still think we should find us a vacant ship ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Taylor" <johnataylor@btinternet.com> To: <WORLDWAR2-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: RE: [WORLD WAR II] citations and references > This seems to be turning into a World War III List!!! > > Should we stop it now, but learn something from these exchanges? > > John > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: .... valentine53179 [mailto:valentine53179@gmail.com] > -> Sent: 15 January 2006 23:23 > -> To: WORLDWAR2-L@rootsweb.com > -> Subject: [WORLD WAR II] citations and references > -> > -> > -> as with all on the list... > -> you are entitled to your opinion.. > -> > -> you apparently did not read the earlier posts.. > -> nor the post that clearly said that suchNsuchwas NOT on SUCHnSUCH data > -> base when IN FACT it was.. > -> now > -> one can PAY for whatever services you might wish to subscribe to > -> or > -> one can LEARN to do research on their own... > -> and > -> be successful at it.. > -> > -> and one can learn about urls here on this list and learn about what is > -> and is not avaialble to them via conversations and contributions.. > -> FREE contributions by the list members who have done this for a long > -> time... > -> > -> violated a researchers code of ethics? > -> or not followed proper procedures? > -> > -> well gee, that seems does fit snowfrog to a T.... > -> stating information without a miniscule bit of source...... > -> and it was so simple a thing to do... > -> as clearly it was expressed on a url provided by yet another lister at > -> wwII memorial and ambc.... > -> that was all it took... > -> another simple copy and paste.... > -> and yet > -> it was not given and on top of it FOUGHT AGAINST giving the info!. > -> > -> > -> it should be noted that not all people TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES to do > -> more research and too > -> the posts on this list are in the archives for a very long time.... > -> both with accuracy and INaccuracy and many naked in their > -> presentation.... > -> > -> there are many new people on this list... > -> many who have no idea that there are many free and available > -> items on the net... > -> and too > -> many of these items are not found with search engines because of the > -> heirarchy that they reside in on their web pages... > -> > -> not to mention that some items are seen by PEOPLE in the form of > -> graphics and not searchable by spiderbots and such.... > -> all of this evidenced with the info that wa posted to the list > -> regarding the DElong exercise... > -> > -> giving people the SOURCES for the information that is being PRESENTED > -> is NOT HANDING anything to a researcher... it is making the > -> information complete.. > -> it is not even above and beyond the call of duty.. it is standard > -> practice... giving CREDIT where credit is due... else it is > -> plagarism.... ! a nice word for THEFT! > -> > -> i know, i know snowfrog felt the need to play the game and drop years > -> of experience... he is a young one to my work for over 40 years... > -> longer that just about anyone on this list... i have done this work > -> both with and without computers... and i might add FOR FREE....both on > -> and off lists... > -> > -> you will notice too that i did not GIVE an answer to the > -> original poster... > -> I gave hime information to go and FIND data for himself... > -> all of which were sites that i checked out... > -> you know the old concept of eating fish or knowing how to fish > -> for fish, right? > -> > -> > -> for anyone to not follow basic and accepted practices of citation is > -> absurd... for anyone to support anyone else who does not follow > -> accepted practices is just as absurd.... > -> > -> it seems that this recent writer confuses links - where one can look > -> for information - is something that needs to be cited (not!) .... the > -> point has been missed... when specific information such as was > -> presented regarding delong is presented as a stand alone statement > -> without citation is WRONG... perhaps the url where the name could have > -> been found would have been more appropriate and then snowfrog would on > -> ly have had to do one copyPaste! > -> > -> too if the url had been given, just how many people on the list might > -> have gone there and checked for their own family names... > -> I wonder how many DID go to the link where delong and his mother were > -> presented as a graphic? > -> How many figured out how to get to their alphabetic letter or looked > -> at the title page or the index and found the information about POWs? > -> > -> the list is for learning... > -> on several occasions in these last two days > -> i sent in posts asking for the source/REsource to be noted... > -> sure, the original submitted took offense... > -> because they failed at the basics in documentation... > -> it is not library science at stake... > -> it is a FULLY documented chart n family history that IS at stake.. > -> experienced researchs ALL know that citation and documentation > -> are requied... > -> > -> if this recent writer had read the material from the beginning of the > -> thread - whcih can be done when the Threaded Archives is again > -> uptodate (rootsweb is having problems with archiver), i think they > -> will find that more than just a commentary about citation was > -> presented to the list.... > -> > -> i presume > -> that everyone on the list knows how to get to the threaded archives... > -> > -> > -> if you dont, then click on this address and ask > valentine53179@gmail.com > -> > -> > -> > -> > -> > -> > -> On 1/15/06, s k <jackflack3@yahoo.com> wrote: > -> > Yet everyone should note that the original poster Bill > -> > White who asked about Delong is probably afraid to > -> > check back in because helpful posters have violated a > -> > researches code of ethics amd have not followed proper > -> > procedures? > -> > > -> > In most cases this list and others like it are about a > -> > family member looking for information on relatives who > -> > have served in the armed forces. It's about helping > -> > someone out and not getting lectured on library > -> > science. Most posters have no idea where to start and > -> > any historical data is appreciated. > -> > > -> > Snowfrog has done a great service here for a long > -> > time. When I was looking for info on a great uncle > -> > killed on Peleliu I did not automatically assume that > -> > the information that I received from bulletin board / > -> > lists respondents was correct. I took it upon myself > -> > to research and to follow up with other sources of > -> > information. > -> > > -> > If you want to use the resources of the internet to > -> > look for a military history of a relative then fine. > -> > If you want someone to do all the work for you with > -> > references and citations then you can pay for it. > -> > > -> > Other sites that are very helpful with no lecturing > -> > just good helpful information. > -> > > -> > http://members.aol.com/dadswar/ > -> > > -> > http://genforum.genealogy.com/wwii/ > -> > > -> > http://ww2.vet.org/default.asp > -> > > -> > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=an&p=topics.Military.wwii > -> > > -> > > -> > > -> > > -> > > -> > > -> > > -> > --- ".... valentine53179" <valentine53179@hotmail.com> > -> > wrote: > -> > > -> > > you can say that you are giving information that is > -> > > based on your military experience..... > -> > > rather, it is information that you gleaned from > -> > > SOMEWHERE... > -> > > you failed to cite sources... and I made note of > -> > > it... > -> > > you have done a disservice to the list and the > -> > > person asking for the query and now are trying to > -> > > qualify it...... > -> > > with all of your 20 years of research experience, > -> > > you, of all people, should know better..... > -> > > > -> > > ----- Original Message ----- > -> > > From: > -> > > Snowfrog1961@aol.com<mailto:Snowfrog1961@aol.com> > -> > > To: > -> > > > -> > WORLDWAR2-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:WORLDWAR2-L@rootsweb.com> > -> > > > -> > > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 7:45 PM > -> > > Subject: Re: [WORLD WAR II] Re: K Company 3rd > -> > > Battalion 5th Marine Regiment 1st Marine... > -> > > > -> > > > -> > > If the person asking the question wishes to know > -> > > my sources, then I am happy > -> > > to provide them based on my 20 years of military > -> > > research experience > -> > > However, recently it seems that you are demanding > -> > > sources in regards to questions > -> > > neither asked by you or answers directed to you. > -> > > I find your comments to be > -> > > entirely off topic and unnecessary. Back to the > -> > > questions, for which this > -> > > forum exists. Moderator attention please! > -> > > > -> > -> > -> ==== WORLDWAR2 Mailing List ==== > -> We are an international list! Please, always tell the list what > -> country your ancestor is from. This helps all of us, especially > -> you! If you give dates please help us understand the date you > -> are referring to. For example: 4 Nov 1944 or Nov 4, 1944. > -> > -> ============================== > -> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > -> marriage announcements and more. 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