Hi Joy, thank you for the information. I have a lot to learn trying to converse and to express myself better in Family History language, that's what the lady was trying to tell me but I got carried away on receiving the certificates. I asked for a certificate for Thomas Howell born Sep 1837 Pembrokeshire and was told there was not one there. I have since delved into my folder of possibles and have found these two I took these off the I.G.I a while back ( 1 ) Thomas Howell (chris) 29-05-1837 at Johnston Parents James Howell Martha Howell ( 2 ) Thomas Howell (chris) 08-07-1838 at Freystrop Parent Mary Howell ( ? illegitimate ) I was told to be on the look out for something like ( 2 ) I will inquire about the above and I will take onboard what you said about church and chapel registers. All for now Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Sophia Morgan/s Hi Marlena Civil Registration did not start until 1 July 1837. Many births were registered between 1837 and 1875 during which period parents were only legally obliged to inform a registrar of the details of a birth if a registrar demanded them. Many people did not know about the law, or thought that a child's baptism, recorded in a church reger, was a legal alternative to registration. If you cannot find a birth entry you should search church (or chapel) registers for a baptism. The position improved from 1875 when the Births and Deaths Act 1874 imposed a duty upon those present at a birth or death to report it to a registrar. There were fines for non-registration and penalties for late registration (that is more than forty-two days after a birth). Despite this, some births and deaths since 1875 have not been recorded. Further more, in order to avoid paying a late registration penalty, some parents reported a later (incorrect) date of birth for a child. (Transcribed from Ancestral Trails by Mark D. Herber) I have instances of both non reported births and later (incorrect) dates in my family tree. Iff the Registrar at Haverfordwest has not traced it then it does mean that you will not be able to obtain a Birth Certificate. Bye for now Joy