If L1439 site is covered? 10 million is just a minority fraction of the range that known snps are found at in the y chromosome. I have asked if anyone knows what sites are covered by BigY but so far have gotten no answer. Let's hope the BigY results are eventually delivered to us. I see another delay today in their "expected" date. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Paul Stone Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I Digest, Vol 9, Issue 2 I presume we will have the data to place L1439 with the many Z63 Big Y tests once complete, so I have not pushed many individual SNP tests of late. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Great! But please be certain you order L1439, not L1429!!! I realize this was probably a typo, but... Diana > From: Robert Dozier > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:37 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > Thanks, I will order L1429 for my FTDNA kit # 283178 > > Robert

P.S. > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:56 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > Keith, > > Yes, please do test L1439. The results of a L1439 test for my Z58+ (L592+) > cousin have just returned, and he is L1439+. This bumps L1439 up from > probably being equivalent to or upstream of CTS6364, to probably being > equivalent to or upstream of DF29. <snip> And, yes, William Hartley had figured this out already. It just didn't sink in until my cousin tested it. Diana

Thanks, I will order L1429 for my FTDNA kit # 283178 Robert On Wednesday, January 1, 2014, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > L1439 is not on the Geno chip. I believe L1439 was discovered too recently > to have been available when they froze the content of the Geno2 chip. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:29 PM > To: [email protected] <javascript:;> > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > I don't know for certain, but I doubt it. If it were part of Geno 2.0 and > it's > upstream or equivalent to DF29, then we'd have a great many positives, yet > there > are only a few. > > I believe it was discovered in a WTY, so FTDNA is offering it a la carte. > Beyond that, I don't know. > > Diana > > > > From: Robert Dozier > > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 4:25 PM > > To: [email protected] <javascript:;> > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > > > I'm Z131+ (kit 283178) and waiting on geno 2 results. Is L1429 a part of > > Geno 2? > > > > Robert > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I don't know for certain, but I doubt it. If it were part of Geno 2.0 and it's upstream or equivalent to DF29, then we'd have a great many positives, yet there are only a few. I believe it was discovered in a WTY, so FTDNA is offering it a la carte. Beyond that, I don't know. Diana > From: Robert Dozier > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 4:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > I'm Z131+ (kit 283178) and waiting on geno 2 results. Is L1429 a part of > Geno 2? > > Robert

I meant is L1439 apart of Geno 2? On Wednesday, January 1, 2014, Robert Dozier wrote: > I'm Z131+ (kit 283178) and waiting on geno 2 results. Is L1429 a part of > Geno 2? > > Robert > > On Wednesday, January 1, 2014, Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote: > >> Keith, >> >> Yes, please do test L1439. The results of a L1439 test for my Z58+ >> (L592+) cousin have just returned, and he is L1439+. This bumps L1439 up >> from probably being equivalent to or upstream of CTS6364, to probably being >> equivalent to or upstream of DF29. Your result, if positive, will further >> confirm it. We would then only need the PF49+'s, as the last of the >> next-level downstream subclades of DF29, to test L1439. >> http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 >> >> We could take an even bigger step if one of our Z131+ individuals would >> test L1439. >> >> I'm currently having one of my Hg I2 cousins test L1439. If he's >> positive, then we can stop trying to fix its position in Hg I1. If he's >> negative, then we need to press our five root M253* individuals to take it. >> http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* >> >> Diana >> http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_haplotree.html >> >> >> > From: K S Harris >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 2:13 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable >> > >> > Happy 2014 Ken, >> > >> > This is what FTDNA tells me: >> > >> > Your Haplogroup Tests Taken >> > I-M253 DF29+, L1237+, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+, CTS7416-, >> L1243-, L22-, >> > L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- >> > >> > Since I'm Z63+, presumably I could usefully add the L1439 order? >> > >> > Thx, >> > Keith >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

L1439 is not on the Geno chip. I believe L1439 was discovered too recently to have been available when they froze the content of the Geno2 chip. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable I don't know for certain, but I doubt it. If it were part of Geno 2.0 and it's upstream or equivalent to DF29, then we'd have a great many positives, yet there are only a few. I believe it was discovered in a WTY, so FTDNA is offering it a la carte. Beyond that, I don't know. Diana > From: Robert Dozier > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 4:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > I'm Z131+ (kit 283178) and waiting on geno 2 results. Is L1429 a part of > Geno 2? > > Robert ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm Z131+ (kit 283178) and waiting on geno 2 results. Is L1429 a part of Geno 2? Robert On Wednesday, January 1, 2014, Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote: > Keith, > > Yes, please do test L1439. The results of a L1439 test for my Z58+ > (L592+) cousin have just returned, and he is L1439+. This bumps L1439 up > from probably being equivalent to or upstream of CTS6364, to probably being > equivalent to or upstream of DF29. Your result, if positive, will further > confirm it. We would then only need the PF49+'s, as the last of the > next-level downstream subclades of DF29, to test L1439. > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 > > We could take an even bigger step if one of our Z131+ individuals would > test L1439. > > I'm currently having one of my Hg I2 cousins test L1439. If he's > positive, then we can stop trying to fix its position in Hg I1. If he's > negative, then we need to press our five root M253* individuals to take it. > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* > > Diana > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_haplotree.html > > > > From: K S Harris > > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 2:13 PM > > To: [email protected] <javascript:;> > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > > > Happy 2014 Ken, > > > > This is what FTDNA tells me: > > > > Your Haplogroup Tests Taken > > I-M253 DF29+, L1237+, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+, CTS7416-, L1243-, > L22-, > > L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- > > > > Since I'm Z63+, presumably I could usefully add the L1439 order? > > > > Thx, > > Keith > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Keith, Yes, please do test L1439. The results of a L1439 test for my Z58+ (L592+) cousin have just returned, and he is L1439+. This bumps L1439 up from probably being equivalent to or upstream of CTS6364, to probably being equivalent to or upstream of DF29. Your result, if positive, will further confirm it. We would then only need the PF49+'s, as the last of the next-level downstream subclades of DF29, to test L1439. http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 We could take an even bigger step if one of our Z131+ individuals would test L1439. I'm currently having one of my Hg I2 cousins test L1439. If he's positive, then we can stop trying to fix its position in Hg I1. If he's negative, then we need to press our five root M253* individuals to take it. http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* Diana http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_haplotree.html > From: K S Harris > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 2:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > Happy 2014 Ken, > > This is what FTDNA tells me: > > Your Haplogroup Tests Taken > I-M253 DF29+, L1237+, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+, CTS7416-, L1243-, L22-, > L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- > > Since I'm Z63+, presumably I could usefully add the L1439 order? > > Thx, > Keith

Absolutely. And you'd add much knowledge to the tree, especially if you came out L1439- All the best for 2014 to you. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: K S Harris Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 12:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable Happy 2014 Ken, This is what FTDNA tells me: Your Haplogroup Tests Taken I-M253 DF29+, L1237+, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+, CTS7416-, L1243-, L22-, L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- Since I'm Z63+, presumably I could usefully add the L1439 order? Thx, Keith -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable There are no tests pending in the I1 project for L1439 from someone in the Z63+ haplogroup. After the many discussions people had about “where” or “how far upstream” in the I1 tree is L1439, it is hard to believe there are no orders. Maybe someone from outside the I1 project and Z63+ has ordered L1439? I notice FTDNA has slipped the expected time of BigY results again by a couple weeks. Speaking of the Big Y, FTDNA indicated they are covering 10 millions site on the Y. Did they state which 10 million sites they were covering, such as beginning position[s] and end position[s]. There is a reason why this information would be useful to have right now, but I won’t get into it this morning. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are no tests pending in the I1 project for L1439 from someone in the Z63+ haplogroup. After the many discussions people had about “where” or “how far upstream” in the I1 tree is L1439, it is hard to believe there are no orders. Maybe someone from outside the I1 project and Z63+ has ordered L1439? I notice FTDNA has slipped the expected time of BigY results again by a couple weeks. Speaking of the Big Y, FTDNA indicated they are covering 10 millions site on the Y. Did they state which 10 million sites they were covering, such as beginning position[s] and end position[s]. There is a reason why this information would be useful to have right now, but I won’t get into it this morning. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

Happy 2014 Ken, This is what FTDNA tells me: Your Haplogroup Tests Taken I-M253 DF29+, L1237+, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+, CTS7416-, L1243-, L22-, L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- Since I'm Z63+, presumably I could usefully add the L1439 order? Thx, Keith -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable There are no tests pending in the I1 project for L1439 from someone in the Z63+ haplogroup. After the many discussions people had about “where” or “how far upstream” in the I1 tree is L1439, it is hard to believe there are no orders. Maybe someone from outside the I1 project and Z63+ has ordered L1439? I notice FTDNA has slipped the expected time of BigY results again by a couple weeks. Speaking of the Big Y, FTDNA indicated they are covering 10 millions site on the Y. Did they state which 10 million sites they were covering, such as beginning position[s] and end position[s]. There is a reason why this information would be useful to have right now, but I won’t get into it this morning. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm not sure Kenneth. If you remember, another I-M223 Project member sponsored those SNP tests and we were lucky to have the owner join the Project. I have already posted a number of reminders were members to upgrade their markers before the sale ends. I'm afraid it is a bit like trying to get a kangaroo to walk/jump backwards.

Kit 40553 is also expecting results for L623 and L147 about 2nd January.

I just ordered SNP L205, beginning my process of eliminating the known suggested SNP testing pathways for L22. Next on my list will be L287, then L300, then L813. I already know that several of my closest STR matches are P109 negative, so will probably skip that one. Any other relevant suggestions would be appreciated. Terry White Kit# 177950 (L22 NuN14) "The little light fades the immense and diaphanous shadows ..." Walt Whitman, from *Song of Myself*, 24

Any clues as to which Isles clade 1000 Genomes volunteers CAGI16 and PGP119 belong to? ----- Original Message ----- From: "G. Magoon" <[email protected]> To: "Bernie Cullen" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:47:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] No call at PF6211 is shared by Isles-D2 and Isles-D3 but not Isles-B2; revised list of Geno 2.0 SNPs in I-L161 "Isles" Sorry for the delay...it took me longer than expected to get to this since I came down with the flu last week F2805 4160142 C->T: CAGI16:- ; PGP119:- L669 6753291 G->C: CAGI16:- ; PGP119:- PF5425 16638155 G->C: CAGI16:- ; PGP119:- PF6211 21296172 C->T: CAGI16:- ; PGP119:- The "-" results correspond to results matching the reference sequence at these positions, which I'm assuming (though haven't confirmed) corresponds to ancestral. Greg On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Bernie Cullen <[email protected]>wrote: > .... > > There are four SNPs which give no-calls at Geno 2.0 only for > I-L161 "Isles", There are now two I-L161 samples on the 1000 Genomes > volunteers' spreadsheet: CAGI16 and PGP119. They could be investigated > for the following: > F2805 (no call for all three I-L161 at Geno 2.0) > L669 (no call only for I-L161 "Isles-B2" at Geno 2.0) > PF5425 (no call only for I-L161 "Isles-D3" at Geno 2.0) > PF6211 (no call only for I-L161 "Isles-D2" and "Isles-D3" at Geno 2.0) > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken Unfortunately I am not from one of your missing groups but with nothing else to test for right now I just ordered the Z2541 test. Ray Jenkins Kit#186150 AETEN AS-2 Z138+/Z139+ -------Original Message------- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Date: 12/27/12 16:53:33 To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z2541 splits I1 Z138+ but...... Look at the Z138/Z139 sector of the “Tree for I1 Z58+” at link below. You will see the Z138+ sector has quite a few clades which are distinct and with long ancestral lines back to nodes separating themselves from each other (those two attributes go together!) The snp Z2541 splits the Z138 sector; AS2 and AS1010.2 have each had a negative result for Z2541. But clade I1-ESc13 has had two positive results, and a generic Z138+ with 487 = 13 also is positive. Note that four more clades have had no test results, although one or two are in the pipeline. We need Z2541 tests for clades AS1221, AS1414, AS10910, and especially AS10. We can really not intelligently guess what those clades are for this snp simply from the derived nature of I1-ESc13 clade and one derived generic. “The I1 modalities” file will help you determine whether you belong to one of these named clades. If you are a generic with DYS487 = 13, you might also consider Z2541 for testing. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" At http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5983 - Release Date: 12/24/12

-----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:36 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] The complex M223 Cont-2c L623+ clade I'm not sure Kenneth. If you remember, another I-M223 Project member sponsored those SNP tests and we were lucky to have the owner join the Project. I have already posted a number of reminders were members to upgrade their markers before the sale ends. I'm afraid it is a bit like trying to get a kangaroo to walk/jump backwards. [[There were a number of dead kangaroo on the long, long bus route to Perth in 1987 who could have used the back jumping skill to their benefit]] - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's very good; this wll be first L623 L147 tests for the clade Cont-2c12. That subclade has only two extensions to 67 markers and none to 111 markers. Could the kit's custodian be convinced to expand STR haplotype? Sale ends tomorrow. Cont-2c11 and Cont-2c13 show very nice separation among their 68-111 markers. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:09 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] The complex M223 Cont-2c L623+ clade Kit 40553 is also expecting results for L623 and L147 about 2nd January. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In anticipation that the snp orders --- L623 and L147 --- on kit 210543 will have their results reported out any year now, I have begun the process of putting the clades of L623+ L147+ Continental-2c into the “Tree for M223 Z161+” Initially there are three, Cont-2c11, Cont-2c12, and Cont-2c13 (based on everyone’s beloved DYS388 STR which has been around for a decade or so). But L623+ L147+ haplotype population is so complex, I am sure more clades could be developed if more haplotypes expanded to 67 and 111 markers. This three part division is only a beginning. But we have a start in getting a sense for how long ago this haplogroup began to branch out. kit 210543 will form a very ancient new branch in this sector of the tree, I believe. The big question is whether it will be + + or - - or + – for the new snps? It could go any of those three ways with comparable probability. There are lots of Continental-2c haplotypes. The firstgood clue you belong would be a 14 repeats for DYS19. Second clue is 20/21 or 21/21 at YCAIIa,b. See “The M223 modalities” for all identifying STR characteristics. Tomorrow is last day of their sale in price for expansion of haplotypes to 67 or 111 markers. I encourage Continental-2c clade to expand so we can more fully construct the subclade structure for this part of the tree. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.