Hi Marj My mothers mother remained a widow until she died at the early age of 51, so only had one child, my mum didn't fair much better as she was taken with the big C at 57, she was a chain smoker of the inappropriately named Players Mild More like Capstan Full strength Despite my mum being an only child and dad being one of two boys they seem to have made up for it as I am the youngest of ten Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2014 15:16, Marj Bennett wrote: > Well, there you are Nivard, both my grandmothers re-married. Dad's > mother didn't have any more children, but my Mum's mother had two more - > one of whom is still alive aged 93 and has a large family of her own, so > she would have been missed! > However, my own father, having lost his dad at 5, was sent to the > Training Ship "Indefatigable" at the age of 12, then joined the Cunard > line at about 15, serving until 1936. He was a sitting duck for WW2 > service, as he joined the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, aboard the > "Eaglet" so he was called up right away and served in all sorts of > conflict during WW2, and died from lung cancer aged 41 in 1953 (possibly > due to all those free Navy issue Woodbines he smoked). > Marj

Hi Nivard, My relation Wilfred Smith born 1897 at Hurley Warwickshire joined the Royal Warwickshire regiment Reg No. 42526 in 1916 he died in France 3rd November 1918 I have the photo of his grave etc but wondered if the Royal Warwickshire Regiment would have any photos at all. Originally he joined the Royal Berkshire regiment in 1914 Reg No. 11823 but was discharged because of ill health April 1915 Don't know whether the Berkshire regiment would have any photos at all He was based at Portsmouth when he was with this regiment Perhaps you may be able to advise me Many thanks Cheers Marilyn from Western Australia At 09:27 PM 6/11/2014, you wrote: >In some cases there may be mention of a mans specific unit or other >detail, therefore may be the only record over and above the medal card It >will not add anything to many unfortuneatly but the only way to find out >is to check The Allied Subjects Medal roll is I think entirely new data >The Territorial medal adds many more to the ones in the medal rolls >(double the number although some will be duplicates) >=============================== About UK, WWI Service Medal and Award >Rolls, 1914-1920 This collection contains records of people who served in >WWI and were entitled to medals and awards. Records include details such >as name, rank, unit, and possibly other service details. The National >Archives (England) describes them as follows: The volumes in this series >record the entitlement to medals and awards of men and women serving in >some capacity during the First World War. Most pieces concern those >serving in the Army. Some, however, refer to the Royal Flying Corps/Royal >Air Force (RFC/RAF); to civilians in military establishments, e.g. doctors >and nurses in hospitals; to people mobilized for other war service, e.g. >in colonial labour corps; and to allied personnel who assisted British >soldiers behind enemy lines. The volumes also give the date the issue was >approved and record the issue, or cross-refer to another issuing body, >e.g. the Air Ministry for some members of the RFC/RAF receiving the >British War and Allied Victory Medals. The medals and awards concerned >are: The British War Medal; The Allied Victory Medal; The >1914 Star (the Mons Star) and bar added in 1919; The 1914­15 >SStar; The Territorial Force War Medal; The Allied Subjects >Medal. -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Well, there you are Nivard, both my grandmothers re-married. Dad's mother didn't have any more children, but my Mum's mother had two more - one of whom is still alive aged 93 and has a large family of her own, so she would have been missed! However, my own father, having lost his dad at 5, was sent to the Training Ship "Indefatigable" at the age of 12, then joined the Cunard line at about 15, serving until 1936. He was a sitting duck for WW2 service, as he joined the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, aboard the "Eaglet" so he was called up right away and served in all sorts of conflict during WW2, and died from lung cancer aged 41 in 1953 (possibly due to all those free Navy issue Woodbines he smoked). Marj Hi Marj I think there are a great number of "what ifs" Yours, mine and at least another 1,012,073 others (total estimated casualties for the UK) What if my grandfather came home and my mother had siblings, they would very likely have lived in a different place, done different things I suspect my mother would never have met my father and then what :-( Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2014 13:18, Marj Bennett via wrote: > As I always do, I am thinking of my two grandfathers who were both lost at sea, during WW1. Because of the position of their surnames in the alphabet, they face ach other on the Memorial Panels in the basement of Liverpool Town Hall. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Laurentic_(1908) It's hard to accept that a ship at war could be carrying the vast quantities of gold bullion that Laurentic was carrying. Also - that it was important enough to dive for the gold in 1917 as stated in this article. > My grandfather Robert Edward Mackay Campbell Ingham died on this ship, leaving a daughter aged 10 and my father aged 5 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cornwallis_(1901) > She also supported the landings at Morto Bay on 25 April 1915. I know this ship picked up Australian Troops en route to the Dardanelles, and the family story is that my grandfather, William Hughes, had "volunteered" to row troops ashore at Gallipoli and "the Turks were waiting for them in the hills". My mother was four weeks old at the time, so William had never seen her. He also left a son aged 3 and a stepson aged 5. > > Can't help wondering how different life might have been if my parents had grown up with their own fathers! Both men were 35 years old, and both were seamen in peacetime as well as in war - William Hughes had received a medal for his service on the "High Flyer" from the South African War of 1902. > > Marj ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4189/8526 - Release Date: 11/07/14

Hi Marj I think there are a great number of "what ifs" Yours, mine and at least another 1,012,073 others (total estimated casualties for the UK) What if my grandfather came home and my mother had siblings, they would very likely have lived in a different place, done different things I suspect my mother would never have met my father and then what :-( Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2014 13:18, Marj Bennett via wrote: > As I always do, I am thinking of my two grandfathers who were both lost at sea, during WW1. Because of the position of their surnames in the alphabet, they face ach other on the Memorial Panels in the basement of Liverpool Town Hall. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Laurentic_(1908) It's hard to accept that a ship at war could be carrying the vast quantities of gold bullion that Laurentic was carrying. Also - that it was important enough to dive for the gold in 1917 as stated in this article. > My grandfather Robert Edward Mackay Campbell Ingham died on this ship, leaving a daughter aged 10 and my father aged 5 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cornwallis_(1901) > She also supported the landings at Morto Bay on 25 April 1915. I know this ship picked up Australian Troops en route to the Dardanelles, and the family story is that my grandfather, William Hughes, had "volunteered" to row troops ashore at Gallipoli and "the Turks were waiting for them in the hills". My mother was four weeks old at the time, so William had never seen her. He also left a son aged 3 and a stepson aged 5. > > Can't help wondering how different life might have been if my parents had grown up with their own fathers! Both men were 35 years old, and both were seamen in peacetime as well as in war - William Hughes had received a medal for his service on the "High Flyer" from the South African War of 1902. > > Marj

As I always do, I am thinking of my two grandfathers who were both lost at sea, during WW1. Because of the position of their surnames in the alphabet, they face ach other on the Memorial Panels in the basement of Liverpool Town Hall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Laurentic_(1908) It's hard to accept that a ship at war could be carrying the vast quantities of gold bullion that Laurentic was carrying. Also - that it was important enough to dive for the gold in 1917 as stated in this article. My grandfather Robert Edward Mackay Campbell Ingham died on this ship, leaving a daughter aged 10 and my father aged 5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cornwallis_(1901) She also supported the landings at Morto Bay on 25 April 1915. I know this ship picked up Australian Troops en route to the Dardanelles, and the family story is that my grandfather, William Hughes, had "volunteered" to row troops ashore at Gallipoli and "the Turks were waiting for them in the hills". My mother was four weeks old at the time, so William had never seen her. He also left a son aged 3 and a stepson aged 5. Can't help wondering how different life might have been if my parents had grown up with their own fathers! Both men were 35 years old, and both were seamen in peacetime as well as in war - William Hughes had received a medal for his service on the "High Flyer" from the South African War of 1902. Marj ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4189/8526 - Release Date: 11/07/14

Thank you David and I agree with my realists head, it is just that when I see such programmes as Passing Bells I feel so sad and frustrated at the suffering loss of life war causes, however justified it may be. I haven't read 'To Win a War' but on your recommendation I have put it on my reading list. The library doesn't seem to have a copy available to reserve so it will be down to Amazon I think. Margaret. On 06/11/2014 17:39, railton.david via wrote: > There is an answer. In my opinion the best view of WWI has been given by the > historian, John Terraine. He has written extensively on the subject I would > particularly recommend 'To Win a War'. Although this particular book is > about the last year of the war it does give what appears to be well > researched information on the causes of the war and more particularly its > aftermath. He puts to rest a lot of the myths about the subject. His heroes > are the British and French generals and the British and French armies (Haigh > being very far from the incompetent he was later made out to be); his > baddies, (among the allies) British and French politicians. But most of all > he tells us that is was a righteous war made necessary by Germany's desire > for domination and their plans for their hoped for conquered peoples; > somewhat reminiscent to later plans put forward by Hitler. It appears that > what was in store for us all if Germany had won WWI was not much less awful > than a different outcome to WWII would have been. This made it essential > that the allies fought and won this war whatever the cost. He also tells us > that the nature of the war was not due to incompetence but to the time being > a changeover in the technical aspects of warfare. The French and British > fought a just war and all those who gave their lives in it should be > honoured for the part they played in avoiding the likely horrors of a post > war German dominated Europe. > > David Railton > > -----Original Message----- > From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Margaret North via > Sent: 06 November 2014 17:05 > To: Nivard Ovington; ww1-uk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Passing Bells > > I have been watching the programme and find it thought provoking and quite > moving. It starts up the questions in my mind about how civilised people > could allow such things to happen; questions that have been asked over and > over again with still no real answer. > > Margaret North. > > On 05/11/2014 13:12, Nivard Ovington via wrote: >> Hi all >> >> Has anyone watched the five parter on BBC1 at 7pm (half hour a show) >> Passing Bells >> >> Its a glimpse into the world of one English and one German young men >> who joined up to fight >> >> Its not a blow by blow account but rather dips in here and there for >> brief moments, it does capture a little of what we might imagine it to >> be like (I do say imagine as nothing could come close to the horror of >> the actual events) >> >> Somewhat at a frenetic pace, it is still very watchable so far (two >> episodes in) >> >> Available on iplayer for those in the UK >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Marilyn I confess the chances are very slim indeed It would not stop me asking either regimental museum but they may not have anything on individual soldiers records, much less photos I suspect if they have any photos they would be unnamed Certainly worth asking though The British Army had no facility or need to take photos of individuals or groups, some were taken with the kodak vest camera and sent back home, but these were mostly of and by officers as it was not a cheap hobby (photos on the front line were banned until 1916) I have a similar hope for my grandfather who also died in France three weeks after your man My mother had a head and shoulders photo of him in uniform taken before he went to France, I remember it well but do not know what became of it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/11/2014 08:00, Watson Family wrote: > Hi Nivard, > My relation Wilfred Smith born 1897 at Hurley Warwickshire joined the > Royal Warwickshire regiment Reg No. 42526 > in 1916 he died in France 3rd November 1918 I have the photo of his > grave etc but wondered if the Royal Warwickshire Regiment would have any > photos at all. Originally he joined the Royal Berkshire regiment in 1914 > Reg No. 11823 but was discharged because of ill health April 1915 Don't > know whether the Berkshire regiment would have any photos at all He was > based at Portsmouth when he was with this regiment > Perhaps you may be able to advise me > Many thanks > Cheers Marilyn from Western Australia

There is an answer. In my opinion the best view of WWI has been given by the historian, John Terraine. He has written extensively on the subject I would particularly recommend 'To Win a War'. Although this particular book is about the last year of the war it does give what appears to be well researched information on the causes of the war and more particularly its aftermath. He puts to rest a lot of the myths about the subject. His heroes are the British and French generals and the British and French armies (Haigh being very far from the incompetent he was later made out to be); his baddies, (among the allies) British and French politicians. But most of all he tells us that is was a righteous war made necessary by Germany's desire for domination and their plans for their hoped for conquered peoples; somewhat reminiscent to later plans put forward by Hitler. It appears that what was in store for us all if Germany had won WWI was not much less awful than a different outcome to WWII would have been. This made it essential that the allies fought and won this war whatever the cost. He also tells us that the nature of the war was not due to incompetence but to the time being a changeover in the technical aspects of warfare. The French and British fought a just war and all those who gave their lives in it should be honoured for the part they played in avoiding the likely horrors of a post war German dominated Europe. David Railton -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret North via Sent: 06 November 2014 17:05 To: Nivard Ovington; ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WW1-UK] Passing Bells I have been watching the programme and find it thought provoking and quite moving. It starts up the questions in my mind about how civilised people could allow such things to happen; questions that have been asked over and over again with still no real answer. Margaret North. On 05/11/2014 13:12, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi all > > Has anyone watched the five parter on BBC1 at 7pm (half hour a show) > Passing Bells > > Its a glimpse into the world of one English and one German young men > who joined up to fight > > Its not a blow by blow account but rather dips in here and there for > brief moments, it does capture a little of what we might imagine it to > be like (I do say imagine as nothing could come close to the horror of > the actual events) > > Somewhat at a frenetic pace, it is still very watchable so far (two > episodes in) > > Available on iplayer for those in the UK > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have been watching the programme and find it thought provoking and quite moving. It starts up the questions in my mind about how civilised people could allow such things to happen; questions that have been asked over and over again with still no real answer. Margaret North. On 05/11/2014 13:12, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi all > > Has anyone watched the five parter on BBC1 at 7pm (half hour a show) > Passing Bells > > Its a glimpse into the world of one English and one German young men who > joined up to fight > > Its not a blow by blow account but rather dips in here and there for > brief moments, it does capture a little of what we might imagine it to > be like (I do say imagine as nothing could come close to the horror of > the actual events) > > Somewhat at a frenetic pace, it is still very watchable so far (two > episodes in) > > Available on iplayer for those in the UK > >

In some cases there may be mention of a mans specific unit or other detail, therefore may be the only record over and above the medal card It will not add anything to many unfortuneatly but the only way to find out is to check The Allied Subjects Medal roll is I think entirely new data The Territorial medal adds many more to the ones in the medal rolls (double the number although some will be duplicates) =============================== About UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 This collection contains records of people who served in WWI and were entitled to medals and awards. Records include details such as name, rank, unit, and possibly other service details. The National Archives (England) describes them as follows: The volumes in this series record the entitlement to medals and awards of men and women serving in some capacity during the First World War. Most pieces concern those serving in the Army. Some, however, refer to the Royal Flying Corps/Royal Air Force (RFC/RAF); to civilians in military establishments, e.g. doctors and nurses in hospitals; to people mobilized for other war service, e.g. in colonial labour corps; and to allied personnel who assisted British soldiers behind enemy lines. The volumes also give the date the issue was approved and record the issue, or cross-refer to another issuing body, e.g. the Air Ministry for some members of the RFC/RAF receiving the British War and Allied Victory Medals. The medals and awards concerned are: The British War Medal; The Allied Victory Medal; The 1914 Star (the Mons Star) and bar added in 1919; The 1914–15 Star; The Territorial Force War Medal; The Allied Subjects Medal. -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

As the timing of this offer is a little unusual and conflicts a little with the forwarded post, here follows the terms & conditions from Findmypasts own site In effect the offer is from 12 noon Friday the 7th Nov and up to 11:59am (mid-day) Monday the 10th November GMT Terms and Conditions Free access lasts from 12:00pm midday (GMT) on Friday 7th November 2014 until 11:59am (GMT) on Monday 10 November 2014. To access the records you will need to be signed in at Findmypast: you can register for free using your name, email address and country of residence. The free access excludes the UK Electoral Registers (2002-2013) and the UK Companies House Directors (2002-2013) record sets. Current Findmypast Local subscribers (whilst they have an active Britain, Ireland, US & Canada or Australia & New Zealand subscription) will be able to access all World records (except those listed above) during the free access weekend. Current Findmypast World subscribers (with active World subscriptions expiring after 11:59am (GMT) on Friday 7 November 2014, excluding Findmypast Library accounts) will have an additional three days added on to their subscription. Free access is subject to our fair usage policy: each account may view up to a maximum of 1,000 records per day. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > FindMyPast are offering free access 12:00 GMT Friday 7 Nov until 11.59 > on Sunday 11 Nov to coincide with Remembrance Weekend. Current Local > subscribers will have access to World records and current World > Subscribers with expiry after 11 Nov will have three days added to their > subscription. Click link for details > http://www.findmypast.co.uk/freeweekend?_ga=1.85387929.1402584443.1396541479

Thank you for this information, Nivard, and thank you for all the information you send to the list all the time. Marj Hi all Has anyone watched the five parter on BBC1 at 7pm (half hour a show) Passing Bells Its a glimpse into the world of one English and one German young men who joined up to fight Its not a blow by blow account but rather dips in here and there for brief moments, it does capture a little of what we might imagine it to be like (I do say imagine as nothing could come close to the horror of the actual events) Somewhat at a frenetic pace, it is still very watchable so far (two episodes in) Available on iplayer for those in the UK -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4189/8514 - Release Date: 11/05/14

Hi all Has anyone watched the five parter on BBC1 at 7pm (half hour a show) Passing Bells Its a glimpse into the world of one English and one German young men who joined up to fight Its not a blow by blow account but rather dips in here and there for brief moments, it does capture a little of what we might imagine it to be like (I do say imagine as nothing could come close to the horror of the actual events) Somewhat at a frenetic pace, it is still very watchable so far (two episodes in) Available on iplayer for those in the UK -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

As posted on another list, thought it may be of interest to some Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) FindMyPast are offering free access 12:00 GMT Friday 7 Nov until 11.59 on Sunday 11 Nov to coincide with Remembrance Weekend. Current Local subscribers will have access to World records and current World Subscribers with expiry after 11 Nov will have three days added to their subscription. Click link for details http://www.findmypast.co.uk/freeweekend?_ga=1.85387929.1402584443.1396541479

There is facility to sign up for the newsletter at the foot of the page <http://newsletters.wizontheweb.co.uk/t/ViewEmail/r/6397CF0AEA90B1542540EF23F30FEDED/75EC7964CE60FD456A4D01E12DB8921D> -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi April It would be a mixture of the two There were Government controlled munitions factories As in <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filling_Factories_in_the_United_Kingdom> But there were many other factories in private hands who switched over to making arms and munitions for the government and were paid by them but were to all intents and purposes still private companies I suspect the former may have staff records, perhaps worth checking with the National Archives, the private ones I would expect to have done their own recruiting and as they were private companies, some may survive whilst others have been destroyed Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/09/2014 16:17, Ashton April via wrote: > Can anyone inform me whether the munitions factories were government controlled during WW1- or were they in the private sector - I assume, the buildings were converted from another prewar industry? > > If government controlled, were employment records maintained and have they survived? > > Thank you, > April Wood Ashton.

Can anyone inform me whether the munitions factories were government controlled during WW1- or were they in the private sector - I assume, the buildings were converted from another prewar industry? If government controlled, were employment records maintained and have they survived? Thank you, April Wood Ashton.

Try a google for 51st Auxiliary Bus Company, RASC -----Original Message----- From: ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ww1-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maureen Mitchell via Sent: 07 September 2014 14:29 To: ww1-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: [WW1-UK] WW1 abreviations Hi, I've come across the following entry in the 1918-1919 Absent voters list: Pte, 51st Aux. Bur. Co., M.T., A.S.C. I understand Pte = private, M.T = Motor Transport and A.S.C = Army Service Corps but what, exactly, was Aux. Bur. Co? Many thanks Maureen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WW1-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I've come across the following entry in the 1918-1919 Absent voters list: Pte, 51st Aux. Bur. Co., M.T., A.S.C. I understand Pte = private, M.T = Motor Transport and A.S.C = Army Service Corps but what, exactly, was Aux. Bur. Co? Many thanks Maureen

Hi Linda His service record is available on findmypast He was a groom when he attested 13th March 1896 at Shorncliffe Served until transferred to Reserve 13th March 1903 (he does not appear to have been in South Africa) Re-engaged 12th March 1908 Discharged 12th March 1912 Next of kin William Henry father Wife Clara CHEESEMAN Children Mabel, Thomas, George, Annie & Arthur Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/09/2014 13:34, LINDA MARTIN via wrote: > My grandfather Thomas Oliver Hicks b. 1878, Chilham, Kent, signed up when was 18 in 1896. He was in the Buffs (East Kent Regiment), 3rd Foot, Soldier # 5020. > > I "think" he was a career soldier, where could I find more information regarding where he served etc.? Are these records likely to have survived? > > Thank you, Linda