Becky - Could the following line have any bearing on this Wynne-Morgan-Thelwall problem? Descendants of Alice Thelwell 1 Alice Thelwell b: in Plas y Ward +Harri Ap Cynric m: Abt. 1510 b: Abt. 1485 in Yskeviog, Wales 2 John Wynne ap Harri b: in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: Bef. 1572 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales +Katherine Jenkins m: Abt. 1535 3 Rees Ap John Wynne b: Abt. 1538 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: Aft. 1592 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales 4 John Ap Rees Wynne b: Abt. 1570 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: Bef. 1640 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales +Grace Morgan m: 29 Oct 1588 5 Thomas Ap John Wynne b: Dec 1589 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: 1639 in Bronvadog, Flintshire, Wales 6 Dr._Thomas Wynne This line is from "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants", Vol II. pp. 329-330. Note also, that according to this data, Dr. T's paternal grandmother was a Morgan. Cuz Chris of Just South of Cuzzes Ida and David On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Becky Thill <ttg-inc@tx.rr.com> wrote: > Dear Cuz Connie, aka SHREK > I have never been able to figure out how this connects to us even though in > the family bible chart that Hazel in Wales sent me shows this Thelwall of > Golden Grove to be related to US.... ARGHHh... > Love Cuz Becky > > What I have in my data base is: > > This is one line, Please note generation 5, John Thelwall b 1584 and wife > Jane Morgan b Gwylgre Golden Grove Tegeingl, Wales.... > This is the Morgan line.... BUT Below this I will also show that this same > Generation 5, John Thelwall's line seen below.. goes to the Wynne's > also...See it below the Morgan line.... > Morgan line: > 1. John Wynne ap Cynric > 2. Hugh ap John > 3. Elin [Ellen] verch Hugh/+ Thomas Edward Morgan > 4. Edward Morgan of Golden Grove > 5. John Thelwall b 1584 Plascoch, Llanhychan d. 3/28/1664/+ Jane > Morgan b. Gwylgre Golden Grove, Tegeingl, Wales ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 274, 369. > p. > 369, John Thelwall, of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch, H.S.D. 1643, ob. 1664, > aged 79 = Jane, d. of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove) in Tegeingl. > p. 314.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, > Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 313, p. 314. p. 313; 1. > John > Thelwall of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch. > p. 314; John Thelwall of Plas Coch and Bathafarn Park, died in 1664, aged > 79. He married Jane, daughter of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove), > in > Tegeingl, Esq. by whom he had issue.] [Wynnstay MS 143, NLW, transcribed by > Kay Allen, A.G., John = Jane f. Edward Morgan.] > 6. Eubule Thelwall/+ Mary Parry [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Eubule Thelwall, Bar. at law, Gary's > Inn, jure uxoris of Nantclwyd = Mary, d. and h's of William Parry, of Pont > Y > Gof, or Nantclwyd.] [Wynnstay MS 143, NLW, transcribed by Kay Allen, A.G., > Eubulo, a lawyer of Grays Inn d. 4 Feb. 1694, aged 73 = Maru Dtr. and > heiress of William Parry; d. 6 January 1698 aged 38.] > 6. Catherine Thelwall b. Bathafarn, N. Wales/+ John Wynne > ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards > Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Catherine Thelwall = John Wynn, of Copa 'r > Goleuni. ] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y > Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 314.] [Wynnstay MS > 143, NLW, transcribed by Kay Allen, A.G., Elizabeth Thelwall = John Wyn of > Copperline.] > 6. Elizabeth Thelwall/+ Charles Salusbury [The History of Powys > Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. > 9865, fo. 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire > Families" > by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Elizabeth Thelwall = Charles > Salusbury, of Pool Park, ap William, of Rug. p. 59.] > 6. Mary Thelwall/+ Pierce Conway [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Mary Thelwall = Pierce Conwy, of > Rhuddlan.] > 6. Martha Thelwall/+ Peter Williams ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Martha > Thelwall = Peter Williams, of Plas Onn.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] > 6. Judith Thelwall/+ Eubule Hughes [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Judith Thelwall = Eubule Hughes, of > Disserth.] > 6. Sarah Thelwall/+ Rowland White ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Sarah > Thelwall = Rowland White, of Ruthin.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] > 6.Hester Thelwall/+ Mathew Pryse [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Hester Thelwall = Mathew Pryse, of > Park, > co. Montgomery.] > 6. Jane Thelwall/+ John dolben ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Jane > Thelwall, ob 1684 = John Dolben ap William Dolben, of Segrwyd, H.S.D. 1632 > children on p. 160.] > 6. Dorothy Thelwall/+ John Griffith ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. > Dorothy > Thelwall = John Griffith, of Bloxham.] > 6. John Thelwall/+ > 6. 10 sons 2 daughters died young Thelwall [The History of Powys > Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. > 9865, fo. 81., p. 314.] > > The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys > Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 313, 314, 369. p. 313; 1. John > Thelwall of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch. > p. 314; John Thelwall of Plas Coch and Bathafarn Park, died in 1664, aged > 79. He married Jane, daughter of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove), > in > Tegeingl, Esq. by whom he had issue. > > Thelwall Line: > 1. Sion Ap Meredydd [John Wyn] b. 1495, Gwydir d. 7/9/1559 Plas Mawr, > Conway, N. Wales/+ Elen [Elin] ferch Morus Lloyd d. abt 1572 > 2. Morys [Maurice/Morris] Wynne b, 1529 Gwydyr [Gwynedd], > Caernarvonshire, Wales d. 8/10/1580 Carnarvon, Wales/+ Jane [Janett] > Bulkely > m. 1548 Carnarvonshire, Wales. > 3. Sir John Wynne b. 1553 Gwynedd, Caernary, Caernarvon, Wales d. > 3/1/19627 Llanrwst, Denbigh, Wales, burial 3/2/1627 Gwydyr Chapel, Church > of > Dolwyddelan, Llanrwst, Carnarvonshire, Wales/+ Sidney Sarah Gerrard b abt > 1560 Ireland, d. 6/8/1632 Gwydyr, Caernarvonshire, Wales buried Gwydyr > Chapel, Church of Dolwyddelan, Llanrwst, Carnarvonshire, Wales > 4. John Thelwall b. Grays Inn, Plascoch d. 9/28/1686/+ Elizabeth > Verch John Wynn b. 1577, Bryn Cynwrig, Wales > 5. John Thelwall b 1584 Plascoch, Llanhychan d. 3/28/1664/+ Jane > Morgan b. Gwylgre Golden Grove, Tegeingl, Wales ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 274, 369. > p. > 369, John Thelwall, of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch, H.S.D. 1643, ob. 1664, > aged 79 = Jane, d. of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove) in Tegeingl. > p. 314.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, > Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 313, p. 314. p. 313; 1. > John > Thelwall of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch. > p. 314; John Thelwall of Plas Coch and Bathafarn Park, died in 1664, aged > 79. He married Jane, daughter of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove), > in > Tegeingl, Esq. by whom he had issue.] [Wynnstay MS 143, NLW, transcribed by > Kay Allen, A.G., John = Jane f. Edward Morgan.] > > > BUT I have never been able to figure this out even though in the family > bible chart that Hazel in Wales sent me shows this Thelwall of Golden Grove > to be related to US.... ARGHHh... > Love Cuz Becky > >
Dear Cuz Chris, That was exactly the line we had been talking about, but we are trying to find a direct male YDNA Morgan to match it... Hugs Cuz B Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, But rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Wow, What a RIDE!!". -----Original Message----- From: wynne-genealogy-society-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:wynne-genealogy-society-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 12:48 AM To: wynne-genealogy-society@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WGS] Wynne and Morgan YDNA match Becky - Could the following line have any bearing on this Wynne-Morgan-Thelwall problem? Descendants of Alice Thelwell 1 Alice Thelwell b: in Plas y Ward +Harri Ap Cynric m: Abt. 1510 b: Abt. 1485 in Yskeviog, Wales 2 John Wynne ap Harri b: in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: Bef. 1572 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales +Katherine Jenkins m: Abt. 1535 3 Rees Ap John Wynne b: Abt. 1538 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: Aft. 1592 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales 4 John Ap Rees Wynne b: Abt. 1570 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: Bef. 1640 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales +Grace Morgan m: 29 Oct 1588 5 Thomas Ap John Wynne b: Dec 1589 in Yskeviog, Flintshire, Wales d: 1639 in Bronvadog, Flintshire, Wales 6 Dr._Thomas Wynne This line is from "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants", Vol II. pp. 329-330. Note also, that according to this data, Dr. T's paternal grandmother was a Morgan. Cuz Chris of Just South of Cuzzes Ida and David On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Becky Thill <ttg-inc@tx.rr.com> wrote: > Dear Cuz Connie, aka SHREK > I have never been able to figure out how this connects to us even though in > the family bible chart that Hazel in Wales sent me shows this Thelwall of > Golden Grove to be related to US.... ARGHHh... > Love Cuz Becky > > What I have in my data base is: > > This is one line, Please note generation 5, John Thelwall b 1584 and wife > Jane Morgan b Gwylgre Golden Grove Tegeingl, Wales.... > This is the Morgan line.... BUT Below this I will also show that this same > Generation 5, John Thelwall's line seen below.. goes to the Wynne's > also...See it below the Morgan line.... > Morgan line: > 1. John Wynne ap Cynric > 2. Hugh ap John > 3. Elin [Ellen] verch Hugh/+ Thomas Edward Morgan > 4. Edward Morgan of Golden Grove > 5. John Thelwall b 1584 Plascoch, Llanhychan d. 3/28/1664/+ Jane > Morgan b. Gwylgre Golden Grove, Tegeingl, Wales ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 274, 369. > p. > 369, John Thelwall, of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch, H.S.D. 1643, ob. 1664, > aged 79 = Jane, d. of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove) in Tegeingl. > p. 314.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, > Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 313, p. 314. p. 313; 1. > John > Thelwall of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch. > p. 314; John Thelwall of Plas Coch and Bathafarn Park, died in 1664, aged > 79. He married Jane, daughter of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove), > in > Tegeingl, Esq. by whom he had issue.] [Wynnstay MS 143, NLW, transcribed by > Kay Allen, A.G., John = Jane f. Edward Morgan.] > 6. Eubule Thelwall/+ Mary Parry [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Eubule Thelwall, Bar. at law, Gary's > Inn, jure uxoris of Nantclwyd = Mary, d. and h's of William Parry, of Pont > Y > Gof, or Nantclwyd.] [Wynnstay MS 143, NLW, transcribed by Kay Allen, A.G., > Eubulo, a lawyer of Grays Inn d. 4 Feb. 1694, aged 73 = Maru Dtr. and > heiress of William Parry; d. 6 January 1698 aged 38.] > 6. Catherine Thelwall b. Bathafarn, N. Wales/+ John Wynne > ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards > Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Catherine Thelwall = John Wynn, of Copa 'r > Goleuni. ] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y > Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 314.] [Wynnstay MS > 143, NLW, transcribed by Kay Allen, A.G., Elizabeth Thelwall = John Wyn of > Copperline.] > 6. Elizabeth Thelwall/+ Charles Salusbury [The History of Powys > Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. > 9865, fo. 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire > Families" > by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Elizabeth Thelwall = Charles > Salusbury, of Pool Park, ap William, of Rug. p. 59.] > 6. Mary Thelwall/+ Pierce Conway [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Mary Thelwall = Pierce Conwy, of > Rhuddlan.] > 6. Martha Thelwall/+ Peter Williams ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Martha > Thelwall = Peter Williams, of Plas Onn.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] > 6. Judith Thelwall/+ Eubule Hughes [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Judith Thelwall = Eubule Hughes, of > Disserth.] > 6. Sarah Thelwall/+ Rowland White ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Sarah > Thelwall = Rowland White, of Ruthin.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] > 6.Hester Thelwall/+ Mathew Pryse [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, > 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. > 81., p. 314.] ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families" by John > Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Hester Thelwall = Mathew Pryse, of > Park, > co. Montgomery.] > 6. Jane Thelwall/+ John dolben ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. Jane > Thelwall, ob 1684 = John Dolben ap William Dolben, of Segrwyd, H.S.D. 1632 > children on p. 160.] > 6. Dorothy Thelwall/+ John Griffith ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 369. > Dorothy > Thelwall = John Griffith, of Bloxham.] > 6. John Thelwall/+ > 6. 10 sons 2 daughters died young Thelwall [The History of Powys > Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. > 9865, fo. 81., p. 314.] > > The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, Lewys > Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 313, 314, 369. p. 313; 1. John > Thelwall of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch. > p. 314; John Thelwall of Plas Coch and Bathafarn Park, died in 1664, aged > 79. He married Jane, daughter of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove), > in > Tegeingl, Esq. by whom he had issue. > > Thelwall Line: > 1. Sion Ap Meredydd [John Wyn] b. 1495, Gwydir d. 7/9/1559 Plas Mawr, > Conway, N. Wales/+ Elen [Elin] ferch Morus Lloyd d. abt 1572 > 2. Morys [Maurice/Morris] Wynne b, 1529 Gwydyr [Gwynedd], > Caernarvonshire, Wales d. 8/10/1580 Carnarvon, Wales/+ Jane [Janett] > Bulkely > m. 1548 Carnarvonshire, Wales. > 3. Sir John Wynne b. 1553 Gwynedd, Caernary, Caernarvon, Wales d. > 3/1/19627 Llanrwst, Denbigh, Wales, burial 3/2/1627 Gwydyr Chapel, Church > of > Dolwyddelan, Llanrwst, Carnarvonshire, Wales/+ Sidney Sarah Gerrard b abt > 1560 Ireland, d. 6/8/1632 Gwydyr, Caernarvonshire, Wales buried Gwydyr > Chapel, Church of Dolwyddelan, Llanrwst, Carnarvonshire, Wales > 4. John Thelwall b. Grays Inn, Plascoch d. 9/28/1686/+ Elizabeth > Verch John Wynn b. 1577, Bryn Cynwrig, Wales > 5. John Thelwall b 1584 Plascoch, Llanhychan d. 3/28/1664/+ Jane > Morgan b. Gwylgre Golden Grove, Tegeingl, Wales ["Pedigrees of Anglesey and > Carnarvonshire Families" by John Edwards Griffith, 1914 ed., p. 274, 369. > p. > 369, John Thelwall, of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch, H.S.D. 1643, ob. 1664, > aged 79 = Jane, d. of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove) in Tegeingl. > p. 314.] [The History of Powys Fadog, IV, 305-22, "Thelwall of Plas Y Ward, > Lewys Dwnn, vol ii; Harl. MS. 9865, fo. 81., p. 313, p. 314. p. 313; 1. > John > Thelwall of Bathafarn Park and Plas Coch. > p. 314; John Thelwall of Plas Coch and Bathafarn Park, died in 1664, aged > 79. He married Jane, daughter of Edward Morgan of Gwylgre (Golden Grove), > in > Tegeingl, Esq. by whom he had issue.] [Wynnstay MS 143, NLW, transcribed by > Kay Allen, A.G., John = Jane f. Edward Morgan.] > > > BUT I have never been able to figure this out even though in the family > bible chart that Hazel in Wales sent me shows this Thelwall of Golden Grove > to be related to US.... ARGHHh... > Love Cuz Becky > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WYNNE-GENEALOGY-SOCIETY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5744 (20101229) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5744 (20101229) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com