I said tounge in cheek that I wasn't sure if this info would help or hinder!! The way it appears in my last mail makes it gibberish--so here it is again! Sorry about the first attempt!! 1851 Census Clydau(Clydey in record) Bwlch y Groes David Elias 54 Labourer Anna " 53 wife Ann " 28 John " ? All were born in parish of Clydey Llandygwyd(dd) Cnwc Rachel Elias 91 widow pauper b Llandygwyd Mary " 20 grandau. dressmaker Clydey 1841 Census Clydey Bwlch y Groes David Elias 45 Ag Lab Hannah " 44 Hannah " 14 John " 10 Thomas " 6 Llandygwyd Farm servant in Tyngallt---Anne Elias 15 Ann D in Aber