Is it possible the MRCA for I1 lived more easterly in the north German plain than its present center of gravity? I think there are hints to that effect. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

The 68-111 markers produce a Great Divide in the M223+ sector of the I-Tree. I touched on this yesterday, but only now explored the full extent of it. It reflects the earliest breakup of the M223+ tree which occurred perhaps 7000 or 8000 years ago and most likely in Central Europe on the middle Danube basin? I will call the two parts of M223+ “A” and “B” Below are STRs which systematically differ on the two sides of the Divide. We might call this the “717 Divide”! A B DYS717 16 19 DYS513 12-13 11 DYS504 14 15+ DYS497 15 14 DYS485 13 14 DYS505 12 11 DYS437 14 15 DYS446 11 10- DYS487 12 13 In Group A are clades: L801+, P95+, L623+ In Group B are clades: M284+, Roots, P78+, M223-X I would put L623+ and M223-X closest to the “borderlands” of this Divide if one had to do so. But the shift of modalities on so many modest mutation rate markers indicates to me a very long interval of intervening tree branch line segments between the Groups. There is something of a geographical split between Group A and Group B I believe, but it is subtle, and I will outline what I see in a later message. So now we have this Z186 snp being tested. Unfortunately most of the orders and close to all of the reported Z186+ results have been for L801+ haplotypes, so we are piling up lots of redundant information. I believe the focus of further Z186 testing should be on the borderlands between Group A and Group B in order to see how this snp falls relative to the divide. This means that L623+ and M223-X haplotypes should be tested, and any L801+ haplotypes which look like haplotype outliers or find their DYS532 value deviating up from the norm of 9 should test for Z186. What we want now is to see if there are any L801- Z186+; the alternative L801+ Z186+ seem now to be much less likely. We can say right now that roughly Z186 will be derived in Group A and ancestral in Group B --- but where is the dividing line for this snp? If one compares the above 9 STRs with their modalities in L38+ haplogroup, nearest neighbor to M223+, eight of the 9 STR modalities in L38+ go with Group B which certainly looks to be the older of A and B. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

I have updated the Y-DNA Haplogroup I1 (M253+) SNP character matrices, as of last night: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/General/SNP-maxout-HgI1.html If you want me to keep this page updated, please notify me of any new Hg I1 SNP test results returned after 3/22. And if you are Haplogroup I1 and haven't joined the Hg I1 project, please do: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/ Diana

As we pile up more and more Z186+ looking more and more like almost phyloequivalent to L801+, a very large chasm in old M223* has shown up in the 68-111 marker extensions to M223+ haplotypes. It suggests where to focus testing on Z186+ to make it a possibly more interesting snp. L801+ Z186+ is almost identical to the DYS532 = 9 young population from Continental1 and Continental2. There are a few borderline haplotypes who should be tested for Z186+: Rasey, Macaulay, Abbot, Vannoy, Hausman. Their DYS532 values have strayed upward to 10 and 11. But they keep the DYS717 = 16 and DYS485 = 13 values of the L801+ Z186+ horde found so far. But there is a fascinating population of “old” types of Continental haplotypes which find their DYS717 values shot up to 19 repeats; and their DYS485 = 14. These haplotypes are L801-; some of them are L623+ but some are L623- and still classified as M223* Some come from clades in the past called M223-X which always showed ambivalence as to whether closer to Continental or Roots. Surnames of this population include: Hollier Bartels Hofstee Spearing Valiaminov Rawlings Morgan Most of the above are found in tight clusters; the rest of said clusters will probably follow their snp outcomes. So we have a jump of 3 repeats on DYS717, separating the above from “young” L801+ Z186+ people! Who else has 19 at DYS717 and 14 at DYS485 as these oddies do? Standard Roots M223+, and M284+ P78+ division of M223+ is closer to this latter sector as well, having 18 at DYS717 and 14 at DYS485. It is the old breakup of M223+ that we do not yet understand as well as we should. I think Z186+ should be focused in coming orders on the maverick and borderline populations I have mentioned above. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

I have just updated the Hg I1 character matrix: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/General/SNP-maxout-HgI1.html#Z58 and we don't yet have anyone, yet, at least not anyone who is a member of the Hg I1 project. That is, we don't even have someone who is Z58+/Z59-/Z138-/Z139-, yet, much less one who has also tested DF29. Diana > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:41 PM > > Does anyone know of the key but elusive Z58+ but Z59- Z138-/Z139- > person? They should be testing for DF29.

I have also read that DF29 is supposedly upstream of Z58, Z63, and L22 based on the 1000genomes results. If true, then isn't the best place to look for interesting DF29 results in the group of Z58-, Z63-, L22-, M227- people, to see if DF29 will split them? I am aware that at least one such person, and probably others, are testing their DF29 status from that group. Those are the DF29 results to look out for from the Z58-, Z63-, L22-, M227- people. Any Z58+ person would automatically have to be DF29+ if the SNP D29 is truly upstream of Z58. But maybe you are saying we need to confirm that DF29 is really upstream of Z58? Terry On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:34 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Salles Torres > > DF29 is supposedly upstream from Z58, Z63 and L22. We have many DF29 tests > on order for the latter two branches, so I think we should wait for those > results first before encouraging further testing for individuals who are > Z58+. > > Aaron Torres > > [[ Considering all the wholesale snp tests you have encouraged, this > message > is a surprise. > > I have been focusing on one special place in the tree which all the other > DF29 tests under the Sun would not help us, I believe. > > Question 1: Is there any person confirmed Z58+ but negative for Z59 and > Z138/or/Z139? I think such people are extremely rare or not yet seen. > > Question 2: That seems the only kind of person who could put the DF29 > definitely upstream of Z58 --- as long as we still wait to position L22 > relative to DF29. KN ]] > > >

I suspect FTDNA now wants people tested elsewhere to transfer in their results: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/General/FAQs.html#transfer instead of uploading to Ysearch, so I'd be surprised if Ysearch is ever updated. I, for one, am glad to be able to encourage people to transfer in. It's makes including their results easier for us FTDNA project admins, and the clients are better off in the long run, IMO. Diana > From: Bill Hawk > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 2:28 PM > > How hard can it be to bump Ysearch up to 111? It > is already 100, isn't it? I would also be good to > fix the printable certificate PDF's to include > 111. Any word when that will be done, FTDNA people? > Bill Hawk

> From: Behalf Of Lplantagenet > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 9:23 AM > > Thank you--I'm always skeptical when I don't see any data, and the > tree didn't come directly from 1000 Genomes anyway. It shows DF29 > upstream of M21,M227, M507, L22, Z58, Z63, as well as the still > elusive Z131. > > Ken is General in charge of the I1 division at FTDNA and the least I > can do is serve as one of his Lieutenants to recruit men from my > family's AS7E subgroup... > <snip> Ken is hardly "in charge of the I1 division at FTDNA." As far as I know, Dr. Thomas Krahn http://www.familytreedna.com/about.aspx is the one in charge of the haplotree, among other things: http://ytree.ftdna.com/ Ken is one of the co-admins for the Haplogroup I1 project: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx No one "owns" any part of this research. It's a cooperative effort. Diana

Oops oh well. I'll have ONE more cup of coffee next time before I order! "DF29 is supposedly upstream from Z58, Z63 and L22. We have many DF29 tests on order for the latter two branches" -----Original Message----- From: Carole [mailto:carole55066@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 4:25 AM To: 'y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results I1d2 / I-L205 Kit 57021/YSearch 84U3S ordered DF29... Could not tell if any other L22+ had!?! -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:04 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Yes, I agree. Or I guess finding L22+ as DF29+ will do, too. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: G. Magoon Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:32 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Once a DF29+ result comes back for a Z63+ individual, this won't be an issue On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Is not 12459 in AS3 and therefore also Z59+ and Z382+ ? > > One other df29+ is also Z138+ Z139+ as well as Z58+ > > So we need more upstream results on the Z58+ portion of the tree to > pin this branch down. > > Maybe a Z58+ Z59- Z138- could be df29- ??? > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See: > "Tree for I1" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are > periodically updated as new information is obtained. > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Salles Torres > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:29 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Cc: I1-Z58andZ63@yahoogroups.com.au ; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results > > We got our first DF29 results last night: > > Kit#12479 is DF29+. He is in the Z58 branch of the tree. > > Let's wait to see how other I1 branches will do with regards to this SNP: > > http://bit.ly/Z58Z63ClassicResults > > Aaron Torres > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I1d2 / I-L205 Kit 57021/YSearch 84U3S ordered DF29... Could not tell if any other L22+ had!?! -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:04 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Yes, I agree. Or I guess finding L22+ as DF29+ will do, too. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: G. Magoon Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:32 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Once a DF29+ result comes back for a Z63+ individual, this won't be an issue On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Is not 12459 in AS3 and therefore also Z59+ and Z382+ ? > > One other df29+ is also Z138+ Z139+ as well as Z58+ > > So we need more upstream results on the Z58+ portion of the tree to > pin this branch down. > > Maybe a Z58+ Z59- Z138- could be df29- ??? > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See: > "Tree for I1" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are > periodically updated as new information is obtained. > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Salles Torres > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:29 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Cc: I1-Z58andZ63@yahoogroups.com.au ; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results > > We got our first DF29 results last night: > > Kit#12479 is DF29+. He is in the Z58 branch of the tree. > > Let's wait to see how other I1 branches will do with regards to this SNP: > > http://bit.ly/Z58Z63ClassicResults > > Aaron Torres > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As expected: Z382- End of the road so far? Wim Y-search: QG86J FTdna: N6262 -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Wim Callewaert [mailto:callmewimpy@telenet.be] Verzonden: woensdag 21 maart 2012 11:55 Aan: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Onderwerp: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1modalities Looking at these modalities, I expect to be Z382- Any idea about the TMRCA age of Z59+?

Z58 and Z63 are parallel. When we have the DF29 results from a Z63 person, and if the Z63 person tests positive for DF29 as is expected, then DF29 will be definitely placed upstream from Z58, as is expected as well. No point in testing any additional Z58 haplotype for DF29 at this point, no matter how unusual it may be. Part of my job as a project administrator is to keep members up-to-date with discoveries and to make recommendations. Project members are grown adults and are responsible for their own decisions. In other words, they spend their money how they wish. It is not up to me or you to tell them what to do [or not to do] with their money. All we can do is make recommendations. I am very pleased with the advances we have made in the I2b1/M223 project this past year, for instance, and I believe the project members are as well. We completely reconfigured the I2b1/M223 tree, which makes their genealogical research much easier. This progress is a result of actual testing, not guesstimation. Thanks, Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:34 PM From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres DF29 is supposedly upstream from Z58, Z63 and L22. We have many DF29 tests on order for the latter two branches, so I think we should wait for those results first before encouraging further testing for individuals who are Z58+. Aaron Torres [[ Considering all the wholesale snp tests you have encouraged, this message is a surprise. I have been focusing on one special place in the tree which all the other DF29 tests under the Sun would not help us, I believe. Question 1:  Is there any person confirmed Z58+ but negative for Z59 and Z138/or/Z139?  I think such people are extremely rare or not yet seen. Question 2:  That seems the only kind of person who could put the DF29 definitely upstream of Z58 --- as long as we still wait to position L22 relative to DF29.  KN ]]

Once a DF29+ result comes back for a Z63+ individual, this won't be an issue On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Is not 12459 in AS3 and therefore also Z59+ and Z382+ ? > > One other df29+ is also Z138+ Z139+ as well as Z58+ > > So we need more upstream results on the Z58+ portion of the tree to pin > this > branch down. > > Maybe a Z58+ Z59- Z138- could be df29- ??? > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See: > "Tree for I1" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically > updated as new information is obtained. > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Salles Torres > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:29 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Cc: I1-Z58andZ63@yahoogroups.com.au ; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results > > We got our first DF29 results last night: > > Kit#12479 is DF29+. He is in the Z58 branch of the tree. > > Let's wait to see how other I1 branches will do with regards to this SNP: > > http://bit.ly/Z58Z63ClassicResults > > Aaron Torres > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yes, I agree. Or I guess finding L22+ as DF29+ will do, too. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: G. Magoon Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:32 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Once a DF29+ result comes back for a Z63+ individual, this won't be an issue On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > Is not 12459 in AS3 and therefore also Z59+ and Z382+ ? > > One other df29+ is also Z138+ Z139+ as well as Z58+ > > So we need more upstream results on the Z58+ portion of the tree to pin > this > branch down. > > Maybe a Z58+ Z59- Z138- could be df29- ??? > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See: > "Tree for I1" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are > periodically > updated as new information is obtained. > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Salles Torres > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:29 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Cc: I1-Z58andZ63@yahoogroups.com.au ; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results > > We got our first DF29 results last night: > > Kit#12479 is DF29+. He is in the Z58 branch of the tree. > > Let's wait to see how other I1 branches will do with regards to this SNP: > > http://bit.ly/Z58Z63ClassicResults > > Aaron Torres > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dora, As with the Bradford example, try searching for RICE as follows http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Key=RICE The first two matches are for people with Edmund Rice as a claimed ancestor, but they have less than 67-markers tested. Try instead the fourth link down to get this output: http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=H4BBT By clicking on the H4BBT link in that output you will see that the 67-markers are described as a "composite reconstructed haplotype of Edmund Rice himself". The geographic frequency map that is shown is just for locations of the predicted L22+ ancestry. But the Branch Code I1.1100001* is likely associated with P109+. Not a lot of information found in this case. But Edmund Rice might be P109+ based on the claimed "reconstructed" haplotype that was found by the tool. If he is not that then would fall back to L22+. Terry PS. I have changed the subject heading to reflect the actual topic of discussion. On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@yahoo.com> wrote: > My Edmund Rice line was also from Bury St. Edmond. The family group is > Norse I1, but if they've had any SNP testing done I don't yet know > it. I think he came from Hertsfordshire (not very far away) with a > small group of families from that village, and it didn't have much to do > with Hooker and Shepard. > > But I have alot of Puritan ancestors, including those led by Shepard and > Hooker, and this is the first I've heard of a roundup in Suffolk and > Norfolk. I thought that Archbishop Laud's antics drove alot of people > from East Anglia, and that some entire large groups, led by their > clergy, travelled together. > > I'll always read more about those people, if you've got any reading > material on this particular roundup. > > Dora > > On 3/19/2012 7:03 AM, Peter and Connie Bradish wrote: > > FYI > > Peter Bradish is I1d1 and is a direct male descendant of Robert Bradish > > who arrived in Cambridge, Mass in 1634. Robert Bradish was a member of > > the Puritan groups led by Rev Thomas Hooker and Thomas Shepard. These > > Puritans brought families rather than single individuals to develop a > > colony and canvased Suffolk and Norfolk in England for families to come > > to America. Robert Bradish and his family were from Bury St Edmunds in > > Suffolk. The house Robert Bradish had in Cambridge was directly across > > from the house of the Rev Thomas Shepard. This land is now part of > > Harvard University. Bradish family members are buried in the Old Burying > > Ground in Harvard Square. > > > > Connie Bradish > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Go to the tool at http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi and enter in the first four letters (in this case BRAD) of the name of the person of interest. You will get this output http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Key=BRAD On that list you will see Governor William Bradford appearing as the claimed ancestor of two people. The second person has 67-markers tested, click on that link and you will get this: http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=57360 >From there you will see that Bradford's Branch Code is I1.0000000011*. People with close Branch Code's include a Whatley and a Holmes. Just as you have in your list. If you want to know more about those two people, click on their link. Next, note that the SNP prediction includes the suggestion either of Z63 or as completely different possibility Z59. However, we can see as prior knowledge the SNP status of the predicted relative named Whatley. That relative is Z63+. Hence the tool would predict Governor William Bradford, and his male descendants, would most likely be Z63+. Finally, the geographic frequency map is shown for the enclosing Branch Code of I1.00000000*. If we ignore Russia, then Belgium and then France might be the location of distant ancestry (as a crude guess). Presumably, Bradfords' ancestors lived in England before ending up in Plymouth. Perhaps his ancestors were in Belgium or France a thousand years ago - I don't know. Took me a few minutes to learn all that about Governor Bradford and his possible descendants and ancestors. I think this is a good illustration of how to use the tool, and if I were interested in Bradford it would give me some leads to follow up on elsewhere. Terry On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See: > "Tree for I1" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically > updated as new information is obtained. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith > > Who are the other surnames? And their emigrant > ancestry, if they all came to the colonial U.S.? > > [[Surnames in this clade other than Bradford are Bretton, Whatley, Lake, > Holmes, Laird, Gray, Tyner, plus two from smgf with surnames not given. > They did not necessarily join Bradford in going to New England. KN ]] > >

I thought it was a closer shot than L592. Jim *James M. Owston, EdD* Dean of Distance Learning Associate Professor of Communication and Media Mountain State University PO Box 9003 Beckley, WV 25802-9003 304-929-1356 800-766-6067, x.1356 On 3/22/2012 1:54 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > But not so cheap as to put money on the L338 long, long shot. > > Only thing we are certain of is more taxes and public spending. > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > See: > "Tree for I1" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically > updated as new information is obtained. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr. James M. Owston > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:44 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Ordered SNPs > > Since I am in the 14/22 complex, I have pretty good idea to which SNPs > will shake out, so I skipped over some to get to the heart of the matter > in ordering these last night. Plus, I am cheap. > > I ordered both Z140 and L338. I anticipate L338 will be negative, but > cannot be certain. > > Plus, I ordered DF29 to add to the body of knowledge about this SNP. > > Jim > >

Brilliant Terry, many thanks for all your efforts on our behalf. Patrick Holland. On 3/22/2012 11:58 AM, Terry wrote: > Go to the tool at > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi > and enter in the first four letters (in this case BRAD) of the name of the > person of interest. > > You will get this output > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Key=BRAD > > On that list you will see Governor William Bradford appearing as the > claimed ancestor of two people. The second person has 67-markers tested, > click on that link and you will get this: > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=57360 > > > From there you will see that Bradford's Branch Code is I1.0000000011*. > People with close Branch Code's include a Whatley and a Holmes. Just as you > have in your list. If you want to know more about those two people, click > on their link. > > Next, note that the SNP prediction includes the suggestion either of Z63 or > as completely different possibility Z59. However, we can see as prior > knowledge the SNP status of the predicted relative named Whatley. That > relative is Z63+. > > Hence the tool would predict Governor William Bradford, and his male > descendants, would most likely be Z63+. > > Finally, the geographic frequency map is shown for the enclosing Branch > Code of I1.00000000*. If we ignore Russia, then Belgium and then France > might be the location of distant ancestry (as a crude guess). Presumably, > Bradfords' ancestors lived in England before ending up in Plymouth. Perhaps > his ancestors were in Belgium or France a thousand years ago - I don't know. > > Took me a few minutes to learn all that about Governor Bradford and his > possible descendants and ancestors. I think this is a good illustration of > how to use the tool, and if I were interested in Bradford it would give me > some leads to follow up on elsewhere. >

Ken What about Z58+and Z63-, Z131- Mel In a message dated 3/22/2012 1:41:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, knordtvedt@bresnan.net writes: Does anyone know of the key but elusive Z58+ but Z59- Z138-/Z139- person? They should be testing for DF29. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Since I am in the 14/22 complex, I have pretty good idea to which SNPs will shake out, so I skipped over some to get to the heart of the matter in ordering these last night. Plus, I am cheap. I ordered both Z140 and L338. I anticipate L338 will be negative, but cannot be certain. Plus, I ordered DF29 to add to the body of knowledge about this SNP. Jim -- *James M. Owston, EdD* Dean of Distance Learning Associate Professor of Communication and Media Mountain State University PO Box 9003 Beckley, WV 25802-9003 304-929-1356 800-766-6067, x.1356