Hi Pat, I don't have the marriage certificate, but I believe that Harriet was very possibly nee James before she became Phillips and subsequently Thomas.At the moment it is just a strong theory I have but this is how I see it:- Harriet is a brother to Henry James who marries my my GGGGGrandmother, Sarah Belth(Belt used to be spelt like this)nee Cole in 1825. Sarah had 5 children by her first marriage(William Belth)i.e James,Elizabeth,Sarah, William and John. She also had one child, Charlotte by her marriage to Henry James.Sarah died in 1830 survived by her Belt offspring,Charlotte and Henry. Between 1824 and 1830 probably the Belth children remained in the knew "James" household certainly John, William and Sarah as they would have only been approximately 8,12 and 16 respectively by the time their mother died in 1830.Also a close relationship would have probably developed between Charlotte and her half siblings especially John as they would have been the youngest in the household. The question arises, what happened to the children when Henry and his new wife moved to Caldy Island? Certainly by the 1841 census the family had "broken up" i.e. John is living with the Athoe family in Jeffreston, Sarah is living with an Edwards family and Elizabeth is living in St Florence, but in the years prior to that I suppose anything is possible. Did Henry move in the mid 1830's and leave the BELTH children in the care of Harriet Phillips(nee James) and become their "adopted mother" this seems very likely as we know there is a link between Harriet Phillips and the Belth's through Sarah(Henry James's stepdaughter)her illegitimate daughter Sarah(b 1845) and later her illegitimate daughter Harriet(born 1869)-all a little confusing with the name Sarah and illegitimate births. This is about how far I got with this line of thought, possibly the will of Isaac Phillips may reveal some further links but I have yet to locate and obtain a copy to see if there is anything in there. Hope this makes some sense to you - certainly had me confused for a while Please keep in touch (an vice versa)if anything else is uncovered Regards Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 December 2003 12:46 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 Hello Kevin I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in 1851. Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, kce <[email protected]> writes >Hi all, >If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - there >is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who >later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as >grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) >Any info appreciated. >Regards >Kevin > -- Pat Powell ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html

Would someone please be kind enough to look on the 1861 census inthe Mwnt area for a family of DAVIES/DAVIS to include a Sarah aged about 12-13? She is on the 1881 census in Verwick, born Mwnt, aged 32, with her children all born in the Verwick/LLangoedmore area. Any help will be very much appreciated. Thanks Ann

on 7/12/03 3:36 pm, [email protected] at [email protected] wrote: > Hi Listers > > The Census of 1861 emerates my gr gr grandfather, James PHILLIPS, > MINER, as being born in TENBY, PEM, (C1837). James' Marriage > Certificate of 1858 identifies his father as Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER. > I am hoping that SKS will locate an Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER with > a SON, James, age about 14, on the Pembroke Census of 1851. Assistance > with this research would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. > > -- > Wayne E. Phillips > Chester, VA > [email protected] Hello Wayne From an index: ref HO107/2476, Tenby in Liberty parish (Tenby Town), folio 93, page 12, schedule 44 Ann Phillips, 49, born Redberth Caroline Phillips, 15, born St.Florence Isaac Phillips, 47, born Jeffreyston John Phillips, 11, born Tenby William Phillips, 14, born Tenby No James. Gerry Lewis

Would someone please be kind enough to look up a marriage of John Williams to Sarah Davies/Davis around 1865/6?   Sarah was born in Mwnt,  they had their first child in 1867, and lived in Verwick/Ferwig and Llangoedmore until at least 1901 when Sarah was a widow.   I have tried all the usual web sites for a match but no luck on any of them. Any help will really be appreciated Thanks Ann

Hello to all from a new lister, I've just received a copy of the marriage certificate for the 2nd marriage of my great grandfather, George Thomas. I was then able to find the right George on the 1901 Census! I discovered several new details from these documents, but I'm now at a standstill again. Known facts: GEORGE THOMAS was living at No 14 Rheola Street, Penrhiwceiber, Glamorgan in 1901 and was listed as a collier. GEORGE THOMAS was born @1864 in Pembroke, Pembrokeshire His father was DAVID THOMAS, listed as a farrier (deceased) on the 1901 marriage certificate. I've tried to locate the family in 1881, but can't find a good match. I have a feeling that David may have been dead by then, and without his wife's name, I'm out of luck! If anyone has access to the 1871 Census, could I ask if they can find a David Thomas, farrier, with a son George about 3 years old? This might give me a few more clues. Any help or advise would be so appreciated. Sharon Sequim, Washington, USA

Hello Kevin I wondered about that family because of the presence of Humphrey in 1851. Do you have the marriage certificate for Harriet and John Thomas? Does it give her name as Phillips formerly James? Does it give her father as David James ? In which case Priscilla James in the 1841 would be her mother (see the marriage given by Bettye) Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, kce <[email protected]> writes >Hi all, >If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - there >is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who >later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as >grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) >Any info appreciated. >Regards >Kevin > -- Pat Powell

Hi all, If it is this Isaac Phillips then I would be interested to hear more - there is a link to my Belt family research with this family - through Harriet who later marries a John Thomas and the Belt and Philips surnames appear as grandchildren to Harriet in a later census(1851) Any info appreciated. Regards Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Pat Powell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 December 2003 12:21 To: [email protected] Subject: [WLS-PEM] Re: Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 Hello Wayne I've sen Bettye's reply and I think this may be the Isaac Phillips widower of Jeffreston who married a Harriet that she mentioned. Unfortunately as it's the 1841 census you do not have any relationships shown - but there is a James aged 6. 1841 Jeffreyston Folio 13 page 19 Grove. Isaac Phillips 80 Lab Y Harriet " 45 Y John " 15 Y Humphrey " 12 Y Catherine " 9 Y James " 6 Y Harriet " 4 mths Y Priscilla James 88 lodger Y You say you have the 1861 census info - could you give us all the info from that including the place and reference? Also who did he marry in 1858 and where? witness names etc All this may help to identify the family. I have Phillips family in Pembrokeshire and it is a very popular surname there indeed with lots of different spellings in different documents so I know how easy it is to pick on the wrong one - or to miss the right one as Philip and Phillip occur in different places in an alphabetic list such as the index of births. Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes >Hi Listers > >The Census of 1861 emerates my gr gr grandfather, James PHILLIPS, >MINER, as being born in TENBY, PEM, (C1837). James' Marriage >Certificate of 1858 identifies his father as Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER. >I am hoping that SKS will locate an Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER with >a SON, James, age about 14, on the Pembroke Census of 1851. Assistance >with this research would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. > >-- >Wayne E. Phillips >Chester, VA >[email protected] > >______________________________ -- Pat Powell ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== Pembrokeshire Archives email [email protected]

For those who are struggling to think of a present for yourself, Gomer's Xmas catalogue arrived today and includes these two books which caught my fancy. Now I only have to persuade my wife that they really are 'must have's ' :-) 'On Borrow's Trail' by Hugh Olliff - GBP 14.95 An illustrated companion to 'Wild Wales' documenting how little/much the country has changed since Borrow's jaunt of 1854. 'Talking Stones' by Lionel Fanthorpe and Richard Pawelko GBP 9.99 The book that accompanies the HTV series of the same name. "A roaring tour around the gravestones of Wales...." http://www.gomer.co.uk Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Hello Wayne I've sen Bettye's reply and I think this may be the Isaac Phillips widower of Jeffreston who married a Harriet that she mentioned. Unfortunately as it's the 1841 census you do not have any relationships shown - but there is a James aged 6. 1841 Jeffreyston Folio 13 page 19 Grove. Isaac Phillips 80 Lab Y Harriet " 45 Y John " 15 Y Humphrey " 12 Y Catherine " 9 Y James " 6 Y Harriet " 4 mths Y Priscilla James 88 lodger Y You say you have the 1861 census info - could you give us all the info from that including the place and reference? Also who did he marry in 1858 and where? witness names etc All this may help to identify the family. I have Phillips family in Pembrokeshire and it is a very popular surname there indeed with lots of different spellings in different documents so I know how easy it is to pick on the wrong one - or to miss the right one as Philip and Phillip occur in different places in an alphabetic list such as the index of births. Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes >Hi Listers > >The Census of 1861 emerates my gr gr grandfather, James PHILLIPS, >MINER, as being born in TENBY, PEM, (C1837). James' Marriage >Certificate of 1858 identifies his father as Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER. >I am hoping that SKS will locate an Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER with >a SON, James, age about 14, on the Pembroke Census of 1851. Assistance >with this research would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. > >-- >Wayne E. Phillips >Chester, VA >[email protected] > >______________________________ -- Pat Powell

Dear Wayne, An Isaac Phillipps, widower of Jeffreston, married Harriet James at Begelly on 26th. December, 1822.....but your Isaac Phillipps is more likely to be the one who was a Carpenter and married Ann James at Tenby on 29th. November, 1831. I don't have the census material, but this information may assist others who do. I do have the pre-1813 marriage index. At Tenby, using this Phillips spelling, a Clement Phillips married Jane Merchant in 1782, a David Phillips married Martha Hepster in 1776, a George Phillips married Rebecca Rees in 1791 and an Isaac Phillips married Anne Richards in 1772. The last one looks very promising, if it was a name handed down in the family. There is a previous group who also used this spelling in the 1730/40's at Tenby. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Isaac and James PHILLIPS 1851 > Hi Listers > > The Census of 1861 emerates my gr gr grandfather, James PHILLIPS, > MINER, as being born in TENBY, PEM, (C1837). James' Marriage > Certificate of 1858 identifies his father as Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER.

Hi Listers The Census of 1861 emerates my gr gr grandfather, James PHILLIPS, MINER, as being born in TENBY, PEM, (C1837). James' Marriage Certificate of 1858 identifies his father as Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER. I am hoping that SKS will locate an Isaac PHILLIPS, FARMER with a SON, James, age about 14, on the Pembroke Census of 1851. Assistance with this research would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. -- Wayne E. Phillips Chester, VA [email protected]

Hi Listers My wife's grandmother was an Annie Whitta Burchell (nee Lloyd) born 1881, Her father was George Lloyd,a tailor of Main Street,Pembroke. Annie had a brther Thomas John Owen Lloyd(born c.1879). Does anyone have any information regarding Thomas John Owen Lloyd or his parents - George(1851) and Margaret Elizabeth (1851). Of course like many other people I nver thought to question her when she was alive. She died at the grand old age of 95. Maybe her brother died young.Any suggestions would be welcome. Bryngwyn

Further to my original message (below), this new book is now available and here are the up to date purchase details. Don't forget that proceeds are going to charity. Postal ordering with sterling cheques or similar made payable to 'MIND in Dacorum' should be sent to;- Glynden Trollope Orchard Cottage Shenstone Hill Berkhamsted Herts HP4 2PA (01442) 863754 Or by sending VISA etc details and expiry date by e-mail or if preferred by phone to Glynden's local and reliable independent bookshop which is not charging any commission for this service or on sales. They have already transacted with NZ and USA in this way if sterling cheques are not available. <[email protected]> (01442) 864559 Glynden can usually arrange delivery post free in Swansea, Neath, Llanelly and Llandilo areas; Ealing S & E Bucks and W. Herts. When someone orders they need postal address, 'phone number &, if available e-mail address. They may be able to make other post free deliveries. The book costs £12 (GBP12) plus p&p. The book weighs 1.2 Kilos and costs more in p&p than first envisaged. UK p&p £4.50 Overseas p&p : Surface all destinations - £5; Airmail - Aus & NZ - £12; USA - £11. Any queries direct to Glynden please at [email protected] Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth" <[email protected]> To: "Dyfed" <[email protected]> Cc: "CGN" <[email protected]>; "PEM" <[email protected]>; "Glam" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 5:50 PM Subject: 'The Cambrian' Bi-Centeneray - cross posting > In the latest Dyfed FHS journal is mentioned that a book by Glynden Trollope > is to be published in November to celebrate the 200th anniversary of 'The > Cambrian' , the first English language newspaper to be published in Wales, > launched in Swansea in 1804. The book has c 600 extracts from the newspaper. > It is to be launched by Roy Noble, BBC presenter, in Swansea on 12th > November. > > The cost of the book will be GBP12 plus GBP3 postage (in UK I presume) - or > can be collected from Swansea or Llanelli. > All proceeds are to be donated to the charity 'MIND in Dacorum' (based in > Hemel Hempstead, Herts) or shared with other participating charities. > > I have registered my own interest at the email address provided > [email protected] > The director of MIND in Dacorum is Julie Attree, my initial email has > produced a snail mail response from Glynden Trollope saying that she is > currently away and will email out further purchase/delivery details in due > course, there will also soon be a web site. > If any one else is interested I suggest you reserve a copy at the above > email address. > > > Gareth > List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM > Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ > Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > . >

Hello Shannon The rules associated with the 1861 census CD I bought from DyfedFHS say that we can't do look-ups. However - I have been looking up various Edwards families following one of my links. This isn't one of mine - but it could be yours. There are quite a few Charles Edwards in Penally in 1861 but this matches the age and I see from 1881 that your Charles is a mason. Penally Parade Isaac Edwards Hd M 45 Stone Mason Pem Penally Mary " wi M 37 " Jane " dau 12 scholar " Charles " son 10 " " Lydia " dau 8 " " Thomas " son 6 " " If you look in 1881 there is an Isaac Edwards , stonemason, the right age but with a wife Catherine - possibly a second wife. 1881 census:- Dwelling: Penally Road Census Place: Penally, Pembroke, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342303 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5410 Folio 85 Page 1 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Isaac EDWARDS M 66 M Penally, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Stonemason Catharine EDWARDS M 65 F Llanboydi, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Wife In message <[email protected]>, Shannon Loechner <[email protected]a> writes >Good evening to everyone from Shannon in Canada... > >I have just begun researching my grandmother's side of the family and >ordered her parents' marriage certificate. Just found out her family is >listed in the 1881 British census as follows (birth dates approximate): > >Charles Edwards age born 1851 in Penally, Pembroke, Wales (mason) >Mary (James) Edwards born 1851 in Amrott, Pembroke, Wales >Florence E. Edwards born 1877 in Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales > >The last two daughters (that I know of) were born in Bristol, England: > >Mary Jane Edwards born 1879 (my great-grandmother) >Lydia Sophia Edwards b. 1881 > >At some point, Mary Jane Edwards emigrated to Canada, was a "spinster" until >1921 at which point she married Joseph Hall Emms in Winnipeg, Manitoba, >Canada. According to my grandmother, Betty Florence's birth certificate, >she would have been two at the time of her mother's marriage so I believe >she may have been born out of wedlock. > >I look forward to any information anyone might be able to provide regarding >my Edwards/James ancestors. Thanks very much in advance! > >Best regards...Shannon > >______________________________ -- Pat Powell

Wayne Phillips <[email protected]> wote: Gentlemen: Please advise as how I can recieve the PEMBROKESHIRE Digest or mailing list messages instead of the individual email messages. Thank you. =================== Dear Wayne, First unsubscribe from Mail mode by sending UNSUBSCRIBE to [email protected] Then subscribe to Digest mode by sending SUBSCRIBE to [email protected] But why exclude all the female list members from your message, Wayne? :o) Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 27/11/2003

Gentlemen: Please advise as how I can recieve the PEMBROKESHIRE Digest or mailing list messages instead of the individual email messages. Thank you. -- Wayne E. Phillips Chester, VA 23836 804-530-4623

Good evening to everyone from Shannon in Canada... I have just begun researching my grandmother's side of the family and ordered her parents' marriage certificate. Just found out her family is listed in the 1881 British census as follows (birth dates approximate): Charles Edwards age born 1851 in Penally, Pembroke, Wales (mason) Mary (James) Edwards born 1851 in Amrott, Pembroke, Wales Florence E. Edwards born 1877 in Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales The last two daughters (that I know of) were born in Bristol, England: Mary Jane Edwards born 1879 (my great-grandmother) Lydia Sophia Edwards b. 1881 At some point, Mary Jane Edwards emigrated to Canada, was a "spinster" until 1921 at which point she married Joseph Hall Emms in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. According to my grandmother, Betty Florence's birth certificate, she would have been two at the time of her mother's marriage so I believe she may have been born out of wedlock. I look forward to any information anyone might be able to provide regarding my Edwards/James ancestors. Thanks very much in advance! Best regards...Shannon

I see that Gerry Lewis has answered you query. However I can remember answering a simiular query about this GOULD family just over a year ago but have so many emails that I cannot keep all such correspondence. However I am sure you could access it in the Mailing List archive and may find someone researching the same ancestors as yourself. Meanwhile the following information may also be of interest to you:- GOULD Marriages 1813-1837 Rhos Hundred George Gould = Mary Rees by Licence 16.4.1828 at Hubberston John Gould, of Hubberston = Selina Barber by Licence 21.5.1829 at Steynton Thomas Gould = Margaret Davies by Licence 25.8.1829 at Hubberston William Gould = Mary Ann Evans 6.12.1834 at Hubberston Catherine Gould = George Thomas, Sailmaker, by Licence 4.6.1837 at Hubberston GOULD Marriages Pre 1813 Rhos Hundred John Gould = Margaret Duff 1737 at Llanstadwell Christiana Goold (sic) = Thomas Bedford 1804 at Haverfordwest St. Martin Elizabeth Goold (sic) = David Beavens 1779 at Roch Bye for now Joy

on 2/12/03 7:34 pm, Jon Gould at [email protected] wrote: > Hi, > Would SKS please do a lookup in the 1851 Hubberston Census for > William and Elizabeth Gould, neither were born in the area and both would > have been 73. Their Children John ( 1804 ), George ( 1807 ) and Thomas ( > 1811 ) were also living in the area. > > Many thanks > regards Jon Gould Hello Jon Only George was in the the Steynton Enumeration Area with wife Mary. Thomas's wife (widow?) was living with children George (9) and Thomas (7). Elizabeth (18) who had been living with William and Elizabeth senior was aso living in Hubberston. The old folks were not in adjacent Enumeration Areas. Gerry Lewis

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/davies/ Building a Nation - the Roots of Devolution by John Davies on BBC Wales. "Follow the course of Welsh history from the Romans to Rhodri Morgan. In twenty chapters, eminent historian Dr John Davies traces the development of the Welsh nation from the tribal battles of Celtic Britain to the Assembly debates in Cardiff Bay" Do try the History Quiz on there, I just scored 10/10, 'onest ! OK, I admit it, there were a couple of lucky guesses included :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .