Hi April The club was still going in at least 1925 From the papers Chelmsford Chronicle March 30, 1906 Volunteer Presentation At a smoking concert held at the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club, the Green, Mr Chris S CATT, who has rendered good service to the Club for the last three years as honorary entertainment secretary, was presented with a gold watch -------------- Chelmsford Chronicle Feb 16 1912 Stratford The childrens part given by the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club took place at the Town Hall. Nearly 700 were present. Mrs Chris S CATT was the hon sec. The helpers members and friends numbering over 300, afterwards held a dance. The Artillery Band under Mr W HEGERTY supplied the music ----------- Essex Newsman June 26, 1915 In the presence of a large number of members of the Essex Artillery Volunteers Club, a roll of honour containing the names of members who are serving with the forces was hung on the club walls on Saturday evening. The ceremony of "hanging" the roll was performed by Mr R W BURTON, the chairman of the club. ----------- Chelmsford Chronicle February 20, 1925 The Essex Artillery Volunteers Club at Stratford gave its 31st annual party to 700 children at Stratford Town Hall ----------- Many of these clubs were formed during the mid 1800's on and were social clubs for those who were part of or something to do with the Volunteers (of which there were many groups around the Country) Later many of them became Territorial units I would be very surprised if they were in any way an exclusive club for the Artillery but rather anyone with an interest or connection to the Volunteers or anyone else who wanted to join The clubs were formed to support the volunteers and were not necessarily exclusive Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/08/2013 08:54, Ashton April wrote: > Does anyone have any knowledge of the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club? It was located at 96 Romford Road, West Ham in 1911- was it still there in 1916 and if so is it likely that its membership was restricted to Essex Artillery? Thank you. > April Wood Ashton

Does anyone have any knowledge of the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club? It was located at 96 Romford Road, West Ham in 1911- was it still there in 1916 and if so is it likely that its membership was restricted to Essex Artillery? Thank you. April Wood Ashton

Hi again At the start of the war there were mentions in local papers of casualties but I do not think there was ever an exhaustive list, just those reported As the war moved on it simply became unmanageable to publish all deaths in action, woundings etc I do not believe there was ever an edict stating they could not be reported, it was just impossible to keep up with so fell away, however some deaths were reported in the papers right up to the end of the war, much depends on the area There is no doubt the politicians had a hand in what was reported on a higher level I am not sure what records you are eluding to when you ask if they survive, can you clarify what you mean please Put another way, what is it you are looking for? Presumably you believe there was a casualty that went unreported? Perhaps if you state the reasons someone may be able to find the man in question The sheer volume of information regarding men who died in the first war was so immense that it comes as no surprise that there were errors in reporting and recording names and details Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/08/2013 09:34, Ashton April wrote: > Am I correct in believing that lists of WW1 casualties were posted > on Community / Town Notice Boards? Also, as I understand it as the > WW1 casualty levels reached unacceptable levels, lists were no > longer entered up in newspapers. Am I correct in this belief ? If I > am correct, have any of these records survived and where are they > available? Thank you, April Wood Ashton.

Am I correct in believing that lists of WW1 casualties were posted on Community / Town Notice Boards? Also, as I understand it as the WW1 casualty levels reached unacceptable levels, lists were no longer entered up in newspapers. Am I correct in this belief ? If I am correct, have any of these records survived and where are they available? Thank you, April Wood Ashton.

Err... Its "Nivard" :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/08/2013 09:25, Ashton April wrote: > Dear Nirvard

Dear Nirvard Thank you again for your informative response . Kind regards, April On 10 Aug 2013, at 09:19, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi April > > War deaths are indexed in a separate GRO index for same > > The indexes can be searched on findmypast for example, Ancestry or > freebmd don't have them > > Armed with the reference you can order online as you can for any death > certificate > > I can't say if a death cert was "routinely" issued, as it was registered > by the Force concerned I somehow doubt it, confirmation of death was > issued in other ways as far as I know > > The certificates for war deaths are not usually that informative though > > Normally it might say died of wounds, or died of disease etc > > Place of death might be France & Flanders or similar general area > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > On 10/08/2013 08:52, Ashton April wrote: >> Can someone tell me that when young men died in combat abroad during >> WW1, were official death certificates routinely / required to be >> issued? If so what information might be found on them? Thank you. >> April Wood Ashton > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi April War deaths are indexed in a separate GRO index for same The indexes can be searched on findmypast for example, Ancestry or freebmd don't have them Armed with the reference you can order online as you can for any death certificate I can't say if a death cert was "routinely" issued, as it was registered by the Force concerned I somehow doubt it, confirmation of death was issued in other ways as far as I know The certificates for war deaths are not usually that informative though Normally it might say died of wounds, or died of disease etc Place of death might be France & Flanders or similar general area Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 10/08/2013 08:52, Ashton April wrote: > Can someone tell me that when young men died in combat abroad during > WW1, were official death certificates routinely / required to be > issued? If so what information might be found on them? Thank you. > April Wood Ashton

Can someone tell me that when young men died in combat abroad during WW1, were official death certificates routinely / required to be issued? If so what information might be found on them? Thank you. April Wood Ashton

I came across this sequence of what appear to be initials on a roll of honour. Has anyone come across this abbreviation where it has not been an intended reference to Highland Light Infantry? -- Alan Middlemass Bearpark, Durham, UK I have not made any attachments to this mail

Dear Listers, For many years I have been trying to find out exactly where my Grandfather served in World War 1. For a long time the only clue I had was that he was in the R.G.A. and I had a photograph of 18 men which stated ‘ All that was left of 198 Heavy Battery R.G.A. ‘ which was hand written on a card in front of the men. I have recently discovered that he enlisted on 24 November 1915 and was mobilized on 6 June 1916 ( ironically the day his Wife's Brother was killed ). 26 June 1916 - Posted Carrick Fergus ( Gunner ). 28 June 1915 - Posted 15 Co., ( Gunner ). 6 July 1916 - 198 Hy., 29 November 1916 - 12 Hy., 25 January 1917 - Appointed ( cannot read the rest ). 19 March 1917 - 121 Hy., 13 September 1919 - Demob ( his Son and my Fathers Birthday ). In another entry ‘ transferred to Class ‘ Z ‘ Army Reserve on Demob ‘ 15 October 1919. I do know that in 1919 he was stationed at Enderlich, Bonn, Germany. The main things I am trying to find out are - Where was he during the War and what Battles if any was he involved in ? Why was he still in Germany until almost the end of 1919 ? Any assistance in solving this mystery would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Judy Brown. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date: 05/28/13

List Owners have been requested to forward this information to lists. Genealogy Conference on British Migration <http://www.exodus2103.co.uk>http://www.exodus2013.co.uk With 20 talks from 17 different internationally known genealogists and historians, the Halsted Trust is delighted to announce its Second International Family History conference featuring the theme of British Migration; from, to and within the British Isles. Exodus: Movement of the People will be held at a comfortable and modern hotel from 6th to 8th September 2013. The Hinkley Island Hotel, Hinkley, Leicestershire is a great venue with state of the art conference facilities. Families that move are always a challenge for family historians. They may travel a few miles into another parish or another county or another country. They may have come from just down the road or from the other side of the world. Finding where an ancestor comes from, or goes to, needs skill and tenacity as well as luck. Are there records showing movement into the parish? As the British Empire expanded, and later contracted, British migrants are to be found all over the world and not just on areas coloured red in the Edwardian atlas. They were entrepreneurs, and engineers, miners and musicians as well as colonial civil servants and soldiers. Not every migrant wanted the adventure and many came back as soon as they could. The Halsted Trust invited our conference speakers to consider how and why Britons migrated from, to or within the British Isles. We wanted to know how genealogists could be equipped to tackle the challenges of tracing the origins of migrant ancestors and understand the reasons for their migration. Poverty, religion, ambition, even love are strong drivers of change and wanderlust. Some such as criminals and slaves were forced to migrate. Are there new genealogical sources and resources becoming available and what evidence does archaeology or DNA provide for migration? We wanted to look at the impact of Diasporas on Britain and the impact of the British Diaspora on the world. As we look at migrants to the UK's former colonies we also look at the growing digital resource of migration sources and passenger lists as well as the vast untapped resources within UK archives showing the clues for the ancestor who just turns up in a parish. Migrants moulded the British Isles and its history. In the year leading up to this conference the Trust has published articles on the conference website about the places our ancestors went to and came from, along with stories about migrants who prospered and influenced history. For programme and further details please visit <http://www.exodus2103.co.uk>http://www.exodus2013.co.uk or for a brochure write to The Halsted Trust, Box H, Society of Genealogists, 14 Charterhouse Buildings, Goswell Rd., London EC1M 7BA Geoffrey T. Stone, FSG, SoG Mailing List Administrator. lists@sog.org.uk http://www.sog.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LISTOWNERS-ENGWLS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter, Thank you for your reply. I shall start digging along these lines. All the best, James On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Peter Fellowes <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com > wrote: > Hi James, > > It is an interesting point that he has the 1914-15 Star inscribed ASC; this > caught me off balance for a moment as I tried to reconcile how he would > have > the 1914-15 Star and also be seen in a photo as part of [what is clearly] > either the 3rd or the 4th Training Reserve Battalion, neither formed until > 1st October 1916, as clearly the men seated on the ground front rank of the > group photo you included in your first e mail have TR on their shoulders, > proving the photo must be 1st October 1916 or after. > > Then I had an idea. > > I use the book' Call to Arms The British Army 1914-18' by Charles > Messenger > as a reference. > > Interestingly Messenger in Chapter 5 'Conscription' on page 154 mentions > the > following: > > "Typical of the Training Reserve Battalions was the 3rd TR Battalion > formerly the 10th North Staffordshires, it now belonged to the 1st Training > Reserve Brigade and was affiliated to the Durham Light Infantry. It was > organized into six companies, of which three were dedicated to recruit > training and two contained BEF veterans recovering from wounds or sickness. > The sixth company was made up of medically unfit but otherwise employable > men. Infantry training remained at fourteen weeks, after which a soldier > was > ready for drafting to an active battalion." > > However on pages 156/157 [same chapter] Messenger goes on and talks about > the problems with the influx of recruits due to conscription starting > [Military Service Act 1916] and that a large number of those conscripted > either did not meet the basic medical category or if they did it was a > lower > standard that expected for a soldier to serve in an active front line > service battalion. he says: > > "A further implication of the influx of lower medical category recruits was > a combing out of Medical Category A men from the supporting services. In > November 1916 a scheme was instituted whereby Category A ASC men who were > not in a skilled trade were replaced by Category B and C men and > transferred > to the Infantry, Artillery or Machine Gun Corps. Similar programmes were > instituted in the Army Ordnance Corps and Remount Depots. Indeed it was > claimed that the non commissioned personnel of the Army Veterinary Corps > experienced a compete turnover three times during war" > > Now as you are aware the qualifying period for the 1914-15 Star was 5th > August 1914 - 31st December 1915, so if you G Grandfather received that > medal [inscribed ASC] he must have served with the ASC in France for at > least 30 consecutive days sometime between those dates. > > Referring back to the two extracts from Call to Arms The British Army > 1914-18 here are two options for you to consider. > > 1 Your G Grandfather enlisted into the ASC. he was sent to France prior to > 31st December 1915 and thus qualified for the 1914-15 Star, it is inscribed > ASC. At some point he is wounded or suffers some other form of sickness and > is sent back to UK to recover. After his recovery he is then sent to > [either] 3rd or 4th TR Battalion [after 1st October 1916] for infantry > training, during this time the photo is taken, after the end of training he > is sent in a draft to the 9th York and Lancs and then serves with them in > France. > > 2 Your G Grandfather enlisted into the ASC. he was sent to France prior to > 31st December 1915 and thus qualified for the 1914-15 Star, it is inscribed > ASC. If as you suggest that you think he may have served Horse Transport it > may not have been deemed a 'Skilled Trade' and at a point after November > 1916 as a Medical Category A Man he may have been 'combed out' and sent > back > to either 3rd or 4th TR Battalion to train as an infantry soldier his place > having taken in the ASC by a Medical Category B or C man. Whilst at the TR > Battalion the photo was taken and after training he was sent on a draft to > 9th York and Lancs and then served with them. > > Now I do not claim either is the definitive answer only that allowing for > what Messenger states in his book either option may apply, or at least it > gives the possibility of a reasonable assumption that one of those options > may apply; or of course as with so much of WW1 research that in any > individual case none of the above may apply, but it is at least, a starting > point to think about. > The fun now is further research to prove or otherwise the facts. > > Hope this helps > > Regards > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: 10 April 2013 08:01 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now complete > (Nivard Ovington) > 2. Re: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 (James Bunker) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:36:38 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > Subject: [WW1-UK] Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now > complete > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <5163D316.4020600@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > From the National Archives > > Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now complete > > http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/830.htm > > -- > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 11:06:00 +0100 > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > < > CALhAKozeG1D_r9AkooGhwEo8SYFAJfC+JL1HGv1aycM7SQ+BMw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Peter, > > Thank you for your in depth reply. Lots to take in! > > My grandfather was awarded a 1914-15 star with the inscription of ASC. > Looking at his regimental number, it seems likely that he was a member of > the Horse Transport. > > Given the dates of the Training Reserve, is it possible he returned to a > training reserve after being wounded or seeing action elsewhere? > > James > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Peter Fellowes > <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com>wrote: > > > Hi James. > > > > The Prince of Wales's [North Staffordshire Regiment] formed two Reserve > > Battalions, the 10th and 11th. > > > > The 10th [Reserve] Battalion formed during October 1914 originally as a > > service battalion of K3 but reverted to a reserve battalion and > transferred > > to 99 Brigade 33rd Division in K4. On the 10th April 1915 it became a 2nd > > Reserve Battalion. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion also formed in October > 1914 > > as a service battalion in K4 and like the 10th on the 10th April 1915 it > > became a 2nd Reserve Battalion. > > > > In 1916 it was soon found that the Regimental Reserve Battalions were > > unable > > to cope with the number increase of recruits following the introduction > of > > conscription and it was decided to form a new organization to receive and > > train these recruits and then despatch them as drafts overseas to > Regiments > > or Corps which could not be supplied from the' normal' channels of > training > > reserves. > > > > The new organization was called Training Reserve and was formed on the > 1st > > September 1916. > > > > The training reserve was formed from 2nd Reserve and Local Reserve > > Battalions which, after the formation date, discarded their designations > > and > > became numbered battalions of the training reserve from 1 to 112. The 24 > > Reserve Brigades became Training Reserve Brigades and where the number of > > new battalions in a brigade was less than the existing ones the surplus > > units were absorbed into the new battalions. > > > > On the 1st October 1916 the 10th [Reserve] Battalion became the 3rd > > Training > > Reserve Battalion within 1st Reserve Brigade. The 11th [Reserve] > Battalion > > became the 4th Training Reserve Battalion also on the 1st October 1916 > > within 1st Training Reserve Brigade; both based at Rugeley Cannock Chase. > > > > You mention that your G Grandfather went on the serve in both the [R]ASC > > and > > 9th York and Lancs. I do not know for certain and you may have more > > information on this but it may well be reasonable to assume that he > > underwent basic recruit training either with the 10th [Reserve] or 11th > > [Reserve] Battalions North Staffs [3rd or 4th Training Reserve > Battalions] > > depending on his enlistment date; pre or post conscription, but then was > > posted as a draft overseas into the [R]ASC and or 9th York and Lancs. > > > > Because he was trained in a Training Reserve Battalion with the North > > Staffs > > does not mean he served with them, he would have been sent in a draft to > a > > Corps or Regiment that required drafts. > > > > PS. I title the [R]ASC rather than RASC because the ASC did not receive > the > > prefix Royal until 1918. > > > > Hope this might help. > > > > Regards > > Peter > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > > Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com > > Sent: 07 April 2013 08:01 > > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > > Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Cap badge identification (James Bunker) > > 2. Re: Cap badge identification (Nivard Ovington) > > 3. Re: Cap badge identification (James Bunker) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 19:46:54 +0100 > > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > > Subject: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > > To: "ww1-uk@rootsweb.com" <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > > Message-ID: <A365669A-E16C-481D-A7D1-CA63F189373A@jamesbunker.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Hello all, > > > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > I've > > search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > > > Cheers > > > > James > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 20:38:11 +0100 > > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <516079A3.6030909@gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > Hi James > > > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > > I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > > > > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > James > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 21:49:07 +0100 > > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <3D473542-1191-4A75-8364-12DA37FFA2AA@jamesbunker.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Excellent - great spot. > > > > If interested, here's the original photo that man came from: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbunker/8624227215/in/photostream > > > > This is where it gets interesting though, as my great grandfather (top > row, > > third from left) was in both the RASC then the 9th Y+L. > > > > However, in this photo (which is the only one that exists of him during > the > > war) he's in a training reserve, clearly being led by North Staffs. > > > > Any idea what the story may be there? > > > > > > On 6 Apr 2013, at 20:38, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi James > > > > > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > > >> Hello all, > > >> > > >> I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > > I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > >> > > >> http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> James > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > > ************************************* > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 > ************************************* > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi James, It is an interesting point that he has the 1914-15 Star inscribed ASC; this caught me off balance for a moment as I tried to reconcile how he would have the 1914-15 Star and also be seen in a photo as part of [what is clearly] either the 3rd or the 4th Training Reserve Battalion, neither formed until 1st October 1916, as clearly the men seated on the ground front rank of the group photo you included in your first e mail have TR on their shoulders, proving the photo must be 1st October 1916 or after. Then I had an idea. I use the book' Call to Arms The British Army 1914-18' by Charles Messenger as a reference. Interestingly Messenger in Chapter 5 'Conscription' on page 154 mentions the following: "Typical of the Training Reserve Battalions was the 3rd TR Battalion formerly the 10th North Staffordshires, it now belonged to the 1st Training Reserve Brigade and was affiliated to the Durham Light Infantry. It was organized into six companies, of which three were dedicated to recruit training and two contained BEF veterans recovering from wounds or sickness. The sixth company was made up of medically unfit but otherwise employable men. Infantry training remained at fourteen weeks, after which a soldier was ready for drafting to an active battalion." However on pages 156/157 [same chapter] Messenger goes on and talks about the problems with the influx of recruits due to conscription starting [Military Service Act 1916] and that a large number of those conscripted either did not meet the basic medical category or if they did it was a lower standard that expected for a soldier to serve in an active front line service battalion. he says: "A further implication of the influx of lower medical category recruits was a combing out of Medical Category A men from the supporting services. In November 1916 a scheme was instituted whereby Category A ASC men who were not in a skilled trade were replaced by Category B and C men and transferred to the Infantry, Artillery or Machine Gun Corps. Similar programmes were instituted in the Army Ordnance Corps and Remount Depots. Indeed it was claimed that the non commissioned personnel of the Army Veterinary Corps experienced a compete turnover three times during war" Now as you are aware the qualifying period for the 1914-15 Star was 5th August 1914 - 31st December 1915, so if you G Grandfather received that medal [inscribed ASC] he must have served with the ASC in France for at least 30 consecutive days sometime between those dates. Referring back to the two extracts from Call to Arms The British Army 1914-18 here are two options for you to consider. 1 Your G Grandfather enlisted into the ASC. he was sent to France prior to 31st December 1915 and thus qualified for the 1914-15 Star, it is inscribed ASC. At some point he is wounded or suffers some other form of sickness and is sent back to UK to recover. After his recovery he is then sent to [either] 3rd or 4th TR Battalion [after 1st October 1916] for infantry training, during this time the photo is taken, after the end of training he is sent in a draft to the 9th York and Lancs and then serves with them in France. 2 Your G Grandfather enlisted into the ASC. he was sent to France prior to 31st December 1915 and thus qualified for the 1914-15 Star, it is inscribed ASC. If as you suggest that you think he may have served Horse Transport it may not have been deemed a 'Skilled Trade' and at a point after November 1916 as a Medical Category A Man he may have been 'combed out' and sent back to either 3rd or 4th TR Battalion to train as an infantry soldier his place having taken in the ASC by a Medical Category B or C man. Whilst at the TR Battalion the photo was taken and after training he was sent on a draft to 9th York and Lancs and then served with them. Now I do not claim either is the definitive answer only that allowing for what Messenger states in his book either option may apply, or at least it gives the possibility of a reasonable assumption that one of those options may apply; or of course as with so much of WW1 research that in any individual case none of the above may apply, but it is at least, a starting point to think about. The fun now is further research to prove or otherwise the facts. Hope this helps Regards Peter -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 10 April 2013 08:01 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 Today's Topics: 1. Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now complete (Nivard Ovington) 2. Re: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 (James Bunker) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:36:38 +0100 From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> Subject: [WW1-UK] Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now complete To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <5163D316.4020600@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed From the National Archives Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now complete http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/830.htm -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 11:06:00 +0100 From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CALhAKozeG1D_r9AkooGhwEo8SYFAJfC+JL1HGv1aycM7SQ+BMw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Peter, Thank you for your in depth reply. Lots to take in! My grandfather was awarded a 1914-15 star with the inscription of ASC. Looking at his regimental number, it seems likely that he was a member of the Horse Transport. Given the dates of the Training Reserve, is it possible he returned to a training reserve after being wounded or seeing action elsewhere? James On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Peter Fellowes <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com>wrote: > Hi James. > > The Prince of Wales's [North Staffordshire Regiment] formed two Reserve > Battalions, the 10th and 11th. > > The 10th [Reserve] Battalion formed during October 1914 originally as a > service battalion of K3 but reverted to a reserve battalion and transferred > to 99 Brigade 33rd Division in K4. On the 10th April 1915 it became a 2nd > Reserve Battalion. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion also formed in October 1914 > as a service battalion in K4 and like the 10th on the 10th April 1915 it > became a 2nd Reserve Battalion. > > In 1916 it was soon found that the Regimental Reserve Battalions were > unable > to cope with the number increase of recruits following the introduction of > conscription and it was decided to form a new organization to receive and > train these recruits and then despatch them as drafts overseas to Regiments > or Corps which could not be supplied from the' normal' channels of training > reserves. > > The new organization was called Training Reserve and was formed on the 1st > September 1916. > > The training reserve was formed from 2nd Reserve and Local Reserve > Battalions which, after the formation date, discarded their designations > and > became numbered battalions of the training reserve from 1 to 112. The 24 > Reserve Brigades became Training Reserve Brigades and where the number of > new battalions in a brigade was less than the existing ones the surplus > units were absorbed into the new battalions. > > On the 1st October 1916 the 10th [Reserve] Battalion became the 3rd > Training > Reserve Battalion within 1st Reserve Brigade. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion > became the 4th Training Reserve Battalion also on the 1st October 1916 > within 1st Training Reserve Brigade; both based at Rugeley Cannock Chase. > > You mention that your G Grandfather went on the serve in both the [R]ASC > and > 9th York and Lancs. I do not know for certain and you may have more > information on this but it may well be reasonable to assume that he > underwent basic recruit training either with the 10th [Reserve] or 11th > [Reserve] Battalions North Staffs [3rd or 4th Training Reserve Battalions] > depending on his enlistment date; pre or post conscription, but then was > posted as a draft overseas into the [R]ASC and or 9th York and Lancs. > > Because he was trained in a Training Reserve Battalion with the North > Staffs > does not mean he served with them, he would have been sent in a draft to a > Corps or Regiment that required drafts. > > PS. I title the [R]ASC rather than RASC because the ASC did not receive the > prefix Royal until 1918. > > Hope this might help. > > Regards > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: 07 April 2013 08:01 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Cap badge identification (James Bunker) > 2. Re: Cap badge identification (Nivard Ovington) > 3. Re: Cap badge identification (James Bunker) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 19:46:54 +0100 > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > Subject: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > To: "ww1-uk@rootsweb.com" <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <A365669A-E16C-481D-A7D1-CA63F189373A@jamesbunker.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello all, > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've > search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > Cheers > > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 20:38:11 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <516079A3.6030909@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi James > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > > > Cheers > > > > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 21:49:07 +0100 > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <3D473542-1191-4A75-8364-12DA37FFA2AA@jamesbunker.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Excellent - great spot. > > If interested, here's the original photo that man came from: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbunker/8624227215/in/photostream > > This is where it gets interesting though, as my great grandfather (top row, > third from left) was in both the RASC then the 9th Y+L. > > However, in this photo (which is the only one that exists of him during the > war) he's in a training reserve, clearly being led by North Staffs. > > Any idea what the story may be there? > > > On 6 Apr 2013, at 20:38, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi James > > > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > >> > >> http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> James > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > ************************************* > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 *************************************

Peter, Thank you for your in depth reply. Lots to take in! My grandfather was awarded a 1914-15 star with the inscription of ASC. Looking at his regimental number, it seems likely that he was a member of the Horse Transport. Given the dates of the Training Reserve, is it possible he returned to a training reserve after being wounded or seeing action elsewhere? James On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Peter Fellowes <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com>wrote: > Hi James. > > The Prince of Wales's [North Staffordshire Regiment] formed two Reserve > Battalions, the 10th and 11th. > > The 10th [Reserve] Battalion formed during October 1914 originally as a > service battalion of K3 but reverted to a reserve battalion and transferred > to 99 Brigade 33rd Division in K4. On the 10th April 1915 it became a 2nd > Reserve Battalion. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion also formed in October 1914 > as a service battalion in K4 and like the 10th on the 10th April 1915 it > became a 2nd Reserve Battalion. > > In 1916 it was soon found that the Regimental Reserve Battalions were > unable > to cope with the number increase of recruits following the introduction of > conscription and it was decided to form a new organization to receive and > train these recruits and then despatch them as drafts overseas to Regiments > or Corps which could not be supplied from the' normal' channels of training > reserves. > > The new organization was called Training Reserve and was formed on the 1st > September 1916. > > The training reserve was formed from 2nd Reserve and Local Reserve > Battalions which, after the formation date, discarded their designations > and > became numbered battalions of the training reserve from 1 to 112. The 24 > Reserve Brigades became Training Reserve Brigades and where the number of > new battalions in a brigade was less than the existing ones the surplus > units were absorbed into the new battalions. > > On the 1st October 1916 the 10th [Reserve] Battalion became the 3rd > Training > Reserve Battalion within 1st Reserve Brigade. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion > became the 4th Training Reserve Battalion also on the 1st October 1916 > within 1st Training Reserve Brigade; both based at Rugeley Cannock Chase. > > You mention that your G Grandfather went on the serve in both the [R]ASC > and > 9th York and Lancs. I do not know for certain and you may have more > information on this but it may well be reasonable to assume that he > underwent basic recruit training either with the 10th [Reserve] or 11th > [Reserve] Battalions North Staffs [3rd or 4th Training Reserve Battalions] > depending on his enlistment date; pre or post conscription, but then was > posted as a draft overseas into the [R]ASC and or 9th York and Lancs. > > Because he was trained in a Training Reserve Battalion with the North > Staffs > does not mean he served with them, he would have been sent in a draft to a > Corps or Regiment that required drafts. > > PS. I title the [R]ASC rather than RASC because the ASC did not receive the > prefix Royal until 1918. > > Hope this might help. > > Regards > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: 07 April 2013 08:01 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Cap badge identification (James Bunker) > 2. Re: Cap badge identification (Nivard Ovington) > 3. Re: Cap badge identification (James Bunker) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 19:46:54 +0100 > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > Subject: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > To: "ww1-uk@rootsweb.com" <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <A365669A-E16C-481D-A7D1-CA63F189373A@jamesbunker.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello all, > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've > search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > Cheers > > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 20:38:11 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <516079A3.6030909@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi James > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > > > Cheers > > > > James > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 21:49:07 +0100 > From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <3D473542-1191-4A75-8364-12DA37FFA2AA@jamesbunker.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Excellent - great spot. > > If interested, here's the original photo that man came from: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbunker/8624227215/in/photostream > > This is where it gets interesting though, as my great grandfather (top row, > third from left) was in both the RASC then the 9th Y+L. > > However, in this photo (which is the only one that exists of him during the > war) he's in a training reserve, clearly being led by North Staffs. > > Any idea what the story may be there? > > > On 6 Apr 2013, at 20:38, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi James > > > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. > I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > >> > >> http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> James > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 > ************************************* > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From the National Archives Digitisation of First World War unit diaries now complete http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/830.htm -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi James. The Prince of Wales's [North Staffordshire Regiment] formed two Reserve Battalions, the 10th and 11th. The 10th [Reserve] Battalion formed during October 1914 originally as a service battalion of K3 but reverted to a reserve battalion and transferred to 99 Brigade 33rd Division in K4. On the 10th April 1915 it became a 2nd Reserve Battalion. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion also formed in October 1914 as a service battalion in K4 and like the 10th on the 10th April 1915 it became a 2nd Reserve Battalion. In 1916 it was soon found that the Regimental Reserve Battalions were unable to cope with the number increase of recruits following the introduction of conscription and it was decided to form a new organization to receive and train these recruits and then despatch them as drafts overseas to Regiments or Corps which could not be supplied from the' normal' channels of training reserves. The new organization was called Training Reserve and was formed on the 1st September 1916. The training reserve was formed from 2nd Reserve and Local Reserve Battalions which, after the formation date, discarded their designations and became numbered battalions of the training reserve from 1 to 112. The 24 Reserve Brigades became Training Reserve Brigades and where the number of new battalions in a brigade was less than the existing ones the surplus units were absorbed into the new battalions. On the 1st October 1916 the 10th [Reserve] Battalion became the 3rd Training Reserve Battalion within 1st Reserve Brigade. The 11th [Reserve] Battalion became the 4th Training Reserve Battalion also on the 1st October 1916 within 1st Training Reserve Brigade; both based at Rugeley Cannock Chase. You mention that your G Grandfather went on the serve in both the [R]ASC and 9th York and Lancs. I do not know for certain and you may have more information on this but it may well be reasonable to assume that he underwent basic recruit training either with the 10th [Reserve] or 11th [Reserve] Battalions North Staffs [3rd or 4th Training Reserve Battalions] depending on his enlistment date; pre or post conscription, but then was posted as a draft overseas into the [R]ASC and or 9th York and Lancs. Because he was trained in a Training Reserve Battalion with the North Staffs does not mean he served with them, he would have been sent in a draft to a Corps or Regiment that required drafts. PS. I title the [R]ASC rather than RASC because the ASC did not receive the prefix Royal until 1918. Hope this might help. Regards Peter -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 07 April 2013 08:01 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 Today's Topics: 1. Cap badge identification (James Bunker) 2. Re: Cap badge identification (Nivard Ovington) 3. Re: Cap badge identification (James Bunker) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 19:46:54 +0100 From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> Subject: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification To: "ww1-uk@rootsweb.com" <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <A365669A-E16C-481D-A7D1-CA63F189373A@jamesbunker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all, I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ Cheers James ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 20:38:11 +0100 From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <516079A3.6030909@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi James Try the North Staffs Regiment Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > Hello all, > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > Cheers > > James ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 21:49:07 +0100 From: James Bunker <james@jamesbunker.com> Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Cap badge identification To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <3D473542-1191-4A75-8364-12DA37FFA2AA@jamesbunker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Excellent - great spot. If interested, here's the original photo that man came from: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbunker/8624227215/in/photostream This is where it gets interesting though, as my great grandfather (top row, third from left) was in both the RASC then the 9th Y+L. However, in this photo (which is the only one that exists of him during the war) he's in a training reserve, clearly being led by North Staffs. Any idea what the story may be there? On 6 Apr 2013, at 20:38, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi James > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. >> >> http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ >> >> Cheers >> >> James > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 19 *************************************

Excellent - great spot. If interested, here's the original photo that man came from: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbunker/8624227215/in/photostream This is where it gets interesting though, as my great grandfather (top row, third from left) was in both the RASC then the 9th Y+L. However, in this photo (which is the only one that exists of him during the war) he's in a training reserve, clearly being led by North Staffs. Any idea what the story may be there? On 6 Apr 2013, at 20:38, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi James > > Try the North Staffs Regiment > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. >> >> http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ >> >> Cheers >> >> James > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi James Try the North Staffs Regiment Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 06/04/2013 19:46, James Bunker wrote: > Hello all, > > I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. > > http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ > > Cheers > > James

Hello all, I wonder if anyone on this list recognises this gentleman's cap-badge. I've search through all the literature I have but to no avail. http://postimg.org/image/pt5fcgtx7/ Cheers James

Peter Could you please give us a little more information on the ASCsoldiers number prefixes ? You mention below the "S" of Marjorie's relation, but what were the other prefixes ? I have a text book "The Royal Army Service Corps" by Graeme Crew but have not been able to find a mention there. You obviously have some very rare knowledge. How did you know he was in Kitchener's Army, if tht is what you meant by New Army ? Where can one find such information ? Thanks William Thorne (far away in Brisbane Australia) On 25/03/2013 5:01 PM, ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 (Peter Fellowes) > 2. Re: Medal card for Alexander Grant (Nivard Ovington) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:55:04 -0000 > From: "Peter Fellowes" <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 > To: <ww1-uk@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000001ce2875$a9e847e0$fdb8d7a0$@fellowes@ntlworld.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good morning all, > > For Majorie. > > I might advise to use all numbers when doing a search even though you now > know that he was issued different numbers at different time of his service > and when changing Regiments or Corps, in general terms as wide a search > parameter as possible may yield the best results I find. > > As to the Prefix S4 during his ASC service. Yes that is part of his number > and should be used at first when doing open searches, if you find nothing > then by all means search without the S4 prefix, but I suggest it should be > used in the first case. For interest the S4 prefix means he was a New Army > Supply and his number falls within the number block 232111 - 264000 with > either a prefix T, S, R or RX 4. > > The ASC is noted for its complicated system of letter prefixes to the > numbering system but [in general] these indicated what 'the Trade or > Employment' of the man and the ASC was split into four branches. Remount; > procured and issued horses for the army. Supply; dealt with supplies within > the ASC [as opposed to the AOC]. Transport; provided all the armies > transport requirements except: Mechanical Transport; the motorised branch of > the Transport section. > > For Alan. > > It is my understanding that a man, volunteer of conscript, had at first a > medical and was required to meet at least the [very] basic needs of that > prior to formal enlistment. > > The entrance medical requirements did reduce over time. I don't think it was > a case of a man enlisting then being discharged due to not being able to > meet the medical requirements for service. > > A man would either attend a pre enlistment medical [often at the same place > and time as recruitment] and fail so not be enlisted or pass and be enlisted > and at some later time due perhaps to service or injuries then be discharged > due to being no longer required for service. > > As to records, yes if a man had passed the initial medical then was enlisted > and at some time later [months or years] was deemed no longer fit for > service due to illness or injury then there should be medical assessments > with his service papers if they survived. If a man attends an initial > medical and fails and so is not enlisted then again there should have been > records maintained at the time if only to prove that a man attended for a > medical and failed. However I doubt very much if these individual pre > enlistment medical records survive. > > Regards > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of ww1-uk-request@rootsweb.com > Sent: 24 March 2013 07:01 > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Not conscripted / failed medicals (Alan Middlemass) > 2. Medal card for Alexander Grant (Marjorie Morrison) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 09:54:19 +0000 > From: Alan Middlemass <alananne@middlemass.org.uk> > Subject: [WW1-UK] Not conscripted / failed medicals > To: WW1-UK@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <514D7BCB.4060906@middlemass.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > My grandfather had two younger brothers who do not appear to be in searches > of military records although apparently of age. > > It seems possible that health may have been reason for one brother being > rejected as he died of Pulmonary Tuberculosis in 1920. > > I have seen records of recruits who have been discharged on grounds of > ill-health. If either brother was rejected on health grounds I would have > thought a personal record would need to be created as proof that they had > gone through an initial stage of recruitment. > Can anyone clarify whether there were rejections on more obvious > physical/mental grounds that did not reach preliminary stages of recruitment > or are these more likely to be lost records? > > -- > Alan Middlemass > Bearpark, Durham, UK > > I have not made any attachments to this mail > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:00:59 -0400 (EDT) > From: Marjorie Morrison <mporteousmorriso@aol.com> > Subject: [WW1-UK] Medal card for Alexander Grant > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8CFF60FE3AA946C-2090-5A973@webmail-m267.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > > Hi, Nivard, > > Yes, that is my grandfather, thank you! I am wondering which serial number > to use in order to look him up as he has a few, or do I look up all the > numbers? His serial number for the RASC is S4/237308 - is the > S4 part included in a search? . I now know from relatives that he fought > in the Somme, but not in the actual big battle and was gassed at > Passchendael (sp?) for which he received a life-long pension. > > Best wishes, > Marjorie Morrison > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 > ************************************* > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:54:35 +0000 > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Medal card for Alexander Grant > To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <514F059B.1060303@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Marjorie > > My advice is to try each and every number you have with and without > first name and or initial > > Whether any records survive for him is another matter, as I said > previously his may be among the approximately two thirds of records that > were destroyed in WW2 > > If you can get a military researcher to check the medal rolls at Kew > there may be a few more snippets on his specific service unit noted there > > The line of service he is in is one of the hardest to research as unlike > an infantry battalion for example where you can check the war diary, his > service may not be noted in a specific area or place > > If you can work out the specific unit, you can then check the Division > and where that division was but it may be difficult even then > > I have had a look through the Alexander GRANTs in the so called pension > papers on Ancestry but not found a mention of him, it may be worth your > while to spend some time going through them again though > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 23/03/2013 19:00, Marjorie Morrison wrote: >> >> >> Hi, Nivard, >> >> Yes, that is my grandfather, thank you! I am wondering which serial >> number to use in order to look him up as he has a few, or do I look up >> all the numbers? His serial number for the RASC is S4/237308 - is the >> S4 part included in a search? . I now know from relatives that he >> fought in the Somme, but not in the actual big battle and was gassed at >> Passchendael (sp?) for which he received a life-long pension. >> >> Best wishes, >> Marjorie Morrison > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WW1-UK Digest, Vol 7, Issue 16 > ************************************* >