We are part of a large club Marged My grandfather died in 1918 leaving my mother just turned six an only child, what may have happened if he had come home and had more children, I can only wonder But we are just two of many so affected Its hard to gauge the differences in peoples lives that the war triggered Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 15:19, Marj Bennett wrote: > Well, there you are, Nirvard - a clear-thinking explanation for me. > I suppose U-boats and torpedoes would be after the ship whether they > knew there was bullion on board or not - but when you lose both > grandfathers at sea during a war (even though you never knew them) it > makes you look for something to be angry at - as well as the war. > Although I didn't lose a beloved person, the course of my families' > lives on both sides, mother's and father's, was changed for the > worse. > > Marged

Well, there you are, Nirvard - a clear-thinking explanation for me. I suppose U-boats and torpedoes would be after the ship whether they knew there was bullion on board or not - but when you lose both grandfathers at sea during a war (even though you never knew them) it makes you look for something to be angry at - as well as the war. Although I didn't lose a beloved person, the course of my families' lives on both sides, mother's and father's, was changed for the worse. Marged Hi Marged Not sure what would make you angry, it was as valid a wartime trip as any other, they needed to pay people or at least leave something as surety Without that there would be no arms or vehicles or whatever was needed for the forces to wage war Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 13:26, Marj Bennett wrote: > Thank you so much Nirvard. > > It always makes me worried and a bit angry when I read that these > ships were not just carrying troops and passengers but gold, as > here: In addition to her passengers and crew, the ship was carrying > about 43 tons of gold ingots stowed in its second class baggage room. > At the time the gold was valued at £5 million, approximately £250 > million in 2007. Royal Navy divers made over 5,000 dives to the wreck > between 1917 and 1924 and recovered all but about 1% of the ingots. > Still to this day 22 bars of gold remain on the sea bed, perhaps > under parts of the hull, the last of the gold recovered by the Royal > Navy was some 10 metres (33.8 feet) under the sea bed, thus the > remaining gold would be difficult to reach.[3] > > > > I have in my possession my grandfather's seaman's discharge book, > which dates back to 1906. He was about 35 when he died in 1917, and > had been at war most of my father's life, so he never knew his dad, > and so far as I know, no photographs survive. > > > > Marged ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6627 - Release Date: 08/31/13

Hi again There is a photo attached to a tree on Ancestry The man is John patrick Buckley It shows a few of the crew of the Laurentic Chances are they are not your man but still, worth looking at Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 13:26, Marj Bennett wrote: > Thank you so much Nirvard. > > It always makes me worried and a bit angry when I read that these ships were not just carrying troops and passengers but gold, as here: > In addition to her passengers and crew, the ship was carrying about 43 tons of gold ingots stowed in its second class baggage room. At the time the gold was valued at £5 million, approximately £250 million in 2007. Royal Navy divers made over 5,000 dives to the wreck between 1917 and 1924 and recovered all but about 1% of the ingots. Still to this day 22 bars of gold remain on the sea bed, perhaps under parts of the hull, the last of the gold recovered by the Royal Navy was some 10 metres (33.8 feet) under the sea bed, thus the remaining gold would be difficult to reach.[3] > > > > I have in my possession my grandfather's seaman's discharge book, which dates back to 1906. He was about 35 when he died in 1917, and had been at war most of my father's life, so he never knew his dad, and so far as I know, no photographs survive. > > > > Marged

Hi Marged Not sure what would make you angry, it was as valid a wartime trip as any other, they needed to pay people or at least leave something as surety Without that there would be no arms or vehicles or whatever was needed for the forces to wage war Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 13:26, Marj Bennett wrote: > Thank you so much Nirvard. > > It always makes me worried and a bit angry when I read that these > ships were not just carrying troops and passengers but gold, as > here: In addition to her passengers and crew, the ship was carrying > about 43 tons of gold ingots stowed in its second class baggage room. > At the time the gold was valued at £5 million, approximately £250 > million in 2007. Royal Navy divers made over 5,000 dives to the wreck > between 1917 and 1924 and recovered all but about 1% of the ingots. > Still to this day 22 bars of gold remain on the sea bed, perhaps > under parts of the hull, the last of the gold recovered by the Royal > Navy was some 10 metres (33.8 feet) under the sea bed, thus the > remaining gold would be difficult to reach.[3] > > > > I have in my possession my grandfather's seaman's discharge book, > which dates back to 1906. He was about 35 when he died in 1917, and > had been at war most of my father's life, so he never knew his dad, > and so far as I know, no photographs survive. > > > > Marged

Thank you so much Nirvard. It always makes me worried and a bit angry when I read that these ships were not just carrying troops and passengers but gold, as here: In addition to her passengers and crew, the ship was carrying about 43 tons of gold ingots stowed in its second class baggage room. At the time the gold was valued at £5 million, approximately £250 million in 2007. Royal Navy divers made over 5,000 dives to the wreck between 1917 and 1924 and recovered all but about 1% of the ingots. Still to this day 22 bars of gold remain on the sea bed, perhaps under parts of the hull, the last of the gold recovered by the Royal Navy was some 10 metres (33.8 feet) under the sea bed, thus the remaining gold would be difficult to reach.[3] I have in my possession my grandfather's seaman's discharge book, which dates back to 1906. He was about 35 when he died in 1917, and had been at war most of my father's life, so he never knew his dad, and so far as I know, no photographs survive. Marged References Hi Marged A little on the ship here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Laurentic_%281908%29 The date was the 25th January 1917 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 10:17, Marj Bennett wrote: > Kirk > > My own grandfather died when the Laurentic sank off the coast of Northern Ireland, on 17th January 1917. I don't have a lot of information and wonder if there is anything you can tell me about this incident? > > Marged ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6627 - Release Date: 08/31/13

Hi Marged A little on the ship here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Laurentic_%281908%29 The date was the 25th January 1917 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 10:17, Marj Bennett wrote: > Kirk > > My own grandfather died when the Laurentic sank off the coast of Northern Ireland, on 17th January 1917. I don't have a lot of information and wonder if there is anything you can tell me about this incident? > > Marged

Hi Kirk From the CWGC HILL, WILLIAM JAMES Rank: Seaman Service No: 2348D Date of Death: 25/01/1917 Regiment/Service: Royal Naval Reserve H.M.S. "Laurentic." Panel Reference 23. Memorial PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL Additional Information: Son of George and H. Hill, of London; husband of Harriet Hill, of 47, Scyborfach St., Swansea. And from Probate Calendars (Ancestry) 1926 HILL William James of 47 Scyborfach street Swansea died 25 January 1917 at sea Administration Carmarthan 4 June to Harriett Atherton (wife of William Henry Atherton) and Joseph Christelow rollerman in tin works Effects £117 15s 9d So although it answers the question, the word Administration means there was no will Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/09/2013 09:58, Mrs Bryn wrote: > Hello all > > I have a query I'm hoping someone may have an answer to. My great grandfather William James Hill died on (or probably off) the Laurentic during WW1 (Jan 1917). > > He was in the Royal Navel Reserve and despite having his service record we have been unable to trace him. Now wondering if perhaps a will might hold a clue to his family. Does anyone know where we might find one? (we have tried the soldiers wills index on Ancestry with no success). > > Yours hopefully > > Kirk

Margaret Your circumstances seem to contradict the bit in the BBC website that wills were in their pocket books. My query arose because my grandfather's nephew [they were similar ages] is commemorated on a memorial and not buried but is described as an able-seaman [as was grandfather] although neither served on a ship but fought in the Royal Naval Division. Hence my query whether the wills were for soldiers, i.e. Army, only or if this is merely a general description of all who fought and that he is missing from the wills because he was one of many RNVR not found. Alan Middlemass Bearpark, Durham, UK I have not made any attachments to this mail On 31/08/2013 17:38, Margaret North wrote: > If it helps I searched for my great-uncle, Richard River Joseph STIRRUP > who died 24 October 1917 and he came up on the search. I haven't as yet > ordered the Will but presumably it will be there. His body was never > found as he is not buried at Tyne Cott but remembered on one of the > panels there. > > Margaret North. > > On 29/08/2013 15:43, Alan Middlemass wrote: >> Two questions come to mind when reading about this. The first is >> probably answered in the second paragraph of BBC site. I assume that the >> will stayed with the soldier and only those soldiers who were found have >> their wills in this storage? >> The second question is about those sailors who fought in the Royal Naval >> Division and whether they would also have made wills like their Army >> colleagues? >> >>

Kirk My own grandfather died when the Laurentic sank off the coast of Northern Ireland, on 17th January 1917. I don't have a lot of information and wonder if there is anything you can tell me about this incident? Marged Hello all I have a query I'm hoping someone may have an answer to. My great grandfather William James Hill died on (or probably off) the Laurentic during WW1 (Jan 1917). He was in the Royal Navel Reserve and despite having his service record we have been unable to trace him. Now wondering if perhaps a will might hold a clue to his family. Does anyone know where we might find one? (we have tried the soldiers wills index on Ancestry with no success). Yours hopefully Kirk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6627 - Release Date: 08/31/13

Hello all I have a query I'm hoping someone may have an answer to. My great grandfather William James Hill died on (or probably off) the Laurentic during WW1 (Jan 1917). He was in the Royal Navel Reserve and despite having his service record we have been unable to trace him. Now wondering if perhaps a will might hold a clue to his family. Does anyone know where we might find one? (we have tried the soldiers wills index on Ancestry with no success). Yours hopefully Kirk

Hi all For those who are not signed up for the CWGC newsletters and may not be aware of them This is the web version <http://newsletters.wizontheweb.co.uk/t/ViewEmail/r/83EB0E1A709321D72540EF23F30FEDED/75EC7964CE60FD456A4D01E12DB8921D> -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

If it helps I searched for my great-uncle, Richard River Joseph STIRRUP who died 24 October 1917 and he came up on the search. I haven't as yet ordered the Will but presumably it will be there. His body was never found as he is not buried at Tyne Cott but remembered on one of the panels there. Margaret North. On 29/08/2013 15:43, Alan Middlemass wrote: > Two questions come to mind when reading about this. The first is > probably answered in the second paragraph of BBC site. I assume that the > will stayed with the soldier and only those soldiers who were found have > their wills in this storage? > The second question is about those sailors who fought in the Royal Naval > Division and whether they would also have made wills like their Army > colleagues? > > > > On 29/08/2013 14:14, Nivard Ovington wrote: >> Hi all >> >> I must have missed a part of the post >> >> You can search the index for these soldiers wills now >> >> You need a surname and year of death >> >> <https://www.probatesearch.service.gov.uk/> >> >> Curiously my grandfathers will is not in the above index but does appear >> in the Probate calendars, despite his death being a war death in France >> >> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >> >> On 29/08/2013 09:45, Nivard Ovington wrote: >>> Hi all >>> >>> Thought this may be of interest >>> >>> <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821> >>> >>> Regarding the English soldiers wills, what I found interesting was that >>> the three mentioned on the BBC page, do not seem to be in the Probate >>> indexes on Ancestry >>> >>> My own grandfathers will, which I already have a copy of, is listed in >>> the Probate indexes, he died in France in 1918 >>> >>> So perhaps there are more wills amongst these that may shed light on >>> soldiers >>> >>> The Irish wills are already available >>> >>> <http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/search/sw/home.jsp> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >

Two questions come to mind when reading about this. The first is probably answered in the second paragraph of BBC site. I assume that the will stayed with the soldier and only those soldiers who were found have their wills in this storage? The second question is about those sailors who fought in the Royal Naval Division and whether they would also have made wills like their Army colleagues? On 29/08/2013 14:14, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi all > > I must have missed a part of the post > > You can search the index for these soldiers wills now > > You need a surname and year of death > > <https://www.probatesearch.service.gov.uk/> > > Curiously my grandfathers will is not in the above index but does appear > in the Probate calendars, despite his death being a war death in France > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 29/08/2013 09:45, Nivard Ovington wrote: >> >> Hi all >> >> Thought this may be of interest >> >> <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821> >> >> Regarding the English soldiers wills, what I found interesting was that >> the three mentioned on the BBC page, do not seem to be in the Probate >> indexes on Ancestry >> >> My own grandfathers will, which I already have a copy of, is listed in >> the Probate indexes, he died in France in 1918 >> >> So perhaps there are more wills amongst these that may shed light on >> soldiers >> >> The Irish wills are already available >> >> <http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/search/sw/home.jsp> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- Alan Middlemass Bearpark, Durham I have not made any attachments to this email

Hi all I must have missed a part of the post You can search the index for these soldiers wills now You need a surname and year of death <https://www.probatesearch.service.gov.uk/> Curiously my grandfathers will is not in the above index but does appear in the Probate calendars, despite his death being a war death in France Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 29/08/2013 09:45, Nivard Ovington wrote: > > Hi all > > Thought this may be of interest > > <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821> > > Regarding the English soldiers wills, what I found interesting was that > the three mentioned on the BBC page, do not seem to be in the Probate > indexes on Ancestry > > My own grandfathers will, which I already have a copy of, is listed in > the Probate indexes, he died in France in 1918 > > So perhaps there are more wills amongst these that may shed light on > soldiers > > The Irish wills are already available > > <http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/search/sw/home.jsp> > >

Hi all Thought this may be of interest <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821> Regarding the English soldiers wills, what I found interesting was that the three mentioned on the BBC page, do not seem to be in the Probate indexes on Ancestry My own grandfathers will, which I already have a copy of, is listed in the Probate indexes, he died in France in 1918 So perhaps there are more wills amongst these that may shed light on soldiers The Irish wills are already available <http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/search/sw/home.jsp> -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi April The Club in question you were asking about is the "Essex Artillery Volunteers Club" That is, a Club for and to support the Essex Artillery Volunteers Rather than a Club for "Essex Artillery" There were many Volunteer groups, infantry, artillery, engineer etc all over the Country, they were at first not attached to the Forces proper but were often run by the local gentry, a sort of local militia Later some were taken under the wing of whatever branch of the military was relevant (circa 1881) some later still Some of these amalgamated and later became territorial units Many men from the Volunteers later joined the Forces proper My grandfather was in a rifle volunteer unit in Nottinghamshire and later served and died in the RASC in France 1918 I would suspect that the members of the club were more or less anyone in the area, I very much doubt there was any form of exclusivity to joining, if indeed joining was necessary As I said before, try the records office to see if they have anything on the club, but I suspect that any records were the private property of the club and may not have survived or been deposited I know its not what you want to hear but fear thats the case Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/08/2013 11:00, Ashton April wrote: > Could an expert inform me whether the term "Essex Artillery" would have been a collective term for several Essex Battalions / Regiments ..... there was Essex Artillery Club on the Romford Road West Ham during WW1 and I am trying to understand who may have been eligible to use its facilities- whatever they may have been. > > Thank you, April Wood Ashton

Could an expert inform me whether the term "Essex Artillery" would have been a collective term for several Essex Battalions / Regiments ..... there was Essex Artillery Club on the Romford Road West Ham during WW1 and I am trying to understand who may have been eligible to use its facilities- whatever they may have been. Thank you, April Wood Ashton

Thank you, yesI have, and they are able to tell me that it was still there in 1916 they have also suggested that I also contact Newham Archives, which I have now done. April On 27 Aug 2013, at 11:04, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi again > > My first port of call would be the Essex Records Office and ask them if > they have anything on the Club > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 27/08/2013 10:57, Ashton April wrote: >> Dear Nivard >> >> Thank you so much - I would be interested to know < the names of members who are serving with the forces was hung on the club walls on Saturday evening. > >> whether this record has survived - and whether they subsequently produced a list of war casualties - any ideas? >> >> This club was next door to where my grandmother was living in 1916! >> >> Kind regards, >> April > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again My first port of call would be the Essex Records Office and ask them if they have anything on the Club Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/08/2013 10:57, Ashton April wrote: > Dear Nivard > > Thank you so much - I would be interested to know < the names of members who are serving with the forces was hung on the club walls on Saturday evening. > > whether this record has survived - and whether they subsequently produced a list of war casualties - any ideas? > > This club was next door to where my grandmother was living in 1916! > > Kind regards, > April

Dear Nivard Thank you so much - I would be interested to know < the names of members who are serving with the forces was hung on the club walls on Saturday evening. > whether this record has survived - and whether they subsequently produced a list of war casualties - any ideas? This club was next door to where my grandmother was living in 1916! Kind regards, April On 27 Aug 2013, at 10:35, Nivard Ovington wrote: > > Hi April > > The club was still going in at least 1925 > > From the papers > > > Chelmsford Chronicle March 30, 1906 > > Volunteer Presentation > > At a smoking concert held at the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club, the > Green, Mr Chris S CATT, who has rendered good service to the Club for > the last three years as honorary entertainment secretary, was presented > with a gold watch > > -------------- > > Chelmsford Chronicle Feb 16 1912 > > Stratford > > The childrens part given by the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club took > place at the Town Hall. Nearly 700 were present. Mrs Chris S CATT was > the hon sec. The helpers members and friends numbering over 300, > afterwards held a dance. The Artillery Band under Mr W HEGERTY supplied > the music > > ----------- > > Essex Newsman June 26, 1915 > > In the presence of a large number of members of the Essex Artillery > Volunteers Club, a roll of honour containing the names of members who > are serving with the forces was hung on the club walls on Saturday > evening. The ceremony of "hanging" the roll was performed by Mr R W > BURTON, the chairman of the club. > > ----------- > > Chelmsford Chronicle February 20, 1925 > > The Essex Artillery Volunteers Club at Stratford gave its 31st annual > party to 700 children at Stratford Town Hall > > ----------- > > Many of these clubs were formed during the mid 1800's on and were social > clubs for those who were part of or something to do with the Volunteers > (of which there were many groups around the Country) > Later many of them became Territorial units > > I would be very surprised if they were in any way an exclusive club for > the Artillery but rather anyone with an interest or connection to the > Volunteers or anyone else who wanted to join > > The clubs were formed to support the volunteers and were not necessarily > exclusive > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 27/08/2013 08:54, Ashton April wrote: >> Does anyone have any knowledge of the Essex Artillery Volunteer Club? It was located at 96 Romford Road, West Ham in 1911- was it still there in 1916 and if so is it likely that its membership was restricted to Essex Artillery? Thank you. >> April Wood Ashton > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message