Hi to all Pem. Listers, I'll be out of town for a couple of days and away from my computer. I am delighted wih the assistance I have been receiving and the interest that Isaac PHILLIPS/PHILLIPPS/PHILIPPS has received and is receiving. I intend to follow up on leads supplied although there could be difficulties with payment of fees for some of the documents when there is no way to convert dollars to pounds. From this end I still have problems linking up Isaac PHILLIPS (father) with James PHILLIPS (son). James' died in Wilkes-Barre, PA in Aug 1907. His Death Certificate does not supply his dob. It gives his age as 66 which means he was born in 1841. Cemetery records also show a birth year as 1841. James' Marriage Certificate, which identifies James' father as Isaac, gives his age at the time of his marriage to Sarah Davies on 24 July 1858, as 21 which would fix his birth year as 1837 as does the 1861 Census 4088 from SOUTH NEATH HIGHER. R.G. 9/4088 E.D. 3B. Piece: 4088 Folio: 050 Schedule:171. Maybe the discrepancies in the year of birth aren't serious, but they are problematical. Other evidence, e.g., the Census of 1861 which enumerates James and his wife and two of their three children including my great grandfather, John Phillips and his sister Harriet, are compelling. I seem to have run on here. I hope I haven't confused matters more than they are but now you know where I'm coming from and what I'm looking for. Maybe there is more to look for or maybe the listing of 1841 Jeffreyston Folio 13 page 19 is the only census listing that has an Isaac Phillips and a James Phillips under the same roof and that part of my search is over. Comments or questions from interested parties are welcome. Talk to you in a few days. -- Wayne E. Phillips Chester, VA 23836 [email protected] > Content-Type: text/plain > > WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 327 > > Today's Topics: > #1 RE: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James ["kce" <[email protected]>] > #2 [WLS-PEM] More re Isaac and James [Pat Powell <[email protected]] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-D, send a message to > > [email protected] > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > To contact the WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-D list administrator, send mail to > [email protected] > ______________________________ > X-Message: #1 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:01:16 -0000 > From: "kce" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi Pat, > > I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very > possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the > moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- > Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah > Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children > by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and > John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah > died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. > > Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew > "James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only > been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in > 1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between > Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the > youngest in the household. > > The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new > wife moved to Caldy Island? > Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living > with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family > and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I > suppose anything is possible. > Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of > Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems > very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the > Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter > Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a > little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. > This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of > Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and > obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. > > Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while > > Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered > > Regards > Kevin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > > > Hello Kevin > > I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in > 1851. > Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? > Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? > > Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James > in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > > In message <[email protected]>, kce > <[email protected]> writes > >Hi all, > >If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - > there > >is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who > >later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as > >grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) > >Any info appreciated. > >Regards > >Kevin > > > -- > Pat Powell > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > ______________________________ > X-Message: #2 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:26:27 +0000 > From: Pat Powell <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: [WLS-PEM] More re Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > > Hi Kevin > > Thanks for the extra information. > > I see from the FreeBMD there is a death of an Isaac Phillips registered > in Narberth in the second quarter of 1843 ref 26/441 > > Also there on the wills list there is > > PHILIPPS Isaac Jeffreston, Pembs 177 1843 > > > Let us know if you follow this up - or Wayne - if you do. > > Cheers > > Pat > > > In message <[email protected]>, kce > <[email protected]> writes > >Hi Pat, > > > >I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very > >possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the > >moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- > >Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah > >Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children > >by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and > >John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah > >died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. > > > >Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew > >"James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only > >been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in > >1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between > >Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the > >youngest in the household. > > > >The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new > >wife moved to Caldy Island? > >Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living > >with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family > >and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I > >suppose anything is possible. > >Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of > >Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems > >very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the > >Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter > >Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a > >little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. > >This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of > >Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and > >obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. > > > >Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while > > > >Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered > > > >Regards > >Kevin > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] > >Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > > > > > >Hello Kevin > > > >I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in > >1851. > >Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? > >Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? > > > >Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James > >in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) > > > >Cheers > > > >Pat > > > > > > > > > >In message <[email protected]>, kce > ><[email protected]> writes > >>Hi all, > >>If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - > >there > >>is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who > >>later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as > >>grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) > >>Any info appreciated. > >>Regards > >>Kevin > >> > >-- > >Pat Powell > > > > > >==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > >South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > > > > -- > Pat Powell