Forwarded for Gerry who is now back with us and probably suffering from withdrawal symptoms :-) Gareth Admin for the Rootsweb DYFED, CGN & PEM lists Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html Cwmgors/Waun http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry" <gerry@asterisk.co.uk> To: <WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: [WLS-PEM] HOOPER > on 20/2/05 12:00 pm, Spanielsminilop@aol.com at Spanielsminilop@aol.com > wrote: > >> I wondered IF there is anyone researching HOOPER-in Pembroke >> please?Robert >> and wife Christiana-Robert was born in Brixham,Devon-and Christiana in >> Hull-she >> was nee Woodall.Thery married in Hull,in 1869.Like to contact if there is >> SKS.Thanks Jean > > Hello Jean > > Presumably you are aware that they were living with their six children in > Church Road, Hazlebeach, Llanstadwell in 1891? If you'd like the > information > let me know. > > According to the return for the Fishing Sailing Smack "Vesta" ("belonging > to > Hull") situated in Milford Haven on Census Day (Sunday, 5th April) a > Robert > Hooper was the Master or Chief Officer. The numbers given for the vessel > were Fishing No.997 and 73186, tonnage 74, employed for trawling and had > arrived in Milford Haven on 31st March. Four crew members were ashore on > Census Night. > > Edward Griffiths (single, aged 39) was the only person on board - > described > as a cook. > > The return was signed by a Charles Attley [?] who was presumably another > member of the crew, but he was not on the northern shore of the Haven on > Census Night. > > Gerry lewis > > > >

Hello Henry The William Lawrence who married Esther in 1848 is shown as being born in Haverfordwest St Mary parish in the 1851 census He is a Shoemaker and so is his father - as shown in the 1841 census entry shown below. Are you sure about the Steynton connection? - if so are you sure this is your William Lawrence? 1851 Haverfordwest St Mary parish enum dist 4B Folio 104 page 9 schedule 30 Quay Street William Lawrence HD M 24 Shoemaker PEM Haverfordwest St Mary Esther " WI M 25 PEM Haverfordwest St Thomas 1841 Haverfordwest St Mary Folio 4 page 3 Quay Street John Lawrence 45 Shoemaker Y Elizabeth " 44 Y Jane " 19 Y Eleanor " 17 Y William " 14 Y Essex " 12 Y John and Elizabeth married in Haverfordwest St Mary parish - so still no Steynton connection - although there were other Lawrence families in the Steynton area. Let me know if this family fits with your information and I'll see what else I can find for you. Cheers Pat In message <60.5046c1aa.2f54a6ba@aol.com>, Preselly@aol.com writes >I wonder if any lister can help. William Lawrence b. abt 1827 (I think in >Steynton) married an Esther ??. William is my wifes 2xggfather. Free >BMD and 1837 online show a William LAWRENCE marrying in Sept. 1848 in >Haverfordwest. I am trying to trace Esther's family. If anyone is >researching this >family tree I would be grateful for a lead on Esther. > > >Henry Johnston > >______________________________ -- Pat Powell

Hi, A quick look on the FreeBMD site shows William but the ref. number is mixed 26 79/27 however a search for Esther in same quarter came up with these two. Esther James ref 26 717 Esther Williams ref26 727 if you take the 9 out of the ref for William you would be left with 26 727 but the only way to be sure is to buy the cert. Regards David -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.1 - Release Date: 27/02/2005

I wonder if any lister can help. William Lawrence b. abt 1827 (I think in Steynton) married an Esther ??. William is my wifes 2xggfather. Free BMD and 1837 online show a William LAWRENCE marrying in Sept. 1848 in Haverfordwest. I am trying to trace Esther's family. If anyone is researching this family tree I would be grateful for a lead on Esther. Henry Johnston

I believe the above were my wife's 2xgg grandparents. John was born in 1831 Steynton and Jane GRIFFITHS was born in 1833. According to Free BMD a John DAVIES married in June 1852 probably to Jane as a Jane is shown as John's wife in the 1881 census. Can any lister provide any background to Jane GRIFFITHS please. Possibly something from the 1841 Census. Any help will be appreciated. Henry Johnston

Dear Charles, There are early marriages recorded for Voyles in Rhos Hundred and Narberth Hundred in Pembrokeshire.. I could not see a record for a Jacob. (It depends where his name was recorded as Jacob.........in old documents the Latinised version of a person's name was used....so Jacob was sometimes actually James). There may be others in different Hundreds, but apparently none recorded in Cemais Hundred or Dungleddy Hundred marriages. In the St. David's Probate index, there are wills for George Voyle, proved at Dale 1722 Dorothy Voyle, proved at St. Petrox 1720 Henry Voyle, St. Petrox, 1713 Sibles Voyle, Dale, 1734 William Voyle, Marloes, 1650 It is quite possible that Jacob Voyle may have been mentioned in the Will of a parent or grandparent. If you do not get more positive answers to your query, I would suggest you obtain the index page for Voyle wills from Pembrokeshire Records Office, Haverfordwest, and, also from there, perhaps order the abstract of the wills I have mentioned so that you can look for Jacob's name. There are details for Voyle wills before and after the 1700's as well. Copies of actual wills can only be obtained from The National Library of Wales, and to save costs, it is necessary to first have the St. David's number. The Records Office may also have other and better ideas to assist you. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. ---- Original Message ----- From: "CHARLES VOYLES" <cncvoyles@msn.com> To: <WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 8:19 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] New and Need some help > Hi, > > I am new to this list... I am looking for some help... > > Looking for Jacob Voils/Voyles/Voyle Born 1718 in Wales maybe Pembrokeshire. Married about 1740 to Martha and had 4 sons. William Born 1741, James Born 1743, John born 1743, Thomas born 1745. The story is they left for the new world in 1755 or 1759. Martha died prior. I am trying to find our or prove any of these facts. > > Let me know if you can help, > > Thanks, > > Charles F Voyles jr > (720) 490-6633 > 109 Hampstead Ave > Castle Rock, CO 80104 > > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > >

I would like to unsubscribe for a few weeks as I am going on holiday Regards Karen Moore Palmerston North New Zealand -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.3.0 - Release Date: 21/02/2005

Yes, the name Voyle was prevelent in the Dale/Marles area - one branch were of Philbeach Farm, Marloes. William Voyle married Margaret Barrett a co-heiress who had inherited Philbeach from her father Peter Barrett who was living there in the reign of King Henry VI. The Voyle family remained at Philbeach until the latter part of the 17th century. The last of the main line living there was William Voyle, who was living there in 1647 with his wife Barbara, daughter of Sir William Chancey. They had no children and the estate passed to William's brother, Mathew Voyle, who married Grace, a widow, and had two daughters. Philbeach was sold to the Wogan family of Boulston. (Source: Historic Pembrokeshire Homes) Bettye, Do you have access to the St. David's Probate index? If, you do - would you mind looking for the name DAVIES/DAVIDS of Dale for me. Unfortunately, the CD of the Index that I own no longer works and I refuse to buy another copy!! Stingy, I know. A word of warning - it pays to make a copy of ANY commercially produced CDs - after a while some seem to be unreadable. I am told this is where cheap blank CDs have been used. Many thanks Rose 10

I'm delighted to report that I've managed to raise Gerry by 'phone and the problem is exactly as I suspected - his asterisk domain name suddenly became unusable. He hopes to have sorted it all out this coming week and looks forward to returning to the lists. Gareth Admin for the Rootsweb DYFED, CGN & PEM lists Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html Cwmgors/Waun http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html .

Hi, I am new to this list... I am looking for some help... Looking for Jacob Voils/Voyles/Voyle Born 1718 in Wales maybe Pembrokeshire. Married about 1740 to Martha and had 4 sons. William Born 1741, James Born 1743, John born 1743, Thomas born 1745. The story is they left for the new world in 1755 or 1759. Martha died prior. I am trying to find our or prove any of these facts. Let me know if you can help, Thanks, Charles F Voyles jr (720) 490-6633 109 Hampstead Ave Castle Rock, CO 80104

Hi Rhian, Just wondered if said William GRIFFITHS might have married my Gt Gt Aunt Elizabeth RICHARDS 23/06/1850. She was one of 8 siblings who are believed to originate in the area to the SW of Pembroke. Unfortunately I have no details yet of any issue from that marriage but am open to offers! John Richards. (Hertfordshire) Researching RICHARDS & DUGGAN (SW Pembs) 1800s and earlier. DYFED FHS Member.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rhian wood" <rhiannon@telefonica.net> To: <WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:54 PM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Roberts : Hello, I was wondering if someone can look up a family for me on the 1891 census of Pembroke ( Dock ) please, there is a William Henry Roberts and his new wife of one year Martha, William will be down as coming from Northampton and Martha from some where in Pembroke. at the time of their marriage they were living, William at Longmains Monkton and Martha at Portclew Lamphrey, he will be about 34 years old & she will be 28 years old. : : Can I also ask one more thing please, is it possible if you can also look up her father William Griffiths he was a Quarryman at the time of her marriage. : : I am having difficulty finding her birth date as there were a few Martha Griffiths with father called William born about the same time, I am hoping that this 1891 census will help me find the right family. : : Thank you very much for your help. : : Thank you : Rhian : : : ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== : Rootsweb list archives[threaded] http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WLSPembrokeshire-L/ : : : : : -- : No virus found in this incoming message. : Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. : Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/2005 : : -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/2005

Hello, I was wondering if someone can look up a family for me on the 1891 census of Pembroke ( Dock ) please, there is a William Henry Roberts and his new wife of one year Martha, William will be down as coming from Northampton and Martha from some where in Pembroke. at the time of their marriage they were living, William at Longmains Monkton and Martha at Portclew Lamphrey, he will be about 34 years old & she will be 28 years old. Can I also ask one more thing please, is it possible if you can also look up her father William Griffiths he was a Quarryman at the time of her marriage. I am having difficulty finding her birth date as there were a few Martha Griffiths with father called William born about the same time, I am hoping that this 1891 census will help me find the right family. Thank you very much for your help. Thank you Rhian

Hi bettye, many thanks for the lookup . thomas was born circa 1822 dorothy was born circa 1829 from the various census entries i have come across ,the only tenious link i have to a place of birth is in the 1881 census it list her being born in Llanonder pem this could be an anglocized misspelling of Llanwda as in previous census she has down born fishguard district pem .she appears to have been illiterate when she married as she made a mark whereas thomas signed it . i have come to the conclusion that the family migrated to glam about 1856-8 and strongly suspect it was about the time his father died as that would make sense i have a few entries for the death certificate of a david evans haverfordwest for those years but will probably bimble over their to have a look in the graveyards to see if their is any evidence pin pointing a more precise date etc as i am staying in cardiff for the upcoming wales versus austria football game and cant remeber visiting pembrokeshire before. all the best chris evans cold wet and blustery warwickshire > From: "BJ & LC Kirkwood" <bjkirkwood@bigpond.com> > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:34:37 +1100 > To: "chris Evans" <chris.m.evans@ntlworld.com>, > <WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] newbie > > Dear Chris, > > We are always happy to see Newbies. >

Hi barry, thanks for the info,didnt realise that that was the first one to ask for a place and as it was the first time i had looked at a census of that period i was a bit amazed at it . all the best chris evans > From: "Barry Johnson" <saintcybi@llangibby.eclipse.co.uk> > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:28:15 -0000 > To: WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WLS-PEM] Re: newbie > Resent-From: WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 03:28:15 -0700 > > Chris - > > I've only ever seen the term "British Subject" on a census when the person

Hi pat, thank you very much,this is a very friendly list it appears didnt expect any replies for ages. i have only been doing this research for a few months so have been very pleased that this line has been the most profitable. the forward passage of time for the family is as follows. thomas evans (30)marries dorothy morse (23) 30th march 1852 henry's moat thomas residence penbank dorothy residence danycoed. witnesses seth reynolds and stephen phillips. curate :lewis davies in 1861 census they are living at 165 harriet street aberdare glamorgan. thomas 40 blast furnace lab p.o.b pem dorothy 33 pem fishguard martha 8 pem fishguard john 6 pem fishguard david 3 glam Llansamlet evan 1 glam llansamlet this makes them leaving pem in about 1858 1871 20 clive place cwmdare ,aberdare thomas evans 49 coal lab p.o.b henrys moat dorothy 42 parish nk pem john 17 tailor henrys moat david 14 Llansamlet evan 12 llansamlet james 9 aberdare william 5 aberdare george 2 aberdare i am descended from the john evans line so this is where he goes. married anne williams 30 sept 1874 brigend register office 1881 living at mount pleasant coity higher (just outside bridgend) glam. he now has taken his mothers maiden name as a middle name and given it to all the other members of his family. john morse evans 27 tailor p.o.b pembrokeshire parish nk anne morse evans 23 glam glyndwr 6 glam st brides minor cadwaladr 5 " " myfanwy 3 glam 1891 5 bettws rd ynysawdre just north of bridgend . john morse evans 37 tailor p.o.b glam aberdare anne morse evans 33 glam aberkenfig glyndwr 16 coal miner st brides minor cadwaladr 15 coal miner st brides minor myfanwy 13 st brides minor john morse evans had a total of 10 surviving children all named after welsh figures from history. he died in 1900 of his 10 children all but cadwaladr emigrated and settled in the usa or canada . i am descended from cadwaladr and now live on the wrong side of the border;-) one of cadwaladrs daug married a dutch man and now lives in holland. their is no family oral tradition that any were born abroad just that they had been farmers and migrated to the coal fields. thanks for the 1841 entry i had missed it when i popped into london to look at the bmd's and census . hope this isnt boring everybody. the marriage entry you have found certainly fits the dates for john's birth being 1821/2 . i was amazed at the age difference and the fact he was a schoolmaster and hence literate . for the marriage entry do you know where i can go to see the complete entry to see if i can discover any more clues. thank you for youre help chris evans > From: Pat Powell <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:04:38 +0000 > To: chris Evans <chris.m.evans@ntlworld.com> > Cc: WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re Thomas Evans and Dorothy Morse > > Hello Chris > > Re "British subject" as a birthplace - I have usually come across this > for those who were born outside of the UK but who were British Subjects.

Hello Chris Re "British subject" as a birthplace - I have usually come across this for those who were born outside of the UK but who were British Subjects. In most cases the country is also given e.g Bombay, India (B.S.) This may be the answer here - or as all are shown as such including the next household - maybe it was just the way it was expressed. Some people just have "Pembrokeshire" and some just have "Wales" as a birthplace. As 1851 was the first census to show birthplace - 1841 just having y for in county and N for not in county - things may have been a bit uncertain in some areas. Looking at the family in 1841 they all have Y for born in county!!!! Do you have them in 1861? If not - do you have any idea where they were? They were not in Henrys Moat (unless I missed them when I looked) In case you don't have 1841 here is the entry:- parish of Henrys Moat Folio 8 page 11 Penbank David Evan 70 Schoolmaster Y Mary " 45 Y Thomas " 20 Y Levi " 15 Y Ann " 12 Y David " 9 Y Mary " 6 Y Do you think this is the parents' marriage? May 19 1818 David Evans of Henrys Moat married Mary Miles in Castlebythe Re John Morse - there are several John Morse, farmer and John Morse Ag Lab in Pembrokeshire census in 1841 - but I can't see a Dorothy Morse at all (except one who was much too young) How old was she on the marriage certificate? (possibly "of full age" which tells us very little) There is no Morse family in Danycoed in Henrys Moat - possibly there were in a different Danycoed - or more likely Dorothy was working in Danycoed in henrys Moat when ahe met Thomas. You said here father was living at Danucoed - but presumably you meant the "residence" quoted on the marriage certificate was Danycoed which would have been the residence for Dorothy - not necessarily her family home. Can you give us the witnesses to the marriage - sometime they give a clue. As you have traced back to these two families - can you give the links - where did Thomas and Dorothy and their family move to? Hoping to track down some information for you. Pat In message <BE43B367.400E9%chris.m.evans@ntlworld.com>, chris Evans <chris.m.evans@ntlworld.com> writes >Hi all, >newbie here ,i have just traced my paternal line back to pembrokeshire. >i have a thomas evans marrying a dorothy morse at the parish church in >henry's moat on 30th march 1852. >the fathers are david evans schoolmaster living at penbank >and john morse farmer living at danycoed >spellings as on certificate. >i have found david evans (aged 81) on the 1851 census at penbank.married to >a mary evans aged 56 and a daughter aged 16 named mary. >place of birth is given as british subject for all members of the household >as are the members of the household for dyffryn (next entry)not sure of the >meaning for this . > >just wondering if anybody had details of schools in the area at around 1800 >to 1850 >penbank i think is just up from dyffryn which is on current maps. > >also wondered if anybody knew of this john morse . >all the best > >chris > >______________________________ -- Pat Powell

Dear Chris, We are always happy to see Newbies. I don't recall having seen "British subject" written as place of birth previously, maybe it means that they were all born in the UK. I had a quick look at the 1861 index for Henry's Moat.....I may have missed her as many words are difficult to decipher, but I could not see Mary Evans who would probably have been widowed by that time. In the Land Tax records for Henry's Moat in 1808 there is a David Evans tenant at part of Penrallt. He may be the David Evans of Henry's Moat who married Mary Miles at Castlebythe on 19/05/1818. She could well be the Mary Evans a Lodger at the home of William and Ann Mathias, in nearby Jordanstown, aged 71 in 1861 and shown as born at Castlebythe. I have an interest in the Morse name, but unfortunately not all Morse families who lived in Pembrokeshire originated there. There are marriages for males named John Morse in 1814, 3 in 1816, 1825 and 1836 in the Pembrokeshire indexes, but none seem to really match your requirements. I can't find the properties Penbank or Danycoed on the Henry's Moat land tax.......do you have Thomas and Dorothy's ages? The 1841 census would at least show their ages rounded, and for David and Mary, if they were born out of the County or not. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris Evans" <chris.m.evans@ntlworld.com> To: <WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 3:37 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] newbie > Hi all, > newbie here ,i have just traced my paternal line back to pembrokeshire. > i have a thomas evans marrying a dorothy morse at the parish church in > henry's moat on 30th march 1852. > the fathers are david evans schoolmaster living at penbank > and john morse farmer living at danycoed > spellings as on certificate. > i have found david evans (aged 81) on the 1851 census at penbank.married to > a mary evans aged 56 and a daughter aged 16 named mary. > place of birth is given as british subject for all members of the household > as are the members of the household for dyffryn (next entry)not sure of the > meaning for this . > > just wondering if anybody had details of schools in the area at around 1800 > to 1850 > penbank i think is just up from dyffryn which is on current maps. > > also wondered if anybody knew of this john morse . > all the best > > chris > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > >

Chris - I've only ever seen the term "British Subject" on a census when the person concerned was born abroad to British subjects. You'll see plenty of these on the Pembs. censuses, especially in the garrisons of the Milford Haven forts and Pembroke Dock. (See Thorne Island in 1881 for a particularly poignant case.) However, if no foreign place of birth is given, it's my guess (and it's only a guess!) that the people concerned didn't know their place of birth, except that it was it the UK to parents who were British subjects. The enumerator may then have taken it on himself to make use of the term. After all, the 1851 Census was the first one in which the place of birth had to be given (the 1841 simply requiring the information as to whether the person was born in or out of the county concerned), and neither the enumerator nor his informants were used to the question! Barry Johnson Monmouthshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris Evans" <chris.m.evans@ntlworld.com> To: <WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: newbie > Hi all, > newbie here ,i have just traced my paternal line back to pembrokeshire. > i have a thomas evans marrying a dorothy morse at the parish church in > henry's moat on 30th march 1852. > the fathers are david evans schoolmaster living at penbank > and john morse farmer living at danycoed > spellings as on certificate. > i have found david evans (aged 81) on the 1851 census at penbank.married > to > a mary evans aged 56 and a daughter aged 16 named mary. > place of birth is given as british subject for all members of the > household > as are the members of the household for dyffryn (next entry)not sure of > the > meaning for this . > > just wondering if anybody had details of schools in the area at around > 1800 > to 1850 > penbank i think is just up from dyffryn which is on current maps. > > also wondered if anybody knew of this john morse . > all the best > > chris > > ______________________________

Brian I don't know but I suspect that Gerry has a problem with his domain name and/or his service provider. Let us hope it is a temporary one, I feel sure it must be. Gareth Admin for the Rootsweb DYFED, CGN & PEM lists Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html Cwmgors/Waun http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Comley" <brian@bcomley.freeserve.co.uk> To: <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Thomas DAVIES b.1826 - 1841 & 1851 Censuses - Haverfordwest District I have sent my thanks to Pat, who has helped me in other areas, direct. What I can't understand is to where has Gerry Lewis disappeared. He has been such a force on this List years. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Powell" <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> To: <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Thomas DAVIES b.1826 - 1841 & 1851 Censuses - Haverfordwest District > Hello Brian > > I've got that area in 1841 and 1851. > > Will have a look this afternoon for you. > > Cheers > > Pat ==== DYFED Mailing List ==== Gareth's Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html

Hi all, newbie here ,i have just traced my paternal line back to pembrokeshire. i have a thomas evans marrying a dorothy morse at the parish church in henry's moat on 30th march 1852. the fathers are david evans schoolmaster living at penbank and john morse farmer living at danycoed spellings as on certificate. i have found david evans (aged 81) on the 1851 census at penbank.married to a mary evans aged 56 and a daughter aged 16 named mary. place of birth is given as british subject for all members of the household as are the members of the household for dyffryn (next entry)not sure of the meaning for this . just wondering if anybody had details of schools in the area at around 1800 to 1850 penbank i think is just up from dyffryn which is on current maps. also wondered if anybody knew of this john morse . all the best chris