John, I might be missing something here, but I agree with Obed -- I am I2b1c (I-P78) and I have PF 3514 derived (+) from GENO 2.0 as do all the I1d (I-L22) members of my surname project who tested with GENO 2.0. I don't have immediate access to the call right now to see if it shows a "C" but I believe it does. So, no new SNP eh? Richard Brewer On Wednesday, January 8, 2014, Obed W Odom wrote: > John, I wouldn't call PF3514=C a new SNP. I am I1-Z138 and also have C. In > fact, the ISOGG Y browser says this SNP is at the IJ level in the Y tree so > probably all I and J people should have it. The problem seems to be that > the original reference for PF3514 showed A to G instead of A to C. All of > the next-generation-sequencing results that I have seen for I1 and !2 > people show C. > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:21 PM, John O'Grady <[email protected]<javascript:;> > >wrote: > > > Bernie, > > The reason that the Geno 2.0 chip didn't work is that the PF3514 mutation > > is A to C, not A to G. The good news is that, according to Full Genomes, > I > > am PF3514=C+. So we have a new SNP for L161-Isles. > > John O'Grady > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, Obed. John O'Grady > > John, I wouldn't call PF3514=C a new SNP. I am I1-Z138 and also have C. In > fact, the ISOGG Y browser says this SNP is at the IJ level in the Y tree so > probably all I and J people should have it. The problem seems to be that > the original reference for PF3514 showed A to G instead of A to C. All of > the next-generation-sequencing results that I have seen for I1 and !2 > people show C. > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:21 PM, John O'Grady <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Bernie, >> The reason that the Geno 2.0 chip didn't work is that the PF3514 mutation >> is A to C, not A to G. The good news is that, according to Full Genomes, I >> am PF3514=C+. So we have a new SNP for L161-Isles. >> John O'Grady

Thank you Ken. I have an email address for Willis and will ask him if he would be willing to go to 111 markers. I have nothing on Cueva. If you have an email address for him, I would be happy to try to contact him. I know nothing of a Fuchs/Fox, but would be happy to contact him as well if you have an address. Do you know where I could get a report on Kelly's 111 markers? Would 111 marker tests by more Dunhams and/or men with similar though different surnames be helpful in terms of the "population" that you say we need be helpful? Examples that I could try to contact in that second category would include Durrum, Donham, Denham and Dunnam. Thank you again for what you are doing for us. George

Bernie, The reason that the Geno 2.0 chip didn't work is that the PF3514 mutation is A to C, not A to G. The good news is that, according to Full Genomes, I am PF3514=C+. So we have a new SNP for L161-Isles. John O'Grady > > I think Geno 2.0 has recalibrated/fixed PF3514 recently. I have multiple > PF3514=A,A in I-P37.2 since November, before that they were almost all A G. > > Bernie

PF3514 is a trouble prone snp as measured on the chip. Right now with other things to do, I ignore PF3514. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Hans De Beule Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 12:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] I2a2b and PF3514 Hi all, Today I received a I-L38 (I2a2b) Geno2.0 raw data file. It has a curious PF3514 = A,A According the chromosome browser A=ancestral and G=derived. All other I-L38 Geno2.0 samples have a PF3514=A,G. Also M23 and L161 samples have PF3514=A,G. How to interprete this curious PF3514 = A,A? Is it a miscall - or do all the other samples have a PF3514 miscall? Best, Hans ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

While test expansions on family members can certainly help surname studies, I don't think they help deep clade studies. They just give very recent mutations unique to a family in the last ten or so generations. Fox comes from ysearch. Cueva is a mystery to me where I got him? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: george doty Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 10:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] [yDNAhg Full Genomes Thank you Ken. I have an email address for Willis and will ask him if he would be willing to go to 111 markers. I have nothing on Cueva. If you have an email address for him, I would be happy to try to contact him. I know nothing of a Fuchs/Fox, but would be happy to contact him as well if you have an address. Do you know where I could get a report on Kelly's 111 markers? Would 111 marker tests by more Dunhams and/or men with similar though different surnames be helpful in terms of the "population" that you say we need be helpful? Examples that I could try to contact in that second category would include Durrum, Donham, Denham and Dunnam. Thank you again for what you are doing for us. George ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Family Tree DNA is encouraging people to transfer autosomal DNA results from competitors: 7/1/13 - Be part of one big combined database! Transferring your 23andMe© or AncestryDNA™ autosomal test results to Family Tree DNA is easy So maybe they will soon do the same with SNP results Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:25:58 -0500 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > John, > > I see, not surprising. We have no reason not to cooperate with one another, but > they certainly do. > > Yes, I found Collier, thank you. > > Diana > > > > From: John O'Grady > > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 9:53 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > > > Diana, > > > > Chromo2 is a product of one of FTDNA's competitors, so there won't be any > > transfers, unless FTDNA decides to accept results from Chromo2 customers. > > > > Did you see that Bernie Cullen provided Collier's kit number? > > > > John O'Grady > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > Thank you, John. > > > > > > Can people who've taken the Chromo2 test transfer results to FTDNA? Or am I > > > correct in assuming just Geno2 people can do that? > > > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I- > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here is some information for you: Y1843 5,000,049 G to A Z2904 7,207,536 T to A I don't know anything about FGC2489. John O'Grady ---------------------------------------- > Are Y1843 and FGC2489 synonyms for the same SNP, or are they equivalent? Also, > are they equivalent to Z2904, or are they downstream, or do we know? > > Diana

Are Y1843 and FGC2489 synonyms for the same SNP, or are they equivalent? Also, are they equivalent to Z2904, or are they downstream, or do we know? Diana

Come to think of it, yes, it's good marketing. You've got a group of potential customers who've already shown an interest in DNA testing. Reel them in, so they'll do the rest of their testing with you. Diana > From: Matthew Simonds > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 10:56 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > > Family Tree DNA is encouraging people to transfer autosomal DNA results from > competitors: > 7/1/13 - Be part of one big combined database! Transferring your 23andMeC or > AncestryDNAT autosomal test results to Family Tree DNA is easy > > So maybe they will soon do the same with SNP results > > Matthew Simonds

The article "DNA Genealogy and Linguistics" by Klyosov and Tomezzoli also says that I1, I2 and G2 were probably a "Semiditic" people. But according to Wikipedia, "The Atlantic languages of Semitic or 'Semitidic' (para-Semitic) origin are a disputed concept in historical linguistics put forward by Theo Vennemann. The theory has found no notable acceptance in academic circles, and is criticised as being based on sparse and often misinterpreted data." This article also uses the term "Arbin" for non-Indo-European R1b peoples, but I can hardly find anything online that uses this term "Arbin". I've never seen it before. Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:00:29 +0000 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic people. I also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? > > Matthew Simonds > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue > > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > > > I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 populations > > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch > > distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and Linguistics. > > Ancient Europe * > > > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > attachments: > > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across > > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > > > Terry W. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken, Unfortunately I am not allowed to communicate on the tree www.fullgenomes.com made from their sequencing until now. As an indication : the I1 node is now worth 471 SNPs !  Not, 80, not 100  but 471. Upstream and including these 471 there are some 1700 SNPs. I wasn't able to estimate the SNPs downstream (until now) . If I1 is 25000 years old those 471 SNPs would make 1 SNP per 50 years.  However, I rather think I1 is older than previously estimated and the time interval between 2 SNPs a little longer.   Didier Vernade

John, I see, not surprising. We have no reason not to cooperate with one another, but they certainly do. Yes, I found Collier, thank you. Diana > From: John O'Grady > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 9:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > Diana, > > Chromo2 is a product of one of FTDNA's competitors, so there won't be any > transfers, unless FTDNA decides to accept results from Chromo2 customers. > > Did you see that Bernie Cullen provided Collier's kit number? > > John O'Grady > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Thank you, John. > > > > Can people who've taken the Chromo2 test transfer results to FTDNA? Or am I > > correct in assuming just Geno2 people can do that? > > > > Diana > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

No apology needed. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call it a typo, not a senior moment - if you're even old enough to have senior moments. ;-) Diana > From: Bernie Cullen > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 9:52 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > Sorry! Collier is 315850 and you can see his 37 marker results at the I2a > Project but no SNP results because I don't think Chromo2 results can be > transferred. (I double checked the kit number before my first post but > still made a mistake) > > Bernie

Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic people. I also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? Matthew Simonds > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 populations > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch > distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and Linguistics. > Ancient Europe * > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > Terry W. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry! Collier is 315850 and you can see his 37 marker results at the I2a Project but no SNP results because I don't think Chromo2 results can be transferred. (I double checked the kit number before my first post but still made a mistake) Bernie On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen <[email protected]>wrote: > Thanks, Bernie. > > The only place I find Kit# 315890 is in the TUBBS Project, and the TUBBS > project > is not displaying SNP results. Any hope of getting him to join a > haplogroup > project where his SNP results will be displayed? > > Diana > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > y-dna-haplogroup-i- > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Bernie Cullen > > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 9:18 PM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > > > Hi John, > > > > Collier's 37 markers are now complete (kit 315890) and he has ordered a > few > > additional markers on Ken's advice. > > > > You are Isles-D2 and maybe you know that there is a Isles-D2 guy with > > preliminary Chromo2 results, Ken compared him to Collier and to the other > > Isles-B guy with Chromo2 results and posted the results on his site a few > > days ago. The Isles-D2 guy's raw data from Chromo2 is not yet available > as > > far as I know. > > Bernie > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:59 PM, John O'Grady <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > Diana, > > > > > > My kit is N28466. > > > > > > Collier is still waiting for his initial STR test to be completed. > > > > > > John O'Grady > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > > > Hello John, > > > > > > > > Could you please share his Kit/ID # and yours? > > > > > > > > Diana > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If > > you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me > again > > at [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I- > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > > subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again at [email protected]

Thanks, Bernie. The only place I find Kit# 315890 is in the TUBBS Project, and the TUBBS project is not displaying SNP results. Any hope of getting him to join a haplogroup project where his SNP results will be displayed? Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Bernie Cullen > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 9:18 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > Hi John, > > Collier's 37 markers are now complete (kit 315890) and he has ordered a few > additional markers on Ken's advice. > > You are Isles-D2 and maybe you know that there is a Isles-D2 guy with > preliminary Chromo2 results, Ken compared him to Collier and to the other > Isles-B guy with Chromo2 results and posted the results on his site a few > days ago. The Isles-D2 guy's raw data from Chromo2 is not yet available as > far as I know. > Bernie > > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:59 PM, John O'Grady <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Diana, > > > > My kit is N28466. > > > > Collier is still waiting for his initial STR test to be completed. > > > > John O'Grady > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > Hello John, > > > > > > Could you please share his Kit/ID # and yours? > > > > > > Diana > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If > you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again > at [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Thank you, John. Can people who've taken the Chromo2 test transfer results to FTDNA? Or am I correct in assuming just Geno2 people can do that? Diana > From: John O'Grady > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 8:59 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 L161 comparison > > Diana, > > My kit is N28466. > > Collier is still waiting for his initial STR test to be completed. > > John O'Grady > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Hello John, > > > > Could you please share his Kit/ID # and yours? > > > > Diana

The other Isles-B guy is CTS3844 GG like Collier. I don't have any other haplogroup I results from Chromo2. Bernie

Hi John, Collier's 37 markers are now complete (kit 315890) and he has ordered a few additional markers on Ken's advice. You are Isles-D2 and maybe you know that there is a Isles-D2 guy with preliminary Chromo2 results, Ken compared him to Collier and to the other Isles-B guy with Chromo2 results and posted the results on his site a few days ago. The Isles-D2 guy's raw data from Chromo2 is not yet available as far as I know. Bernie On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:59 PM, John O'Grady <[email protected]>wrote: > Diana, > > My kit is N28466. > > Collier is still waiting for his initial STR test to be completed. > > John O'Grady > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Hello John, > > > > Could you please share his Kit/ID # and yours? > > > > Diana > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again at [email protected]