How common is R1a in those areas? Dora On 3/9/2012 4:34 PM, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski wrote: > < Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal > or Alan?> > In North Africa where Vandals finally landed after their walk through Europe > we have no I1s. In Spain and Southern France where finally lived Visigoths > share of I1 seems to be very low. I think that both Visigoths and Vandals > were rather R1b. In Southern Scandinavia where they lived before the walk > through Europe R1b has still a very significant share. > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski > > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 5:09 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22 > > How old would this group likely be? Any chance it's Visigoth, Vandal > or Alan? I think that's who would have taken I1 to Spain. I'm not > actually sure the Vandals and Alans were Germanic; I think they might have > been steppe people; Sarmatians or Scythians, living farther south. > > Dora > > > On 3/8/2012 8:36 PM, Terry wrote: >> This grouping is just, I believe, what I call "I1.000111*". A typical >> member would be this person: >> http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=92519 >> whose STR Branch Code is I1.0001111100001 . >> >> So that branch is already mapped, and called "I1.000111*". People in >> that branch are often reporting Spain as the location of origin for >> their most-distant male-line ancestor. And it is likely that most >> people in that branch will be Z58+ Z59+ and onto Z60+ and then >> possibly Z140+ or other things downstream (or not). >> >

< There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. > I agree with this view. I think that significant changes of haplotypic representation in a given territory happened only if entire tribes moved in this territory, either through at least partial ethnical cleansings, or this territory was already empted. This happened often in times of all these European migrations during the 1. Millennium AC (Goths, vandals, Alans, Huns etc.). The times of Viking or Norman conquests were more about robbery, and grants of estates for leaders of these conquests, less about ethnical cleansings. Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Salles Torres Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 2:50 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Hello, Mark and Aaron There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. Some social connections established during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son of Roger I de Montgommery (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who ended up becoming king: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM From: "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22)   Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4861 - Release Date: 03/09/12

SNP's are useful to tag populations. The info coming from the 1000 Genome Project volunteers was that Z186 was downstream from L801: http://bit.ly/M223Z186 . So volunteers from each L801+ subgroup (some subgroups have only one volunteer representing each) ordered the test. Naturally, when you ask for volunteers, larger groups tend to have more than one.  We don't yet know what division (if any) Z186 will create. But it could split a current subgroup in the middle like L812 did to Roots Group 1/446 = 8. SNP's regroup haplotypes all the time (sometimes uniting groups that differ STR-wise and dividing groups that look similar on the surface). And for all I know, a piece of Cont 1 could still break off from the Z186+ continentals... One never knows. It's always safer to test than to guess. I did request that L801- Continentals (Cont3a, Cont2c) test for Z186. I got one volunteer from Cont3a, none from Cont2c yet. I am thankful to all the volunteers who promptly order the SNP tests so we can rely on actual results rather than assumptions. Additionally, I always suggest to my project members that before they spend time hunting down what could be a ghost MRCA, that they first make sure they have the same terminal SNP as their match. In order to do that, both need to test. This approach tends to be much more productive than frustrating people out of genetic genealogy after are unable to materialize a ghost MRCA. Aaron Torres From: Haakon Styri <styri@online.no> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Testing Bandwagons Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 01:59:47 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <3F7E3CF1902241D8BC8B0CE3A3B1AEDF@kenPC> Ken, The challenge is herding a large group of people, and if you look at the Y-DNA chart every haplotype group headline is marked with the SNPs that are assumed positive and the text " tests recommended". In plain words, the instructions suggest testing to confirm the teories. To be somewhat blunt, it's not a scientific approach. The problem is that most people simply do as they're told. We know (or at least assume) that you and the project administrators have done an excellent job. Maybe a better apporoach is to challenge us tp prove you wrong. ;-) At least, the value of testing negative must be made clear enough tp encourage a better testing approach. H.Styri > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [knordtvedt@bresnan.net] > Sent: 2012-03-10 18:20:28 MET > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Testing Bandwagons > > SNPs are mainly useful for dividing populations, although sometimes they can to a degree unite haplotypes which otherwise show little affinity for each other. > > Today we had a flood of L801+ who all tested Z186 and all were derived for this new snp as well. I have not yet plowed through the order records, but I hope there are some L801- who are testing for Z186. No such test results were reported out today. > > There are many different clades of M223+ L801- Continental. There is no necessary reason the borderline between L801 derived and ancestrals will coincide with the borderline between Z186 derived and ancestral --- although they could. > > So rather than do tests on new snps in a bandwagon manner, the new snp should be investigated from ?both sides? of the divide --- so to speak. > > If you are in an odd clade or cluster of M223+ Continental it will be more informative for us if you test for Z186 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jürgen, Generally, I agree with the thesis that Suebi were dominated genetically by the I1. I am not sure which wave of Suebi attacking Europe from North between times of Caesar and 570 AC was the most numerous, and how large areas were embraced by them. On my map http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/normans_ce_distri_map.htm I see a very high density of I1 along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. I would link this density with the Suebi expansion. Other areas which you have mentioned as connected to Suebi are not so I1 intense. North-Eastern Thuringia and Upper Saxony, where you are from, have increased presence of I1, but this could be also linked to the Saxon conquest of Elb-Slavs (even to the well known ethnical cleansings performed by Markgraf Geron in the Xth century). All these waves of Scandinavian tribes were driven by periodic famines, and probably the attacks of Suebi, Goths, Vandals were caused by the same famines (were synchronic). Suebi started their attacks from the area of today Denmark and South-Western part of Scania, ie. areas where even today I1 has a high share. So it is logical that I1 was probably well represented among them. Goths started more in the North-Eastern part of Scania and in Gotland, where R1b has a high share. So I would expect them to be carriers more of R1b than I1. The relatively high share of R1b and low of I1 in Poland, which was on the route of Goths, can probably be linked to Goths. It is known, that Goths have spent several generations on the territories of the today Poland. Probably, certain part of moving Goth remained on the territory of today Poland. There are three regions in Poland where population is partly linked ethnically to Goth (the most significant is Kociewie South of Gdansk/Danzig, this names means something like Goths-Land). Nevertheless, I think that also among Goths could be a certain share of I1, which has to be considered. The I1 case mentioned by Aaron Casillas (Norway-Poland-Portugal) is probably a good example. Also the Gottschee region of Slovenia, where I1 has an increased share, gives something to think about. Best, Marek -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dnag-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:51 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Suebo-Alemannic population and hg I1 in central Europe (was: Suebi in Galicia and Portugal) << This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland.>> Marek, "the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times" you refer to, regarding an early and by population numerously not that important settlement is the same area the Suebo-Alemannic final and large settlement took place about 300 years later and the area where this Suebian population still is living today. The Alemannic "tribes" always were part of the geographicly between lower river Elbe and what is Slovakia currently largely distributed and numerous Suebian federation, with tribes like the Semnoni, Warni, Langobardi, Hermunduri, Quadi, Marcomanni, and some more tribes. All of them belonged to the Elbe Germanics, as a synonym to the Suebi and their federation. "Alemanni" means "all men", not a tribe but rather large groups of Suebian warriors from different Suebian tribes in order to warfare against the Roman empire. As of about the year 230 the Alemannic storm ran permanently and widely against the borders (the Roman "limes") of the Roman Empire in current central, southern and southwestern Germany. The Romans retreated and the Suebo-Alemannic tribes settled and expanded finally largely between the river Neckar and upstream along river Rhine, in the Alsace (an area name which means "Seats of the Alemans"), and later in Switzerland and in western Austria. So rather this later, large and final settling is the reason why you can find a significant percentage of hg I1 in these areas. And besides this, it also can mean why I myself bear the I1 hg for possibly being descendant of Suebian ancestors, settling in the Thuringian area - at least being descendant from the I1 founder in northern Germany and the lower Elbe basin especially ca. 8000 years ago, thousands of years before Germanic tribes found their Pre-Germanic origin by melting Scandinavian and northern German Old Europeans and immigrating Indoeuropeans. << So Suebi could have a significant share of I1.>> Possibly yes, see above. Best regards. Jürgen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Samstag, 10. März 2012 03:53:38 > < Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the > Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic > (only > Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level > than the rest of Iberia!> Yes, you are right that in this > North-Western corner of Galicia the share of > I1 is a little higher. This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of > I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in > Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. So > Suebi could have a significant share of I1. > Best, > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4861 - Release Date: 03/09/12

Thanks!   The only information I have found are accounts of English/German/Frisian Crusaders during the Reconquest.   http://books.google.com/books?id=wsMDoNjs3NsC&lpg=PA125&dq=Frisian%20Crusaders%20Lisbon&pg=PA125#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20Crusaders%20Lisbon&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=yA3p6v3UxyIC&lpg=PA336&dq=Frisian%20Lisbon&pg=PA336#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20Lisbon&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=uWa5X5qa9bAC&lpg=PA70&dq=Frisian%20Spain&pg=PA70#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=xPrT3kLn7w4C&lpg=PA152&dq=Frisian%20Spain&pg=PA152#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20Spain&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=uWa5X5qa9bAC&lpg=PA69&dq=Frisian%20English%20Lisbon&pg=PA70#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20English%20Lisbon&f=false   and Robert Ferguson's book chapter "When Allah met Odin"   Viking colony in Portugual, very interesting they still use a form of Runes. http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B3voa_de_Varzim   And in the etymology of many names and words...   Probably one of the more important words in modern Spanish is the word for Brother..."Hermano" which is a latinized word for "Germano."   ________________________________ From: Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Hello, Mark and Aaron There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. Some social connections established during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son                                 of Roger I de Montgommery                                 (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with                                 Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who                                 ended up becoming king:                                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile                                 . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM From: "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22)   Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Aaron, Thank you for your very informative and interesting response to my post. Probably, sometime over the next decade, we will sort all of this out as DNA testing becomes more affordable and widespread. Best, Mark On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hello, Mark and Aaron > > There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. > > Some social connections established >  during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son >                                of Roger I de Montgommery >                                (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with >                                Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who >                                ended up becoming king: >                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile >                                . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. > > Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. > > Aaron Torres > > > Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM > From: > "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> > To: > "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> > Hi Mark P > > I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's >  been difficult to spot the very exact signatures. > > One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). > > > ________________________________ > From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > > Aaron, > > It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the > Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian > Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the > genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman > expert, could comment on this topic. > > Mark Pallette > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Mark and Aaron There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. Some social connections established during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son of Roger I de Montgommery (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who ended up becoming king: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM From: "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22)   Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette

Ken, what percent of Scottish lowlands men are I1? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:29 PM, "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > Thank you Mr. West for testing Z138 and confirming the derived status for > membership in I1-ESc-13 clade. That now makes 5 such snp confirmations for > the clade. > > I resend my description of this new clade I1-ESc-13, and it is down below. > > Sadly, a number of other probable members of this clade who I contacted > neither ordered upgrades to 67 and 111 markers, nor ordered Z138 and.or Z139 > snps. Sometimes the hobby gets very frustrating. > > As you can see below the clade membership is shaky if one depends on only > the first 37 STRs. That's why STR and/or SNP upgrades were suggested for > potential members of this clade whose world hotspot is Scotland. > > I have a list of more than 30 potential or probable members of the clade. > Many of them need further testing to confirm membership or rule it out. Mr. > West's 37 marker haplotype by itself would have never caught my eye. > But his 67 and then 111 marker haplotype pointed strongly toward his > membership, and now his Z138 result further confirms. > > Confession is in order: My Norwegian haplotype is in this clade; so that > triggers my pleadings for more testing by all the potential and probable > members of I1-ESc-13 > > > > > > > > In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes of > I1xL22. > > Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. > Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to > belong to clade. > > I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 > possibles. > Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ > > Markers 1-37 > DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 is also present > DYS449 = 30 norm 28 > DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 also present in significant number > DYS456 = 15 norm 14 > > Markers 38-67 > Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 > > Markers 68-111 > DYS710 = 31 > DYS552 = 26 norm 25 > DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 > DYS497 = 15 norm 14 > > If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to 67 > or 111 markers. > > Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than of > AS2 clade. > > So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on > whether one is of this clade or not. > > Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps lowland, > east coast Scotland > Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been > found! > > Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence that > haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. > > Ken > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Aaron, Yes, in reference to Terry's migration patterns, the focal point for my deep ancestry (as represented by the dark red color) is Portugal. All of this runs counter to family lore about my Pallette ancestry originating in northern France. Perhaps, some of my Norman ancestors became zealous Reconquistas in Portugal? It's a shame that we don't have more data about the various I1 haplotypes in Portugal. On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Aaron Casillas <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Mark P > > I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures. > > One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). > > > ________________________________ >  From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > > Aaron, > > It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the > Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian > Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the > genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman > expert, could comment on this topic. > > Mark Pallette > > On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Aaron Salles Torres > <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Jürgen, >> >> You are absolutely correct! (And it's very good to find someone so knowledgeable about Iberian linguistics and toponymy). >> >> Still, >>  there is a complicating factor - as always. The Suebi who remained >> stationed in Northwestern France seem to have been assimilated by the >> Normans later, who were a very heterogeneous group. Coincidentally, when >>  the >>  Normans invaded Iberia they seem to have concentrated around the very >> area inhabited by the Suebi (Northern Portugal and Galicia). >> >> When >>  looking at Iberian I1 today, we clearly find a hotspot in that area. >> Furthermore, we find two groups - those who seem to have no close >> matches outside of Iberia and those who have matches with Northwestern >> Europeans (French, German, British, Dutch, etc...). One explanation is >> that the group with no close matches outside of Iberia were stationed >> there earlier, during the time of the Suebi. The second group may have >> come with the Normans. >> >> The geographic proximity of these lines, >> then the fact that they mixed when colonizing the Americas makes things >> more difficult to comprehend - Aaron brought up the case of Portuguese >> migration to Mexico and I've seen evidence of the same in Puerto Rico. >> >> >> >> It will be interesting when more Iberian I1 individuals test for the Z >> SNP's, so we can try to correlate the Z58 x Z63 results with the >> historical evidence we have. >> >> >> >> Aaron Torres >> >> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I1Iberico/default.aspx?section=yresults >> >> [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) >> Friday, March 9, 2012 7:37 PM >> From: >> "Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga" >>  <familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de> >> To: >> y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> >> And >>  it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of >> the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the >>  "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is >> in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland >> and western Austria. >> >> Galicia and the north of Portugal not only >> is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of >> placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused >> significant higher hg I level than the rest of >>  Iberia! >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> wrote: > Jürgen, > > You are absolutely correct! (And it's very good to find someone so knowledgeable about Iberian linguistics and toponymy). > > Still, >  there is a complicating factor - as always. The Suebi who remained > stationed in Northwestern France seem to have been assimilated by the > Normans later, who were a very heterogeneous group. Coincidentally, when >  the >  Normans invaded Iberia they seem to have concentrated around the very > area inhabited by the Suebi (Northern Portugal and Galicia). > > When >  looking at Iberian I1 today, we clearly find a hotspot in that area. > Furthermore, we find two groups - those who seem to have no close > matches outside of Iberia and those who have matches with Northwestern > Europeans (French, German, British, Dutch, etc...). One explanation is > that the group with no close matches outside of Iberia were stationed > there earlier, during the time of the Suebi. The second group may have > come with the Normans. > > The geographic proximity of these lines, > then the fact that they mixed when colonizing the Americas makes things > more difficult to comprehend - Aaron brought up the case of Portuguese > migration to Mexico and I've seen evidence of the same in Puerto Rico. > > > > It will be interesting when more Iberian I1 individuals test for the Z > SNP's, so we can try to correlate the Z58 x Z63 results with the > historical evidence we have. > > > > Aaron Torres > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I1Iberico/default.aspx?section=yresults > > [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > Friday, March 9, 2012 7:37 PM > From: > "Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga" >  <familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de> > To: > y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > And >  it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of > the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the >  "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is > in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland > and western Austria. > > Galicia and the north of Portugal not only > is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of > placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused > significant higher hg I level than the rest of >  Iberia! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm z138+, Z139+ and L211- On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com > wrote: > These results have been recently received by the "I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+ > Project" ( http://bit.ly/I1Z58andI1Z63 ). Now it's necessary to establish > whether L211 is also downstream from Z139 (Z138 and Z139 are supposedly > phyloequivalent). > > Aaron Torres > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 7411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: BUYHOMEINFLORIDA@GMAIL.COM Brasil SP: (11)3958-4311 Brasil RJ : (21)3958-1329

This means if my husband is L22+ and P109+, I CAN NOT assume he is Z63-, M227-, Z58- et al negative downstream? Or in the L22+ group, I CAN or CAN NOT assume he is L205-, L813-, L287- ? OK, let's try this flowchart. https://picasaweb.google.com/106643440573403924030/DNA2#5718328292299125570 Thank you, Connie Bradish

Roy ISOGG corrected it's tree... z73 is a downstream of z60. On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Roy Silfven <rsilfven@bendcable.com>wrote: > Terry ~ > > I am Z60+. I had a hunch I'd be Z73 derived in spite the ISOGG I1 tree. I > was relying on a I1 tree diagram done by the Russian (screen name > Pastor_Shag - I'll simple refer to him here as PS). I have referred to PS > earlier. I have no sense about this stuff myself, other than > intuition(often wrong) and the work you, Ken, and many others have > generously shared. PS's proposed SNP chart was posted many weeks ago on > another forum. That forum is currently unavailable. While I can't share > the chart with you, he did have Z73 downstream of Z60. My own SNP chart is > based on his work which you can see here: > https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1zY7StsPYK7y0d8UzDXRDYfyeZIuaRyurSrNnIM5fOpM/edit > > Here's a link to his SNP map for his collection of guys reporting Z60+: > http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/1154/ > > In addition, PS maintains this chart, I1 new SNPs" at google docs: > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag4TAbUs4_O2dDNLUHpoWWo2VEw4cHBTVUgxVURTQXc#gid=0 > What I like about the "I1 new SNPs" chart is one can easily see the > progress of who has tested what SNP and what SNP an individual might wish > to test for. > > Best, Roy > > > Roy Silfven > rsilfven@bendcable.com > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 7411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: BUYHOMEINFLORIDA@GMAIL.COM Brasil SP: (11)3958-4311 Brasil RJ : (21)3958-1329

Typo alert :-( Kit 76513 tested Z78 and Z79 as well, and that result is Z186+, Z78-, Z79- H.Styri > From: Haakon Styri [styri@online.no] > Sent: 2012-03-10 12:48:10 MET > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Attention Continentals: SNP Z186 now available on FT DNA! > > First Z186 test results are in: 14 out of 14 positive, all from the L801+ group. > > Kit 76513 tested Z78 and Z79 as well, and that result is Z168+, Z78-, Z79- > > I think there are more tests still pending in the first batch (523), but more testing is obviously needed. > > H.Styri > > > > From: Aaron Salles Torres [sallfertorr@yahoo.com] > > Sent: 2012-02-28 18:07:12 MET > > To: ISOGG@yahoogroups.com, genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Attention Continentals: SNP Z186 now available on FT DNA! > > > > Dear I2b1/M223 Project Members, > > > > It's been a long wait but the new M223 Z series SNP's are now finally available on FT > > DNA! > > > > If > > you belong to the large Cont group of M223 and/or have previously > > tested positive for L801, please consider ordering SNP Z186. >

First Z186 test results are in: 14 out of 14 positive, all from the L801+ group. Kit 76513 tested Z78 and Z79 as well, and that result is Z168+, Z78-, Z79- I think there are more tests still pending in the first batch (523), but more testing is obviously needed. H.Styri > From: Aaron Salles Torres [sallfertorr@yahoo.com] > Sent: 2012-02-28 18:07:12 MET > To: ISOGG@yahoogroups.com, genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Attention Continentals: SNP Z186 now available on FT DNA! > > Dear I2b1/M223 Project Members, > > It's been a long wait but the new M223 Z series SNP's are now finally available on FT > DNA! > > If > you belong to the large Cont group of M223 and/or have previously > tested positive for L801, please consider ordering SNP Z186.

I don't know, but I believe substantially higher than I1 percentage in highlands. And I suspect lowland Scotland will be more I1xL22 and highlands will be more I1 L22+. -----Original Message----- From: John M Rhodes Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:31 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-ESc-13 clade and Z138/139 Ken, what percent of Scottish lowlands men are I1? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:29 PM, "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > Thank you Mr. West for testing Z138 and confirming the derived status for > membership in I1-ESc-13 clade. That now makes 5 such snp confirmations > for > the clade. > > I resend my description of this new clade I1-ESc-13, and it is down below. > > Sadly, a number of other probable members of this clade who I contacted > neither ordered upgrades to 67 and 111 markers, nor ordered Z138 and.or > Z139 > snps. Sometimes the hobby gets very frustrating. > > As you can see below the clade membership is shaky if one depends on only > the first 37 STRs. That's why STR and/or SNP upgrades were suggested for > potential members of this clade whose world hotspot is Scotland. > > I have a list of more than 30 potential or probable members of the clade. > Many of them need further testing to confirm membership or rule it out. > Mr. > West's 37 marker haplotype by itself would have never caught my eye. > But his 67 and then 111 marker haplotype pointed strongly toward his > membership, and now his Z138 result further confirms. > > Confession is in order: My Norwegian haplotype is in this clade; so that > triggers my pleadings for more testing by all the potential and probable > members of I1-ESc-13 > > > > > > > > In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes > of > I1xL22. > > Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. > Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to > belong to clade. > > I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 > possibles. > Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ > > Markers 1-37 > DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 is also present > DYS449 = 30 norm 28 > DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 also present in significant number > DYS456 = 15 norm 14 > > Markers 38-67 > Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 > > Markers 68-111 > DYS710 = 31 > DYS552 = 26 norm 25 > DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 > DYS497 = 15 norm 14 > > If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to > 67 > or 111 markers. > > Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than > of > AS2 clade. > > So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on > whether one is of this clade or not. > > Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps > lowland, > east coast Scotland > Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been > found! > > Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence > that > haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. > > Ken > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula. This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia. Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> wrote: > Jürgen, > > You are absolutely correct! (And it's very good to find someone so knowledgeable about Iberian linguistics and toponymy). > > Still, >  there is a complicating factor - as always. The Suebi who remained > stationed in Northwestern France seem to have been assimilated by the > Normans later, who were a very heterogeneous group. Coincidentally, when >  the >  Normans invaded Iberia they seem to have concentrated around the very > area inhabited by the Suebi (Northern Portugal and Galicia). > > When >  looking at Iberian I1 today, we clearly find a hotspot in that area. > Furthermore, we find two groups - those who seem to have no close > matches outside of Iberia and those who have matches with Northwestern > Europeans (French, German, British, Dutch, etc...). One explanation is > that the group with no close matches outside of Iberia were stationed > there earlier, during the time of the Suebi. The second group may have > come with the Normans. > > The geographic proximity of these lines, > then the fact that they mixed when colonizing the Americas makes things > more difficult to comprehend - Aaron brought up the case of Portuguese > migration to Mexico and I've seen evidence of the same in Puerto Rico. > > > > It will be interesting when more Iberian I1 individuals test for the Z > SNP's, so we can try to correlate the Z58 x Z63 results with the > historical evidence we have. > > > > Aaron Torres > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I1Iberico/default.aspx?section=yresults > > [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > Friday, March 9, 2012 7:37 PM > From: > "Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga" >  <familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de> > To: > y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > And >  it was one remarkable influence of the Suebi on the pronunciation of > the local romance language in northwestern Iberia that the >  "s" at the end of a syllable and a word is pronounced "sh" - as it is > in our Alemanic and Swabian dialect in Germany, the Alsace, Switzerland > and western Austria. > > Galicia and the north of Portugal not only > is the area on the Iberian peninsula having the highest density of > placenames of Germanic (only Suebian) origin but also shows a focused > significant higher hg I level than the rest of >  Iberia! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Mr. West for testing Z138 and confirming the derived status for membership in I1-ESc-13 clade. That now makes 5 such snp confirmations for the clade. I resend my description of this new clade I1-ESc-13, and it is down below. Sadly, a number of other probable members of this clade who I contacted neither ordered upgrades to 67 and 111 markers, nor ordered Z138 and.or Z139 snps. Sometimes the hobby gets very frustrating. As you can see below the clade membership is shaky if one depends on only the first 37 STRs. That's why STR and/or SNP upgrades were suggested for potential members of this clade whose world hotspot is Scotland. I have a list of more than 30 potential or probable members of the clade. Many of them need further testing to confirm membership or rule it out. Mr. West's 37 marker haplotype by itself would have never caught my eye. But his 67 and then 111 marker haplotype pointed strongly toward his membership, and now his Z138 result further confirms. Confession is in order: My Norwegian haplotype is in this clade; so that triggers my pleadings for more testing by all the potential and probable members of I1-ESc-13 In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes of I1xL22. Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to belong to clade. I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 possibles. Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ Markers 1-37 DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 is also present DYS449 = 30 norm 28 DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 also present in significant number DYS456 = 15 norm 14 Markers 38-67 Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 Markers 68-111 DYS710 = 31 DYS552 = 26 norm 25 DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 DYS497 = 15 norm 14 If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to 67 or 111 markers. Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than of AS2 clade. So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on whether one is of this clade or not. Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps lowland, east coast Scotland Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been found! Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence that haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have created a flowchart for L22+ in I1 according to K Nordtvedt 1 February 2012. I would appreciate someone looking over the flow chart and seeing if I have correctly interpreted Nordtvedt's data. I am assuming that the SNPs used are either + or -. If a SNP is listed as L22 and you follow that line, it means L22+. All others must be L22- if not on the L22+ line. Yes? https://picasaweb.google.com/106643440573403924030/DNA#slideshow/5718296619547098418 Thank you. Connie Bradish

As far as I know only a single L211+ has been found. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bardy Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 11:06 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] SNP L211 is downstream from Z138 I'm z138+, Z139+ and L211- On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com > wrote: > These results have been recently received by the "I1>Z58+ and I1>Z63+ > Project" ( http://bit.ly/I1Z58andI1Z63 ). Now it's necessary to establish > whether L211 is also downstream from Z139 (Z138 and Z139 are supposedly > phyloequivalent). > > Aaron Torres > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 7411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: BUYHOMEINFLORIDA@GMAIL.COM Brasil SP: (11)3958-4311 Brasil RJ : (21)3958-1329 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message