This message came through on another list and the card was so wonderful I thought I'd share it with you. Adrianne - -------------------------------------- I found an old hand made card that belonged to my GG Aunt. She was in her mid 20's when she received it. I thought you might want to take a peek at it since it was handmade in 1902. It shows the style of art, language, and penmanship of its era. The original size is 3' x 5" and is scanned rather large to view the writing. 90kb Here is the link: http://members.tripod.com/marieram/card.jpg Raynelle in Texas [email protected] Surnames ANDERSON, REMLEY, WILLIAMS, GOLDSBOROUGH ______________________________

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful responses. This is a 'blanket' reply. I've received an *overwhelming* number of responses (well over 250, mostly in private email), and unfortunately can't reply individually. The input has been most enlightening and thought-provoking. I want to express a special thank you to the many who returned quite scholarly and lengthy replies with references, citations, etc. I most certainly appreciate their time and effort in doing so. PLEASE send me *no more personal email* on this subject!! If you want to continue posting to the various lists, and it's OK with the various List-Masters, fine; but I've been absolutely swamped. In closing, one final note - As I learned in an Anthropology class a few millenia ago (but chose *not* to state in my original message): There is one vast gene pool in the world; we are all various combinations thereof. From a strictly scientific perspective, there is only one race - the HUMAN RACE!!! Peace and blessings to all, Jon

Could anyone tell me whether there's a book listing cemeteries in the Morgantown area? I'm looking for a John Allen, who is buried next to his mother who would be listed as a Frum. She remarried. He would have been born around the 1700's. Would appreciate any assistance.

It usually depends on the attitude of the speaker whether such descriptions are also derogatory. Think about the "Beverly Hillbillies." Hillbilly is this case could certainly have been considered derogatory, but nobody got upset about it. I am a Heinz 57 varieties! Have a good day! Hillbilly missionary in PNG, David

In a message dated 99-07-07 09:51:09 EDT, you write: > Could anyone tell me whether there's a book listing cemeteries in the > Morgantown area? I'm looking for a John Allen, who is buried next to his > mother who would be listed as a Frum. She remarried. He would have been > born around the 1700's. Try the Monongalia County US Genweb archives at http://www.rootsweb.com/usgenweb/wv/monongal.htm They have listings for a few cemeteries, including an "Old Frum Cemetery", as well as a search function that lets you search the archives for names of interest. Mary Ann Wamsley

[email protected] wrote: > > In a message dated 7/6/99 1:07:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] > writes: > << So the Spanish rood comes from Arabic, not Latin. >> > > Merriam Collegiate Dictionary: Mu*lat*to (noun)....plural (-toes or tos) > Spanish mulato from mule; from Latin mulus. First appeared in 1593. > 1) The 1st generation of a black person and a white person; > 2) A person of mixed black and white ancestry. > > Certainly a discussion of ancestry is *on topic* for Lists devoted to > genealogy. > > However, a List devoted to genealogy is not the proper place to discuss the > topic *as raised* in the manner that <<[email protected] (Jon Grimes)>> has > introduced it ... ie to settle a dispute filled with sociological, political > and historical perspectives and persuasions. > > As Russ suggested, there are better venues for that type of discussion. > JMO, folks. 8-) > > Gloria > [email protected] > > ==== WVA Mailing List ==== > -snip--- > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, computer questions, political announcements, current events, personal messages,flames, religious messages etc. (in other words - Spam) is NOT ALLOWED and > will be grounds for removal and exclusion from this mailing list. Spam crashes our servers and we have to take a stand. > ---snip--- God knows no colors, his love is for all of us. Trust in his name and no one can hurt you. Margie Blankenship Salazar

At 09:55 AM 7/6/99 -0400, [email protected] wrote: >It was a description, I don't think this was derogatory, just a sign of the >times, today you are not black, or colored, or Negro, or mulatto, you are >African American. Those folks were Mulatto, the French planters around New >Orleans used the terms quadroon, and octoroon. As to it being used by the >"white" race, I think everyone had a word for people of other races as well >as themselves, white, black, red, yellow. I agree with Sandra. Also, mulattoes had higher status than blacks. Negro is a later term, as is "colored". Louisiana law has a history of being rather unique. As late as the 1970s, people with *any* known black ancestry who were born in Louisiana were listed as black on their birth certificates: this was eliminated following a legal case brought by a Louisiana woman (profiled on 60 Minutes) who was *very* upset that she was listed as black, though she had only 1/64 black ancestry. Elizabeth Whitaker

As I am new to all this, what does it mean when a message has the word "snip" and then a warning message and then the word "snip" again? Sorry if I am being redundant to those of you who already know the answer but I am really curious. Thanks. Sharon

heck if I know either

In a message dated 7/6/99 6:50:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > I believe the term "mulatto" was descriptive and derogatory at the > same time. It was used by the white race to describe anyone who was not > WHITE. It was used by census takers in some areas to describe the American > Indian. The southern planters even went to far as to create the term > octoroon > to describe someone who was at least 1/8 African. These terms were used in a > > derogatory way to keep any person of color in their place. It was a description, I don't think this was derogatory, just a sign of the times, today you are not black, or colored, or Negro, or mulatto, you are African American. Those folks were Mulatto, the French planters around New Orleans used the terms quadroon, and octoroon. As to it being used by the "white" race, I think everyone had a word for people of other races as well as themselves, white, black, red, yellow.

In a message dated 7/6/99 1:07:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Now, having said that, a West Virginia, or any other genealogy list is not > the place for a discussion of this sort, in my way of thinking. try the Meleungeon list [sp?] they talk about race all the time, ~S

My Grandfather, Rev. Lester Clyde Senter, had a radio broadcast in the 40's over station WBRW in Welch, West Virginia called The Gospel Call. Does anyone have information on him or the broadcast? Patricia Senter Bealmear York, PA

Dear Jon: I believe the term "mulatto" was descriptive and derogatory at the same time. It was used by the white race to describe anyone who was not WHITE. It was used by census takers in some areas to describe the American Indian. The southern planters even went to far as to create the term octoroon to describe someone who was at least 1/8 African. These terms were used in a derogatory way to keep any person of color in their place. Regardless of the actual meaning, it was derogatory in nature. I am white and after extensive reading about the mentality of the planters of the 1800s these are the conclusions I have arrived at. Joyce

The American Heritage Dictionary says this: mu·lat·to ( m<-l²t"½, -lä "t½, my <-) n. pl. mu·lat·tos or mu·lat·toes 1. A person having one white and one Black parent. 2. A person of mixed white and Black ancestry. [Spanish from Arabic muwallad person of mixed race from walada to engender, give birth] So the Spanish rood comes from Arabic, not Latin. Now, having said that, a West Virginia, or any other genealogy list is not the place for a discussion of this sort, in my way of thinking. I suggest you take it where obsessive compulsives all gather and have a good time. Russ Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Grimes <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 11:52 PM Subject: [WVA-L] The term 'mulatto' > I posted the query below on several genealogical mailing lists several days > ago, but neglected to post it on these lists. I am doing so now. In > retrospect, I might have worded the query more precisely to reflect my true > intent, but I will not change the wording and am posting it here exactly as > in the original posting on the other boards. > > I do this because the query has elicited a surprising number of > thought-provoking responses. > > For those of you who have seen the message and responses on other boards, > please forgive the duplicity. I'm assuming a new 'audience' for each list, > though I know that many of you (like myself) subscribe to more than one of > the lists. > > Those of you who want to call me a few nasty names may feel free to do so, > and then move on. :-) > > Thanks. > > > > Jon G. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > > Are any of you wise souls aware of any pejorative/derogatory connotation in > the usage of the terms mulatto (mulato) and mulatta (mulata) in the U.S or > anywhere in the Americas (North, Central, and South America)? > > The term originates in the Spanish and Portuguese (meaning 'of mixed > breed'), derived from mulo (mule), which derives from the Latin mulus. For > those that don't know, a mule is the offspring of a donkey and a horse, > i.e. a mixed breed. I feel that the association with the mule is merely > representative of the aspect of mixed-breeding, rather than an association > with the jackass/mule/donkey kind of thinking - in other words similar to a > 'mixed-breed' dog. > > My thinking is that the usage of the word has always been 'descriptive', > rather than pejorative, such as the usage of the term 'coloured' under > apartheid in South Africa, and the term 'colored' as was used here in the > States until recent decades. Descriptive, implying the mixture; there are > many other terms that we all could think of that are unquestionably > derogatory. > > I'm in a discussion with a person who insists that the term is derogatory > in origin and associates the term with the somewhat simplistic thinking > (from *my untrained perspective*) of 'the white slave masters raping our > grandmothers', when indeed the mixtures in the Americas, to my > understanding, evolved from not only that, but from many other sets of > circumstances, e.g. black slaves mating with white indentured servants, and > many situations too numerous to mention here. I read on one of these > genealogical forums in the last few weeks or so that the latter was indeed > more common than the former (I can't remember exactly where I read it, nor > the 'credentials' of the person making the statement, but I seem to recall > that it was a 'scholar' in this area). > > I *am not* a scholar in this area. I'd welcome input from all of you, most > especially from those of you in academia in this area or with > training/backgrounds in these issues. > > I may indeed be wrong. I do realize there are 'mixed camps' and > disagreement in areas such as this, but I'm more interested in the > scholarly/'real' aspects as opposed to the emotionally charged such as 'the > white slave master taking advantage of our grandmothers'. I'm interested in > scholarship and truth, and not in emotion. > > Thanks in advance to all of you for all replies. > > > Jon G. > > > Sorry about my excessive wordiness - it's an obsessive/compulsive thing!! > > > > ==== WVA Mailing List ==== > To keep free access to genealogical data, consider sending a donation to RootsWeb at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > Need Help with your WVA lines? Check out the WVAGENWEB Project: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvgenweb

I posted the query below on several genealogical mailing lists several days ago, but neglected to post it on these lists. I am doing so now. In retrospect, I might have worded the query more precisely to reflect my true intent, but I will not change the wording and am posting it here exactly as in the original posting on the other boards. I do this because the query has elicited a surprising number of thought-provoking responses. For those of you who have seen the message and responses on other boards, please forgive the duplicity. I'm assuming a new 'audience' for each list, though I know that many of you (like myself) subscribe to more than one of the lists. Those of you who want to call me a few nasty names may feel free to do so, and then move on. :-) Thanks. Jon G. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are any of you wise souls aware of any pejorative/derogatory connotation in the usage of the terms mulatto (mulato) and mulatta (mulata) in the U.S or anywhere in the Americas (North, Central, and South America)? The term originates in the Spanish and Portuguese (meaning 'of mixed breed'), derived from mulo (mule), which derives from the Latin mulus. For those that don't know, a mule is the offspring of a donkey and a horse, i.e. a mixed breed. I feel that the association with the mule is merely representative of the aspect of mixed-breeding, rather than an association with the jackass/mule/donkey kind of thinking - in other words similar to a 'mixed-breed' dog. My thinking is that the usage of the word has always been 'descriptive', rather than pejorative, such as the usage of the term 'coloured' under apartheid in South Africa, and the term 'colored' as was used here in the States until recent decades. Descriptive, implying the mixture; there are many other terms that we all could think of that are unquestionably derogatory. I'm in a discussion with a person who insists that the term is derogatory in origin and associates the term with the somewhat simplistic thinking (from *my untrained perspective*) of 'the white slave masters raping our grandmothers', when indeed the mixtures in the Americas, to my understanding, evolved from not only that, but from many other sets of circumstances, e.g. black slaves mating with white indentured servants, and many situations too numerous to mention here. I read on one of these genealogical forums in the last few weeks or so that the latter was indeed more common than the former (I can't remember exactly where I read it, nor the 'credentials' of the person making the statement, but I seem to recall that it was a 'scholar' in this area). I *am not* a scholar in this area. I'd welcome input from all of you, most especially from those of you in academia in this area or with training/backgrounds in these issues. I may indeed be wrong. I do realize there are 'mixed camps' and disagreement in areas such as this, but I'm more interested in the scholarly/'real' aspects as opposed to the emotionally charged such as 'the white slave master taking advantage of our grandmothers'. I'm interested in scholarship and truth, and not in emotion. Thanks in advance to all of you for all replies. Jon G. Sorry about my excessive wordiness - it's an obsessive/compulsive thing!!

The person sending the information has done a bit of editing....cutting out some of the first part of the message and then cutting out some of the end of the message...Marsha Snicks wrote: > > As I am new to all this, what does it mean when a message has the word > "snip" and then a warning message and then the word "snip" again? Sorry if I > am being redundant to those of you who already know the answer but I am > really curious. Thanks. > Sharon > > ==== WVA Mailing List ==== > To keep free access to genealogical data, consider sending a donation to RootsWeb at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html > -snip--- > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, computer questions, political announcements, current events, personal messages,flames, religious messages etc. (in other words - Spam) is NOT ALLOWED and > will be grounds for removal and exclusion from this mailing list. Spam crashes our servers and we have to take a stand. > ---snip---

At 07:59 AM 7/5/99 EDT, you wrote: >I would love to have input on this one......I have an ancestor who lived his >entire life in Tyler County (except for his stint and subsequent death in the >Civil War).....my question is........If he was born in 1831, should I be >looking in Monongalia (concerning his parentage) rather than Tyler County >records? (I am going to Tyler in two weeks ..) > >Thanks ! Nancy Pratt > > >==== WVA Mailing List ==== >To keep free access to genealogical data, consider sending a donation to RootsWeb at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html >-snip--- >NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, computer questions, political announcements, current events, personal messages,flames, religious messages etc. (in other words - Spam) is NOT ALLOWED and >will be grounds for removal and exclusion from this mailing list. Spam crashes our servers and we have to take a stand. >---snip--- > > Nancy, Since Tyler County was founded in 1814, you might be able to find your ancestor as a nine-year old on an 1840 Tyler Co. census. Our PA 1840 census is indexed; I suppose the WV census is also. Irene

In a message dated 7/6/99 1:07:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << So the Spanish rood comes from Arabic, not Latin. >> Merriam Collegiate Dictionary: Mu*lat*to (noun)....plural (-toes or tos) Spanish mulato from mule; from Latin mulus. First appeared in 1593. 1) The 1st generation of a black person and a white person; 2) A person of mixed black and white ancestry. Certainly a discussion of ancestry is *on topic* for Lists devoted to genealogy. However, a List devoted to genealogy is not the proper place to discuss the topic *as raised* in the manner that <<[email protected] (Jon Grimes)>> has introduced it ... ie to settle a dispute filled with sociological, political and historical perspectives and persuasions. As Russ suggested, there are better venues for that type of discussion. JMO, folks. 8-) Gloria [email protected]

Hi everyone, I am looking for any information about the Wilfong family: Charles Wilfong +Francis Reed Gladis R. Wilfong born June 22,1919; Died unknown +Thomas Francis Nee born Oct. 31, 1911 Died June 29, 1990. Gladis was living in WVa (Fairmont?) when she died. Thanks, Ralph Lane Gaithersburg, Md. [email protected]

Nancy....Since Tyler was formed in 1856 from Ohio Co., his birth records should be recorded in Ohio Co. if they have birth records back that far. I've packed all my books in preparation for a move to WV so I can't tell you the earliest that Ohio Co. has birth records. -- Larry Heffner Kingwood, Texas