Cousin Rick; When you look at all the Burgess,s & McNeelys marrying, its hard to see why incest didnt happen. But I guess the older folks told them who was kin to whom. The ancestors had livestock and knew what would happen if farm animals intrabred is another reason.Usually, the offspring would be lame, but not all the time. I have a neighbor here in Cleveland who told me she had to leave Harts Creek to get married; She was close kin to every one else on the creek,ha Shelby

It would be a big shock to find you match a different surname altogether. A man contacted me because his ydna matched the surname Berry and that is not his name. That was my maternal grandmother's maiden name. My maternal lines cluster in Eastern KY and southern Jackson Co., WVa. I was very glad mine came back matching three Stewart men after hearing about men who did not match their surname. Incest - how would we know if it did exist in our lines. The man who wrote about the Stewarts in Kith and Kin for Boone Co. privately told a descendent he found incest in my Stewarts. I have looked and looked and can't find a thing that would indicate incest. First cousin marriages were once common especially in the South. Just a year ago two second cousins in my maternal lines married - Berrys again. There was some talk of course, but why not? Rick

I have double checked both sides of my families, and cant find any evidence of incest The closest is my aunt Lucinda Baisden, who married her second cousin Amos Baisden. Some of the Burgess,s married first cousins, but not in my immediate line. Shelby

> My grandmother was illigimate, but she was always proud to say her father > was a Hager. Not many around who will say that to the public. My great-grandma was a loving Quaker lady...a little too much. My Grandma didn't find out who her father really was until she was 16....her Aunt Lizzie's husband. When Grandma married an older man shortly after the birth of her baby brother her new husband confessed that her mother's new baby was his. He was filled with remorse about the pregnancy he asked his ex-lover what he could do to make it up. Her answer was to marry her young daughter. My Mom and a "Bruncle" Cecil....her half-brother and also uncle. Families sure get confusing, don't they?

I agree with you as well, LuAnne. I have encountered people who took the yDNA to find their ancestors and matched another surname altogether. That could come as a shock. I was relieved when I did match exactly with three other Stewart men. Members of my family got up in arms when I started my research. My one surviving grand aunt won't discuss my research. Rick > > From: "LuAnne Baker" <lbaker@san.rr.com> > Date: 2006/06/20 Tue PM 12:06:10 EDT > To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [WVLOGAN] Secrets > > Well, I'll jump in here... > > I totally agree if we are talking about 100 years ago and the involved > parties are gone. But when we are talking about living people, I don't > think I do. I know of at least three cases in my extended family where > "secrets" are either common knowledge or my research has uncovered new info > proving something no one knew. But the children involved, who are now 50-90 > years old, may not know the truth or may have grown up doing everything they > could to bury the truth. While it is statistics, info, genealogy, facts, > etc. to us as researchers, to them it is their LIVES. I think it is like > sticking one's nose in where it doesn't belong to publish or publicly share > that info, even though I do record it in my files. > > One of my three cases, the "child" came to me because of my research and > asked me to find the truth. Once found, he had definite ideas of how it > should be recorded. While nowadays it is no big deal, these people weren't > raised nowadays and, to them, it can be a big deal. > > Probably the best rule of thumb and one I try to follow is not to provide > any info on any person (secrets or not) not confirmed to be deceased unless > it is easily verifiable (i.e. via census or some other widely available > resource.) I am often amazed by what I see being posted on some of the > genealogy boards, including data about living people... Even contact > information, like addresses and phone numbers. I think we get so caught up > in the genealogy research, what we can find and what we can prove, that we > lose sight of the fact that these are real people who might care what we > write about them. > > Just my two cents. > LuAnne > > -----Original Message----- > From: gracie [mailto:g.winters@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:55 AM > To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WVLOGAN] Secrets > > > Oh, come on, ya'll, get out of the 1950s. In this day, there are single > parents, sperm banks, gay marriages, cloning, etc. > > Genealogy is about telling the truth and showing proof, geez, just made > a rhyme. rofl We all work so hard to make sure we have the right > information on everything else. Shoot , just put in the mother and if you > know the father , put him in, don't worry about a marriage licence. So much > of the time we don't have those for the ones who did marry. So our ancestors > weren't perfect, neither are we. Quit tiptoeing around about descretions > over 100 years ago. Tis a better subject than the wars in mho. I know, wars > are a part of genie too. I just don't like to think about them. I have such > a delicate personality. (Now really on the floor laughing) > > Sorry for being so blunt but I just came in from weedeating(not my > favorite job) and I am sweaty, itchy, and the other itchy word. The one with > the B. > > Gracie > hoping I don't get banned for this one. > > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

My gg grandfather Andrew Jackson Mullins (1843 to 1873) had a child named Goldie Burgess. Her name is on his Civil War papers as beneficiary. This was before his marriage to Almira Jarrell. I cannot find Goldie Burgess on any census records and do not know the mother's given name. I would like to know what happened to her. She must have been born right around the time the War began or a short time before. I assume she lived in the Spruce Fork area around Blair. Does anyone have a Goldie Burgess born ca. 1860 in their records? Gracie, I fully agree with you. Rick

Hello Carole - Thanks for the input. Everyone must have known about the child in the Spruce Fork area. I am looking for info on her and will post what I know later. Thanks. Rick > > From: "Carole Hammond" <carole.hammond@comcast.net> > Date: 2006/06/20 Tue AM 12:28:14 EDT > To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WVLOGAN] Secrets > > >>One of my Logan Co. gg grandfathers had a child born to a young lady prior > >>to 1861 - maybe late 1850s. She was listed as his next of kin on his > >>military papers. How do you all handle this sort of thing?<< > > Rick, > > If everyone is dead and everyone knew about it anyway then I put it in. You > are right....we all have a lot of them if we go back far enough. With some > children I know the fathers and some I don't....like the father of my > gr-gr-grandma's last three children. I was astounded when I found that her > husband had died three years before my ancestress was born....then she went > on to have two more. > > My genealogy program, RootsMagic, allows me to enter it and gives me an > option to keep it private. > > Carole > > > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

That would be a shocker, wouldn't it?? Never thought of that. Ha ha LuAnne -----Original Message----- From: rcs5@bellsouth.net [mailto:rcs5@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:20 AM To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: RE: [WVLOGAN] Secrets I agree with you as well, LuAnne. I have encountered people who took the yDNA to find their ancestors and matched another surname altogether. That could come as a shock. I was relieved when I did match exactly with three other Stewart men. Members of my family got up in arms when I started my research. My one surviving grand aunt won't discuss my research. Rick

Oh, come on, ya'll, get out of the 1950s. In this day, there are single parents, sperm banks, gay marriages, cloning, etc. Genealogy is about telling the truth and showing proof, geez, just made a rhyme. rofl We all work so hard to make sure we have the right information on everything else. Shoot , just put in the mother and if you know the father , put him in, don't worry about a marriage licence. So much of the time we don't have those for the ones who did marry. So our ancestors weren't perfect, neither are we. Quit tiptoeing around about descretions over 100 years ago. Tis a better subject than the wars in mho. I know, wars are a part of genie too. I just don't like to think about them. I have such a delicate personality. (Now really on the floor laughing) Sorry for being so blunt but I just came in from weedeating(not my favorite job) and I am sweaty, itchy, and the other itchy word. The one with the B. Gracie hoping I don't get banned for this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "suebod" <suebod@tampabay.rr.com> To: <WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:09 AM Subject: [WVLOGAN] Secrets > The elders may want to keep this stuff hidden in the closet but if their > child needed a kidney transplant or a full medical history would save a > grandchild, and these are things I've run into helping other families, bet > grandma would spill the beans as to who's the daddy. > > When you're 65, you don't want money from your 89 year old biological > father, but you would like to know if he and all his family had diabetes, > gout or heart disease. > > Sue > > > At 09:28 PM 6/19/06 -0700, you wrote: > >>>One of my Logan Co. gg grandfathers had a child born to a young lady > >>>prior to 1861 - maybe late 1850s. She was listed as his next of kin on > >>>his military papers. How do you all handle this sort of thing?<< > > > > > >============================== > >Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > >New content added every business day. Learn more: > >http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

My grandmother was illigimate, but she was always proud to say her father was a Hager.Not many around who will say that to the public. Shelby

The elders may want to keep this stuff hidden in the closet but if their child needed a kidney transplant or a full medical history would save a grandchild, and these are things I've run into helping other families, bet grandma would spill the beans as to who's the daddy. When you're 65, you don't want money from your 89 year old biological father, but you would like to know if he and all his family had diabetes, gout or heart disease. Sue At 09:28 PM 6/19/06 -0700, you wrote: >>>One of my Logan Co. gg grandfathers had a child born to a young lady >>>prior to 1861 - maybe late 1850s. She was listed as his next of kin on >>>his military papers. How do you all handle this sort of thing?<< > > >============================== >Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >New content added every business day. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Well, I'll jump in here... I totally agree if we are talking about 100 years ago and the involved parties are gone. But when we are talking about living people, I don't think I do. I know of at least three cases in my extended family where "secrets" are either common knowledge or my research has uncovered new info proving something no one knew. But the children involved, who are now 50-90 years old, may not know the truth or may have grown up doing everything they could to bury the truth. While it is statistics, info, genealogy, facts, etc. to us as researchers, to them it is their LIVES. I think it is like sticking one's nose in where it doesn't belong to publish or publicly share that info, even though I do record it in my files. One of my three cases, the "child" came to me because of my research and asked me to find the truth. Once found, he had definite ideas of how it should be recorded. While nowadays it is no big deal, these people weren't raised nowadays and, to them, it can be a big deal. Probably the best rule of thumb and one I try to follow is not to provide any info on any person (secrets or not) not confirmed to be deceased unless it is easily verifiable (i.e. via census or some other widely available resource.) I am often amazed by what I see being posted on some of the genealogy boards, including data about living people... Even contact information, like addresses and phone numbers. I think we get so caught up in the genealogy research, what we can find and what we can prove, that we lose sight of the fact that these are real people who might care what we write about them. Just my two cents. LuAnne -----Original Message----- From: gracie [mailto:g.winters@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:55 AM To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WVLOGAN] Secrets Oh, come on, ya'll, get out of the 1950s. In this day, there are single parents, sperm banks, gay marriages, cloning, etc. Genealogy is about telling the truth and showing proof, geez, just made a rhyme. rofl We all work so hard to make sure we have the right information on everything else. Shoot , just put in the mother and if you know the father , put him in, don't worry about a marriage licence. So much of the time we don't have those for the ones who did marry. So our ancestors weren't perfect, neither are we. Quit tiptoeing around about descretions over 100 years ago. Tis a better subject than the wars in mho. I know, wars are a part of genie too. I just don't like to think about them. I have such a delicate personality. (Now really on the floor laughing) Sorry for being so blunt but I just came in from weedeating(not my favorite job) and I am sweaty, itchy, and the other itchy word. The one with the B. Gracie hoping I don't get banned for this one.

I agree. Jim Burgess -----Original Message----- From: gracie [mailto:g.winters@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:55 AM To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WVLOGAN] Secrets Oh, come on, ya'll, get out of the 1950s. In this day, there are single parents, sperm banks, gay marriages, cloning, etc. Genealogy is about telling the truth and showing proof, geez, just made a rhyme. rofl We all work so hard to make sure we have the right information on everything else. Shoot , just put in the mother and if you know the father , put him in, don't worry about a marriage licence. So much of the time we don't have those for the ones who did marry. So our ancestors weren't perfect, neither are we. Quit tiptoeing around about descretions over 100 years ago. Tis a better subject than the wars in mho. I know, wars are a part of genie too. I just don't like to think about them. I have such a delicate personality. (Now really on the floor laughing) Sorry for being so blunt but I just came in from weedeating(not my favorite job) and I am sweaty, itchy, and the other itchy word. The one with the B. Gracie hoping I don't get banned for this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "suebod" <suebod@tampabay.rr.com> To: <WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:09 AM Subject: [WVLOGAN] Secrets > The elders may want to keep this stuff hidden in the closet but if their > child needed a kidney transplant or a full medical history would save a > grandchild, and these are things I've run into helping other families, bet > grandma would spill the beans as to who's the daddy. > > When you're 65, you don't want money from your 89 year old biological > father, but you would like to know if he and all his family had diabetes, > gout or heart disease. > > Sue > > > At 09:28 PM 6/19/06 -0700, you wrote: > >>>One of my Logan Co. gg grandfathers had a child born to a young lady > >>>prior to 1861 - maybe late 1850s. She was listed as his next of kin on > >>>his military papers. How do you all handle this sort of thing?<< > > > > > >============================== > >Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > >New content added every business day. Learn more: > >http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Cannot believe I posted this. Please forgive me. It was meant to be off line to a cousin. I know these things happen but we've always kept this family secret quiet, for it's not been sorted out in over 60 years. Not much of a big, dark family secret anymore, is it? Sue At 06:38 PM 6/19/06 -0400, you wrote: >Some big, dark family secret. >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hah! Guess you don't have to worry like Rick whether or not you should publish it. ;o) Don't worry....I've done worse by accidentally clicking on Reply All. Carole

Jim I would like to purchase a copy of your book. Please tell me where to send the payment Thanks Sue Dameron Moody -----Original Message----- From: Jim Burgess <jim@promobiz.biz> To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:26:30 -0700 Subject: RE: [WVLOGAN] OT-- Mullins Cousin Reunion Sandi, June 24 is this week end. Would you like to have copies of my book Burgess, Mullins, Browning, Brown and Allied Families I would be happy to send them - Normally I sell them for $20.00 but would sell them for $10.00 just to cover my costs. Wish I could go - but I live in Arizona. Let me know. Jim Burgess -----Original Message----- From: Sandi [mailto:sandmayo@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:22 AM To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [WVLOGAN] OT-- Mullins Cousin Reunion Hello everyone, I know that there are several MULLINS descendants posting to this forum.... A Mullins Cousin Reunion will be held Saturday, June 24, 2006 at Chief Logan Park, at shelter no. 6, from 11:00 am to dusk. These are descendants of Nathaniel Mullins. Genealogy and family tree sharing; live music. Barbara Mullins Kral of Chicago, Ill., is coordinator...she requests that it is Picnic style....and that everyone try to bring enough food and/or drink to share. (Knowing that many will be traveling far, most families living within Logan area, bring lots of food). I, and my husband's family will be there. My mother in law was a Mullins. She remembers so much, and loves to tell her family's history. Everyone invited! Sandi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Hello - Maybe Elmer is the middle name. Viney is short for Luvina I believe. I appreciate your help. Rick > > From: "dkb" <dkb@greenapple.com> > Date: 2006/06/19 Mon PM 09:19:21 EDT > To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WVLOGAN] lookup request > > Rick > I could not find nothing. Could Elmer be a nickname and it seems that Viney > would be a nickname. I found a Scott Collins in Wyoming County but not with > the Smith's for 1880. > > K > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <rcs5@bellsouth.net> > To: <WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:29 AM > Subject: [WVLOGAN] lookup request > > > > If anyone has access to censuses from 1870 and 1880, I would appreciate a > > lookup for Elmer and Viney Smith and household in Logan or Wyoming Cos. A > > Scott Collins may be in the home. My thanks. Rick > > > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > > > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

My family in Virginia has a lot of illegitemacies (spelling). Makes research interesting and provides exciting information for talks. As far as I know my West Virginia direct line families were very straight. However my "blue blood" Virginia families were not so pure. Jim Burgess -----Original Message----- From: Carole Hammond [mailto:carole.hammond@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:28 PM To: WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WVLOGAN] Secrets >>One of my Logan Co. gg grandfathers had a child born to a young lady prior >>to 1861 - maybe late 1850s. She was listed as his next of kin on his >>military papers. How do you all handle this sort of thing?<< Rick, If everyone is dead and everyone knew about it anyway then I put it in. You are right....we all have a lot of them if we go back far enough. With some children I know the fathers and some I don't....like the father of my gr-gr-grandma's last three children. I was astounded when I found that her husband had died three years before my ancestress was born....then she went on to have two more. My genealogy program, RootsMagic, allows me to enter it and gives me an option to keep it private. Carole ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

>>One of my Logan Co. gg grandfathers had a child born to a young lady prior >>to 1861 - maybe late 1850s. She was listed as his next of kin on his >>military papers. How do you all handle this sort of thing?<< Rick, If everyone is dead and everyone knew about it anyway then I put it in. You are right....we all have a lot of them if we go back far enough. With some children I know the fathers and some I don't....like the father of my gr-gr-grandma's last three children. I was astounded when I found that her husband had died three years before my ancestress was born....then she went on to have two more. My genealogy program, RootsMagic, allows me to enter it and gives me an option to keep it private. Carole

Rick I could not find nothing. Could Elmer be a nickname and it seems that Viney would be a nickname. I found a Scott Collins in Wyoming County but not with the Smith's for 1880. K ----- Original Message ----- From: <rcs5@bellsouth.net> To: <WVLOGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: [WVLOGAN] lookup request > If anyone has access to censuses from 1870 and 1880, I would appreciate a > lookup for Elmer and Viney Smith and household in Logan or Wyoming Cos. A > Scott Collins may be in the home. My thanks. Rick > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >