Hi Alwyn, one more with a request for look up of the 1871 census. We have a marriage Certificate of Mary Schwarz's grandfather. The marriage (1873) was in Haverfordwest and lists the grandmother as Elizabeth Smith, with the father as Thomas Smith,Timber Hill,Harolsten West. The witnesses being an Edwin Smith (? brother) and an Ellen Banner. Elizabeth Smith was 24 in 1873. An other grandmother was Annie Williams, being 24 in 1880, and living at Dark Street,Haverfordwest. the father being Caleb Williams (Mechanic). Witnesses being Mary Jane Hitchings (Sister) and P.H.Hitchings. - We would be gratefull for any further information on the foregoing families. Herb and Mary (Revill) Schwarz in white and cold Ontario,Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:11 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Census 1871 > > Ancestry have added the 1871 census for Pembrokeshire to their UK site, if > anybody needs a lookup just holler - but if you need a lookup for John Jones and > the like please send enough info to make finding the right one possible > > All the best > > Alwyn > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Pembrokeshire Archives > email [email protected] >

Hello Alwyn Thank you for the Pembrokeshire Brigstocke households. They confirm several of the connections I had worked out elsewhere. Thank you also for the other Dyfed families. I have been seeing them in other censuses, but have not yet found a direct connection. I really appreciate your efforts Thank you Patrick

In a message dated 31/01/2004 19:15:54 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Is it indexed on line or do you have to trawl? > There is a partial index, but as you can imagine a Welsh census indexed in the USA needs some lateral thinking in order to find some names and places, especially long ones like "Cardiganshire, Llanfihangel Gennau'r Glyn" which have been squashed into a small column by the enumerator, and are almost impossible for the unfamiliar transcriber to decipher. One oddity that I have found with the Ancestry and the 1901 Census is that the transcribers are foxed by Welsh double character letters. John Thomas Jones, John Lloyd Jones and John Philip Jones are often recorded as John Th. John Ll. and John Ph. Which have been transcribed as the surname prefixes Le, St, De and even Mc, so if you can't find a person who might have a second name its worth looking for John LeJones, Edward DeOwen, William StDavies or Mary McThomas. All the best Alwyn

Just two Brigstoke Families in Pembrokeshire: RG10/5522 Folio 6 Page 6 Schedule 28 Hamilton Terrace Steynton Thomas Brigstocke Head 77 Married Vicar of St Katherine - Rural dean Jeffreston, Pembrokeshire Mrs Brigstock Wife Married Absent from home Caroline Wish Brigstocke Daughter 41 Unmarried Cook Walwyn's Castle, Pembrokeshire Ann Harries Servant 26 Unmarried Housemaid St Davids, Pembrokeshire Mary Ann Mills Servant 20 Unmarried Stableboy St Davids, Pembrokeshire Henry Griffiths Servant 13 Steynton, Pembrokeshire Rg10/5521 Folio 92 Page 116 Schedule 38 Rosemarket Vicarage Silvanus Brigstoke Head 75 Married Vicar of Rosemarket CofE Pembroke, Pembrokeshire Charlotte Brigstoke Wife 59 Married Tobago, West Indies Elizabeth Brigstoke Daughter 30 Unmarried Narberth, Pembrokeshire Ellen Brigstoke Daughter 23 Unmarried Holme Lacy, Herefordshire Maria Harby Visitor 24 Unmarried Clifton, Gloucestershire Anne Harby Visitor 22 Unmarried Clifton, Gloucestershire Mary Owen Servant 27 Unmarried Servant Llanstinan, Pembrokeshire William Peters Servant 15 Unmarried Servant Martletwy, Pembrokeshire Elizabeth Brown Servant 12 Unmarried Servant Rosemarket, Pembrokeshire A couple from other parts of Dyfed who may also be related as it is not a very common name in these parts. At Bangor, Newcastle Emlyn Cardiganshire Visiting John Richard Howell JP DL Captain of Carmarthenshire Militia are: William R. Brigstocke 39 JP DL Barrister at Law born Capel Coleman, Pembrokeshire, & Anne Gregory Brigstocke 32 born Canada In Carmarthenshire Are: RG10/5494 Folio 8 Page 10 Sc 62 Cerrig Llwydion St Clares Carmarthenshire Jane Brigstocke Head 61 Widow Pauper Laugharne, Carmarthenshire Job Brigstocke Son 32 Unmarried Painter St Clears, Carmarthenshire William Brigstocke Son 18 Unmarried Painter St Clears, Carmarthenshire Mary J Brigstocke Granddaughter 12 Scholar St Clears, Carmarthenshire And RG10/5497 Folio 71 Page 21 Sc 62 6 St Peters St Carmarthen Elizabeth Brigstocke Head 56 Widow Wine Merchant Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire Mary L Brigstocke Daughter 36 Unmarried Wine Merchant Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire Martha B Brigstocke Daughter 33 Unmarried Wine Merchant Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire Thomas E Brigstocke Son 23 Unmarried Wine Merchant Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire Maria Davies Servant 29 Unmarried Servant Abergwili, Carmarthenshire All the best Alwyn

In a message dated 31/01/2004 16:21:07 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Would you be able to lookup GEORGE AND SOPHIA HARRIES at Longridge, > Bletherston. > thank you. > Here they are: Rg10/5506 Folio 77 Page 4 Sc 23 Longridge Bletherston Pembrokeshire George Harries Head Married 58 Farmer of 404 acres employing 4 Labourer & 1 boy St Florence, Pembrokeshire Sophia Harries Wife Married 49 Farmer's wife Llandissilio, Carmarthenshire John H Harries Son 10 Scholar Bletherston, Pembrokeshire George Harries Son 8 Scholar Bletherston, Pembrokeshire Hugh Harries Son 5 Scholar Bletherston, Pembrokeshire Ann Evans Servant Unmarried 23 dairymaid Ludchurch, Pembrokeshire Phebe Phillips Servant Unmarried 20 General Servant Llandissilio, Carmarthenshire Anne James Servant Unmarried 19 General Servant Llawhaden, Pembrokeshire James Edwards Servant Unmarried 12 Farm Servant Bletherston, Pembrokeshire All the best Alwyn

In a message dated 31/01/2004 13:31:52 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Hi Alwyn, is there a chance I could have a look up for > Thomas Howell born 1844 > Sophia Morgan born 1850 > many thanks Marlena > I have two possibles for Thomas Howell: RG10/5508 Folio 63 Page 5 Sc 26 Reynoldton Bounty (difficult to decipher), Henllan Llanddewi Velfrey Pembrokeshire Thomas Howell Head Married 27 Railway labourer Llanddewi Velfrey, Pembrokeshire Mary Howell Wife Married 39 Llanddewi Velfrey, Pembrokeshire RG10/5508 Folio 17 Page 18 Sc 17 Sheep Street Narberth Pembrokeshire . William Howell Head Married 60 Butcher Narberth, Pembrokeshire Phebe Howell Wife Married 58 Butcher's Wife Bethesda, Pembrokeshire Thomas Howell Son Unmarried 26 Butcher Narberth, Pembrokeshire The nearest I could get to a 21 year old Sophia Morgan is a 23 year old Sophie in Llandeloy. If you think that this might be you girl, let me know and I will send you the full details Thomas Morgan 48 Brawdy, Pembrokeshire Head Mary Morgan 44 Brawdy, Pembrokeshire Wife Marth Evans 26 Brawdy, Pembrokeshire Daughter Sophie Morgan 23 Brawdy, Pembrokeshire Daughter John Evans 22 Mathry, Pembrokeshire Son-in-law Margaret Morgan 10 Hayscastle, Pembrokeshire Daughter Henry Morgan 1 Llandeloy, Pembrokeshire Grandson All the best Alwyn

Hi Alwyn and Jane Is it indexed on line or do you have to trawl? Bye for now Joy

Hi Marlena There is now only one Registrar's Office for the whole of Pembrokeshire and that is the one at Tower Hill, Haverfordwest where all the old records are now stored. Do you have this from the 1881 Census - I believe this may be them Dwelling: Trellys Y Cnwc Census Place: St Nicholas, Pembroke, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342306 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5424 Folio 94 Page 9 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Thomas HOWELL M 43 M Granston, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Head Occ: Ag Lab Sophia HOWELL M 32 F Hayscastle, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Wife David HOWELL 4 M Fishguard, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Son William HOWELL 3 M Fishguard, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Son Mary Ann HOWELL 8 m F St Nicholas, Pembroke, Wales Rel: Daur Sory to butt in on you, Bettye, but I thought you might not be aware that the Pembroke one closed about a year ago. Bye for npw Joy

Hi Alwyn, is there a chance I could have a look up for Thomas Howell born 1844 Sophia Morgan born 1850 many thanks Marlena ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Census 1871 > > Ancestry have added the 1871 census for Pembrokeshire to their UK site, if > anybody needs a lookup just holler - but if you need a lookup for John Jones and > the like please send enough info to make finding the right one possible > > All the best > > Alwyn > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Pembrokeshire Archives > email [email protected] > > > >

Hi John, thanks for the tip I will put a stop to that !! and I did not mind in the least it is great to know that we are all looking out for one another Thanks Marlena.(Chepstow Mon.) Searching Howell/s . Morgan/s . Pembrokeshire Rowles .Owens. Payne. Glamorgan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <[email protected]> To: "marlena payne" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Sophia Morgan/s > Hi Marlana, > > Just a tip I was given by the Sec. of DFHS not to disclose one's membership > number in emails. I used to do so until it was pointed out that non-members > could use it to gain access to member's pages and possibly even alter > things. > > Hope you don't mind me saying this. > > Regards, > > John Richards. > (St Albans UK) > Searching > RICHARDS & DUGGAN (Pembs & S. Wales) DFHS Member > RICHARDS, WIFFEN, DAY (London & Middx.) > WIFFEN & NORRIS (Stock, Essex) > > See http://www.archivecdbooks.org for details of my copy of "The History of > Wales". > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marlena payne" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:05 AM > Subject: [WLS-PEM] Sophia Morgan/s > > > > Hi Bill, Bettye, I received three of the four certificates I applied for, > the staff at Tower Hill Register Office are so helpful and so efficient I > sent off for the certificates on the Thursday followed by a telephone call > on the Friday and I received them Saturday. I am still going to keep an open > mind the information I received still leaves me in the dark so to speak. I > know now why they call it Family Tree, I am going to look at these branches > and twigs again but at least I sent off for the certificates something I > have wanted to do for a long time. > > > > Birth Certificate for Sophia Morgan. > > > > 10 March 1845 Ambleston Fathers name William Morgan ( Slater ) Mothers > name Anne Morgan / formally Madocks > > > > Marriage Certificate for Sophia Morgan. > > > > 12 February 1876 at Trefgam Chapel Brawdy. Thomas Howell 32 Marr Sophia > Morgan 26 Sophia's Father's name is Thomas Morgan (in the presence of > Thomas Morgan and Sarah Morgan ) for Thomas Howell there is no mention of > Fathers name or profession. > > > > I was not able to get a Birth Certificate for Thomas Howell it is not held > in Haverfordwest so I will have to apply to Pembroke Register Office ? > > > > I also sent off for my Grandfathers Birth Certificate James Morgan Howell > it has him born and living at Treslanog Mathry R.S.D but on a copy of a > Requisition form for a Birth Certificate it states he was born at a Dwelling > called Meildy St Nicholas Fishguard ?. > > > > sorry to have gone on so, thank you both for your time and patience > Marlena > > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > > National Library of Wales > > http://www.llgc.org.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 7.0.211 / Virus Database: 261.8.1 - Release Date: 30/01/04 > > > > > > -- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.211 / Virus Database: 261.8.1 - Release Date: 30/01/04 > > > >

Hello Alwyn Taking you up on your offer for lookups in the 1871 Census: I would be very interested to know which of my Brigstocke ggGrandparents' children and siblings were still around in 1871. The list below shows what I currently know about them. 1. my gg Grandparents Rev Thomas BRIGSTOCKE, b.1794 Jeffreston, Pemb d.1874 Haverfordwest, Pemb, Wales (FreeBMD) Caroline Buchanan WHISH, b. 1799 Northwold, Norfolk d.??1859 ??Walwyn's Castle, Pemb 2. Children of Thomas and Caroline. All were born at Walwyn's Castle, Pemb (All but Martin are seen in 1841 and/or 1851 Censuses -- Thanks to Sandra Davies and Pat Powell. Only Caroline junior & Harriet are seen in 1881. Richard, Frederick, and presumably Claudius, were overseas in 1881.) ?? Martin Whish Brigstocke b.~1826 d. 1899 Barton Regis (Bristol) Gloucs (not seen before FreeBMD record of death) Emily Sandys BRIGSTOCKE, 1827- ?m. George Patrick Lambert Emma Elizabeth BRIGSTOCKE, 1828- Caroline Whish BRIGSTOCKE, 1830 d. after 1881 ?London Rev. Claudius Buchanan BRIGSTOCKE b. 1831. d. 1899 St Saviour, Southwark, Surrey Newton Thomas BRIGSTOCKE, 1832-1832 Newton Thomas BRIGSTOCKE, 1833- Harriet Mary BRIGSTOCKE, 1835- d. after 1881 London m. Henry Tivy Tomkins Augusta Buchanan BRIGSTOCKE, 1836- Richard Whish BRIGSTOCKE, b. 1838 d. 1919, Lewisham, London m. Elizabeth Tomkins Rev. Decimus BRIGSTOCKE, 1839-1868 Rev Frederick Hervey John BRIGSTOCKE, 1841- St Johns, New Brunswick, Canada Siblings (and presumed siblings) of my ggGrandaprents who lived in Pembrokeshire (Caroline's sister) Charlotte Jane WHISH, b.1796 Northwold, Norfolk. d.1883 London (?Rev Thomas's Brother?) Rev Silvanus BRIGSTOCKE (?Rev Thomas's Brother?) Lt Charles BRIGSTOCKE RN I expect Rev Thomas and Rev Silvanus will be present. Are any of the other's around? and are there other family members in the households? Many thanks Patrick

Hi Bill, Bettye, I received three of the four certificates I applied for, the staff at Tower Hill Register Office are so helpful and so efficient I sent off for the certificates on the Thursday followed by a telephone call on the Friday and I received them Saturday. I am still going to keep an open mind the information I received still leaves me in the dark so to speak. I know now why they call it Family Tree, I am going to look at these branches and twigs again but at least I sent off for the certificates something I have wanted to do for a long time. Birth Certificate for Sophia Morgan. 10 March 1845 Ambleston Fathers name William Morgan ( Slater ) Mothers name Anne Morgan / formally Madocks Marriage Certificate for Sophia Morgan. 12 February 1876 at Trefgam Chapel Brawdy. Thomas Howell 32 Marr Sophia Morgan 26 Sophia's Father's name is Thomas Morgan (in the presence of Thomas Morgan and Sarah Morgan ) for Thomas Howell there is no mention of Fathers name or profession. I was not able to get a Birth Certificate for Thomas Howell it is not held in Haverfordwest so I will have to apply to Pembroke Register Office ? I also sent off for my Grandfathers Birth Certificate James Morgan Howell it has him born and living at Treslanog Mathry R.S.D but on a copy of a Requisition form for a Birth Certificate it states he was born at a Dwelling called Meildy St Nicholas Fishguard ?. sorry to have gone on so, thank you both for your time and patience Marlena # Dyfed 3263 # Glamorgan 5881

Ancestry have added the 1871 census for Pembrokeshire to their UK site, if anybody needs a lookup just holler - but if you need a lookup for John Jones and the like please send enough info to make finding the right one possible All the best Alwyn

Dear Bill, Thanks. That makes sense. Mine is a typed entry, so it must be a translator's error. Bettye K. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:11 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Re: Can you help with this Please! & Sophia MORGAN & Rev. Jones . > I have no idea what Swylon R.A. means......Royal Academy, Royal Artillery, > whatever?????? > > Bettye Kirkwood. > > Bettye & Marlena, > > My own transcription of this record says "Surgeon R.A." - I interpret R.A. > as Royal Artillery. > > Regards > Bill > (a bit of a backlog on my email at present!) > >

Dear Gareth, I have tried unsuccessfully for ages to send this message to [email protected] but it keeps getting rejected. I checked if I was bounced as per your earlier message today.....no, I am connected to both Lists. Gareth, would you please pass this on to Alwyn etc. B.K. To add to Alwyn's message, could I ask that folks, when writing their requests to the Lists, please add the County. I've been researching for about 10 years, have quite a few mainly Pembrokeshire records. I hadn't heard of Eglwysfach but found references to it in Major Francis Jones Cardiganshire Homes book....however the Ellis name was not in the index. We all lead busy lives, and there is just not enough time to go a'hunting in the dark. To Alwyn, David Ellis, Aberystwyth, Cards. left a will proved 1828 An Elinor Ellis's Will was proved at Aberystwyth in 1826. There were other wills for the Ellis and Elis name in Cardiganshire, and if you get yourself a copy of the name as it appears in the St. David's Probate index from Haverfordwest Records Office, you might find other Ellises which interest you. The RO could also provide you with will abstracts for the above two wills if you think they may relate to your search. Full Wills obtainable from The National Library at Aberystwyth, but it is less costly if you can give the St. David's reference number. These two Ellises may not be connected, and it may not be the David Ellis you seek, or you may already have this information and only seek details of a marriage record. After reading your message, I set myself an exercise to see if I could help at all with scant information (tv interrupted...it is raining on the cricket in Melbourne and I had been watching and sifting through will abstracts purchased for my own research)....but normally, with just the information you provided, time constraints would not allow me to do anything other than hit the delete. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia.

In a message dated 24/01/04 04:50:24 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Dear Phyllis and Bill, > Phyllis, I asked Bill if he had any further information on the Rev. Jones who was vicar of St. Dogmaels for 50 years, and husband of Margaret Makeig, but I have found this myself. So here it is for the enlightenment of all of us. Under Burials at St. Dogmaels 1813-37 <snip> 1829 Thomas Morgan Jones, son of the late Rev. Wm. Jones, late respected Minister of this parish, St. Dogmells, Swylon R.A., 17 Sept. (aged) 47. An Elizabeth Letitia Jones, Trecefn, parish of Verwick, died in 1833, 14th. Oct. aged 48.....probably widow of David Jones above. I have no idea what Swylon R.A. means......Royal Academy, Royal Artillery, whatever?????? Bettye Kirkwood. Bettye & Marlena, My own transcription of this record says "Surgeon R.A." - I interpret R.A. as Royal Artillery. Regards Bill (a bit of a backlog on my email at present!)

Update from Rw: ############# AOL is still blocking RootsWeb mail. We have contacted AOL to try to resolve the issues. In the meantime, AOL users should let AOL know they want RootsWeb list mail. AOL users can use the archives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ to read list mail. No ETA on when this bouncing problem will be resolved. ############### Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Hi Bettye This one got through anyway. It's messages FROM the RW lists to subscribers that are being bounced, at least that is what I was referring to since I get the bounced message advices in bulk in my inbox. I just read somewhere that aol's response to one of their users was " don't seem very concerned and say they should have solved the problem within 5 days." I think the problem is that isp filters keep treating Rw's messages, sent out in bulk, as spam for that reason alone. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "BJ & LC Kirkwood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:20 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Interesting messages > Dear Gareth, > > I have tried unsuccessfully for ages to send this message to [email protected] but it keeps getting rejected. I checked if I was bounced as per your earlier message today.....no, I am connected to both Lists. > Gareth, would you please pass this on to Alwyn etc. B.K. > > To add to Alwyn's message, could I ask that folks, when writing their requests to the Lists, please add the County. > I've been researching for about 10 years, have quite a few mainly Pembrokeshire records. I hadn't heard of Eglwysfach but found references to it in Major Francis Jones Cardiganshire Homes book....however the Ellis name was not in the index. > > We all lead busy lives, and there is just not enough time to go a'hunting in the dark. > > To Alwyn, > > David Ellis, Aberystwyth, Cards. left a will proved 1828 > An Elinor Ellis's Will was proved at Aberystwyth in 1826. > There were other wills for the Ellis and Elis name in Cardiganshire, and if you get yourself a copy of the name as it appears in the St. David's Probate index from Haverfordwest Records Office, you might find other > Ellises which interest you. The RO could also provide you with will abstracts for the above two wills if you think they may relate to your search. Full Wills obtainable from The National Library at Aberystwyth, but it is less costly if you can give the St. David's reference number. > > These two Ellises may not be connected, and it may not be the David Ellis you seek, or you may already have this information and only seek details of a marriage record. > > After reading your message, I set myself an exercise to see if I could help at all with scant information (tv interrupted...it is raining on the cricket in Melbourne and I had been watching and sifting through will abstracts purchased for my own research)....but normally, with just the information you provided, time constraints would not allow me to do anything other than hit the delete. > > Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. > > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > National Library of Wales > http://www.llgc.org.uk/ > >

Thanks Ann This is an ongoing 'battle' between Rootsweb HQ and aol/freeserve. Although subscribers are encouraged to question their isp as to why THEY are rejecting Rw's mail without good reason. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] AOLl blocked e-mail > > I have asked AOL why they have blocked e-mail from Roots Web today, they > say they have reported it to their e-mail dept and for list admin's to contact : > > ttp://postmaster.info.aol.com/ > > to report the problem. > > Hope this helps > > > Ann > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Dyfed FHS > http://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/ > >

Seems timely to remind listers of some basic survival suggestions and list requirements; Aol and freeserve are bouncing Rootsweb mail again today, auto unsubs may follow. If you feel that list mail isn't getting to you please check to see which lists you are still subbed to on http://passwordcentral.rootsweb.com Please don't send (re)subscribe messages before doing that, they end up in my mail box if you are still subbed, and please don't send test messages to the lists just to see if the list is still here, they are really boring. Don't open attachments you aren't expecting, even if the subject/apparent sender is familiar, the current virus attack is widespread. Check back with the sender first if in doubt. Keep your anti-virus definitions right up to date, manually today if not done automatically. Don't have the bounce spam facility switched on in Mailwasher or similar, it's a waste of time and potentially counter productive, just delete. Thanks Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .