Hi Becci, David and all, Some thoughts concerning your postings from my experiences and studies: Many English-edgeekated clerics of colonial times and later undoubtedly had no clue as to their impact on the history of American surnames, or the resulting good-natured differences (sometimes confrontations?) amongst 'cousins' of one descendant who currently spell their surnames differently, with each claiming 'their' name is the correct spelling. Records left by many ships' captains, census-takers, clerks of various courts (or courts in different locales) for land deeds, wills, estates, jury lists, court proceedings, and by different military clerks and commanding officers for enlistment, pay, discharge records or unit rosters, and by later court clerks for preparing Rev War pension applications (who needed to use the original military clerk's 'official' spelling to prevent procedural problems and possible pension denial), or church clerics' records, and even history book authors are amongst those that contributed to such differences in surname spellings. Beyond this, there is the anglization and Americanism of English spelling and the many clerics who simply 'speld'm the way they thought they heard'm be'n pernunced,' or how they had seen a certain sound-like name spelled by another cleric. This may apply to given names as well: for example, a husband with his two oldest sons is hunting or working in the field when a 'careful' census-taker asks his wife (back at the house) for the ages, first and middle names, if any, of all family members, along with other questions, while the 3-month old baby needs to nurture, three other young'ns are gathered about the census-taker chattering and the others are God only knows where. The request for given names would of course apply only for 1850 or later. I believe it was Andrew Jackson who exclaimed, as best I can recall today, that he didn't trust a man who always spelled a word the same. This helps to explain how many felt about English education of early times. Beyond this, many if not most immigrants in frontier areas were English-illiterate. So...how were such people to finally decide for themselves how their name should be spelled -- and when descendants migrated to different areas, differences undoubtedly resulted from their considering different knowledge sources. My thoughts focus primarily on the 1700's and early 1800's in America. My earliest proved ancestor's surname in 1760 and later was spelled in various records by many variants of McDaniel, McDonald and McDonell. A Rev War military enlistment clerk spelled his name McDaniel which 'stuck' for many descendants. With his Ulster-Scot language and Scots' brogue I am guessing he pronounced his name with a 'lazy' or 'quiet' barely-opened-mouthed 'short a,' like saying ' M'Danl,' rather than with open-mouthed emphasis of 'Don' as in McDonald. At any rate 'McDaniel' was used for his 'official' military record although within a few weeks he was recorded as 'McDonald' in his unit's roster, by his Captain who was a neighbor of the family in Southwestern PA. The names McDaniel and McDonald were subsequently recorded interchangeably in census and court records, but McDaniel was prevalent, I believe, especially when considering the county court-clerk using 'McDaniel' for his Rev War pension application in 1833, in Ohio -- and county history book authors picking up on this 'military name' for their accountings of early times when writing about them during the later 1800's. McDaniel (plus variants) and McDonald were used interchangeably for another generation in my line. A son of the above ancestor moved his family to Southern Indiana in 1836. His wife died six years later with her tombstone clearly stating 'Mcdannel.' But when her husband died in 1864 his stone states McDonald, as do all subsequent ones. I believe literacy and use of more permanent granite tombstones led to more careful name spelling as time passed. But in 1853, in contrast, a court clerk interchangeably used McDaniel and McDonald for the same individual in a single land deed document! (Possibly he did this intentionally to demonstrate the individual was known, or recorded elsewhere, by both names???) Surnames were first used by the French, I believe, in about 1000AD; much later in many other countries, originally recorded in the mother-language of earliest times. Can there therefore be a 'correct' English or American spelling for all names in the US? Does it really matter so long as researchers can decipher who was who, or at least live with what we find as not being purely factual? Neil McDonald PS - In the large settlement of Amish in my area having so many common names, the middle name(s) or initial(s) must be used to obtain a longer name-combination that distinguishes between the many having the same first and last names. At least land deeds are recorded and the US mail gets delivered properly so long as the correct 911 rural address is used for an individual -- I don't know how the rural mail carriers do their job in areas where the old delivery system is still used, with only a rural route number listed as the 'street address.' This situation may be similar to earlier times. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catbite" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [WVHAMPSH-L] Name Transitions > Hi David, > My HARTSOCK name has went through Hertzog, Herzog, Hartsook. My STECKMAN > line has been Stockman when they came over from Germany. My 2nd Great > Grandfather, Espy L. Steckman, also went by his middle name of Levi in the > Washington County census, but when he moved up to Allegany, you see him as > Espy, which is on his tombstone. > > On my SLIDER side, there were so many Joseph's & William's that sometimes > they went by their middle names so as not to confuse people. They should > have just named them something else, huh? :) > Becci > > David Athey wrote: > > > Hi Listers, > > > > I have recently been pondering over my many years of research notes, and > > one thing that struck me early on was how name transitions came about. > > > > With my Athey side the men had the odd habit of switching their first > > and middle names. The first noted for the practice was my great > > grandfather. He used the name Thomas Brant Athey. When I started > > locating the family in censuses, I discovered that his given name was > > David Thomas Athey, after his grandfathers David Ray and Thomas Athey. > > So why Thomas Brant? I knew that his aunt, Mary Athey had married Levi > > Brant, but I couldn't imagine a close relationship, because Thomas Athey > > lived in Hampshire County and Levi and Mary Brant lived in Cumberland, > > Maryland. But later an elderly aunt told me that she remembered that > > Thomas had told her that the Brants had taken him in during the Civil > > War when his father, William N. Athey was away with McNeill's Rangers > > and times were tough. Afterwards, Thomas dropped the David and was > > known as Thomas Brant Athey. Mystery solved! > > > > My grandfather always used the name Harry Athey, but when I found his > > birth record in Mineral County, WV he is named as James H. I asked my > > Uncle Gerald about this and he said that he thought that Harry didn't > > know his birth name was James, but later I found him in the 1910 and > > 1920 census and he lists himself as James H. > > > > My father always used the name Earl David, but his birth certificate > > says David Earl, same as mine. So far, I haven't flipped my name. ;-) > > > > With my German names, transitions can be explained by Americanization: > > > > Wilhelm Heinrich Schneider becomes William Henry Snyder > > Hardten becomes Harden > > Koch becomes Cook > > Burkhardt becomes Burkett > > Muller becomes Miller > > Fuchs becomes Fox > > > > What is the point of this posting? Never accept anything as fact until > > you have sufficient documentation to assure you that it is a fact. > > > > Anybody else have any interesting names transitions?

Very well said!! I know my in my Kifer line, my 3rd G Grandfather, George's tombstone reads GEORGE KEIFFER, and a few years later when his wife died , hers (right beside of his) reads CATHERINE KIFER. Some of the current family's spell their names as Kifer, Kiefer, Keefer. My dad's two elderly cousins, SISTERS, spelled their names different. We always thought that either the children of George & Catherine wanted to keep the cost down on the stone, OR, the ones in charge couldn't spell good. Some of the children were very well versed, others couldn't even read or write. macbd1 wrote: > Hi Becci, David and all, > > Some thoughts concerning your postings from my experiences and studies: > Many English-edgeekated clerics of colonial times and later undoubtedly had > no clue as to their impact on the history of American surnames, or the > resulting good-natured differences (sometimes confrontations?) amongst > 'cousins' of one descendant who currently spell their surnames differently, > with each claiming 'their' name is the correct spelling. Records left by > many ships' captains, census-takers, clerks of various courts (or courts in > different locales) for land deeds, wills, estates, jury lists, court > proceedings, and by different military clerks and commanding officers for > enlistment, pay, discharge records or unit rosters, and by later court > clerks for preparing Rev War pension applications (who needed to use the > original military clerk's 'official' spelling to prevent procedural problems > and possible pension denial), or church clerics' records, and even history > book authors are amongst those that contributed to such differences in > surname spellings. Beyond this, there is the anglization and Americanism of > English spelling and the many clerics who simply 'speld'm the way they > thought they heard'm be'n pernunced,' or how they had seen a certain > sound-like name spelled by another cleric. This may apply to given names as > well: for example, a husband with his two oldest sons is hunting or working > in the field when a 'careful' census-taker asks his wife (back at the house) > for the ages, first and middle names, if any, of all family members, along > with other questions, while the 3-month old baby needs to nurture, three > other young'ns are gathered about the census-taker chattering and the others > are God only knows where. The request for given names would of course apply > only for 1850 or later. > > I believe it was Andrew Jackson who exclaimed, as best I can recall today, > that he didn't trust a man who always spelled a word the same. This helps > to explain how many felt about English education of early times. Beyond > this, many if not most immigrants in frontier areas were English-illiterate. > So...how were such people to finally decide for themselves how their name > should be spelled -- and when descendants migrated to different areas, > differences undoubtedly resulted from their considering different knowledge > sources. My thoughts focus primarily on the 1700's and early 1800's in > America. > > My earliest proved ancestor's surname in 1760 and later was spelled in > various records by many variants of McDaniel, McDonald and McDonell. A Rev > War military enlistment clerk spelled his name McDaniel which 'stuck' for > many descendants. With his Ulster-Scot language and Scots' brogue I am > guessing he pronounced his name with a 'lazy' or 'quiet' > barely-opened-mouthed 'short a,' like saying ' M'Danl,' rather than with > open-mouthed emphasis of 'Don' as in McDonald. At any rate 'McDaniel' was > used for his 'official' military record although within a few weeks he was > recorded as 'McDonald' in his unit's roster, by his Captain who was a > neighbor of the family in Southwestern PA. The names McDaniel and McDonald > were subsequently recorded interchangeably in census and court records, but > McDaniel was prevalent, I believe, especially when considering the county > court-clerk using 'McDaniel' for his Rev War pension application in 1833, in > Ohio -- and county history book authors picking up on this 'military name' > for their accountings of early times when writing about them during the > later 1800's. > > McDaniel (plus variants) and McDonald were used interchangeably for another > generation in my line. A son of the above ancestor moved his family to > Southern Indiana in 1836. His wife died six years later with her tombstone > clearly stating 'Mcdannel.' But when her husband died in 1864 his stone > states McDonald, as do all subsequent ones. I believe literacy and use of > more permanent granite tombstones led to more careful name spelling as time > passed. But in 1853, in contrast, a court clerk interchangeably used > McDaniel and McDonald for the same individual in a single land deed > document! (Possibly he did this intentionally to demonstrate the individual > was known, or recorded elsewhere, by both names???) > > Surnames were first used by the French, I believe, in about 1000AD; much > later in many other countries, originally recorded in the mother-language of > earliest times. Can there therefore be a 'correct' English or American > spelling for all names in the US? Does it really matter so long as > researchers can decipher who was who, or at least live with what we find as > not being purely factual? > > Neil McDonald > PS - In the large settlement of Amish in my area having so many common > names, the middle name(s) or initial(s) must be used to obtain a longer > name-combination that distinguishes between the many having the same first > and last names. At least land deeds are recorded and the US mail gets > delivered properly so long as the correct 911 rural address is used for an > individual -- I don't know how the rural mail carriers do their job in areas > where the old delivery system is still used, with only a rural route number > listed as the 'street address.' This situation may be similar to earlier > times. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catbite" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:54 AM > Subject: Re: [WVHAMPSH-L] Name Transitions > > > Hi David, > > My HARTSOCK name has went through Hertzog, Herzog, Hartsook. My STECKMAN > > line has been Stockman when they came over from Germany. My 2nd Great > > Grandfather, Espy L. Steckman, also went by his middle name of Levi in the > > Washington County census, but when he moved up to Allegany, you see him as > > Espy, which is on his tombstone. > > > > On my SLIDER side, there were so many Joseph's & William's that sometimes > > they went by their middle names so as not to confuse people. They should > > have just named them something else, huh? :) > > Becci > > > > David Athey wrote: > > > > > Hi Listers, > > > > > > I have recently been pondering over my many years of research notes, and > > > one thing that struck me early on was how name transitions came about. > > > > > > With my Athey side the men had the odd habit of switching their first > > > and middle names. The first noted for the practice was my great > > > grandfather. He used the name Thomas Brant Athey. When I started > > > locating the family in censuses, I discovered that his given name was > > > David Thomas Athey, after his grandfathers David Ray and Thomas Athey. > > > So why Thomas Brant? I knew that his aunt, Mary Athey had married Levi > > > Brant, but I couldn't imagine a close relationship, because Thomas Athey > > > lived in Hampshire County and Levi and Mary Brant lived in Cumberland, > > > Maryland. But later an elderly aunt told me that she remembered that > > > Thomas had told her that the Brants had taken him in during the Civil > > > War when his father, William N. Athey was away with McNeill's Rangers > > > and times were tough. Afterwards, Thomas dropped the David and was > > > known as Thomas Brant Athey. Mystery solved! > > > > > > My grandfather always used the name Harry Athey, but when I found his > > > birth record in Mineral County, WV he is named as James H. I asked my > > > Uncle Gerald about this and he said that he thought that Harry didn't > > > know his birth name was James, but later I found him in the 1910 and > > > 1920 census and he lists himself as James H. > > > > > > My father always used the name Earl David, but his birth certificate > > > says David Earl, same as mine. So far, I haven't flipped my name. ;-) > > > > > > With my German names, transitions can be explained by Americanization: > > > > > > Wilhelm Heinrich Schneider becomes William Henry Snyder > > > Hardten becomes Harden > > > Koch becomes Cook > > > Burkhardt becomes Burkett > > > Muller becomes Miller > > > Fuchs becomes Fox > > > > > > What is the point of this posting? Never accept anything as fact until > > > you have sufficient documentation to assure you that it is a fact. > > > > > > Anybody else have any interesting names transitions?