Other than summing mutation rates, I think the preference issue would degenerate into one of the typical hyper subjective debates. I gave my opinion and that's the last of it from me. But why one product can only be purchased after buying another escapes me, other than as a money enhancing strategy. When we have a monopoly situation, things are not pretty. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Didier VERNADE Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:05 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 38-67 vs 68-111 Is it possible to quantify the preference for 68-111 ? By the way , this is saying that FTDNA's competitors made a better choice but the 38-67 panel somehow won ... The 68-111 panel is mostly made out of markers from DNA-Heritage and other companies. > > FTDNA should not be demanding customers do the 38-67 panel of STRs before > ordering the 68-111 panel of STRs. The latter are much more informative; > customers can get much more bang for their buck. > > And of course it goes without saying, various project and other public > databases should include space for the 68-111 STRs. > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" as well as > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are > periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't agree that people necessarily want to get the 111 marker test, and one thing I truly value about Family Tree DNA is their honesty. I'm outright discouraging the 111 marker test on my projects. There's not enough known about the results for them to contribute anything but confusion, and most of my project members find the results they've got confusing enough. Dora On 3/21/2012 12:43 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > FTDNA should not be demanding customers do the 38-67 panel of STRs before ordering the 68-111 panel of STRs. The latter are much more informative; customers can get much more bang for their buck. > > And of course it goes without saying, various project and other public databases should include space for the 68-111 STRs. > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" as well as "I1modalities" at

Well, I hope $9000 of customer money achieves something? - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 3:18 PM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Cc: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com ; I1-Z58andZ63@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] [DNA] Roche 454 Sequencer Results Sorry, that was probably my fault. I sent 12 members to "Walk Through the Y" recently and I was informed today that the WTY's have created a jam in the FT DNA labs... Aaron Torres Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:23:26 -0500 From: "Lawrence Mayka" <lgmayka@ieee.org> Subject: Re: [DNA] Roche 454 Sequencer Results To: <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <08e401cd0616$86045350$920cf9f0$@org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Presumably, the remodeling is the reason we have had no new SNP results since March 10. > From: genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genealogy-dna- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ray Banks > Thomas indicated also that remodeling of the Family Tree DNA lab was a factor in > the long time it took to get output on these early samples and that he would be > scoring the data for each participant. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We always strive for positive outcomes. Thanks, Aaron Torres From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.comWell, I hope $9000 of customer money achieves something? - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 3:18 PM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Cc: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com ; I1-Z58andZ63@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] [DNA] Roche 454 Sequencer Results Sorry, that was probably my fault. I sent 12 members to "Walk Through the Y" recently and I was informed today that the WTY's have created a jam in the FT DNA labs... Aaron Torres Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:23:26 -0500 From: "Lawrence Mayka" <lgmayka@ieee.org> Subject: Re: [DNA] Roche 454 Sequencer Results To: <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <08e401cd0616$86045350$920cf9f0$@org> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Presumably, the remodeling is the reason we have had no new SNP results since March 10. > From: genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genealogy-dna- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ray Banks > Thomas indicated also that remodeling of the Family Tree DNA lab was a factor in > the long time it took to get output on these early samples and that he would be > scoring the data for each participant. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How hard can it be to bump Ysearch up to 111? It is already 100, isn't it? I would also be good to fix the printable certificate PDF's to include 111. Any word when that will be done, FTDNA people? Bill Hawk -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 1:43 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] 38-67 vs 68-111 FTDNA should not be demanding customers do the 38-67 panel of STRs before ordering the 68-111 panel of STRs. The latter are much more informative; customers can get much more bang for their buck. And of course it goes without saying, various project and other public databases should include space for the 68-111 STRs. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" as well as "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry, that was probably my fault. I sent 12 members to "Walk Through the Y" recently and I was informed today that the WTY's have created a jam in the FT DNA labs... Aaron Torres Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:23:26 -0500 From: "Lawrence Mayka" <lgmayka@ieee.org> Subject: Re: [DNA] Roche 454 Sequencer Results To: <genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <08e401cd0616$86045350$920cf9f0$@org> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Presumably, the remodeling is the reason we have had no new SNP results since March 10. > From: genealogy-dna-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genealogy-dna- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ray Banks > Thomas indicated also that remodeling of the Family Tree DNA lab was a factor in > the long time it took to get output on these early samples and that he would be > scoring the data for each participant.

Looking at these modalities, I expect to be Z382- Any idea about the TMRCA age of Z59+? Wim Y-search: QG86J FTdna: N6262

FTDNA should not be demanding customers do the 38-67 panel of STRs before ordering the 68-111 panel of STRs. The latter are much more informative; customers can get much more bang for their buck. And of course it goes without saying, various project and other public databases should include space for the 68-111 STRs. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" as well as "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

Look at "Tree for I1". It contains all the node age estimations I have done, and the tree shows Z59 bracketed between nodes which is all we can do for a snp. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" as well as "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wim Callewaert Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:55 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1modalities Looking at these modalities, I expect to be Z382- Any idea about the TMRCA age of Z59+? Wim Y-search: QG86J FTdna: N6262 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You say, *" I find it quite interesting that many I haplogroup came to the US by way of the Puritan movement. That eastern area of England (Puritan stronghold) was also the area of the Danelaw. Many of our ancestors may be descendants from those individuals who were "Vikings" and crossed from the Denmark area and came to live in Britain. " Over 25% of my Hg I clan are red heads. Is this, perhaps, common in Hg I1 (M253) AS generics ? * *Patrick Holland. * On 3/20/2012 10:28 PM, Peter and Connie Bradish wrote: > I assume you are speaking of Rev. Charles Chauncey arrived a few days > before Jan 1, 1698 from Ha(e)rtfordshire where he was born in 1589. > Educated at Westminster School, BA of Trinity College, reproved for > Puritan Teaching, President of Harvard College. Died Feb 19, 1671-2. > > I find it quite interesting that many I haplogroup came to the US by way > of the Puritan movement. That eastern area of England (Puritan > stronghold) was also the area of the Danelaw. Many of our ancestors may > be descendants from those individuals who were "Vikings" and crossed > from the Denmark area and came to live in Britain. > > Connie Bradish > >

-----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] På vegne af Kenneth Nordtvedt Sendt: 20. marts 2012 19:00 Til: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Emne: Re: [yDNAhgI] Haplogroup I1d (L22+) Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. Thank you It looks like L813 and L287 was off not topic, but branch together? Ole ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

DO NOT RESPOND to OFF TOPIC messages on the list. Aaron, List Admin ________________________________ From: Dr. James M. Owston <jowston@mountainstate.edu> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2012, 12:09 Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Off topic Excel question Here you go. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/rotate-data-by-converting-columns-to-rows-or-vice-versa-HP005203138.aspx *James M. Owston, EdD* Dean of Distance Learning Associate Professor of Communication and Media Mountain State University PO Box 9003 Beckley, WV 25802-9003 304-929-1356 800-766-6067, x.1356 On 3/20/2012 2:35 PM, John M Rhodes wrote: > I have a spreadsheet with two long columns of data that i wish to switch to two long rows of data.  How is this done? > > Apologies to Aaron > > John M Rhodes > Sent from my iPhone > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In the I1 and I1L22 projects I can count 7 L813+ (incl. the WTY) and 12 L813-(incl. 3 L22- and 1 P109+). The L813+´s has a interesting variation at 385: 14-14, 14-15, 14-16 and 15-15 and at 464: 11-14-14-16, 12-14-14-16 and 11-14-15-16. All have 29 or 30 at 449. Personally I think that 8 L22* is to small a sample size for L22* not to test L813. It would be quite a coincidence if the STR mutation and the SNP mutation occurred in the same person. Either are some N L813+ or some uN L813-. Ole -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] På vegne af Kenneth Nordtvedt Sendt: 20. marts 2012 05:16 Til: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Emne: Re: [yDNAhgI] Haplogroup I1d (L22+) From: Terry Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:02 PM For L300+ and L813+ the sample size is currently too small. [[4 of 4 L813+ falling within a large and geographically as well as STR defined clade uN2, and never an L813- among the many falling within it as far as I know of, and never an L813+ falling outside, gives very good odds to reach a working conclusion about relationship between L813+ and uN2. KN ]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

DO NOT POST software questions on this list! Aaron ________________________________ From: John M Rhodes <johnmrhodes409@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2012, 11:35 Subject: [yDNAhgI] Off topic Excel question I have a spreadsheet with two long columns of data that i wish to switch to two long rows of data.  How is this done? Apologies to Aaron John M Rhodes

Thanks for the new table, Ken. I found a possible typo in ML 253 for DYS447. You have "14" but perhaps it should be "24". John M Rhodes On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > I have rebuilt in what I hope is a more streamlined (less cluttered) > format the clade modalities in y haplogroup I1. I eventually want to do > this for all y haplogroup I. > > File is “I1modalities.xls” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net and it > is a work in progress. > > I will finish and then update it from time to time as the data comes in. > Only the STRs for which a clade has different modality than > “standard/basic I1*” are indicated. > > 111 STR markers are included. The 68-111 markers are often quite > informative for identifying clades. > > Originally I was going to delay this rebuild until the new z series snps > were all understood with regard to the clades. But FTDNA is surely in no > rush to get the ordered test results out, so I will put out this incomplete > file. > > Interclade node age estimates are entirely different things than clade > tmrca estimates. See “Tree for I1” to get a sense of the interclade node > ages. > > > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" at > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are > periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

yes, thanks. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: John M Rhodes Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:25 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1modalities Thanks for the new table, Ken. I found a possible typo in ML 253 for DYS447. You have "14" but perhaps it should be "24".

Great format Ken. Looking forward to the I2 version. "I have rebuilt in what I hope is a more streamlined (less cluttered) format the clade modalities in y haplogroup I1. I eventually want to do this for all y haplogroup I."

Here you go. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/rotate-data-by-converting-columns-to-rows-or-vice-versa-HP005203138.aspx *James M. Owston, EdD* Dean of Distance Learning Associate Professor of Communication and Media Mountain State University PO Box 9003 Beckley, WV 25802-9003 304-929-1356 800-766-6067, x.1356 On 3/20/2012 2:35 PM, John M Rhodes wrote: > I have a spreadsheet with two long columns of data that i wish to switch to two long rows of data. How is this done? > > Apologies to Aaron > > John M Rhodes > Sent from my iPhone > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Allen, For the main SNPs (P109+, L205+, L258+, L300+, L813+) within I1d (L22+) one can say this: 87% of P109+ people have I1.1101* or I1.11000* as their I1 STR Branch Code. Peak frequency is in Norway/Sweden and Russia respectively. 83% of L205+ people have I1.11001* as their I1 STR Branch Code. Peak frequency is in the Netherlands. 83% of L258+ (and L287+) people have I1.100* as their I1 STR Branch Code. Peak frequency is in Finland. For L300+ and L813+ the sample size is currently too small. Terry On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Allen <KE7IQQ@comcast.net> wrote: > ... > > Maybe Ken or Terry can shed some light on what might be the significance of > the marker value. > > ... >

I have rebuilt in what I hope is a more streamlined (less cluttered) format the clade modalities in y haplogroup I1. I eventually want to do this for all y haplogroup I. File is “I1modalities.xls” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net and it is a work in progress. I will finish and then update it from time to time as the data comes in. Only the STRs for which a clade has different modality than “standard/basic I1*” are indicated. 111 STR markers are included. The 68-111 markers are often quite informative for identifying clades. Originally I was going to delay this rebuild until the new z series snps were all understood with regard to the clades. But FTDNA is surely in no rush to get the ordered test results out, so I will put out this incomplete file. Interclade node age estimates are entirely different things than clade tmrca estimates. See “Tree for I1” to get a sense of the interclade node ages. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.