it a name. There are so many of them. For example, I1.011* is a nice little bunch, and it contains virtually all the L338+ people. And I1.100* is another STR bunch that is from Finland and has virtually all the L258+ people. Similarly, there is a main bunch for Z63. And for I2-M438 people, there are some really nice bunches that are tightly associated with an ancestral geographic region and with some specific SNP alleles. So I1.000111* is just another STR bunch, which has a peak ancestral location frequency in Spain. And it is associated with some SNP's etc. I could list many such examples. They are already mapped in the STR Branch Code tree. Terry PS. The STR bunch I1.1100* may end up holding many of the L813+ people - I am just waiting for more results to come in to see if that trend continues. On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Over last couple days Marek Skarbek Kozietulski and I have fleshed out a > new clade in I1xL22 and which is nicknamed I1-Iber. > > It’s core members are from Iberia, Latin America, and New Mexico USA. The > core looks very young back to its tmrca; and there are hints it’s members > include Iberian Jews of earlier centuries. > YHRD database indicates a mother lode of members from Colombia, South > America > > Marek and I have maybe a different view about how far it extends beyond > these core members; that is one of the things which z series snp tests and > 68-111 marker extensions of haplotypes can help resolve. > > The core haplotype is identified by following STR values: > > DYS390 = 23 > DYS391 = 11 > DYS385 = 13/15 > DYS447 = 22 > DYS461 = 11 > DYS576 = 15 > > and of course the DYS462 = 12 and DYS511 = 9 associated with I1xL22 > > It would help establish the outer boundaries of this clade if its z-series > snp status could be determined and some extensions to 111 markers made on > its haplotypes. > > Being an I1 clade, with I1 not one of the regular haplogroups associated > with Iberia, we would also like to find out if it has any membership beyond > Iberia in Europe. > So far we really have not found such, unless one really relaxes the match > to the identifying STR values indicated above. > > Ken > >

-----Original Message----- From: K Ruud Just wondering if the DF29 and Z131 are running separately downstream from M253 ? Best regards Ken Ruud (Z58-, Z63-, Z131-) [[The most immediate question for someone with your snp status is whether you are DF29 derived or ancestral. There are no empirical guidelines at present to answer that short of testing for DF29 ]]