It would surely help if you could send me your Geno2 raw data file so I could compare it to the others in my database. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Robert Dozier Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 2:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... That " A Z131+ shows L1439+ " looks like it is mine, #283278, that wasn't schedule to come in until Feb. Btw, I transferred by Geno 2 results earlier in the week, in case that helps. Robert Dozier -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 2:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... A Z131+ shows L1439+ moving this latter snp far upstream. But we are not done yet. There is quite a population of DF29- Z131-, and this includes two clades, AS1212 and AS121210, a cluster, and some generics. All DF29- Z131- generics should test for L1439. A representative from both clades, AS1212 and AS121210, should test for L1439, and a member of the cluster which includes Bowman, kit 194611, Nevader, and Grahm should test for L1439. See the updated “Tree for I1xZ58xL22” for the far upstream part of the I1 Tree and the still questionable node structure. I notice one of the generic DF29- Z131- has ordered L1439 which is good. But the other two generics should probably test as well; there is no clue or hint yet where they branch off the main I1 tree, upstream or downstream of L1439? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That " A Z131+ shows L1439+ " looks like it is mine, #283278, that wasn't schedule to come in until Feb. Btw, I transferred by Geno 2 results earlier in the week, in case that helps. Robert Dozier -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 2:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... A Z131+ shows L1439+ moving this latter snp far upstream. But we are not done yet. There is quite a population of DF29- Z131-, and this includes two clades, AS1212 and AS121210, a cluster, and some generics. All DF29- Z131- generics should test for L1439. A representative from both clades, AS1212 and AS121210, should test for L1439, and a member of the cluster which includes Bowman, kit 194611, Nevader, and Grahm should test for L1439. See the updated “Tree for I1xZ58xL22” for the far upstream part of the I1 Tree and the still questionable node structure. I notice one of the generic DF29- Z131- has ordered L1439 which is good. But the other two generics should probably test as well; there is no clue or hint yet where they branch off the main I1 tree, upstream or downstream of L1439? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What about CTS7362 test? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: LornaMoa Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 4:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1-Z60+ (Z58+, Z59+, Z60+, Z61+, Z62+) consider ordering CTS7362/Z2539, Z140 Hi, Surfacing to see where next please for the kit representing our clutch of matching RUNCIMANs Kit 172347 is shown in the group I1-Z60+ (Z58+, Z59+, Z60+, Z61+, Z62+) consider ordering CTS7362/Z2539, Z140 And has so far tested Z59+, Z60+, Z140-, Z2539- Looking at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/Tree%20for%20I1%20Z60+.pptx (19 Dec) I interpret that as Z60+ is divided by Z140/Z141 and CTS7362/Z2539 I assume that there is no point in testing Z141 if Z140 was negative. ISOGG (18 Jan) shows • • • • • *I1a2a1* S337/Z60, S439/Z61, Z62 • • • • • • *I1a2a1** - • • • • • • *I1a2a1a* S440/Z140, Z141 • • • • • • • *I1a2a1a** - • • • • • • • *I1a2a1a1* S1953/Z2535 • • • • • • • • *I1a2a1a1** - • • • • • • • • *I1a2a1a1a* L338 • • • • • • • • *I1a2a1a1b* CTS10937/Z2538 • • • • • • • *I1a2a1a2* F2642/S2169 • • • • • • *I1a2a1b* S247/Z73 • • • • • • • *I1a2a1b** - • • • • • • • *I1a2a1b1* L1302 • • • • • • *I1a2a1c* L573 • • • • • • *I1a2a1d* L1248 • • • • • • • *I1a2a1d** - • • • • • • • *I1a2a1d1* L803 which indicates (to me) S247/Z73 or L573 or L1248 would be possibilities. Advice please. -- Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Ken, RE: > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they differ statistically on geography? My Y-Search data from 2011 contains DYS406S1 modal values of 8,9,10. A quick spot check shows no 11 and 12 from my (Y-Search) data of two years ago. Maybe a close inspection might show the details better. I have 333 modal groups, but have not yet done your request for the statistics on that data. My old list of countries are (for DYS406S1) geographic modals by country: (Not exclusive to P78) Austria 9 Belarus 9 Belgium 9,10 (3 modal groups in Belgium) Croatia 9 Czech Republic 9 (2 modal groups for Czech Republic) Denmark 8,9,10 (roughly 8 modal groups for Denmark) England 8,9,10 ( roughly 61 modal groups in England) Finland 8,9,10 (roughly 12 modal groups in Finland) France 8,9,10 (roughly 23 modals groups in France) Germany 9,10 (roughly 55 modal groups in Germany) Hungary 9 (2 modal groups for Hungary) Ireland 9 (roughly 23 modal groups in Ireland) Italy 9, (Scott adds 10 below) Lithuania 9 (4 modal groups for Lithuania) Netherlands 9 (roughly 7 modal groups in the Netherlands) Norway 9,10 (roughly 19 modal groups in Norway) Poland 8,9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Poland) Portugal 8,9 Romania 9 Russia 9, 10 (roughly 6 modal groups in Russia) Scotland 9 (roughly 41 modal groups in Scotland) Sicily 9 Slovenia 9 (two modal groups in Slovenia) Spain 9 (three modal groups for Spain) Sweden 9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Sweden) Switzerland 9,10 (roughly 13 modal groups in Switzerland) Turkey 9 Ukraine 10 Wales 9 I believe the above totals to 319 modal groups. I believe I have listed 29 specific geographical areas. Probably safe to presume those that I did not indicate modal total for were a modal group of one. For DYS406S1 = "10" Counting Scott's value of 10 for Italy, that is about ten geographic areas out of 29 geographical areas that have DYS406S1 value of "10." (roughly 35%) And separately, a manual count shows about 16 of my geographical modal groups out of my 319 geographical modal groups (displayed) that have a DYS406S1 value of "10." (Roughly 5% of all groups) Which geographically, probably makes it a nice fit for Danish Vikings and Normans?? Again, I have no geographic data handy for DYS406S1 with values of 11 and 12, aside from what you list below. - Dave ====================================================================== Dave Hamm Franklin, OH HAM Surname DNA Project Coordinator email: [email protected] URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~odoniv/HamCountry/HAMCountry.html ====================================================================== RE: On 1/18/2014 3:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Subject: > Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > From: > "Scott E. Stewart" <[email protected]> > Date: > 1/18/2014 3:06 PM > > To: > <[email protected]> > > > Circone 98520 is DYF406S1=10: > 98520 Circone Italy Italy I2b1c 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 12 13 12 31 17 8-9 > 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-14-15-16 12 9 19-21 16 15 18 19 35-35 12 10 11 8 15-15 > 8 11 10 8 10 9 > -----Original Message----- > From:[email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth > Nordtvedt > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:24 PM > To:[email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > > 406=10 > Novak Dubnany > Schlactmeier (Ger) > Gaezza (Naples It) > Jakovlev (Rus) > Russell > Kara Murza 174263 (Arm) > Giraco (Tk Arm) > Kiriakos > Di Buono (It) > Jackson McCally Miranda > McAnally > Horsman > Sandell (Sw?) > > > > 406=12 > Butler 102316 > Martin > Fowler 288279 > Mullinax > Grimaldi > Bloch Szczodrowski > Chabanian 169454 (Arm) > Budarik (Sorbian) > Smolenyak > Myers > Wujciga > Fischer 192817 > MacDougall > Embody > Olson > Rose > Brewer 44994 > Ei968 Hermans (Neth) > Weliver > Butler > andrews > Germain (Germany) > > Truax > Clist (SW Eng Wales?) > Duguay (France) > Ritscher (Austria, Dresden?) > Mlady Czech > > > > 406=11 > Vanzant > Rockel > YCC61 (Ger) > N87122 Fanoy (France) > Galui (Roma Italy) > Waite > Long 48610 > Torkington > Kuch (Austria) > Ballough (Hun) > ?????? > Bartlett 237946 > Putnam > Spalding > Foster > Essenmacher > Alfred Joseph Sanchez > Fults > Bucher (Sz) > Linville > Knipp (Germany) > Birkoben (Lithuania) > Malinowski (Uk) > Dreisbach > Warren > Kyle > Stewart N86836 > > The above is a division of much of P78 based on DYS406 value. I am sorry my > coloring does not come through. Each of those divisions, 10,11,12 for 406, > is divided into many, many tiny clusters. There is no big clustering or > obvious clades. > P78 must have expanded robustly right from its founder. This mess repeats > itself with the 68-111 panel of STRs which I am equipped to look at > separately. > > What is missing in the above lists? The P78J clade which is actually the > biggest and a definite subclade of P78 really separates nicely from rest of > P78. > > Then I have a bunch of short P78 haplotypes which can't be associated with > any clusters or by DYS406 values. > > Other than P78J, I am not comfortable with any further subclades in P78 > unless you want to push use of "clade" to cover haplotype pairs, triplets, > etc. > > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they > differ statistically on geography? > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt --

It might be that Jesatko may be regular P78 or more like L704+ Singleton Wilson: 105018 Reiley Unknown Origin 14 22 15 10 16-17 11 13 11 13 13 29 16 8-9 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-15-15-16 N38035 Jesatko Czech Republic 14 22 16 10 16-16 11 13 10 13 13 29 16 8-9 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-14-14-16 219897 Vickery(McCubbin) Scotland 14 22 16 10 16-16 11 13 11 13 13 30 18 8-9 11 11 24 14 20 30 14-15-16-16 205447 Holzer Unknown Origin 14 22 16 10 16-17 11 13 11 13 13 29 144750 Kuhn Germany 14 22 16 10 16-17 11 13 11 13 13 29 15 8-9 11 11 23 14 20 27 14-15-15-16 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 11:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Believable Probably too early to say who Jesatko belongs with. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:16 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Believable Do you see Vella, Membrana & Micallef as a Mediterranean subgroup, then Jesatko, Perkins & Rogers as another subgroup and then Macmillan, McMillan, Tanner, McPhee and Cameron as a Scottish subgroup? What age estimates do you have for this cluster's founder and subgroup founders? On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]>wrote: > Vella peels off 1800 years b.p. from rest of the McMillan group in > M223 Tree. > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A Z131+ shows L1439+ moving this latter snp far upstream. But we are not done yet. There is quite a population of DF29- Z131-, and this includes two clades, AS1212 and AS121210, a cluster, and some generics. All DF29- Z131- generics should test for L1439. A representative from both clades, AS1212 and AS121210, should test for L1439, and a member of the cluster which includes Bowman, kit 194611, Nevader, and Grahm should test for L1439. See the updated “Tree for I1xZ58xL22” for the far upstream part of the I1 Tree and the still questionable node structure. I notice one of the generic DF29- Z131- has ordered L1439 which is good. But the other two generics should probably test as well; there is no clue or hint yet where they branch off the main I1 tree, upstream or downstream of L1439? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

I do that segregation now in my database. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hamm Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:37 AM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers Hello Ken, RE: > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they differ statistically on geography? My Y-Search data from 2011 contains DYS406S1 modal values of 8,9,10. A quick spot check shows no 11 and 12 from my (Y-Search) data of two years ago. Maybe a close inspection might show the details better. I have 333 modal groups, but have not yet done your request for the statistics on that data. My old list of countries are (for DYS406S1) geographic modals by country: (Not exclusive to P78) Austria 9 Belarus 9 Belgium 9,10 (3 modal groups in Belgium) Croatia 9 Czech Republic 9 (2 modal groups for Czech Republic) Denmark 8,9,10 (roughly 8 modal groups for Denmark) England 8,9,10 ( roughly 61 modal groups in England) Finland 8,9,10 (roughly 12 modal groups in Finland) France 8,9,10 (roughly 23 modals groups in France) Germany 9,10 (roughly 55 modal groups in Germany) Hungary 9 (2 modal groups for Hungary) Ireland 9 (roughly 23 modal groups in Ireland) Italy 9, (Scott adds 10 below) Lithuania 9 (4 modal groups for Lithuania) Netherlands 9 (roughly 7 modal groups in the Netherlands) Norway 9,10 (roughly 19 modal groups in Norway) Poland 8,9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Poland) Portugal 8,9 Romania 9 Russia 9, 10 (roughly 6 modal groups in Russia) Scotland 9 (roughly 41 modal groups in Scotland) Sicily 9 Slovenia 9 (two modal groups in Slovenia) Spain 9 (three modal groups for Spain) Sweden 9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Sweden) Switzerland 9,10 (roughly 13 modal groups in Switzerland) Turkey 9 Ukraine 10 Wales 9 I believe the above totals to 319 modal groups. I believe I have listed 29 specific geographical areas. Probably safe to presume those that I did not indicate modal total for were a modal group of one. For DYS406S1 = "10" Counting Scott's value of 10 for Italy, that is about ten geographic areas out of 29 geographical areas that have DYS406S1 value of "10." (roughly 35%) And separately, a manual count shows about 16 of my geographical modal groups out of my 319 geographical modal groups (displayed) that have a DYS406S1 value of "10." (Roughly 5% of all groups) Which geographically, probably makes it a nice fit for Danish Vikings and Normans?? Again, I have no geographic data handy for DYS406S1 with values of 11 and 12, aside from what you list below. - Dave ====================================================================== Dave Hamm Franklin, OH HAM Surname DNA Project Coordinator email: [email protected] URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~odoniv/HamCountry/HAMCountry.html ====================================================================== RE: On 1/18/2014 3:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Subject: > Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > From: > "Scott E. Stewart" <[email protected]> > Date: > 1/18/2014 3:06 PM > > To: > <[email protected]> > > > Circone 98520 is DYF406S1=10: > 98520 Circone Italy Italy I2b1c 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 12 13 12 31 17 > 8-9 > 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-14-15-16 12 9 19-21 16 15 18 19 35-35 12 10 11 8 > 15-15 > 8 11 10 8 10 9 > -----Original Message----- > From:[email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth > Nordtvedt > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:24 PM > To:[email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > > 406=10 > Novak Dubnany > Schlactmeier (Ger) > Gaezza (Naples It) > Jakovlev (Rus) > Russell > Kara Murza 174263 (Arm) > Giraco (Tk Arm) > Kiriakos > Di Buono (It) > Jackson McCally Miranda > McAnally > Horsman > Sandell (Sw?) > > > > 406=12 > Butler 102316 > Martin > Fowler 288279 > Mullinax > Grimaldi > Bloch Szczodrowski > Chabanian 169454 (Arm) > Budarik (Sorbian) > Smolenyak > Myers > Wujciga > Fischer 192817 > MacDougall > Embody > Olson > Rose > Brewer 44994 > Ei968 Hermans (Neth) > Weliver > Butler > andrews > Germain (Germany) > > Truax > Clist (SW Eng Wales?) > Duguay (France) > Ritscher (Austria, Dresden?) > Mlady Czech > > > > 406=11 > Vanzant > Rockel > YCC61 (Ger) > N87122 Fanoy (France) > Galui (Roma Italy) > Waite > Long 48610 > Torkington > Kuch (Austria) > Ballough (Hun) > ?????? > Bartlett 237946 > Putnam > Spalding > Foster > Essenmacher > Alfred Joseph Sanchez > Fults > Bucher (Sz) > Linville > Knipp (Germany) > Birkoben (Lithuania) > Malinowski (Uk) > Dreisbach > Warren > Kyle > Stewart N86836 > > The above is a division of much of P78 based on DYS406 value. I am sorry > my > coloring does not come through. Each of those divisions, 10,11,12 for > 406, > is divided into many, many tiny clusters. There is no big clustering or > obvious clades. > P78 must have expanded robustly right from its founder. This mess repeats > itself with the 68-111 panel of STRs which I am equipped to look at > separately. > > What is missing in the above lists? The P78J clade which is actually the > biggest and a definite subclade of P78 really separates nicely from rest > of > P78. > > Then I have a bunch of short P78 haplotypes which can't be associated with > any clusters or by DYS406 values. > > Other than P78J, I am not comfortable with any further subclades in P78 > unless you want to push use of "clade" to cover haplotype pairs, triplets, > etc. > > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they > differ statistically on geography? > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt -- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jesatko is like Watkins: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 11:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Believable Probably too early to say who Jesatko belongs with. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:16 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Believable Do you see Vella, Membrana & Micallef as a Mediterranean subgroup, then Jesatko, Perkins & Rogers as another subgroup and then Macmillan, McMillan, Tanner, McPhee and Cameron as a Scottish subgroup? What age estimates do you have for this cluster's founder and subgroup founders? On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]>wrote: > Vella peels off 1800 years b.p. from rest of the McMillan group in > M223 Tree. > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes Kenneth 293994 Smeaton. On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]>wrote: > kit 293994? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 2:15 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA Haplogroup I-M223 or I2-M223 - Z78, Z171, > Z185,L1198, Z180, Z166, Z187 > > kit number? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 10:43 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA Haplogroup I-M223 or I2-M223 - Z78, Z171, Z185, > L1198, Z180, Z166, Z187 > > The I-M223 Project is still gleaming new information for the odd Geno 2.0 > test results. And we hope to learn a lot more over the coming year from Big > Y, Chromo2 and Full Genomes. > > A member recently transferred his Geno 2.0 data to FTDNA. It showed he was: > > M223+ > CTS616+, CTS9183+ > CTS10057+, CTS10100+ > Z161+ > Z183+ > CTS6433+ > > (Z78) > Z171+ > Z185+ > (L1198) > Z180+, Z166-, Z187-, Z190-. > > (Z78 and L1198 are not on Geno 2.0 chip) > > This was the first result that has separated Z180 from Z166 and Z187 which > were thought to be phyloequivalent. Unfortunately Z180 and Z187 are not in > the FTDNA order list but a request will be made to have them added. > > Like a similar result that separated Z185 and L1198 which is now known to > be downstream of Z185, this latest finding could have implications for > those I-M223 people that have tested Z185+ or L1198+ AND Z166- or Z190-. > > Some members have individually tested Z78+ and Z190- or Z79-. It would be > hoped they could look at some of those SNPs that fall between Z78 and Z190. > Sililarly for those that have tested Z78+ and L1198-. The Continental 1 > sector currently looks like: > > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > Z190 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > Z190 --> Z79 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > Z190 --> PF6654 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > P195 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > F3195 --> > CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> > PF5268 --> > > Email me if you might be considering testing for any SNPs. > > Wayne > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Great! I've marked your entry as pending: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#Z131 Diana > From: Robert Dozier > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 results > > I (#283178) am Z131+ and my L1439 is due Feb 8th. Also submitted for a > CTS5510, but that is not due until March. > > Robert Dozier

AS1 clade L338+ is the largest clade in I1 x L22 It is about 2000 years old back to its founder, it originated in NW Germany and likely among proto-Saxons. It primarily spread to Netherlands and British Isles but is such a huge clade is found a little everywhere in Europe. Today a person from AS1 received his Chromo2 results, and they are exhibited in “Chromo2I1work” in my website linked below. He has many new snps which will surely divide AS1 clade multiple times. His branch is indicated by snps Z2535 and YSC00261 . With AS1 clade being so populous, I am hoping there is another AS1 in the audience who has received his Chromo2 results. If you send them to me I will compare with the other and update “Chromo2I1work” showing the new downstream divisions in AS1 clade. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

I (#283178) am Z131+ and my L1439 is due Feb 8th. Also submitted for a CTS5510, but that is not due until March. Robert Dozier -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 5:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] L1439 results That just leaves someone who is PF49+ and someone who is Z131+ to test it: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_haplotree.html Diana > From: K S Harris > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 11:31 AM > To: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > FTDNA was fast this time*!* > > The result of my L1439 test is back already. It's positive, rather > than negative though. So my line-up is > > (I-M253) DF29+, L1237+, *L1439+*, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+ > > and > > CTS7416-, L1243-, L22-, L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- > > > Best, > Keith > 49061 / Q5ECQ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That just leaves someone who is PF49+ and someone who is Z131+ to test it: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_haplotree.html Diana > From: K S Harris > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 11:31 AM > To: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > FTDNA was fast this time*!* > > The result of my L1439 test is back already. It's positive, rather than > negative though. So my line-up is > > (I-M253) DF29+, L1237+, *L1439+*, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+ > > and > > CTS7416-, L1243-, L22-, L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- > > > Best, > Keith > 49061 / Q5ECQ

kit 293994? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 2:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA Haplogroup I-M223 or I2-M223 - Z78, Z171, Z185,L1198, Z180, Z166, Z187 kit number? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 10:43 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA Haplogroup I-M223 or I2-M223 - Z78, Z171, Z185, L1198, Z180, Z166, Z187 The I-M223 Project is still gleaming new information for the odd Geno 2.0 test results. And we hope to learn a lot more over the coming year from Big Y, Chromo2 and Full Genomes. A member recently transferred his Geno 2.0 data to FTDNA. It showed he was: M223+ > CTS616+, CTS9183+ > CTS10057+, CTS10100+ > Z161+ > Z183+ > CTS6433+ > (Z78) > Z171+ > Z185+ > (L1198) > Z180+, Z166-, Z187-, Z190-. (Z78 and L1198 are not on Geno 2.0 chip) This was the first result that has separated Z180 from Z166 and Z187 which were thought to be phyloequivalent. Unfortunately Z180 and Z187 are not in the FTDNA order list but a request will be made to have them added. Like a similar result that separated Z185 and L1198 which is now known to be downstream of Z185, this latest finding could have implications for those I-M223 people that have tested Z185+ or L1198+ AND Z166- or Z190-. Some members have individually tested Z78+ and Z190- or Z79-. It would be hoped they could look at some of those SNPs that fall between Z78 and Z190. Sililarly for those that have tested Z78+ and L1198-. The Continental 1 sector currently looks like: CTS6433 --> Z78 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> Z190 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> Z190 --> Z79 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> Z190 --> PF6654 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> P195 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> F3195 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> PF5268 --> Email me if you might be considering testing for any SNPs. Wayne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

kit number? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 10:43 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] Y-DNA Haplogroup I-M223 or I2-M223 - Z78, Z171, Z185, L1198, Z180, Z166, Z187 The I-M223 Project is still gleaming new information for the odd Geno 2.0 test results. And we hope to learn a lot more over the coming year from Big Y, Chromo2 and Full Genomes. A member recently transferred his Geno 2.0 data to FTDNA. It showed he was: M223+ > CTS616+, CTS9183+ > CTS10057+, CTS10100+ > Z161+ > Z183+ > CTS6433+ > (Z78) > Z171+ > Z185+ > (L1198) > Z180+, Z166-, Z187-, Z190-. (Z78 and L1198 are not on Geno 2.0 chip) This was the first result that has separated Z180 from Z166 and Z187 which were thought to be phyloequivalent. Unfortunately Z180 and Z187 are not in the FTDNA order list but a request will be made to have them added. Like a similar result that separated Z185 and L1198 which is now known to be downstream of Z185, this latest finding could have implications for those I-M223 people that have tested Z185+ or L1198+ AND Z166- or Z190-. Some members have individually tested Z78+ and Z190- or Z79-. It would be hoped they could look at some of those SNPs that fall between Z78 and Z190. Sililarly for those that have tested Z78+ and L1198-. The Continental 1 sector currently looks like: CTS6433 --> Z78 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> Z190 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> Z190 --> Z79 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> Z190 --> PF6654 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> P195 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> F3195 --> CTS6433 --> Z78 --> Z171 --> Z185 --> L1198 --> Z180 --> Z166, Z187 --> PF5268 --> Email me if you might be considering testing for any SNPs. Wayne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Circone 98520 is DYF406S1=10: 98520 Circone Italy Italy I2b1c 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 12 13 12 31 17 8-9 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-14-15-16 12 9 19-21 16 15 18 19 35-35 12 10 11 8 15-15 8 11 10 8 10 9 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers 406=10 Novak Dubnany Schlactmeier (Ger) Gaezza (Naples It) Jakovlev (Rus) Russell Kara Murza 174263 (Arm) Giraco (Tk Arm) Kiriakos Di Buono (It) Jackson McCally Miranda McAnally Horsman Sandell (Sw?) 406=12 Butler 102316 Martin Fowler 288279 Mullinax Grimaldi Bloch Szczodrowski Chabanian 169454 (Arm) Budarik (Sorbian) Smolenyak Myers Wujciga Fischer 192817 MacDougall Embody Olson Rose Brewer 44994 Ei968 Hermans (Neth) Weliver Butler andrews Germain (Germany) Truax Clist (SW Eng Wales?) Duguay (France) Ritscher (Austria, Dresden?) Mlady Czech 406=11 Vanzant Rockel YCC61 (Ger) N87122 Fanoy (France) Galui (Roma Italy) Waite Long 48610 Torkington Kuch (Austria) Ballough (Hun) ?????? Bartlett 237946 Putnam Spalding Foster Essenmacher Alfred Joseph Sanchez Fults Bucher (Sz) Linville Knipp (Germany) Birkoben (Lithuania) Malinowski (Uk) Dreisbach Warren Kyle Stewart N86836 The above is a division of much of P78 based on DYS406 value. I am sorry my coloring does not come through. Each of those divisions, 10,11,12 for 406, is divided into many, many tiny clusters. There is no big clustering or obvious clades. P78 must have expanded robustly right from its founder. This mess repeats itself with the 68-111 panel of STRs which I am equipped to look at separately. What is missing in the above lists? The P78J clade which is actually the biggest and a definite subclade of P78 really separates nicely from rest of P78. Then I have a bunch of short P78 haplotypes which can't be associated with any clusters or by DYS406 values. Other than P78J, I am not comfortable with any further subclades in P78 unless you want to push use of "clade" to cover haplotype pairs, triplets, etc. One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they differ statistically on geography? - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-" "Tree for I1 Z60+" "Tree for I1 L22+" "Tree for Isles L161" "Tree for L38" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+ CTS6433+" "Tree for M223+ Z161+ x CTS6433" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" "The L161 Isles Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Scott E. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers KN, I believe that Wayne invited all of the DYS385=13-16 P78s on your list below who aren't in the M223 Project to join and we now have Foster 43377. Now I can see your DYS385=13-16 P78 clade with the English-Welsh Bartlett 237946, Putnam 46684, and Foster 43377 and I can see what you mean about there not being many P78 clades. It's still not clear to me whether DYS385=13-16 P78 Linville N113686 or Essenmacher 194914 would be in this clade. 43377 Foster England 13 23 15 10 13-16 11 13 12 13 12 29 16 8-9 11 237946 Bartlett Wales 13 23 15 10 13-16 11 13 12 13 12 29 16 9-9 11 46684 Putnam England 13 23 15 10 13-16 11 13 13 13 12 29 16 8-9 11 Also, P78 Rockel from Lithuania joined the M223 Project recently and I was wondering whether you thought that he might be in a clade with maybe Winkler N97389, Grimaldi 256076, Garcia 154462, or Chabanian 169454? 302548 Rockel 15 23 15 10 16-17 11 13 11 14 12 29 15 8-10 11 11 24 14 20 28 N97389 Winkler 15 23 15 10 16-16 11 13 11 14 12 29 16 8-10 11 11 24 14 20 28 256076 Grimaldi 15 23 15 10 16-16 11 13 11 14 12 30 16 8-9 11 11 24 14 20 27 169454 Chabanian 13 23 15 10 16-16 11 13 12 13 11 29 16 8-10 11 11 24 15 20 31 154462 Garcia 15 24 15 10 16-16 11 13 11 14 12 30 18 8-10 11 11 24 14 20 28 Thanks for your thoughts, Scott -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 3:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers Bartlett 237946 Putnam Spalding Foster Essenmacher Alfred Joseph Sanchez Fults Bucher (Sz) Linville Here's one suggestion concerning P78+ The above surnames are for haplotypes in my P78+ collection with DYS385a = 13, a value which stands out in overall P78+ Only Putnam has 111 markers. Some of those have only 37 markers. Putnam has some unusual marker values in 68-111. If people don't want to buy whole new STR panels which would be best, they should especially buy DYS556, also DYS532 and DYS716. For those of the above who have only 37 markers and won't expand their haplotypes, do DYS511 which is unique for this cluster so far. I'll offer some other particularly interesting haplotype upgrades in P78+ in coming hours or days. I collect my haplotypes from hundreds of surname projects and regional projects and ancestry and smgf, but I did not make habit of keeping a tab of where I got each one. If you have a surname and it is not in M223 project for this clade, check the surname projects. But in general we need more expansions by everyone to 67 and 111 markers. And this is always useful information for the hobbyist unlike many snp test results which are so expected they tell one nothing new. You always learn more from expanding haplotypes. The Jewish clade in P78 has a few expansions to 111 markers but from people very close to each other. More diversity of 111 marker haplotypes among this mainly eastern Europe population is needed. The Jewish clade also has several very clear new identifiers amont the 68-111 markers: DYS513=10, DYS532=11, DYS525=12, DYS522=13, DYS495=16. This suggests the Jewish clade branched from P78+ early. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-" "Tree for I1 Z60+" "Tree for I1 L22+" "Tree for Isles L161" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+ CTS6433+" "Tree for M223+ Z161+ x CTS6433" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" "The L161 Isles Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Scott E. Stewart Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 12:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers Dr. Nordtvedt, Please let us know if you're aware of P78+ Cont-3 people in other FTDNA Projects or otherwise out there who haven't joined the FTDNA I-M223+ Project so that we may ask them to join and further diversify I-M223+ the P78+ Cont-3 group in the FTDNA I-M223+ Project? Also, as you're looking P78+ at the haplotypes, if you see specific areas where we need to upgrade STR markers, please let us know the particular kit numbers or group so that we can make sure that we get additional STRs there? Thank you very much for all of your help with the P78+ Cont-3 haplotypes, Scott -----Original Message----- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looks like L1439 is derived in CTS6364, Z58 and Z63 now.

I got another renditions of positives but no raw data yet for a Chromo2 person who is clearly I1 AS1 YSC00261 L338+ See updated “Chromo2I1work” This AS1 fellow has many new snps; I have just picked out some obvious ones from the renditions; scan of raw data will be needed to make list complete. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

FTDNA was fast this time*!* The result of my L1439 test is back already. It's positive, rather than negative though. So my line-up is (I-M253) DF29+, L1237+, *L1439+*, L840+, M253+, P30+, Z63+ and CTS7416-, L1243-, L22-, L338-, M21-, M227-, P109-, P259-, Z131-, Z58- Best, Keith 49061 / Q5ECQ ================================= On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <[email protected]>wrote: > Absolutely. And you'd add much knowledge to the tree, especially if you > came out L1439- > > All the best for 2014 to you. > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- From: K S Harris > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 12:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 11:02 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Unbelievable > > There are no tests pending in the I1 project for L1439 from someone in the > Z63+ haplogroup. After the many discussions people had about “where” or > “how far upstream” in the I1 tree is L1439, it is hard to believe there are > no orders. > Maybe someone from outside the I1 project and Z63+ has ordered L1439? > > I notice FTDNA has slipped the expected time of BigY results again by a > couple weeks. > > Speaking of the Big Y, FTDNA indicated they are covering 10 millions site > on the Y. Did they state which 10 million sites they were covering, such > as beginning position[s] and end position[s]. > There is a reason why this information would be useful to have right now, > but I won’t get into it this morning. > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net >

I sent Family Tree DNA a message saying that there is a discrepancy on the second number of DYS385 between the two tests and will see what they say. Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 07:17:51 +0100 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Kittler Test > > How about asking FTDNA for an explanation/double check? > > N. > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:43:06 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Kittler Test > > > > > > I'm I-P109 and my result for DYS 385 was 14-15. So a while ago I decided to do a Kittler Test and I just got my result which was 14-16. I assume that this means that I'm low/high, but shouldn't it have been 14-15? > > > > Matthew Simonds > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message