Ken, L1340 is found in all I1. It is shown as phyloequivalent to M253 in the FTDNA draft tree: http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=39157351 I also verified all the available I1 results in WTY about one month ago. John O'Grady > > I found a month old message from the lab saying they just overlooked this > snp in a number of previous wtys. Because it is a deletion, they said, it > has to be handled "manually" with increased chance of human error. > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt

I wouldn't bother at this time. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Demeester Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp Hi, Ken and others. Should kit 196787 test for this SNP or any other? Thanks. Deb From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp OOOPs. It seems I have a message from FTDNA lab about the deletion mutation called L1340. It was overlooked in earlier WTYs because deletions have to be handled differently in the lab. So it is not unique, apparently, to I1d-13, but seen in I1xL22 as well. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp Yes, P109+ is about as old as the basic L22+ clade. The only implied negative I can find for L1340 is the WTY person from L813+ I1-uN clade - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:55 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp Is it worthwhile for someone I-P109 to test for L1340? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken, I notice that our Johnstons are in a branch defined as: M223, P219, P220, P221, P222, P223, L34, L36, L59, L622, L800, L1196, Z77, L1316   Any idea why the SNPs L1290 and L1317 do not appear anywhere (at least that I've been able to find)?  These 2 SNPs were in Chirstopher Johnston's WTY test - new SNPs.   When did Z77 appear?  I may have lost track of it, but I don't seem to recall it.   Thanks,   Cliff. ________________________________

Ken, Julie etal, I have ordered Z2535 and Z2538 . Hope this helps further the cause. Bill Hawk, kit # 117095

I'm not sure; right now we have a verbal comment from the lab, but no public results. There have been NO L1340 tests ordered. I'm probably going to do one to see what happens in I1xL22. So If I get a + result for my test, does that mean deletion is there? I won't know unless I bug the lab with an inquiry, as they typically do not give the actual test result to customers, just their inferred + or - What are they going to do when snp back mutations become more seen in the tree? - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:31 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp So Kenneth, does that mean people should not test for it as all L22 and downstream will be derived? Please clarify. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken, I have just ordered snp L1340 for L22+ P109+ kit 177090 FTDNA Gary > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:03:09 -0700 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp > > Yes, P109+ is about as old as the basic L22+ clade. > The only implied negative I can find for L1340 is the WTY person from L813+ > I1-uN clade > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > See: > "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" > "Tree for I1 Z58+" > "Tree for I1d L22+" > "Tree for M223 x Z161" > "Tree for M223+ Z161+" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "The I1 modalities" > "The M223+ Modalities" > > > at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:55 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp > > Is it worthwhile for someone I-P109 to test for L1340? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Another snp L1340 test ordered from an "L22+ P109+" ....... Hilliard Wood FTDNA kit # B1614

OOOPs. It seems I have a message from FTDNA lab about the deletion mutation called L1340. It was overlooked in earlier WTYs because deletions have to be handled differently in the lab. So it is not unique, apparently, to I1d-13, but seen in I1xL22 as well. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp Yes, P109+ is about as old as the basic L22+ clade. The only implied negative I can find for L1340 is the WTY person from L813+ I1-uN clade - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:55 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp Is it worthwhile for someone I-P109 to test for L1340? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, P109+ is about as old as the basic L22+ clade. The only implied negative I can find for L1340 is the WTY person from L813+ I1-uN clade - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:55 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp Is it worthwhile for someone I-P109 to test for L1340? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From your haplotype I agree that you are not of the I1d-13 clade. I checked the next earlier L22+ person who did a WTY; he is of the L813+ uN clade of L22+. He had coverage of the L1340 site but showed no mutation. But it would be worthwhile for some L22+ to do the regular individual snp test at FTDNA for this snp. So I would encourage you to do so. You look like basic I1d L22+ Of course we also want some I1d-13 clade to test for L1340 to check whether the snp is private-like or covers all or good part of the clade. I especially urge some of those other Russian members to do the test. The discovering dna for L1340 was from Russia. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Phillip Peterson Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:42 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Overlooked L22+ subhaplogroup with available snp I expanded my markers to 111 (#236407), but I believe I remain in the I1-N haplotype. I'll happily test L1340 if you think it'll be useful as a control. On Dec 28, 2012, at 6:32 PM, "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <[email protected]> wrote: > Some time ago I isolated a very novel clade of L22+ which looks like it > branched away from bulk of the tree quite early. It is called I1d-13 in > honor of the modal 13 at DYS392. But it has many other unique STR values. > > See “The I1 modalities” for the full set of identifiers. > > I today noticed that one member of the clade did a WTY and was found to > have a new snp --- L1340. I believe it is a deletion type of mutation. > Also, it seems no one else has since done a L1340 test. > > I recommend members of this clade I1d-13 test for L1340, and that a few > basic L22+ I1d also do so in order to see if the L1340+ is confined to the > I1d-13 clade. > > See “Tree for I1dL22+” for the estimated very early location of the node > from which the I1d-13 branch line emerges. > > Membership of the clade stretches from Russia west to Scotland, catching > Scandinavia and Germany in between. > > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > See: > "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" > "Tree for I1 Z58+" > "Tree for I1d L22+" > "Tree for M223 x Z161" > "Tree for M223+ Z161+" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "The I1 modalities" > "The M223+ Modalities" > > > at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Some time ago I isolated a very novel clade of L22+ which looks like it branched away from bulk of the tree quite early. It is called I1d-13 in honor of the modal 13 at DYS392. But it has many other unique STR values. See “The I1 modalities” for the full set of identifiers. I today noticed that one member of the clade did a WTY and was found to have a new snp --- L1340. I believe it is a deletion type of mutation. Also, it seems no one else has since done a L1340 test. I recommend members of this clade I1d-13 test for L1340, and that a few basic L22+ I1d also do so in order to see if the L1340+ is confined to the I1d-13 clade. See “Tree for I1dL22+” for the estimated very early location of the node from which the I1d-13 branch line emerges. Membership of the clade stretches from Russia west to Scotland, catching Scandinavia and Germany in between. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

I don't see any recent changes in the I-P37.2 part of the tree, are there changes in other parts of haplogroup I? Bernie

There is a neglected snp which sneaked into the FTDNA catalog Z2894. And there is a neglected clade AS1015 which needs key snp tests. AS1015 is Z382- Z59+ Z60- That’s a good fit with snp Z2894 which is presently phyloequivalent to Z60 but very minimal testing. See “Tree for I1 Z58+” Z2894 also has another name: CTS8647 It is in Geno 2 tests. But it can be purchased for a few bucks from FTDNA under Z2894 name. The key identifying STRs for knowing you are in AS1015 clade are: 14 at DYS444 with 15 at DYS446, 10 at DYS537, and 10 at DYS640 in the 38-67 set of markers. In the first 37 markers are the weaker identifiers 29 at DYS389ii, 11 at DYS460, and 15 at DYS456 If you are AS1015, test for Z2894, Z2040, and Z2041. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

Poor clade AS10; it just can’t get any takers for snp tests. I think it is Z138+? One test by an outlier says so. But is it Z2541? We have this perfectly good downstream snp for that sector. Look at the “I1 modalities” excel sheet. AS10 has the 13 at DYS487 and 10 at DYS572. It’s core also has 14 at DYS446. If you have 111 markers look for 17 at DYS510 and 13 at DYS643. AS10 has been overlooked for months in the testing of new snps. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

Additions here and there; not changes. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Cullen Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] FTDNA Y-tree draft I don't see any recent changes in the I-P37.2 part of the tree, are there changes in other parts of haplogroup I? Bernie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Do you know if Dr Krahn wants feedback on glitches or worse in the draft tree? He is busy and may not want feedback; I don't know. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:12 AM To: genealogy-dna ; y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] FTDNA Y-tree draft The draft for FTDNA's Y-tree is up. http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=root It can take a while to load on some systems. Wayne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kit # 179925. If this means that L1275 tags AS7E and that everyone else in DF29*, with the possible exception of generics attached to AS7E, is likely to be negative, then where do we go from here with research for AS7E and other DF29* subgroups ( especially I1P and AS4)? Lindsey

Look at the Z138/Z139 sector of the “Tree for I1 Z58+” at link below. You will see the Z138+ sector has quite a few clades which are distinct and with long ancestral lines back to nodes separating themselves from each other (those two attributes go together!) The snp Z2541 splits the Z138 sector; AS2 and AS1010.2 have each had a negative result for Z2541. But clade I1-ESc13 has had two positive results, and a generic Z138+ with 487 = 13 also is positive. Note that four more clades have had no test results, although one or two are in the pipeline. We need Z2541 tests for clades AS1221, AS1414, AS10910, and especially AS10. We can really not intelligently guess what those clades are for this snp simply from the derived nature of I1-ESc13 clade and one derived generic. “The I1 modalities” file will help you determine whether you belong to one of these named clades. If you are a generic with DYS487 = 13, you might also consider Z2541 for testing. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

But still not ESC 13 right ? Probably a new branch ? On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]>wrote: > While I have you designated generic, you are a DYS487 = 13 generic which I > believe means your branch line is close to that for I1-ESc13 which has come > up with two Z2541+ already. > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > See: > "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" > "Tree for I1 Z58+" > "Tree for I1d L22+" > "Tree for M223 x Z161" > "Tree for M223+ Z161+" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "The I1 modalities" > "The M223+ Modalities" > > > at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Bardy > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New Update - Z58 et al Surname SNP Tree > > Julie, kit 186577 (myself) is z2541+ > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 5411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: [email protected] Brasil SP: (11) 3230-1237 Brasil RJ : (21) 4042-1458

Julie, kit 186577 (myself) is z2541+ On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Bill Hawk <[email protected]> wrote: > Julie etal, > I signed up for Z2539, which appears to have been a mistake for its > position > relative to Z140/Z141. Should I do Z2535, or go for Z2536-8? What would be > the most useful course to take? > Bill Hawk, kit #117095 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julie Frame Falk > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:01 AM > To: I1-Z58andZ63 Project ; Y-DNA Haplogroup I > Subject: [yDNAhgI] New Update - Z58 et al Surname SNP Tree > > Dear Lists > > Herewith link to new Z58 et al. Surname SNP Tree which will replace the Dec > 16 version. > > https://www.box.com/s/vn83q2dksudnpokagilg > > ........ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ANTONIO BARDY FLORIDA CONNEXION PROPERTIES 5411 International Drive Orlando, FL 32819 Tel: 407-535-3639 Fax: 321-251-5599 E-mail: [email protected] Brasil SP: (11) 3230-1237 Brasil RJ : (21) 4042-1458