You are most welcome You can only imagine the thoughts and emotions they provoked My grandfather died shortly after Joseph on the 24th November 1918, I have his dead mans penny, kings scroll and letter plus the cardboard roll container that held the scroll & letter, addressed to my grandmother I can only but think of the pain that she felt when she received it, my mother had just turned six by a few weeks Joseph LAWLEYs service records are perhaps one of the most complete I have seen so well worth checking out Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 13/02/2013 20:56, Patricia Treves wrote: > You are very kind to send me all this information. Thank you. Alice must > have received the returned items with mixed emotions. > > Paddy

You are very kind to send me all this information. Thank you. Alice must have received the returned items with mixed emotions. Paddy On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> wrote: > > Just a small poignant addition > > Something I have not often seen in the service records > > There is a receipt in the service documents, itemizing the return to > Alice of > > 1 Purse > Letters > 1 Matchbox Case > 1 Pair of scissors > 1 Cap badge > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > >>> I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are > >>> commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One > >>> man > >>> with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. > >>> He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New > >>> Road, CM > >>> with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him > >>> recorded > >>> in CWSG. > >>> There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just a small poignant addition Something I have not often seen in the service records There is a receipt in the service documents, itemizing the return to Alice of 1 Purse Letters 1 Matchbox Case 1 Pair of scissors 1 Cap badge Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >>> I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are >>> commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One >>> man >>> with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. >>> He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New >>> Road, CM >>> with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him >>> recorded >>> in CWSG. >>> There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391.

Hi Paddy If the man who has a widow Alice is this one LAWLEY, JOSEPH THOMAS Rank: Private Service No: 26609 Date of Death: 20/09/1918 Age: 36 Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 1st Bn. Panel Reference Panel 7. Memorial VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL Additional Information: Husband of Alice Lawley, of High St., Wombourne, Wolverhampton, Staffs. He is in the Soldiers died database as UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 about Joseph Thomas Lawley Name: Joseph Thomas Lawley Residence: Wombourne, Staffs Death Date: 20 Sep 1918 Death Location: France & Flanders Enlistment Location: Wolverhampton, Staffs Rank: Private Regiment: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment Battalion: 1st Battalion Number: 26609 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre Comments: Formerly 4954, D.L.I Source Information: Military-Genealogy.com, comp. UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008. Original data: British and Irish Military Databases. The Naval and Military Press Ltd. As has been mentioned, men often served in more than one regiment In the 1891 he is incorrectly transcribed as LAWLEY , he was enumerated as BRIDGEWATER (it shows ditto below Emma for Martha & Joseph) 1891 England Census about Joseph Lawley Name: Joseph Lawley Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888 Relation: Son Father's Name: George Lawley Gender: Male Where born: Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, England Civil parish: Cleobury Mortimer Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Cleobury Mortimer County/Island: Shropshire Country: England Registration district: Cleobury Mortimer Sub-registration district: Cleobury Mortimer ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: Piece: 2091 Folio: 17 Page Number: 27 Household Members: Name Age George Lawley 31 Emma Bridgwater 26 Martha Lawley 10 Joseph Lawley 3 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2091; Folio: 17; Page: 27; GSU roll: 6097201. His birth appears to be registered as follows England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Thomas Joseph L Bridgewater Name: Thomas Joseph L Bridgewater Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1887 Registration district: Cleobury Mortimer Inferred County: Shropshire Volume: 6a Page: 678 So his first name was Thomas but they used Joseph by the looks of it His wife to be in 1916 was a widow in 1911 1911 England Census about Alice Saunders Name: Alice Saunders Age in 1911: 41 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relation to Head: Widow Gender: Female Birth Place: Froomes, Hill, Shropshire Civil parish: Wombourn County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address: Windmill Bank, Wombourn Marital Status: Married Registration district: Wolverhampton Registration District Number: 369 Sub-registration district: Wombourn ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 137 Piece: 17001 Household Members: Name Age Alice Saunders 41 Alfred Saunders 15 Hubert Saunders 6 Winifred Saunders 3 Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 17001; Schedule Number: 137; . There are several pages of his service record on Ancestry Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 13/02/2013 17:07, Patricia Treves wrote: > Thank you for your interest. You have clarified my thoughts.......Joseph > was born in Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, 1888. I believe that his second > name is Thomas. In the 1911 census he was a boarder in Heaton Park ,near > Manchester, occupation "navvy". In 1916 he married Alice Saunders in > Wolverhampton.Her name appears as his wife in CWGC. I was interested in > your observation that men can be in different regiments. I already have > details that a Joseph Lawley was registered as "Short service" in 1915. > In the WW1 Medal Rolls J T Lawley is numbered as 4954 and 26609. Durham LI > & Loyal North Lancashire. However from CWGC the date of death 1918, aged 36 > does not tie in with his birth 1888. It then occurred to me that perhaps a > mistake was made and it should have been age 30 not 36.. 0 and 6 can look > alike. > > Paddy >> >> I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are >> commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man >> with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. >> He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM >> with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded >> in CWSG. >> There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391.

Thank you for your interest. You have clarified my thoughts.......Joseph was born in Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, 1888. I believe that his second name is Thomas. In the 1911 census he was a boarder in Heaton Park ,near Manchester, occupation "navvy". In 1916 he married Alice Saunders in Wolverhampton.Her name appears as his wife in CWGC. I was interested in your observation that men can be in different regiments. I already have details that a Joseph Lawley was registered as "Short service" in 1915. In the WW1 Medal Rolls J T Lawley is numbered as 4954 and 26609. Durham LI & Loyal North Lancashire. However from CWGC the date of death 1918, aged 36 does not tie in with his birth 1888. It then occurred to me that perhaps a mistake was made and it should have been age 30 not 36.. 0 and 6 can look alike. Paddy On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Peter Fellowes <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com > wrote: > Patricia, > > Does your Joseph Lawley have a middle name? and also do you know his place > of birth?. > > SWD CD shows four J Lawley. > > 2 x Joseph Lawley, 1 Joseph Isaac Lawley and 1 Joseph Thomas Lawley. > > Don't get hung up by falling into the trap thinking he came from Shropshire > so must serve in a Shropshire regiment; by December 1914 and certainly very > early 1915 men were sent to regiments and corps where they were needed as > numerical reinforcements or if the man had a specialist trade or calling. > Often throughout the war men were moved from regiment to regiment as > required. > > Regards > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: 12 February 2013 08:01 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: War Memorial (Michael Allbrook) > 2. Re: War Memorial (David Railton) > 3. Re: War Memorial (Patricia Treves) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:35:50 -0000 > From: "Michael Allbrook" <michael@allbrook.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > To: <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <008701ce086d$78e9aa80$6abcff80$@allbrook.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the > services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died > so > their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them > on > the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC > database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Patricia Treves > Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 > To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are > commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man > with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. > He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM > with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded > in CWSG. > There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:04:48 -0000 > From: "David Railton" <railton.david@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > To: <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <005a01ce0871$8880c470$99824d50$@btinternet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > War memorials in some towns list all who served not just those killed in > action. I don't know if this applies to Cleobury Mortimer. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Michael Allbrook > Sent: 11 February 2013 15:36 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the > services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died > so > their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them > on > the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC > database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Patricia Treves > Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 > To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are > commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man > with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. > He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM > with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded > in CWSG. > There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:02:43 +0000 > From: Patricia Treves <ptreves164@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > < > CA+BbZrDpizGwH-_MbUEQao6FhiCWTjx6p0JU963Wiu8hm9trtA@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Thank you for your interest. I do have recorded one soldier who died from > his injuries in a "Home" so I will check the civilian deaths. > > Paddy > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 4:04 PM, David Railton < > railton.david@btinternet.com > > wrote: > > > War memorials in some towns list all who served not just those killed > > in action. I don't know if this applies to Cleobury Mortimer. > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Michael Allbrook > > Sent: 11 February 2013 15:36 > > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > > > Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the > > services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they > > died so their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities > > included them on the War Memorials This did not mean that they were > > included on the CWGC database, sometimes at the express wish of their > > families Michael Allbrook > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] > > On Behalf Of Patricia Treves > > Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 > > To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > > > I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are > > commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One > > man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. > > He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New > > Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find > > him recorded in CWSG. > > There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 > ************************************ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Patricia, Does your Joseph Lawley have a middle name? and also do you know his place of birth?. SWD CD shows four J Lawley. 2 x Joseph Lawley, 1 Joseph Isaac Lawley and 1 Joseph Thomas Lawley. Don't get hung up by falling into the trap thinking he came from Shropshire so must serve in a Shropshire regiment; by December 1914 and certainly very early 1915 men were sent to regiments and corps where they were needed as numerical reinforcements or if the man had a specialist trade or calling. Often throughout the war men were moved from regiment to regiment as required. Regards Peter -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 12 February 2013 08:01 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 Today's Topics: 1. Re: War Memorial (Michael Allbrook) 2. Re: War Memorial (David Railton) 3. Re: War Memorial (Patricia Treves) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:35:50 -0000 From: "Michael Allbrook" <michael@allbrook.com> Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial To: <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <008701ce086d$78e9aa80$6abcff80$@allbrook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died so their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them on the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Treves Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded in CWSG. There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:04:48 -0000 From: "David Railton" <railton.david@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial To: <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <005a01ce0871$8880c470$99824d50$@btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" War memorials in some towns list all who served not just those killed in action. I don't know if this applies to Cleobury Mortimer. David -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Michael Allbrook Sent: 11 February 2013 15:36 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died so their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them on the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Treves Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded in CWSG. There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:02:43 +0000 From: Patricia Treves <ptreves164@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CA+BbZrDpizGwH-_MbUEQao6FhiCWTjx6p0JU963Wiu8hm9trtA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you for your interest. I do have recorded one soldier who died from his injuries in a "Home" so I will check the civilian deaths. Paddy On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 4:04 PM, David Railton <railton.david@btinternet.com > wrote: > War memorials in some towns list all who served not just those killed > in action. I don't know if this applies to Cleobury Mortimer. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Michael Allbrook > Sent: 11 February 2013 15:36 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the > services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they > died so their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities > included them on the War Memorials This did not mean that they were > included on the CWGC database, sometimes at the express wish of their > families Michael Allbrook > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Patricia Treves > Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 > To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are > commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One > man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. > He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New > Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find > him recorded in CWSG. > There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 ************************************

Thank you for your interest. I do have recorded one soldier who died from his injuries in a "Home" so I will check the civilian deaths. Paddy On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 4:04 PM, David Railton <railton.david@btinternet.com > wrote: > War memorials in some towns list all who served not just those killed in > action. I don't know if this applies to Cleobury Mortimer. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Michael Allbrook > Sent: 11 February 2013 15:36 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the > services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died > so > their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them > on > the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC > database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Patricia Treves > Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 > To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial > > I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are > commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man > with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. > He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM > with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded > in CWSG. > There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

War memorials in some towns list all who served not just those killed in action. I don't know if this applies to Cleobury Mortimer. David -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Michael Allbrook Sent: 11 February 2013 15:36 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] War Memorial Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died so their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them on the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Treves Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded in CWSG. There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Some names on War Memorials are of men who were invalided out of the services and who died of their wounds. They were civilians when they died so their deaths are recorded as civilians but many communities included them on the War Memorials This did not mean that they were included on the CWGC database, sometimes at the express wish of their families Michael Allbrook -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Treves Sent: 10 February 2013 17:19 To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com Subject: [WW1-UK] War Memorial I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded in CWSG. There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Patricia Treves <ptreves164@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM Subject: War Memorial To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man with whom I am finding difficulty is *J (oseph) Lawley.* He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. I am unable to find him recorded in CWSG. There is a Private *Joseph Lawley* in the KSLI no. 200391 but I am unable to verify any link with CM. Also from the British Army WW1 Medal Rolls a *Joseph T Lawley* in the Durham Light infantry, Loyal North Lancashire. No. 4954, 26609. I would appreciate any help in this search. It is sad that in 100 years this man cannot be traced in CM. Regards Paddy

I am trying to find out about the men who died in WW1 and who are commemorated on the Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, War Memorial. One man with whom I am finding difficulty is J (oseph) Lawley. He was born in CM in 1890 and in the 1901 census was living at New Road, CM with his father, George and mother Emma. i am unable to find him recorded in CWSG. There is 1a Private Joseph Lawley in the KSLI no. 200391.

I have been in hospital and only just found this message. Not sure if it has been to the list or not, so sending it again. Please excuse me if I'm duplicating it. Marged ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Fitzpatrick To: eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:49 PM Subject: ERNEST fITZPATRICK B Liverpool 1877 and ALBERT FITZPATRICK bLiverpool 1895 Dear Listers, I am looking for the Wife's and decedents of the above, Both are Brothers of My Grandfather William Arthur Fitzpatrick.b 1882. I have been asked by a Possible member of my extended family, At this time I am looking specifically for a couple of possible decedents of the above, a son or Grandson called Gerard Fitzpatrick or a Son or Grandson called James Fitzpatrick born in 1923? Thank you Ron Fitzpatrick

We have a soldier who attests in Cardiff in June 1915 and joins the Welsh Fusiliers. Does anyone know whether proof of identity was required to enlist? Our man has named his Mother as next of kin and gives a USA address for her, stating he is British having been born in Canada - however no trace of his birth in Canada. Our problem is that the army record shows they wrote to his Mother at the address he gave but the letter was returned "unknown". However in the Directories, there is a person with the right Christian name as the Mother showing she is the Widow of the correctly named Father - BUT the family are immigrant Jews from Russia with their original surname which is continually used in US censuses and Directories. It appears that our man gave a false name and place of birth to make him appear British - is this possible Thanks Tony Knight

Hi Nivard, Thanks for clearing that up for me re the regimental numbers. Jim Cleary,NZ

I am trying to trace my wife's Uncle service records. Hi name was LAWRENCE COLLINS, born 1896 in Sunderland and I got the following from the WW1 Medal Rolls. LAWRENCE COLLINS,ROYAL HIGHLANDER,C of HUSSARS, LABOUR CORPS. S/ 10171,80946,620499. My question is are these three seperate numbers or one number? Included in his WW1 Medal record is a request for replacement of lost Medals filed by the RAF in January in 1923. Now I have established from Family Birth Certs. that he joined the RAF between 1919 and 1923. When I wrote to the RAF they said there was no trace of him being in the RAF, and without a Service Number they could not help me.On his daughters Birth Cert in 1923 he is described as a RAF AIRCRAFTSMAN. I will very much appreciate any help and advise you can give me. Jim Cleary, Napier, NZ

Hi Jim Yes they are three separate units with different numbers Men were moved from one unit to another for various reasons Royal Highlanders Private S/10171 Corps of Hussars Private 80946 Labour Corps 620499 His records should have been forwarded to the RAF if he served with them after the Army The RAF have records after 1924 before that they should be at the National Archives, so far they are not online in any way as far as I know The RAF may have him under a different spelling perhaps or could he have left the RAF before 1925 <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/raf-rfc-rnas.htm#19960> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 21/11/2012 02:08, The Clearys wrote: > I am trying to trace my wife's Uncle service records. Hi name was LAWRENCE COLLINS, born 1896 in Sunderland and I got the following from the WW1 Medal Rolls. > > LAWRENCE COLLINS,ROYAL HIGHLANDER,C of HUSSARS, LABOUR CORPS. > S/ 10171,80946,620499. > My question is are these three seperate numbers or one number? > > Included in his WW1 Medal record is a request for replacement of lost Medals filed by the RAF in January in 1923. Now I have established from Family Birth Certs. that he joined the RAF between 1919 and 1923. When I wrote to the RAF they said there was no trace of him being in the RAF, and without a Service Number they could not help me.On his daughters Birth Cert in 1923 he is described as a RAF AIRCRAFTSMAN. I will very much appreciate any help and advise you can give me. > Jim Cleary, Napier, NZ

Nivard In Australia, last night the History Channel screened the documentary on the Livens Large Gallery Flame Projector, made after the remains of one were excavated at Mametz. If anybody was unfamiliar with what a War Diary contains, there were some good shots of the R.E. War Diary covering the original installations. Just thought people should be aware of this. William Thorne On 14/11/2012 6:01 PM, ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Hampshire Regiment, Cycling Battalion (LINDA MARTIN) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:41:52 -0800 (PST) > From: LINDA MARTIN <lmmartin@rogers.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Hampshire Regiment, Cycling Battalion > To: "ww1-uk@rootsweb.com" <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <1352810512.72583.YahooMailNeo@web121906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Many thanks for the informative reply, as always!? I will try the War Diaries. > ? > Linda > > > ________________________________ > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:11:56 AM > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Hampshire Regiment, Cycling Battalion > > Hi again > > Not a daft question I can assure you > > Transfer between units was commonplace and for various reasons > > Sometimes one unit became depleted due to casualties or illness so the > remainder were transferred to another unit > > Sometimes because they needed an NCO in one unit and there was a surfeit > in another > > I would also recommend checking the National Archives for War Diaries, > they are not available for all units but very useful when they are > > They rarely mention a man by name but do plot where the regiment went to > and when > > Another ploy is to look for the service records of men in the same > regiment with a service number close to your mans, if they survive it > would give an idea of where they got to as they are likely to have been > to the same places and in the same actions > > Do note that the same number could be issued to another man in a > different regiment > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 12/11/2012 12:43, LINDA MARTIN wrote: >> Thank you so much Nivard.? That certainly ties in with all that we >> were told.? We also inherited the bullet with which he was shot! >> >> So would he have been transferred to the Somerset's because they >> needed more men?? Sorry, if that sounds like a stupid question! >> >> I did try to find his records, but with no luck.? As you said, >> probably non existent. >> >> Linda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 6, Issue 47 > ************************************* >

Hi William Yes it was a beast of a machine wasn't it You can only wonder at the terror in the minds of those on the receiving end of it On War Diaries, there is a good section on it here <http://www.greatwar.co.uk/research/military-records/british-army-war-diary.htm> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 15/11/2012 02:25, William Thorne wrote: > Nivard > > In Australia, last night the History Channel screened the documentary on > the > > > Livens Large Gallery Flame Projector, > > > made after the remains of one were excavated at Mametz. If anybody > was unfamiliar with what a War Diary contains, there were some good > shots of the R.E. War Diary covering the original installations. > > Just thought people should be aware of this. > > > William Thorne

Many thanks for the informative reply, as always!  I will try the War Diaries.   Linda ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:11:56 AM Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Hampshire Regiment, Cycling Battalion Hi again Not a daft question I can assure you Transfer between units was commonplace and for various reasons Sometimes one unit became depleted due to casualties or illness so the remainder were transferred to another unit Sometimes because they needed an NCO in one unit and there was a surfeit in another I would also recommend checking the National Archives for War Diaries, they are not available for all units but very useful when they are They rarely mention a man by name but do plot where the regiment went to and when Another ploy is to look for the service records of men in the same regiment with a service number close to your mans, if they survive it would give an idea of where they got to as they are likely to have been to the same places and in the same actions Do note that the same number could be issued to another man in a different regiment Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/11/2012 12:43, LINDA MARTIN wrote: > Thank you so much Nivard.  That certainly ties in with all that we > were told.  We also inherited the bullet with which he was shot! > > So would he have been transferred to the Somerset's because they > needed more men?  Sorry, if that sounds like a stupid question! > > I did try to find his records, but with no luck.  As you said, > probably non existent. > > Linda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again Not a daft question I can assure you Transfer between units was commonplace and for various reasons Sometimes one unit became depleted due to casualties or illness so the remainder were transferred to another unit Sometimes because they needed an NCO in one unit and there was a surfeit in another I would also recommend checking the National Archives for War Diaries, they are not available for all units but very useful when they are They rarely mention a man by name but do plot where the regiment went to and when Another ploy is to look for the service records of men in the same regiment with a service number close to your mans, if they survive it would give an idea of where they got to as they are likely to have been to the same places and in the same actions Do note that the same number could be issued to another man in a different regiment Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/11/2012 12:43, LINDA MARTIN wrote: > Thank you so much Nivard. That certainly ties in with all that we > were told. We also inherited the bullet with which he was shot! > > So would he have been transferred to the Somerset's because they > needed more men? Sorry, if that sounds like a stupid question! > > I did try to find his records, but with no luck. As you said, > probably non existent. > > Linda