> From: Paul Stone > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 10:57 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I Digest, Vol 9, Issue 12 > > > > > DF29- Big Y: > > > I will donate $25 to the cause. What kit number volunteered? SHEFFIELD #123861 (top row): http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* Diana

<chuckle> Indeed. It's now questionable whether anyone should do *any* a la carte SNP testing any more, it's so much more expensive, per SNP, than taking the BigY. OTOH, I noticed I had $77 sitting in the project's General Fund, so that was the decidedly less painful short-term solution. Diana > From: John M Rhodes > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 11:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Rasey I2 > > Well, at that rate it will take you $390,000 and 2,000 years to catch up to > BigY. I don't think you'll make it. But then you'll probably only need 10% > of the SNPs so those estimates can be reduced to $39,000 and 200 years. :-) > > John M Rhodes > > On 2014-01-03, at 11:05 AM, "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > OK, it's drip, drip. I just ordered CTS1977 and L1290 for > > the I2-L801+>L380+ RASEY.

I-L161 "Isles" men fall into three categories: L161+ L1498- PF4135- L161+ L1498- PF4135+ L161+ L1498+ PF4135- Most people in L161+ are either L1498+ or PF4135+, very few people are negative for both SNPs. The people in Ken's Isles-C, Isles-D and most of his Isles-B groups are L1498+. The people in Ken's Isles-A1 and Isles-A2 groups are PF4135+. There are a few people in some of his Isles-B groups who are L1498- and PF4135-. A man named Dover kit 23143 did Geno 2.0 and received L161+ PF4135- results and a strong indication of L1498- results. I thought Dover belonged in Isles-A because he had the distinctive marker values that distinguish Isles-A from other kinds of Isles: DYS454=12, YCAII=19,21, DYS557=17, DYS444=12, also DYS447=24, DYS437=14. And he is a GD of 10 at 67 from some Isles-A people. But he has DYS511=12. Isles-A usually has 11 which is rare in other Isles people. Most Isles-B, C and D have 10. Still, he has a high value at 511 just like the Isles-A people. Dover received Geno 2.0 results of L161+ PF4135- and a strong indication of L1498-. This was a surprise. So I asked other men who were close to Isles-A but who didn't match all of the important marker values to test PF4135 and L1498 at FTDNA which has a more exact way of testing SNPs than the Geno 2.0 test. It turned out that all of these men were L1498+ and so they are probably some kind of Isles-B (these people are named Taylor, Hood, Winchester). So I thought it was important to confirm Dover's results for these two SNPs and I asked him to test them at FTDNA, and he has received L1498- and PF4135- results. I believe these FTDNA results, and I think it means that the PF4135 mutation happened relatively recently. I will try to look for other people who are close to the Isles-A modal but who lack some of the key marker values and ask them to test PF4135. Bernie

Yes, Dover is an exciting find. When I took a first look the other day at his haplotype, he did not seem unusual. I will look again, because otherwise as you say it would imply PF4135 far downstream on the Isles-A branch line and probably a number of other PF4315- And Taylor needs more markers. 25 markers and being a recLOH at that makes it extremely difficult to guess where he'll end up in Isles B. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Cullen Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 11:10 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] The I-L161 man close to Isles-A is confirmedL1498-PF4135- It's true that Hood doesn't have many of the Isles-A marker values. I had moved him around a few times over the years and I'm happy to know that he is L1498+ and that he matches your Isles-B2a. let me know if there are any other people incorrectly categorized (I know I haven't created sections for all your Isles-B groups yet). But I think the news about Dover is exciting and I hope we can find some others like him. Bernie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, at that rate it will take you $390,000 and 2,000 years to catch up to BigY. I don't think you'll make it. But then you'll probably only need 10% of the SNPs so those estimates can be reduced to $39,000 and 200 years. :-) John M Rhodes On 2014-01-03, at 11:05 AM, "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <[email protected]> wrote: > OK, it's drip, drip. I just ordered CTS1977 and L1290 for the I2-L801+>L380+ > RASEY. > > >> From: Diana Gale Matthiesen >> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 10:04 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Rasey I2 >> >> Well, duhhh. I could just go look at the ISOGG tree, so I did. >> >> Given that he's Z78-, it does surprise me that he's also CTS6433-. But I >> guess >> what does surprise me is that his L380+ is still not on the page, even at the >> bottom as a private SNP. >> >> My first impulse is to order CTS1977 and L1290, but I'm wondering if I >> shouldn't >> just pop for the BigY, instead of this drip, drip, drip ordering of a la carte >> SNPs. >> >> Diana > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OK, it's drip, drip. I just ordered CTS1977 and L1290 for the I2-L801+>L380+ RASEY. > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 10:04 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Rasey I2 > > Well, duhhh. I could just go look at the ISOGG tree, so I did. > > Given that he's Z78-, it does surprise me that he's also CTS6433-. But I > guess > what does surprise me is that his L380+ is still not on the page, even at the > bottom as a private SNP. > > My first impulse is to order CTS1977 and L1290, but I'm wondering if I > shouldn't > just pop for the BigY, instead of this drip, drip, drip ordering of a la carte > SNPs. > > Diana

> > DF29- Big Y: > I will donate $25 to the cause. What kit number volunteered? > > > > > > From: John M Rhodes > > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 7:03 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] BigY for I1-M253* > > > > $20 from me. > > > >

Or maybe you put too much weight on YCA? Hood has always been in my B2a collection (Isles B2a is L1498+ while Isles B2b is L1498-, and believe it or not the two populations can be seen to be different without the snp, although it is even hard within the context of Isles-B which has always been an old, scraggily collection. B2a has several members with 20,20 and 20,21 at YCA, so a further mutation to 19,21 is not shocking given the ages of these clades. See "Tree for L161" at website under my signature. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Cullen Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 10:29 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] The I-L161 man close to Isles-A is confirmed L1498-PF4135- I-L161 "Isles" men fall into three categories: L161+ L1498- PF4135- L161+ L1498- PF4135+ L161+ L1498+ PF4135- Most people in L161+ are either L1498+ or PF4135+, very few people are negative for both SNPs. The people in Ken's Isles-C, Isles-D and most of his Isles-B groups are L1498+. The people in Ken's Isles-A1 and Isles-A2 groups are PF4135+. There are a few people in some of his Isles-B groups who are L1498- and PF4135-. A man named Dover kit 23143 did Geno 2.0 and received L161+ PF4135- results and a strong indication of L1498- results. I thought Dover belonged in Isles-A because he had the distinctive marker values that distinguish Isles-A from other kinds of Isles: DYS454=12, YCAII=19,21, DYS557=17, DYS444=12, also DYS447=24, DYS437=14. And he is a GD of 10 at 67 from some Isles-A people. But he has DYS511=12. Isles-A usually has 11 which is rare in other Isles people. Most Isles-B, C and D have 10. Still, he has a high value at 511 just like the Isles-A people. Dover received Geno 2.0 results of L161+ PF4135- and a strong indication of L1498-. This was a surprise. So I asked other men who were close to Isles-A but who didn't match all of the important marker values to test PF4135 and L1498 at FTDNA which has a more exact way of testing SNPs than the Geno 2.0 test. It turned out that all of these men were L1498+ and so they are probably some kind of Isles-B (these people are named Taylor, Hood, Winchester). So I thought it was important to confirm Dover's results for these two SNPs and I asked him to test them at FTDNA, and he has received L1498- and PF4135- results. I believe these FTDNA results, and I think it means that the PF4135 mutation happened relatively recently. I will try to look for other people who are close to the Isles-A modal but who lack some of the key marker values and ask them to test PF4135. Bernie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What would be the connection between your BigY order and a possible malfunction or correction in the Geno2 product? They are entirely different products. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Simonds Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 10:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] PF3514 I ordered the Big Y, so if this is just a recent malfunction of the reading devices, then perhaps the error will be corrected if that is what it is. Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 10:19:08 -0700 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] PF3514 > > There is another interpretation of the PF3514 = AA which are lightly > sprinkled around. It could very well be that recently the lab tinkered > with > the reading devices or some other aspect of the Geno2 chip. The AA seem > to > have come mainly from quite recent results sent out to customers. So we > may > expect from now on Geno2 results in I1 and maybe beyond will most all be > AA? > On the other hand, I hope we don't see that many more Geno2 results; it > has > by now become a real long shot route to new snp discovery. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Simonds > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 9:59 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] PF3514 > > In going over my Geno 2.0 results, I noticed that I'm not PF3514+ like > most > other people in the yDNA Haplogroup I: Sublclade I1 group who have Geno > 2.0 > results. The raw data file says that I'm AA at that location. I was > wondering about this, so thought I would ask. > > Matthew Simonds > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jesatko has a high DYS 385a for Z161*, more like that of the L701 Sector, but 37 markers should tell: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Friday, January 3, 2014 5:39 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Believable Waiting on 37 marker upgrade for Jesatko. What about the others in this Z161 cluster? Do they separate into three subgroups? On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]>wrote: > Probably too early to say who Jesatko belongs with. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:16 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Believable > > Do you see Vella, Membrana & Micallef as a Mediterranean subgroup, > then Jesatko, Perkins & Rogers as another subgroup and then Macmillan, > McMillan, Tanner, McPhee and Cameron as a Scottish subgroup? > > What age estimates do you have for this cluster's founder and subgroup > founders? > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Vella peels off 1800 years b.p. from rest of the McMillan group in > > M223 Tree. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We just had a pledge for another $200! Only $250 more and we can order the test. Diana > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 6:55 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [yDNAhgI] BigY for I1-M253* > > We've had one of the root I1-M253* individuals offer to be > BigY tested, and he's offered to chip in $200. I'll raise > my offer to contribute $20 up to $50, if we can get enough > pledges to purchase the test.

There is another interpretation of the PF3514 = AA which are lightly sprinkled around. It could very well be that recently the lab tinkered with the reading devices or some other aspect of the Geno2 chip. The AA seem to have come mainly from quite recent results sent out to customers. So we may expect from now on Geno2 results in I1 and maybe beyond will most all be AA? On the other hand, I hope we don't see that many more Geno2 results; it has by now become a real long shot route to new snp discovery. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Simonds Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 9:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] PF3514 In going over my Geno 2.0 results, I noticed that I'm not PF3514+ like most other people in the yDNA Haplogroup I: Sublclade I1 group who have Geno 2.0 results. The raw data file says that I'm AA at that location. I was wondering about this, so thought I would ask. Matthew Simonds ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is something erratic about the behavior of PF3514. I show 5 I1 plus one I2 with AA, while many dozens of others are all AG. But those 5 anomalies in I1 are from very different parts of the I1 tree; their results can not be due to an inherited common mutation in their ancestral lines. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Simonds Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 9:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] PF3514 In going over my Geno 2.0 results, I noticed that I'm not PF3514+ like most other people in the yDNA Haplogroup I: Sublclade I1 group who have Geno 2.0 results. The raw data file says that I'm AA at that location. I was wondering about this, so thought I would ask. Matthew Simonds ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, duhhh. I could just go look at the ISOGG tree, so I did. Given that he's Z78-, it does surprise me that he's also CTS6433-. But I guess what does surprise me is that his L380+ is still not on the page, even at the bottom as a private SNP. My first impulse is to order CTS1977 and L1290, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't just pop for the BigY, instead of this drip, drip, drip ordering of a la carte SNPs. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:42 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > He's RASEY #69631, the one that did the WTY (scroll down to see SNP results): > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Rasey/RaseyDNA-results.html#Deme2 > > Until I do for I2 what I just did for I1, I'm so out-of-date I'm not going to > appreciate what his CTS6433- result means. > > Diana > > > From: Wayne R. Roberts > > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 6:43 AM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > > > Diana, what has me surprised is his CTS6433 ancestral result. In some ways > > I am not surprised as he does not seem to fit that grouping but still > > thought he would be derived. Perhaps Kenneth can offer some advice. Is he > > CTS1977 or L1290 or some unknown SNP? > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the added info, Wayne. > > > > > > My I2 RASEY's result has just come in, so now we have double proof: as > > > expected, he, too, is L1439-. > > > > > > This was another fast SNP test return. I ordered the test on December > > > 15th and > > > it returned January 2nd. > > > > > > Diana >

L1439 is ancestral in I2-M223 (I2a2a, old I2b1) for Kit 69631.

There are two SNPs at the same position. PF3514 is A to G. Y1850 is A to C. Geno 2.0 shows me as AG. Full Genomes shows me as CC, and calls the SNP FGC2408, which is the same as Y1850. Anyone who has AG in Geno 2.0 is probably actually CC and Y1850/FGC2408. John O'Grady > > There is something erratic about the behavior of PF3514. I show 5 I1 plus > one I2 with AA, while many dozens of others are all AG. But those 5 > anomalies in I1 are from very different parts of the I1 tree; their results > can not be due to an inherited common mutation in their ancestral lines. > > Kenneth Nordtvedt

He's RASEY #69631, the one that did the WTY (scroll down to see SNP results): http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Rasey/RaseyDNA-results.html#Deme2 Until I do for I2 what I just did for I1, I'm so out-of-date I'm not going to appreciate what his CTS6433- result means. Diana > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 6:43 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > Diana, what has me surprised is his CTS6433 ancestral result. In some ways > I am not surprised as he does not seem to fit that grouping but still > thought he would be derived. Perhaps Kenneth can offer some advice. Is he > CTS1977 or L1290 or some unknown SNP? > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Thanks for the added info, Wayne. > > > > My I2 RASEY's result has just come in, so now we have double proof: as > > expected, he, too, is L1439-. > > > > This was another fast SNP test return. I ordered the test on December > > 15th and > > it returned January 2nd. > > > > Diana

Thank you! > From: John M Rhodes > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 7:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] BigY for I1-M253* > > $20 from me. > > > John M Rhodes > > On 2014-01-03, at 6:55 AM, "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > We've had one of the root I1-M253* individuals offer to be BigY tested, and > he's > > offered to chip in $200. I'll raise my offer to contribute $20 up to $50, > if we > > can get enough pledges to purchase the test. > > > > Diana

Yes; all those outputs are in generations. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Robert May Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 11:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] Generations111T Ken Just to confirm that GA Goal, GB Goal, GA and GB are in generations? BobDNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It has to go to my private email. This public discussion group will not take attachments. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 8:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices Ken: Did you receive my Geno 2 raw data file? I'm not trying to rush you, I know you are busy,but my e-mail provider is kind of unreliable about telling me if an e-mail was received.If I need to re-send it,what e-mail address,should I use? Also ,which STR's are in the "14/22/15" group? Thank you,for all you do. --- [email protected] wrote: From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:19:20 -0700 Just download the default zipped file that Geno2 offers you, and then send to me as attachment on an email. I have an unzipping application to handle it from there. Kenneth Nordtvedt http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices Diana,Ken,and everyone that's tried to help me since 2008:Thanks, I suppose i am making progress,since I started out as a singleton I1*,and now have found 3 same surname relatives.And am now, I1-z140* .I would like to send my raw data to you,Ken,if I knew how. I know that you have explained how to do this,before,but I can't find it now.I know even less about computers,than I do about DNA. (if that's possible) --- [email protected] wrote: From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 10:54:02 -0700 What sense do you want made of your results? What you said so far........ ending in Z140+/Z141+ is consistent with what your haplotype says --- you look like a fringe member of the 14/22/15 complex which is Z140+ in fact. In my database I have you as generic Z140+. If you send me your raw data file from Geno2 I can compare all 12,000 + ysnps with others from your part of the tree to see if you have anything novel in the way of ysnps. Kenneth Nordtvedt http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 4:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices HI Diana: I am Garland Hogan,FTDNA 79332,y-search 3NNCA. I have been in the Z-140 group for some time,also on your list.I recently took Geno 2.0,and just got my results,this just adds to my confusion,I transferred,my results to FTDNA,and I still don't know much more about my SNP's.They confirmed that I'm positive for Z-58.Z59,and Z60,as well as Z140/Z-141,the only SNP's I saw that have been mentioned,by you or Ken,are pages00123,and CTS8647,almost all others mentioned in relation to Z-140,are negative or not called out.Can you ,or anyone else,make any sense of it? --- [email protected] wrote: From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 10:20:38 -0500 > From: Nicolas Taban > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 8:27 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I1-M253 haplotree and SNP matrices > > Diana, > > For your info, I had recorded that N822121 (I have no name, but is oldest > ancestor is Edward Barton in 1620) did tested PF3247+. He is not in the > P109+ > (although he tested P109+) project but was in the L22+ project. > Unfortunately > since November when I did found his haplotype and SNP list in the L22+ > project, he has most likely rethdrawn himself from the project and I can > not > find him anymore. SEMARGL.ME still shows his data: http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/haplotypes/table/501/ The kit # is N82121, and his SNPs are: M253+ DF29+ L22+ P109+ PF3247+ Interestingly, Google still has him indexed in the Norway Project, though if you click the link and go to the page, he's not there. I was able to copy the Description text on the Google hit, and it looks like this: N82121, Olav Olai Larsen 1822-95 Osterøy, HRD, I1d1, 13, 23, 14, 10, 14-15, 11, 14, 10, 13, 11, 29, 15, 8-9, 8, 11, 23, 16, 20, 28, 12-14-15-15, 10, 10, 19-21, 14 ... This haplotype jibes with the one SEMARGL.ME is showing, so this definitely is our guy. Thankfully, we got a look at it, now, because the next time Google indexes that page this information will disappear. Thank you for putting me on his trail. I've filled in the matrix for PF3247+: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_L22.html#PF3247 > Kit 46183 also relates to the same ancestor (exact same text) but his > haplotype is quite different (distance of 18 on 37 markers or only 21/37 > match). Unfortunaltely he did not test this SNP. The Google description is showing a different ancestor, which would explain the non-matching haplotypes. > As for CTS11525, I didn't find it anywhere. Only on Terry's (Robb?) web > pages > http://www.goggo.com/terry/HaplogroupI1/ > I did ask him where he found it without any respons so far. Terry? Are you > arround? You have been quiet since this summer! I, too, initially found CTS11525+ only on Terry Robb's tree, but now I've found the CTS11525+ individual! I don't know why I didn't think to do this sooner, for the SNPs not found in the Hg I1 project. I did a site search at Google with these search terms, which allows the search to cover all FTDNA projects and pages: site:familytreedna.com CTS11525+ and up he popped: #45041, a BELANGER in the French Heritage project, now in the CTS11525+ matrix: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_L22.html#CTS11525 I do love tying up loose ends. THANK YOU for your help. Now I'm going to try this search technique for the other SNPs not found... Diana ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message