Hi Bettye, thanks again for coming up with sound advice and other alternatives it did cross my mind that Sophia's first born might be named after her husbands father and her second son after her father. I am looking over the Pembrokeshire Marriages 1813 -1837 and I must admit I am slightly blinkered I seem to look for the obvious instead of looking at the parishes of the bride, I have this gut feeling that that Sophia's first born David is named after her father, brother, I have Sophia living at a dwelling called Trellys y Cnwc in the 1881 Census and I also found a David Morgans age 31 living at a dwelling called Trellys they are both in the same Census place in fact I think it might be the next dwelling . My other gut feeling is that Sophia husband Thomas Howell/s father was also called Thomas I found this Thomas Howell ( Mathry ) married 11 -12 -1821 Elizebeth Griffith from LLanreheithan Thomas Howell/s collier married 3 - 5 -1823 Ann Griffith from Jefferson Thomas Howell ( Granston ) married 29 -11 - 1832 Jane Griffith from Whitchurch I think these two are brothers William Howell ( Mariner from Granston ) married 6 -8 -1833 Sarah Jenkins from LLanwanda well Bettye I have totaly confused myself now I am off for a cup of tea , I hope I have not blown your mind, all for now Marlena great site great people > > If your Sophia MORGANS is the one born at Ambleston to William (born about > 1814) and Ann Morgans, then it is possible that William is a child born to > Thomas MORGAN of Ambleston and Martha Price who married at Mathry on > 18/02/1813. > > Another List member might be kind enough to look up the 1841 or 1851 census > information for the families of David Howells and the above Thomas Morgan/s > to prove or disprove my theories. It is quite likely, however, that William > > > > > From: marlena payne > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Sophia MORGAN > > > > > > Hi Bill, thank you so much for replying to my email. I have taken on > board your advice and you are right Bill I will have to send off for the > certificates. I have been putting off doing so incase of disappointment and > also cost but at least I can eliminate as I go along instead of assuming and > I seem to be doing quite a bit of that (infant years in family research). I > did come across another Sophia Morgan a gentleman in the Dyfed F.H.S. did a > look up for me and came up with this > > > > HO107/2479, Haycastle, folio 16, page 1, schedule 3. 1851 Census > > > > Thomas Morgan age 31 born Haycastle > > Mary Morgan age 26 born Llandeloy > > Martha Morgan age 6 born Whitechurch [possibly Whitechurch] > > Sophia Morgan age 3 born Brawdy ( was living in Haycastle but > born in Brawdy ) > > Ann Morgan age 1 born Brawdy > > > > My Assumption. 1851 Census > > > > SCH PARISH FORNAME SURNAME AGE CTY POF BIRTH FOL PG > > > > 31 SDW WILLIAM MORGANS 37 PEM AMBLESTON 249 9 > > 31 SDW ANN MORGANS 48 PEM HAYCASTLE 249 > 9 > > 31 SDW SARAH MORGANS 11 PEM AMBLESTON 249 > 9 > > 31 SDW MARY MORGANS 8 PEM AMBLESTON 249 > 9 > > 31 SDW SOPHIA MORGANS 6 PEM AMBLESTON 249 > 9 > > > > AT the moment Bill I have only a Form of Requisition for a Certificate of > Birth for my Grandfather. > > > > My Grandfather James Morgan Howell/s date of birth 8 -1 1885 birth > place St Nicholas Fishguard ( meildy farm house the next farm was Treylls y > Cnwc ) > > Father's name Thomas Howells coal miner /horse keeper . Mother name > Sophia Morgans. > > > > so I think I must send off for the following and take a chance ? . > > > > Birth Certificate of Sophia Morgan born March 1845 District > Haverfordwest Vol 26 Page 6-5-8. > > Birth Certificate of Thomas Howell born Sep 1837 District > Pembrokeshire Vol 26 Page 387 > > Birth Certificate of David Howell/s born ? > District Haverfordwest Vol 11a Page 944 (son of above) > > Birth Certificate of William Howell/s born ? > District Haverfordwest Vol 11a Page 956 ( son of above) > > Birth Certificate of Mary Ann Howell/s born Dec 1880 District > Haverfordwest Vol 11a Page 893 (dau of above) > > Birth Certificate of James Morgan Howells born 8 -1 1885 March qtr > District Haverfordwest Vol 11a Page 1013 (son of above) > > > > Marrige Certificate Thomas Howell 1876 District > Haverfordwest Vol 11a Page 1035 > > Marrige Certificate Sophia Morgan March 1876 District > Haverfordwest Vol 11a Page 1035 > > > > > > > >

Dear Marlena, To add further to your confusion, I found the following in the Ambleston Church burial records for 1813-37: 1821 17th. July, William Morgans, Woodstock, Ambleston, aged 55 ....i.e. born 1766 1833 16th. Mar., Mr. Thomas Morgans, Trenewedd in the parish of Llanrhian, aged 71....i.e. born 1762. 1833 20th. May, Martha Morgans, Newcastle Emlyn, aged 38....i.e. born 1795 1835 3rd. April, Mr. James Morgans of Dyfryn, Goodwick, Llanwnda Parish aged 76...i.e. born 1759 Major Francis Jones Extended Pemb. Houses book informs me that John Hill Harries was the owner of Trenewedd by 1842 when James MORGAN was the tenant of its 337 acres....that dreaded "s"..... it may or may not mean that he was a son of Mr. Thomas Morgans. Dyfryn was also in the hands of farming tenants for a considerable period of time. I may be totally out of line, but Mr. James M. born 1759, Mr. Thomas M. born 1762 and William Morgans born 1766 may have all been brothers.......they all chose to be buried at Ambleston church so may have had a family affinity for the area. I do not know if they are the "Misters" mentioned here, but a James Morgans married Dinah John in 1784 at Rudbaxton and a Thomas Morgans married Dorothy Matha? in 1796 at Rudbaxton. It seems quite logical that the brothers, if they are brothers, would court their wives in a parish quite close to Ambleston. It was the practise of the times that farmer tenants held leases for a certain period, then moved on to another property when the term of the lease expired. The two Misters were not too far away from one another in their later years either, at Llanrhian and Llanwnda. This might prove to be total hogwash, but at least it shows a Morgans family attachment to the Ambleston area. A James Morgans' will was proved in 1836 (Haverfordwest Town and Co.) but this may not be the same person. The other names do not appear. They may have had their affairs administered......Will Calendars would have to be consulted for Administrations. Bill or another Lister may have a more complete history for some of the names I've mentioned. You now will need another cuppa. Bettye Kirkwood.