They need a name for the park next to come."Jurassic" is already in hand ; any suggestion ? > > http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16188009 > > Then a neanderthal clone? >

Ken. So you have a sample size of 2 (two), and from that you are drawing conclusion for all? Also, you are saying that the FTDNA I1 Project group administrators are classifying one of those cases incorrectly. Where/how did they go wrong? Is it a subjective classification, or are they applying different rules to you? Terry On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry > > I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. > > In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken > the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), > with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other > Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". > > Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why > on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any > association with STR values at this stage. > > [[Two of two from AS3 clade are L382+. There are no other Z382+ yet from > outside of AS3, though I expect there will eventually be. The I1xL22 > generics are showing up on all the new branch lines defined by the z snps, > as they probably should in a rapidly expanding population. Others do the > FTDNA Project classifying, not me. Robust clade means large count of > members. My database has 156 haplotypes for clade AS3, and I have not > updated my searches in quite a while. For those who think they are in AS3 > based on first 67 markers, the 68-111 markers give four more special STR > values --- 461 = 11, 441 = 15, 714 = 25, 715 = 25. In the first 67 markers > the identifying marker values are 458 = 14, 447 = 24, 449 = 30, and 464 = > 12,15,16,16. But AS3 seems older than most I1xL22 clades so has > significant > variance (mutations) in its haplotype population. KN]] > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Belinda, So far Z138+ goes with Z139+ based on the seven relevant examples in the FTDNA I1 Project. Maybe the eighth person that is Z139+ will come out as Z138-. We await more data to see what will happen. In regards to kit 146456, here is a listing of some close matches, and a map of the geographic frequency of people with similar STR values: http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=146456 Of course the paternal ancestors of kit 146456 could have come from anywhere a few hundred years ago. But other similar people are reporting their paternal ancestral as coming from the locations as indicated in the map. Terry On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Belinda Jacks <belindaj@sbcglobal.net>wrote: > Ken etal, > > Can you help me once again decipher all this data. Nelson kit 146456 is > positive for z 139. He has not tested for Z138. Do I need to do that? > . I looked at the numbers for I1-ESc-13 > > > He doesn't fit exactly. Can someone tell me what to test next and where > Nelson > fits in all this. > > I struggle with understanding this but it is fascinating. > > Belinda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The latest Z series snp test results are incorporated into “Tree for I1” pdf file at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net Those historic STR-based clades which now have snp tags are shown on the tree as present evidence best suggests. Almost all the new branches of the I1 tree established from the Z snps will also include some previously I1* generics which now become generics of the new downstream subhaplogroups. The L338 branch is an interesting exception. After a couple years of extension testin of L338, every L338+ can comfortably be assigned to AS1 or AS8 --- no exceptions. The ancestral branch line leading to AS1 and AS8 must have been extremely pruned of any branches through extinctions over many centuries prior to the MRCA of AS1/AS8. You can see from the various red vertical lines in the tree, that many of the nodes have been time estimated using interclade variances. The arrowheads generally indicate the individual clade tmrca estimates using intraclade variances. Next batch of Z series snp results will most likely lead to additional tweaking or branch addons to the tree --- especially with regard to he upstream DF29 snp location. Ken

I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any association with STR values at this stage. In regards to my own tree, I'm still holding back until there are more than just two positive Z382 results before suggesting an hypothesis on that SNP. Terry On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Robust clade I1-AS3 is turning out Z382+ > >

A second 7e can only help, but it does not have the urgency of getting a first representative from some unrepresented clade. **************************************** I told him what you said ,and he says he will order it today. And I've told the group no more orders for DF29 at present until we have results from the first tests and know more about it. Lindsey

Maybe "Fox" but that's already taken by a channel. Sorry Mr Moderator. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 13, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Didier VERNADE <didier.vernade@orange.fr> wrote: > > They need a name for the park next to come."Jurassic" is already in hand ; any suggestion ? > > >> >> http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16188009 >> >> Then a neanderthal clone? >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I meant Regeneroterra? -----Original Message----- From: Didier VERNADE Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:18 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Cloning the Past They need a name for the park next to come."Jurassic" is already in hand ; any suggestion ? > > http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16188009 > > Then a neanderthal clone? > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

should be: other Gonzalezes have tested M26+ On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Bernie Cullen <berniecullen@gmail.com>wrote: > Wil, > > Thanks for catching the M26+ and M26- for Mr. Gonzalez. When he joined the > I2a Project we noticed that he had a M26- which we didn't believe based on > his 67 markers. We contacted FTDNA and they agreed to retest M26, and the > result was M26+. He has also tested L160+ which is below M26 on the tree, > and other Gonzalezes with ancestry from the same area in Mexico who are > believed to be related have also tested M226+. So I am confident that he is > M26+. I don't have an opinion about whether FTDNA should remove the earlier > M26- result from his records. > > Bernie > > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Wilfred Husted <wmhusted@hotmail.com>wrote: > >> Howdy Bernie, >> >> Before I forget (always highly possible), check Gonzalez N9196 on the I2a >> chart and see if he shows both M26+ and M26-. >> >> Thanks for snagging the Puerto Rican ancestry fellow to test Z106. I shall >> await his result with bated breath! >> >> Wil. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bernie Cullen >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:36 AM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Any bites? (SNPs below Z106 in the I-M26 group) >> >> Thanks for reminding me Wil. A likely Z106+ person with paternal ancestry >> from Puerto Rico has agreed to test Z106 as a first step. If he is Z106+ >> we >> will ask him to test Z110, Z117, Z128 and Z129. (You were negative for all >> four, and so were two other Z106+ people). >> >> Because these 4 SNPs were discovered in two Z106+ people from Puerto Rico, >> maybe he has a better chance of being derived (positive) for some of >> these. >> I will work on finding others to test these. >> >> Bernie >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If > you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again > at berniecullen@gmail.com-- > -- ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again at berniecullen@gmail.com--

Wil, Thanks for catching the M26+ and M26- for Mr. Gonzalez. When he joined the I2a Project we noticed that he had a M26- which we didn't believe based on his 67 markers. We contacted FTDNA and they agreed to retest M26, and the result was M26+. He has also tested L160+ which is below M26 on the tree, and other Gonzalezes with ancestry from the same area in Mexico who are believed to be related have also tested M226+. So I am confident that he is M26+. I don't have an opinion about whether FTDNA should remove the earlier M26- result from his records. Bernie On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Wilfred Husted <wmhusted@hotmail.com>wrote: > Howdy Bernie, > > Before I forget (always highly possible), check Gonzalez N9196 on the I2a > chart and see if he shows both M26+ and M26-. > > Thanks for snagging the Puerto Rican ancestry fellow to test Z106. I shall > await his result with bated breath! > > Wil. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernie Cullen > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:36 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Any bites? (SNPs below Z106 in the I-M26 group) > > Thanks for reminding me Wil. A likely Z106+ person with paternal ancestry > from Puerto Rico has agreed to test Z106 as a first step. If he is Z106+ we > will ask him to test Z110, Z117, Z128 and Z129. (You were negative for all > four, and so were two other Z106+ people). > > Because these 4 SNPs were discovered in two Z106+ people from Puerto Rico, > maybe he has a better chance of being derived (positive) for some of these. > I will work on finding others to test these. > > Bernie > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again at berniecullen@gmail.com--

Generoterra? -----Original Message----- From: Didier VERNADE Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:18 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Cloning the Past They need a name for the park next to come."Jurassic" is already in hand ; any suggestion ? > > http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16188009 > > Then a neanderthal clone? > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

will do ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Does I1xL22 have life before DF29? > Other than avoiding the one with 14 14 15 15 at 464, I think any other of > the bunch would be fine. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Haggerty > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:00 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Does I1xL22 have life before DF29? > > I can arrange to have one of the Merediths who is AS4 > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~merideth/surnameproject.htm > (see the yellow section) do DF29--does it make any difference which one it > should be? > > Sharon Haggerty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > To: <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:08 PM > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Does I1xL22 have life before DF29? > > >>I want to thank the five people who seem to be generic, are either Z58-, >>Z63-, and Z131- or Z58- and Z63-, and who have ordered DF29 tests. >> >> With the new upstream snp DF29 added to FTDNA catalog, one big goal is to >> see if there is I1 life before DF29. Or does DF29 turn out >> phyloequivalent to M253 now that Z131 is effectively out of the picture >> for the indefinite future. >> >> On this same issue, it is important that all established clades found >> Z58- >> Z63- and Z131- have a representative testing DF29. I think all are >> covered except maybe the robust AS4 clade and the M227+ subhaplogroup? >> >> Can someone from these groups do the DF29 test? Or maybe I have missed >> some orders which fall outside of the Projects I can monitor? >> >> Ken >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16188009 Then a neanderthal clone?

Thanks for reminding me Wil. A likely Z106+ person with paternal ancestry from Puerto Rico has agreed to test Z106 as a first step. If he is Z106+ we will ask him to test Z110, Z117, Z128 and Z129. (You were negative for all four, and so were two other Z106+ people). Because these 4 SNPs were discovered in two Z106+ people from Puerto Rico, maybe he has a better chance of being derived (positive) for some of these. I will work on finding others to test these. Bernie On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Wilfred Husted <wmhusted@hotmail.com>wrote: > Hello Bernie Cullen, > > Have you been able to get any of those Z106+ hispanic guys to test the > other > Z series SNPs? > > Wil

Howdy Bernie, Before I forget (always highly possible), check Gonzalez N9196 on the I2a chart and see if he shows both M26+ and M26-. Thanks for snagging the Puerto Rican ancestry fellow to test Z106. I shall await his result with bated breath! Wil. -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Cullen Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:36 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Any bites? (SNPs below Z106 in the I-M26 group) Thanks for reminding me Wil. A likely Z106+ person with paternal ancestry from Puerto Rico has agreed to test Z106 as a first step. If he is Z106+ we will ask him to test Z110, Z117, Z128 and Z129. (You were negative for all four, and so were two other Z106+ people). Because these 4 SNPs were discovered in two Z106+ people from Puerto Rico, maybe he has a better chance of being derived (positive) for some of these. I will work on finding others to test these. Bernie

I would like to caution EVERYONE on this list. Please maintain some CIVILITY in your posts. Researchers have different methods. It is okay to disagree, but please do so amicably. I am really growing tired of having to remind people to behave like adults and professionals, no matter the situation. http://goo.gl/Dfcoe Aaron, List Administrator

Because you match on DYS19 and on DYS607 with the other two Edwards, one of which was already in the past placed in my AS3 collection, I'd say you three are very likely related within the era of surnames. Cheapest way to expand to 111 markers would of course be doing this to the one already 67 markers. Any of you could do the Z382 test and consider it valid for the three of you. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Edwards Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:20 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z382 I'm AS3 458=14, 447=24, 449=30, and 464= 12 16 17 17 instead of 12 15 16 16 Would I be of assistance if I ordered the Z382 test? I've ordered nothing beyond my 37 markers but a match has done through 67 so I'm riding on his coat tails. Rich Edwards kit 117199 ________________________________ From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:37 AM Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z382 -----Original Message----- From: Terry I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any association with STR values at this stage. [[Two of two from AS3 clade are L382+. There are no other Z382+ yet from outside of AS3, though I expect there will eventually be. The I1xL22 generics are showing up on all the new branch lines defined by the z snps, as they probably should in a rapidly expanding population. Others do the FTDNA Project classifying, not me. Robust clade means large count of members. My database has 156 haplotypes for clade AS3, and I have not updated my searches in quite a while. For those who think they are in AS3 based on first 67 markers, the 68-111 markers give four more special STR values --- 461 = 11, 441 = 15, 714 = 25, 715 = 25. In the first 67 markers the identifying marker values are 458 = 14, 447 = 24, 449 = 30, and 464 = 12,15,16,16. But AS3 seems older than most I1xL22 clades so has significant variance (mutations) in its haplotype population. KN]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'd say you are very likely to be in the AS3 clade. Two ways you could test this. Do the Z382 snp test and/or do the upgrade to 111 markers and look for the four str identifiers within which I mentioned. Unfortunately there is nothing in the 38-67 panel which will help for clade classifcation although it might be of help if you are looking for relatives within the clade. Incidently, I have another Edwards in AS3 but with slightly different DYS464 values. There are enough odd str values elsewhere in the 67, it could be compared with yours to see if you recently relate. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Edwards Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:20 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z382 I'm AS3 458=14, 447=24, 449=30, and 464= 12 16 17 17 instead of 12 15 16 16 Would I be of assistance if I ordered the Z382 test? I've ordered nothing beyond my 37 markers but a match has done through 67 so I'm riding on his coat tails. Rich Edwards kit 117199

-----Original Message----- From: Terry Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:10 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z382 Ken. So you have a sample size of 2 (two), and from that you are drawing conclusion for all? [[Not conclusions --- expectations. When two of two members of a clade show up derived for a novel snp, it usually applies for the whole clade. If you want a technical explanation of why this usually is the case I can go into that. KN ]] Also, you are saying that the FTDNA I1 Project group administrators are classifying one of those cases incorrectly. Where/how did they go wrong? [[You will have to ask them. I have my clade classification rules I have developed and used over 7 or 8 years for structuring my own database; I can only speak for it. KN ]]

-----Original Message----- From: Terry I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any association with STR values at this stage. [[Two of two from AS3 clade are L382+. There are no other Z382+ yet from outside of AS3, though I expect there will eventually be. The I1xL22 generics are showing up on all the new branch lines defined by the z snps, as they probably should in a rapidly expanding population. Others do the FTDNA Project classifying, not me. Robust clade means large count of members. My database has 156 haplotypes for clade AS3, and I have not updated my searches in quite a while. For those who think they are in AS3 based on first 67 markers, the 68-111 markers give four more special STR values --- 461 = 11, 441 = 15, 714 = 25, 715 = 25. In the first 67 markers the identifying marker values are 458 = 14, 447 = 24, 449 = 30, and 464 = 12,15,16,16. But AS3 seems older than most I1xL22 clades so has significant variance (mutations) in its haplotype population. KN]]