Hi Pat, I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew "James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in 1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the youngest in the household. The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new wife moved to Caldy Island? Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I suppose anything is possible. Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered Regards Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 Hello Kevin I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in 1851. Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, kce <[email protected]> writes >Hi all, >If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - there >is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who >later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as >grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) >Any info appreciated. >Regards >Kevin > -- Pat Powell ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html

Hi Kevin Thanks for the extra information. I see from the FreeBMD there is a death of an Isaac Phillips registered in Narberth in the second quarter of 1843 ref 26/441 Also there on the wills list there is PHILIPPS Isaac Jeffreston, Pembs 177 1843 Let us know if you follow this up - or Wayne - if you do. Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, kce <[email protected]> writes >Hi Pat, > >I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very >possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the >moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- >Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah >Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children >by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and >John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah >died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. > >Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew >"James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only >been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in >1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between >Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the >youngest in the household. > >The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new >wife moved to Caldy Island? >Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living >with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family >and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I >suppose anything is possible. >Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of >Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems >very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the >Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter >Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a >little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. >This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of >Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and >obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. > >Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while > >Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered > >Regards >Kevin > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > > >Hello Kevin > >I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in >1851. >Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? >Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? > >Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James >in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) > >Cheers > >Pat > > > > >In message <[email protected]>, kce ><[email protected]> writes >>Hi all, >>If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - >there >>is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who >>later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as >>grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) >>Any info appreciated. >>Regards >>Kevin >> >-- >Pat Powell > > >==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== >South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > -- Pat Powell

Sorry to butt in on this correspondence, but just spotted the COLE which Sarah was by birth. My ggg-grandmother was born Hannah Cole, who married Benjamin MORGAN in 1814 in Reynalton and then settled in Begelly and Wooden, St Issells. Through guesswork, Hannah's parents may be John Cole and Elizabeth Thomas who were married in 1794 in Begelly, but I have yet to prove that. Just wondering whether there could be any link between our COLEs? Cate Date sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:01:16 -0000 From: "kce" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > Hi Pat, > > I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very > possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the > moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- > Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah > Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children > by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and > John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah > died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. > > Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew > "James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only > been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in > 1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between > Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the > youngest in the household. > > The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new > wife moved to Caldy Island? > Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living > with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family > and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I > suppose anything is possible. > Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of > Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems > very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the > Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter > Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a > little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. > This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of > Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and > obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. > > Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while > > Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered > > Regards > Kevin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 > To: WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L[email protected] > Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > > > Hello Kevin > > I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in > 1851. > Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? > Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? > > Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James > in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > > In message <[email protected]>, kce > <[email protected]> writes > >Hi all, > >If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - > there > >is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who > >later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as > >grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) > >Any info appreciated. > >Regards > >Kevin > > > -- > Pat Powell > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > > ______________________________

Hi Cate, Haven't explored the Cole family, but as always it is a possibilty I've been on the backburner for a while but I hope to get started again this weekend so I'll keep you informed of any progress. Regards Kevin -----Original Message----- From: cate [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 December 2003 12:35 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 Sorry to butt in on this correspondence, but just spotted the COLE which Sarah was by birth. My ggg-grandmother was born Hannah Cole, who married Benjamin MORGAN in 1814 in Reynalton and then settled in Begelly and Wooden, St Issells. Through guesswork, Hannah's parents may be John Cole and Elizabeth Thomas who were married in 1794 in Begelly, but I have yet to prove that. Just wondering whether there could be any link between our COLEs? Cate Date sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:01:16 -0000 From: "kce" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > Hi Pat, > > I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very > possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the > moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- > Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah > Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children > by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and > John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah > died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. > > Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew > "James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only > been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in > 1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between > Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the > youngest in the household. > > The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new > wife moved to Caldy Island? > Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living > with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family > and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I > suppose anything is possible. > Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of > Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems > very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the > Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter > Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a > little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. > This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of > Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and > obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. > > Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while > > Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered > > Regards > Kevin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > > > Hello Kevin > > I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in > 1851. > Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? > Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? > > Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James > in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > > In message <[email protected]>, kce > <[email protected]> writes > >Hi all, > >If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - > there > >is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who > >later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as > >grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) > >Any info appreciated. > >Regards > >Kevin > > > -- > Pat Powell > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > > ______________________________ ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== Rootsweb list archives[threaded] http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WLSPembrokeshire-L/