Thanks, Wayne. That's the way we used to have to do it, before they added the feature to our GAP allowing the admin to do it. I hope I'm safe in assuming the Hg I1 project admin is willing to accept the donations and arrange for the payment... So, the hurdle now is to get enough donations to proceed. Diana > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 8:10 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] BigY test for our I1-M253* > > Diana, > > You can contact FTDNA and place the order for the Big Y and then FTDNA will > deduct the cost from the Project Fund. > > Wayne > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > A few weeks ago we got the ball rolling for a BigY test for one of our root > > I1-M253*'s. We have a volunteer in the form of SHEFFIELD #123861 (1st row > > in the table): > > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* > > > > The SHEFFIELD, himself, pledged $200 and so did someone else. I pledged > > $50 and someone else pledged $25, so we are up to $475 pledged. That > > leaves us just $220 to raise and we'll have enough! > > <snip>

Thank-you. No it doesn't seem to fit anywhere at all! I always knew he was a one off! Carol Gilbert [email protected] On 15 Jan 2014, at 21:16, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > Mav is in blue background; AS161616 is the bottommost with the rose > background. I don't think your haplotype fits either clade. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Gilbert > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 2:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree > > Is it in the purple bit - I can't read the writing in that bit! Eyesight not > brilliant and black on puple doesn't contrast enough to see. > > Carol Gilbert > [email protected] > > > > > > > On 15 Jan 2014, at 20:55, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > >> You can't find those characteristics in "I1 Modalities" file in my >> website? >> >> >> >> Kenneth Nordtvedt >> >> Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: >> http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carol Gilbert >> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 1:46 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree >> >> Yes thats him. >> >> But what actually is it that defines AS161616 and MAV11? I've asked >> several >> people and never received an answer as to what they are. >> >> Carol Gilbert >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >> >>> I have your haplotype classified as a generic within its snp >>> specifications. >>> I see no clade or cluster to which it belongs. >>> >>> While the 1-37 markers are remarkably normal, the 38-67 include the rare >>> 13 >>> at 425 and 30 at 481? Is that your haplotype? >>> >>> While 587=19 is a small minority of haplotypes in I1, it is not super >>> rare, >>> so by itself it can't be used for classification. >>> >>> Where are his 68-111 marker values to be seen? >>> >>> >>> >>> Kenneth Nordtvedt >>> >>> Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: >>> http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Carol Gilbert >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM >>> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i >>> Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree >>> >>> Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. >>> >>> After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. >>> As >>> my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and >>> M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am >>> probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that >>> indicates >>> what they are? >>> >>> His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a >>> couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean >>> anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! >>> >>> Carol Gilbert >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is it in the purple bit - I can't read the writing in that bit! Eyesight not brilliant and black on puple doesn't contrast enough to see. Carol Gilbert [email protected] On 15 Jan 2014, at 20:55, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > You can't find those characteristics in "I1 Modalities" file in my website? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Gilbert > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 1:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree > > Yes thats him. > > But what actually is it that defines AS161616 and MAV11? I've asked several > people and never received an answer as to what they are. > > Carol Gilbert > [email protected] > > > > > > > On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > >> I have your haplotype classified as a generic within its snp >> specifications. >> I see no clade or cluster to which it belongs. >> >> While the 1-37 markers are remarkably normal, the 38-67 include the rare >> 13 >> at 425 and 30 at 481? Is that your haplotype? >> >> While 587=19 is a small minority of haplotypes in I1, it is not super >> rare, >> so by itself it can't be used for classification. >> >> Where are his 68-111 marker values to be seen? >> >> >> >> Kenneth Nordtvedt >> >> Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: >> http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carol Gilbert >> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i >> Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree >> >> Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. >> >> After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. >> As >> my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and >> M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am >> probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates >> what they are? >> >> His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a >> couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean >> anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! >> >> Carol Gilbert >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What is the expected value there? Carol Gilbert [email protected] On 15 Jan 2014, at 19:00, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > I found all your 68-111 markers. The 12 at DYS525 is your rarest marker > value. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Gilbert > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree > > Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. > > After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. As > my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and > M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am > probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates > what they are? > > His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a > couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean > anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! > > Carol Gilbert > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes thats him. But what actually is it that defines AS161616 and MAV11? I've asked several people and never received an answer as to what they are. Carol Gilbert [email protected] On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > I have your haplotype classified as a generic within its snp specifications. > I see no clade or cluster to which it belongs. > > While the 1-37 markers are remarkably normal, the 38-67 include the rare 13 > at 425 and 30 at 481? Is that your haplotype? > > While 587=19 is a small minority of haplotypes in I1, it is not super rare, > so by itself it can't be used for classification. > > Where are his 68-111 marker values to be seen? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Gilbert > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree > > Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. > > After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. As > my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and > M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am > probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates > what they are? > > His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a > couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean > anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! > > Carol Gilbert > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. As my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates what they are? His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! Carol Gilbert [email protected]

There are certainly "less good" areas to stay away from. But more than one lab person has put out 26 million relatively decent sites to use for y snps. So 10 million can flop around a fair amount in a pot of 26 million. It would make it easier to check if known snps from other sources were to be covered or not with the BigY. And I suspect the regions around known snps have been somewhat mined already for other snps. And to tell you the truth, I think I forgot the original reason I asked FTDNA about it; at the time I thought it important. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Simonds Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Which Ten million? Ken, are there, in your opinion, better sites on Y to measure than others? Is it better to measure large blocks as opposed to 400 on each side of known SNPs? Does it make a difference? Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:51:23 -0700 > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Which Ten million? > > A couple weeks ago I asked FTDNA which ten million sites on Y are measured > in the BigY? Large blocks of sites or 400 each way from each known snp on > the chip? > For some reason they have chosen not to answer the question so far. > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A couple weeks ago I asked FTDNA which ten million sites on Y are measured in the BigY? Large blocks of sites or 400 each way from each known snp on the chip? For some reason they have chosen not to answer the question so far. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

Mav is in blue background; AS161616 is the bottommost with the rose background. I don't think your haplotype fits either clade. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Carol Gilbert Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 2:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree Is it in the purple bit - I can't read the writing in that bit! Eyesight not brilliant and black on puple doesn't contrast enough to see. Carol Gilbert [email protected] On 15 Jan 2014, at 20:55, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > You can't find those characteristics in "I1 Modalities" file in my > website? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Gilbert > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 1:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree > > Yes thats him. > > But what actually is it that defines AS161616 and MAV11? I've asked > several > people and never received an answer as to what they are. > > Carol Gilbert > [email protected] > > > > > > > On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > >> I have your haplotype classified as a generic within its snp >> specifications. >> I see no clade or cluster to which it belongs. >> >> While the 1-37 markers are remarkably normal, the 38-67 include the rare >> 13 >> at 425 and 30 at 481? Is that your haplotype? >> >> While 587=19 is a small minority of haplotypes in I1, it is not super >> rare, >> so by itself it can't be used for classification. >> >> Where are his 68-111 marker values to be seen? >> >> >> >> Kenneth Nordtvedt >> >> Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: >> http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carol Gilbert >> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i >> Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree >> >> Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. >> >> After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. >> As >> my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and >> M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am >> probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that >> indicates >> what they are? >> >> His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a >> couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean >> anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! >> >> Carol Gilbert >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You can't find those characteristics in "I1 Modalities" file in my website? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Carol Gilbert Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 1:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree Yes thats him. But what actually is it that defines AS161616 and MAV11? I've asked several people and never received an answer as to what they are. Carol Gilbert [email protected] On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > I have your haplotype classified as a generic within its snp > specifications. > I see no clade or cluster to which it belongs. > > While the 1-37 markers are remarkably normal, the 38-67 include the rare > 13 > at 425 and 30 at 481? Is that your haplotype? > > While 587=19 is a small minority of haplotypes in I1, it is not super > rare, > so by itself it can't be used for classification. > > Where are his 68-111 marker values to be seen? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Gilbert > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree > > Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. > > After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. > As > my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and > M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am > probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates > what they are? > > His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a > couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean > anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! > > Carol Gilbert > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found all your 68-111 markers. The 12 at DYS525 is your rarest marker value. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Carol Gilbert Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. As my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates what they are? His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! Carol Gilbert [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have your haplotype classified as a generic within its snp specifications. I see no clade or cluster to which it belongs. While the 1-37 markers are remarkably normal, the 38-67 include the rare 13 at 425 and 30 at 481? Is that your haplotype? While 587=19 is a small minority of haplotypes in I1, it is not super rare, so by itself it can't be used for classification. Where are his 68-111 marker values to be seen? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Carol Gilbert Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:35 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] A query re Ken's I1xL22xZ58 Tree Kenneth I have a query about your 'I1xL22xZ58 Tree'. After L69 you have a branch to AS161616 and another to MAV11 before M227. As my husband ( FTDNA 267833 ) falls into the gap between, being L69+ and M227-, I was wondering what it was that defined those two branches. I am probably missing something obvious but I can't see anything that indicates what they are? His 11 marker result is now nearly through and I think there might be a couple more unusual values there, for example DYS587=19 - does that mean anything specific? or is it just another indication he's odd :-) ! Carol Gilbert [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A few weeks ago we got the ball rolling for a BigY test for one of our root I1-M253*'s. We have a volunteer in the form of SHEFFIELD #123861 (1st row in the table): http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* The SHEFFIELD, himself, pledged $200 and so did someone else. I pledged $50 and someone else pledged $25, so we are up to $475 pledged. That leaves us just $220 to raise and we'll have enough! I've been questioned how to accomplish the donations and purchase. Normally, it would be easy: We would all make our donations to the Hg I1 project General Fund, then the SHEFFIELD would purchase the test using the Invoice payment method, then the Hg I1 project admin would pay the Invoice from the project General Fund. Unfortunately, as I have discovered, the BigY must be paid for by credit card. Payment by Invoice is greyed out when you go to purchase the test. It *may* be possible to get FTDNA to make an exception, taking the order over the phone and extracting the money from the project General Fund to pay for it manually on their end. Frankly, it's rather dense of them to make it so difficult for their customers to pay for an expensive test! If anyone has an idea for getting the purchase accomplished, please suggest it. But first things first, we need the rest of the pledges! Diana

> Greetings Simo Your observation that "Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles" directly corresponds with my research around my family which I have traced to the Gloucestershire/Wiltshire borders in England along the Thames which was the border between the ancient kingdoms of Mercia and Wessex. Whilst there is an outside chance of Viking ancestry in that area, an Angle or Saxon origin is much more likely given its history. Given that the family was more concentrated to the north of the Thames, we were tending towards the Angles as our ancestors, so thank you for your information which reinforces our suspicions. Regards John > From: simo <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > Date: 13 January 2014 12:31:25 GMT > To: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > I would like just to inform you that we have done SNP tests , both Z63 and > Z58, on Macura haplotype and it appears that Macura's are Z63+. It helps me > a lot to understand its possible migration to Balkan, but it doesn't solve > its connection with the Goths. > > Observing all clades of Z63: in Britain, Spain and continental Europe, I > came to conclusion that Z63 cannot be connected with Goths but with some > other continental Europe germanic people. There two candidates, equally > interesting: Suebi or Suevi and Vandals. > Angli were mentioned as part of Suevic tribal union, and it seems to me > that Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles. > It is also represented in central and northern Germany where Suevic tribes > lived. Even the part od Sweden known as Svealand (area around Stockholm) > have Z63 haplotypes in contrast with southern Sweden which is Z63 empty > (region from where supposedly Goths came from). Some scientist connects > these Svealand region and tribe of Suiones with Suevi. Also Z63 could be > found around region of Braga in northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia, > where for long period existed Suevic kingdom. > > Z63 is also very common in region of central Poland where people of Vandals > once lived. It is also region of Przeworsk archeological culture associated > with Vandals. Vandals according to some historians came from nowadays > Sweden from the area of Vendel, and it is the same region as Svealand > around Stockholm and also the only region in Sweden with higher Z63. > Vandals migrated together with Suevi to Spain, one of Vandals tribes > Hasdingi were incorporated in Suevic kingdom. > > So, as we see, Z63 coincide very well both with the Vandali and Suevi, but > it very little coincide with Goths. It is not presented in significant > numbers in some regions settled with Goths: sothern Ukraine, Italy, > southern France, Gotland in Sweden. Also it is presented in Britain where > goths never lived. Probably some Goths absorbed groups of Vandals on their > way from northern to Southern europe. Maybe that's how we can explain some > "crimean Goths" Z63 haplotypes found in southern Russia. > > Balkan Z63 could be very easily descended from some slavicized germanic > tribes of central Europe which together with Slavs in 7th century AD > settled on Balkan peninsula. For example Vandali Silingi became Slavic > Silesians, there is a lot of such examples. > > Simo > > > >

I am not convinced that a Gothic connection can be ruled out. In fact, I think the evidence is quite good. The only group that does not fit is the British segment. Given that Z63 is 2000 years older than the first attestation of the Goths, it is reasonable that a portion of the population separated from the other giving a multi-migration pattern that we see today. A Suebic and Vandal connection is also quite possible. 1. Re: Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? (simo) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: simo <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 13:31:25 +0100 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > I would like just to inform you that we have done SNP tests , both Z63 and > Z58, on Macura haplotype and it appears that Macura's are Z63+. It helps me > a lot to understand its possible migration to Balkan, but it doesn't solve > its connection with the Goths. > > Observing all clades of Z63: in Britain, Spain and continental Europe, I > came to conclusion that Z63 cannot be connected with Goths but with some > other continental Europe germanic people. There two candidates, equally > interesting: Suebi or Suevi and Vandals. > Angli were mentioned as part of Suevic tribal union, and it seems to me > that Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles. > It is also represented in central and northern Germany where Suevic tribes > lived. Even the part od Sweden known as Svealand (area around Stockholm) > have Z63 haplotypes in contrast with southern Sweden which is Z63 empty > (region from where supposedly Goths came from). Some scientist connects > these Svealand region and tribe of Suiones with Suevi. Also Z63 could be > found around region of Braga in northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia, > where for long period existed Suevic kingdom. > > Z63 is also very common in region of central Poland where people of Vandals > once lived. It is also region of Przeworsk archeological culture associated > with Vandals. Vandals according to some historians came from nowadays > Sweden from the area of Vendel, and it is the same region as Svealand > around Stockholm and also the only region in Sweden with higher Z63. > Vandals migrated together with Suevi to Spain, one of Vandals tribes > Hasdingi were incorporated in Suevic kingdom. > > So, as we see, Z63 coincide very well both with the Vandali and Suevi, but > it very little coincide with Goths. It is not presented in significant > numbers in some regions settled with Goths: sothern Ukraine, Italy, > southern France, Gotland in Sweden. Also it is presented in Britain where > goths never lived. Probably some Goths absorbed groups of Vandals on their > way from northern to Southern europe. Maybe that's how we can explain some > "crimean Goths" Z63 haplotypes found in southern Russia. > > Balkan Z63 could be very easily descended from some slavicized germanic > tribes of central Europe which together with Slavs in 7th century AD > settled on Balkan peninsula. For example Vandali Silingi became Slavic > Silesians, there is a lot of such examples. > > Simo > > >

For people in the L701 Sector of M223 who are L703+ and L704-, FTDNA just made available PF6899 as an individual order SNP. It only took FTDNA half a year. All L704+ people should be derived and the remainder of M223 should be ancestral. Only one L703+ and L704- person in the FTDNA M223 Project has tested PF6899 (which was through Geno 2.0) and that was Morgan 24276, who is PF6899+. PF6899 is in Geno 2.0, I’m uncertain whether it’s in Chromo 2.0, and FTDNA has not disclosed whether it’s in Big Y, so L703+, L704- people who are taking those may want to wait for results before contemplating PF6899 as a single order SNP. The first post on RootsWeb regarding PF6899 (with ellipses indicating redaction for other SNPs that have since been finalized on the M223 Sector Tree) is pasted below: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2013-07/1372863654 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" < [email protected]> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Use of 6 snps in L701 sector of M223 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 09:00:54 -0600 In the L701 sector of M223 tree (see Tree for M223 x Z161) there are now the new snps: .............................................. PF6896, PF6899, and PF6902 …… PF6896, PF6899, and PF6902 were found in Wilson Geno2 raw data. But we don’t know how far upstream they sit in the sector’s tree, except that P78+ is ancestral for these three snps. All the other branches of this sector should test for these three snps. …… Updated “Tree for M223 x Z161” includes the information discussed above. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-" "Tree for I1 Z60+" "Tree for I1 L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net <http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/> These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would like just to inform you that we have done SNP tests , both Z63 and Z58, on Macura haplotype and it appears that Macura's are Z63+. It helps me a lot to understand its possible migration to Balkan, but it doesn't solve its connection with the Goths. Observing all clades of Z63: in Britain, Spain and continental Europe, I came to conclusion that Z63 cannot be connected with Goths but with some other continental Europe germanic people. There two candidates, equally interesting: Suebi or Suevi and Vandals. Angli were mentioned as part of Suevic tribal union, and it seems to me that Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles. It is also represented in central and northern Germany where Suevic tribes lived. Even the part od Sweden known as Svealand (area around Stockholm) have Z63 haplotypes in contrast with southern Sweden which is Z63 empty (region from where supposedly Goths came from). Some scientist connects these Svealand region and tribe of Suiones with Suevi. Also Z63 could be found around region of Braga in northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia, where for long period existed Suevic kingdom. Z63 is also very common in region of central Poland where people of Vandals once lived. It is also region of Przeworsk archeological culture associated with Vandals. Vandals according to some historians came from nowadays Sweden from the area of Vendel, and it is the same region as Svealand around Stockholm and also the only region in Sweden with higher Z63. Vandals migrated together with Suevi to Spain, one of Vandals tribes Hasdingi were incorporated in Suevic kingdom. So, as we see, Z63 coincide very well both with the Vandali and Suevi, but it very little coincide with Goths. It is not presented in significant numbers in some regions settled with Goths: sothern Ukraine, Italy, southern France, Gotland in Sweden. Also it is presented in Britain where goths never lived. Probably some Goths absorbed groups of Vandals on their way from northern to Southern europe. Maybe that's how we can explain some "crimean Goths" Z63 haplotypes found in southern Russia. Balkan Z63 could be very easily descended from some slavicized germanic tribes of central Europe which together with Slavs in 7th century AD settled on Balkan peninsula. For example Vandali Silingi became Slavic Silesians, there is a lot of such examples. Simo 2013/11/19 Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]> > Your haplotype is an I1 generic at the moment. It fits into no identified > clade. I'd recommend Z58 as your starting snp test if you have not already > done it. > > > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > See: > "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" > "Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-" > "Tree for I1 Z60+" > "Tree for I1 L22+" > "Tree for Isles L161" > "Tree for L38" > "Tree for M223 x Z161" > "Tree for M223+ Z161+ CTS6433+" > "Tree for M223+ Z161+ x CTS6433" > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > "The I1 modalities" > "The M223+ Modalities" > "The L161 Isles Modalities" > > at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Симо > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > > Ken, have you checked haplotypes in your database? > > Sinisa > Време: 16.11.2013 9:21, simo пише: > > > > Ken, > > thank you for informations. I send you excel data as you asked. And > > also I send SNP testing certificate for first haplotype Macura. It is > > all in attachment. > > After you check your database could you suggest what SNPs should be done. > > > > All the best, > > Sinisa > > > > > > 2013/11/16 Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > > It could be generic Z63+ but it also could be many other things. > > Only real > > handle or unusual feature is the 10 at 572. > > It is not member of any clade that I have identified --- I don't > > think. > > > > I'll give it another better look if you send it as a row of an > > excel file > > with the str values in separate column boxes. > > Then I'll add it (just one per surname) to my database and look > > more closely > > for any clade connection. But I doubt it has one. > > As formatted it is much labor for me to enter those str values > > into my excel > > spreadsheet. It is strange; a series of number presented in an email > > sometimes copy/pastes into excel, and other times it does not. In > > this case > > it does not transfer well into excel. All 67 numbers try to go into > a > > single cell. > > > > You probably need a few selected snp tests on one of the two dna > > samples. > > Certainly not both. > > > > > > > > - - - - > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > See: > > "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" > > "Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-" > > "Tree for I1 Z60+" > > "Tree for I1 L22+" > > "Tree for Isles L161" > > "Tree for L38" > > "Tree for M223 x Z161" > > "Tree for M223+ Z161+ CTS6433+" > > "Tree for M223+ Z161+ x CTS6433" > > "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > > "The I1 modalities" > > "The M223+ Modalities" > > "The L161 Isles Modalities" > > > > at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: simo > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 10:30 AM > > To: [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > > > > Ken, > > In Serbian DNA Project we are trying to establish connection between > > genetics and old clan legends to see is there any evidence of common > > origins among the clan members. One of such old clans originally from > > mountains of Montenegro belong to I1 haplogroup. It is clan of > > Macura. In > > Montenegro they are described as Old people and there is many legends > > mostly describing them as very tall and strong. In Montenegro they > are > > practically extinct, but in Dalmatia where they migrated from > > Montenegro > > they survived with surname Macura and some of them we tested with > > practically same results. There is also some Macuras in Poland, > > Ukraine, > > Slovakia and Czech lands. We are not sure are they migrants from > > Balkan or > > they maybe preserved some old north tribal name /Mazur?). > > > > Since the Ostrogoths in 5th and 6th century held great portion of > > Dalmatia > > we doubt that Macuras are remnants of those Goths, which were > > romanized and > > finaly slavicized. > > > > That's why I need help of you , because I am not sure that Macuras > > haplotype belong to Z63 (Z63 were found among some Krimean Goths > > and has > > its Iberian variant where Goths also lived). > > > > So, Ken could you help me and tell which subclade Macuras > > haplotype belong > > to. I have two 67 haplotypes from two different persons belonging to > > Macuras clan. Here they are in FTDNA order: > > > > First: > > > > 13 23 14 10 13 14 11 14 11 12 11 28 16 8 9 8 11 23 16 20 29 12 13 > > 15 16 10 > > 10 19 21 15 14 17 19 35 38 12 10 11 8 15 15 8 11 10 8 9 9 12 23 25 > > 15 10 12 > > 12 15 8 13 27 20 13 13 11 12 10 11 12 11 > > > > Second: > > > > 13 23 14 10 13 14 11 14 11 12 11 29 17 8 9 8 11 23 16 20 29 12 13 > > 15 16 10 > > 10 19 21 15 14 17 20 35 38 12 10 11 8 15 15 8 11 10 8 9 9 12 23 25 > > 15 10 12 > > 12 15 8 13 27 20 13 13 11 12 10 11 12 11 > > > > As you can see, one of things which doesn't fully fit with Z63 is > > DYS459a= > > 8 instead of 7, but on the other hand they are DYS 481=27 which > > fit with > > Z63. > > > > One more thing, First haplotype is SNP tested as M253+ L22- and M227- > > > > Ken, > > > > I would be really grateful if you can help me to designate those > > haplotypes > > in exact subgroups and write some your opinion on them, > > > > Sinisa Yerkovich, > > Administrator of Serbian DNA Project > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kenneth, just thought I would mention on the M223 comparison you have L12 instead of L126. What did you make of the Roots person being Z2055- and the Isles Scots person being Z2069+? Did you not consider Z2300+ in the Isles Scots person of any significance? I see it has been removed from the Cont2a person.

Yes it should be L126, thanks. Z2300 is broken on chromo2 chip; also Z2069 is broken on the chip. Z2055 is reading AA for everyone in haplogroup I (all nine) Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 4:30 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Chromo2 and Hg I Kenneth, just thought I would mention on the M223 comparison you have L12 instead of L126. What did you make of the Roots person being Z2055- and the Isles Scots person being Z2069+? Did you not consider Z2300+ in the Isles Scots person of any significance? I see it has been removed from the Cont2a person. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

PF6143 is in a span of PF numbers (PF5998 to PF6150, corrected) which I reported yesterday to contain many apparent errors as to the ancestral and/or derived values. However, PF6143 (also known as M778) is one of the few correctly reported SNPs in this region, and its G to T (C to A reverse strand) values agree with my Full Genomes result (G-) at position 21499869 of the Y. The ISOGG Y Browser reports it occurred somewhere in Haplogroup R, so a T result in I2, if correct, would represent a second occurrence. PF2642 (C to T, or G to A reverse strand) is reported by the Y Browser to be at the level of FK in the Y Tree, so everyone in I should be derived unless a back mutation has occurred. Full Genomes also reports my PF2642 result as T+. On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 11:37 AM, John O'Grady <[email protected]>wrote: > Full Genomes doesn't cover the high S SNPs such as S7725, because Wilson > hasn't published the positions. > > My G- for PF6143 agrees with the majority CC- (reverse strand), so PF6143 > could split Isles-D. > > My T+ for PF2642 matches AA+ (reverse strand). I guess we will have to > wait for more results. > > John O'Grady > >