Dear Gerry I wonder what their dates of birth were? I am aware that in colonies of France people attempted to follow the French tradition of naming children for the saint on whose name day they were born. Sometimes they read but apparently didn't interpret the calendar, so children were given names like "Fete Nationale" , or National Day, if they were born on 14 July, which in English is called Bastille Day. Megan Phelps On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 11:08 AM, Gerry wrote: > Hello All > > Here's a bit of trivia concerning the 1891 census of Pembrokeshire. > > I've just found a fourth person with a Christian name Christmas. He > has a > brother named Ascension which must be quite unusual. For the Morse fans > amongst you I haven't found an Endeavour yet. > > Gerry Lewis > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Pembrokeshire Archives > email [email protected] >

Hello List, Ann has very kindly sent me Lettice Greenish and family living in Charles Street, Steynton and James Greenish plus family living at Gallinwick(?) Farm, Hubberstone Charles St Steyton Lettice Greenish W 63 Landed Proprietor B Walton West Robert " son S 35 Hebrandstone--blind from small pox Martha L " dau " 33 " Elizabeth " " " 28 " Maria Davies servant " 19 Haverfordwest Gallinwick(?) Hubberstone James Greenish 34 farmer 500 acres Hebrandstone Mary E B " 34 wife Roach George P " 5 son Milford Robert " 4 " Haverfordwest Samuel K " 2 " Hubberstone and 5 servants--including a nurse and a nursemaid It's interesting that Lettice gives her place of birth as Walton West in 1871, this is where she was married in 1830 and is closer Lambston where her sister Mary Davies is thought to have been born. So now I'm looking for the birth of a Lettice Davies c.1807 in Walton West rather than Milford. I think I have found James' son George Greenish, christened George James Greenish 17 Oct 1865 St Mary, Haverford West; father George James Greenish and mother Mary Elizabeth Bassett. This son died in 1884 aged 18. James' wife Mary died in 1873 ( in FreeBMD Mary Elizabeth B. Greenish), maybe she died following the birth of Francis who was born that year. It's a bit of a puzzling that George's father's name is given as George James rather than just James. I wonder if Bassett was Mary Elizabeth's surname or one of her first names? perhaps after her marriage she added her maiden name to her married name? Can anyone tell me anything about her birth place ''Roach''? Sally --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04

>From the Will of Francis Andrew, Gentleman of Stainton Will made 22 November 1788 and probated 8 January 1794 Relevant details as follows - " My messuages, tenements and lands called Ven in the parish of Stainton to my sister MARY RAMBIN(?). Three fields or closes of ground called North Park; Slough Parks and Kiln Park with the cottage and garden adjoining, all situated on the north side of the road leading from Pill to Waterson, also the Highway Park, the Stony Wall Park and the meadows called Culm Pit Meadows all situated on the east side of the road leading to Ven House, also the field called Washing Stones lying below Ven Green together with liberty of raising stones in the Quarry on the hill under Long Park and also full and free liberty of ingress, egress and regress through and over the other parts of lands by all needful and convenient ways to lead, drive, take and carry away such stones at all reasonable times of the year also the right of watering at the well in Ven Green - unto my nephew THOMAS HAVARD and the heirs of his body lawfully issuing. The same unto my niece ANN HAVARD and the heirs of her body lawfully issuing. For want and default of such issue, the same unto my step daughter MARY, the wife of JOHN CRYMES Esquire and after her decease to such of the children of MARY CRYMES by her now or any aftertaken husband, failing that to NATHANIEL LEVETT of Castlehill, Stainton, Gentleman." (ANN HAVARD was to later marry the Reverend JOHN LEVETT vicar of Camrose.) (Here was the bit I transcribed earlier.) " My household goods and furniture also crop and implements of husbandry, monies and security for money and all other real and personal estate to my dear wife MARY ANDREW, my friends JOSEPH DAVIES of Great Heaton, Gentleman and his brother WILLIAM DAVIES, parish of Prendergast, Gentleman upon trust in the first place for the benefit of my wife Mary Andrew, my niece Ann Havard and my nephew Thomsa Havard. My wife, the said Joseph Davies and William Davies to have the liberty of eating and consuming the stock of corn, hay and grass upon my land - to hold and occupy the whole of my lands for three months after my decease for the purpose of making up my stock of cattle and for eating and consuming the straw, hay and grass - in that time no hay to be mowed or sold. Mary Andrew, Joseph Davies and William Davies to be Executors." Pat Dougan

Yes, I have wondered that too. I shall be going down to Pembrokeshire in May for our annual holiday so will make a point to going through the parish registers for Steynton for Andrew. I need to look carefully at the death entries and try to 'kill off' some of them. Maybe then it would not look too confusing. Also, I have taken a look of my map of Pembs and there is still a house called Venn Lodge in Steynton. Rose

Bettye and Rose Thanks for the info. You definitely need a clear head to follow this branch of the tree! Rose - We've been in touch before and are almost certainly connected, if I could only find my notes. My 5x great grandfather was FRANCIS ANDREW of Priory, Steynton who died in 1770. His wife was MARGARET and they had two daughters that I know of; Mary and my 4x great grandmother, Dorothy as well as a son, Francis. Son Francis was married to MARY whose daughter was the one married to John Crymes. Bettye - There is more to the Will I have already quoted from and I'll post it as soon as I get some peace (kids bedtime!). I also have the Will of Francis senior that was probated on 6 October 1770, I'll post that as well. My primary interest is of the HAVARD family of Haverfordwest. Dorothy Andrew married THOMAS HAVARD a 'merchant' in 1762 in the presence of Francis Andrew and William Davies. (Dorothy was baptised on 15 November 1739 and buried on 23 January 1779. Thomas had died the previous year.) I would welcome any information that comes your way. I haven't got any further with my Havard line but I do have the Will of JAMES HAVARD parish of St Mary Haverfordwest that was appraised on 8 February 1668. I post that too, eventually! Must go and feed my little darlings!! Pat

Oh Pat, That Will has really opened up a can of worms. You see, Joseph Davies of Gt. Hoaten is also one of mine. My gg grandmother was Martha Davies of Gt. Hoaten. Martha married William Henry Feild who was the grandson of Mary Andrew who was married to William Feild of Burton in 1780. That makes me even more convinced that we are connected - BUT WHERE? Now l'm really confused!! Going by what you have stated from the Will of Francis Andrew of 1794, it does indeed look as though my John Andrew (father of Mary married to William Feild 1780) might well be a brother of his. Rose

Hello Pat, Yes, I thought we had been in contact before. I would be most interested in the Wills. Do you know if there is a John Andrew of Old Hays or Mount Misery, Priory mentioned? Since we last spoke I have found a tree compiled by a relative of mine (it was at the Records Office in Haverford) which states that my John was the son of Francis Andrew and Margaret too, which would make him (if it is correct) a brother to your Dorothy. I have found nothing to tie him to Francis and Margaret other than this tree so, I feel, that I need more evidence. Also, on this tree it states that Mary Andrew who married John Crymes ALSO married M. Stokes of St. Botolph's. Regards, Rose

I wonder if SKP can find a family called Greenish for me in the 1871 Census? LETTICE/LETITIA GREENISH ( nee DAVIES) b. Milford about 1807 In 1881 she is living in Charles Street, Steynton, I think her husband, JAMES GREENISH, died 1867. Her children :- 1. THOMAS GREENISH, christened Herbranston 1832 ( I can't find Thomas in the 1881 census, so he may have died as an infant.) 2. JAMES GREENISH, christened Herbrandston 1833 ( in 1881 James is a widower, living with two of his sons SAMUEL GREENISH b. about 1869 and FRANCIS WARREN GREENISH b. about 1873. In 1901 FRANCIS GREENISH is living at Gellyswick Farm, Hubberston with his brother ROBERT PICTON GREENISH b. Milford about 1868 . In 1881 ROBERT P. GREENISH is attending Dew Street Grammar School, Haverfordwest with a GEORGE I. GREENISH b. Hubberston about 1866, perhaps another of James' children?) 3. ROBERT GREENISH, christened Herbrandston 1835 4. MARTHA LETITIA GREENISH, Christened Herbrandston 1837 ( Martha married JOHN EVANS in 1874) 5. ELIZABETH MARY GREENISH, Christened Herbrandston 1842 6. JOHN DAVIES GREENISH, Christened Herbrandston 1844 ( I think this child may have also died young, I can't find him in the 1881 census) LETTICE/LETITIA DAVIES was I believe my g.g.grandmother, MARY DAVIES's sister . The family tradition is that Mary Davies was born in Lambston in 1803 and that her mother was called Lettice. I don't suppose anyone knows of the birth a Lettice Davies in Milford about 1807? As Lettice Davies is a slightly less common name than Mary Davies, I'm hoping that she might lead me to their parents! Thanks, Sally --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04

Dear Pat, The plot thickens! Francis Andrew in 1769 married Mary Andrew at Steynton who must have been married to a Mr. Andrew (I hope) previously, to be the mother of his stepdaughter Mary Crymes. By my reckoning, the stepdaughter Mary would probably be born in the 1760's ...to marry in 1788 ....and her mother's name was Mary. Two possibilities....William Andrew in 1762 married Mary Batin at Steynton, or William Andrews in 1752 married Mary Moor at Hubberston. A John Battin in 1694/95 married Grace Jenkins at Steynton and a Brigett Battin in 1688/89 married William Butterfield....John and Bridgett may be brother and sister. I think there may be a relationship between these Batin/Battins, Thomas Batine who held a lease for lives of Denant, Steynton, in 1833, and William Batine of Barrett's Hill, Steynton who, in 1789, held a lease of Llanwnwr, Llanwnda, with his wife Dorothy and children Thomas and Mary. Thomas Batine of Llanwnwr, Llanwnda married Elizabeth Williams and named one of his daughter Bridget. On that very slender clue I rest my case. If Mary Andrew was the child of William Andrews and Mary Moor/e ....then that's another story! Pat, have you any more interesting Andrew wills...they may clear up a few relationships....and do you already have the prior Andrew marriages in this parish? Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. --- Original Message ----- From: "victor & pat" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] CRYMES > Just to add a bit to the 'Crymes' story. > From the will of Francis Andrew of Thornton, County of Pembroke, Gentleman, > made on 22 November 1788 and probated 8 January 1794................... > > '......My dwelling house called Ven together with the outhouses, fold, > haggards and gardens and fields called Warey Park; Upper Great Park; Croft; > part of Old Meadow; Lower Great Park; Long Park and hill under it and > Churchey Meadow subject to the payment of an annual rent of One Pound, > Sixteen Shillings and Eight Pence Payable yearly to his Grace the Duke of > Leeds - to my niece Ann Havard, spinster and the heirs of her body lawfully > issuing and for want of such issue, to her brother, my nephew Thomas Havard > [my 3x great grandfather] and his issue and for want of such issue to my > step daughter Mary, wife of John Crymes Esquire.' > > (The Andrew family home was Thornton House in Steynton.) > Does Ven still exist? > > Pat Dougan > Belfast > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Virginia Edwards" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:44 AM > Subject: [WLS-PEM] CRYMES > > > > I am interested in contacting someone with knowledge of the Crymes family > in Pembrokeshire. > > > > Virginia > > > > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > > > > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Pembrokeshire Archives > email [email protected] > >

Hi Wayne Further info. on your George family, John George. Buried 26th November 1889 or 1890 aged 59, died at 4 Margaret Street Trecynon Margaret, his wife, buried 25th April 1895. Burial at Aberdare cemetery. Plot X 1/9 consecrated. ***** Mary George,wife of Thomas, died at 11 Mt Pleasant Street Trecynon aged 21 years, buried on 29th March 1890 at Aberdare cemetery. Plot J 22/8 unconsecrated. In the same grave are buried ; Mary Daisy James aged 79. Buried 7 July 1969. David Llewellyn James aged 86. Buried 19 Oct. 1972. Ann Cousins ( cremated remains ) aged 79. 17 Oct. 1995. ************ On the 1881 census a Rachel George, aged 21 years ,was a servant at 11 Hirwaun Road Trecynon. This was the home of my gt. gt .aunt Gwenllian Davies and her husband. My gt. grandfather, John Powell, was also living there. Best wishes Graham

Hi everyone, I just looked at the 1871 census for William Woodcok (aka Woodcock) and have concluded that he and his wife indeed are the couple in the 1841 and 1851 census where their name has been transcribed as 'Woolcock'. It is possible that over time they changed their name. If you happen to be able to locate the 1841 and 51 census easily and can e-mail it to me, I'd appreciate it - I'd love to see them. But I'm actually writing for the 1861 census. I would really appreciate an 1861 census lookup for William and Lettice Woolcock/Woodcock/Woodcok/Woocock William would be 60 and Lettice 64. Here is what I believe are their other census records. If you can add anything to this info, I would appreciate it. I haven't seen the actual 1841 or 1851 census. I have the 1871. They both died before the 1881 census and I've tracked their grandson Joseph to 1891. We also have a letter and photographs from Joseph. 1841 Census Steynton Greenhill William Woolcock 40 ag. lab. Lettice 45 James 13 Mary 11 Celia 9 Thomas 7 Lettice 4 Jane 9 months 1851 Census Steynton William Woolcock 50 b. Rudbaxton Lettice 54 b. Moat Sarah 25 b. Steynton Thomas Woolcock 17 b. Haverfordwest St. Thomas (sisters son) - not sure about this Lettice 14 b. Steynton William 3 b. Steynton grandson 1871 Census Steynton address 28 Dreen Hill William Woodcok 70 ag. lab. St. Brides Pembrokeshire Lettice 74 Moat Pembrokeshire Joseph 12 grandson Swansea Glamorgan I noticed the similarity between the Greenhill (1841) and Dreen Hill (1871) and wonder if one of these is a mistake. Any help would be appreciated. But I'm particularly interested in the 1861 census for William and Lettice at this point. It may answer some other questions. If you are related to this family, I would like to hear from you. Thanks so much. Debbie --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online

Dear Virginia, Gerry, Rose etc., Is a veil of Welsh mist lifting or am I more confused than usual? Following Gerry's message, which gives the RN Captain John Crymes, son of the Devon born Rev. Amos Crymes, living in Steynton from the start ot the 1800's...there is a marriage in the pre-1813 Rhos Hundred for a John Crymes and Mary Andrews in 1788 at Steynton. A touch of intrigue, Rose, when I looked to see if there were entries for the surname Andrews as well as Andrew in the female records...just to check for myself that I'd got it right....the very next entry to the one for the above marriage was one between Mary Andrews in 1780 at Steynton to William Feild.....one of yours! Is it the same Mary Andrews....or were they cousins? Did your William Feild die and his widow remarry, with her initial surname appearing in the records? An Amos Crymes left a Will in 1856...earlier Crymes did not appear to leave Wills via the St. David's Probate records....but their estates may have been administered.....I don't have the index sheets which might show that fact. Bettye Kirkwood. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] CRYMES > on 3/2/04 1:44 am, Virginia Edwards at [email protected] wrote: > > > I am interested in contacting someone with knowledge of the Crymes family in > > Pembrokeshire. > > > > Virginia > > > > Hello Virginia > > In my database of the 1891 census of west Pembrokeshire there is just one > CRYMES. > > She was Mary Anne Crymes aged 61, single, born Haverfordwest. She was living > with her sister Emlin [Emmelin] Stokes aged 62 and her husband Antony Bowen > Owen Stokes. He was described as a landed proprietor and they lived at St > Botolphs [House] in Steynton. he was a Lieutenant Colonel, who later became > Chief Constable of Pembrokeshire according to "Historic Pembrokeshire Houses > and their Families" > > That book also states that the Crymes family lived at Thornton House, > Steynton. Captain John Crymes RN lived there at the start of 19th Century. > He was the son of Rev. Amos Crymes of Buckland Monachorum, Devon. The > Captain had a son Rev. Amos Crymes (d. 1856), a son John who was also a > naval officer and a daughter (his eldest) called Mary Anne who married a > solicitor, Morgan Rice James. Another daughter Elizabeth died unmarried and > another, Louisa, married James Summers, solicitor and County Treasurer. > > The entry is rather confusing as it says Emmelin died aged 22, but I have > her aged 62 in 1891 and implies that Antony Bowen Owen Stokes was not living > at St.Botolphs in the late 1880's. And when did Mary Ann marry her > solicitor? Most confusing - this needs a bit more research. It would appear > that there were two Mary Anns (see below) > > These were Crymes baptisms between 1837 and 1899 in the Rhos Hundred: > > Edward 1838 St.Ishmaels > Emma Jane 1855 Hubberston > Hester 1844 Hubberston > Joseph Henry 1860 Hubberston > Mary Jane 1838 St.Ishmaels > > and between 1813 and 1837: > > Anne 1835 St.Ishmaels > Charles 1831 St.Ishmaels > Elizabeth 1831 St.Ishmaels > Emlin 1830 Steynton > James 1836 St.Ishmaels > John 1828 Steynton > Joseph 1837 St.Ishmaels > Mary Anne Eliza 1830 Steynton > > But the families were living in Haverfordwest in 1841: > > HO107/1450/2A, Haverfordwest St Mary, folio 12, page 18 > Amos Crymes, 40 [to 44?], Clergyman > Emlin Crymes, 12 > Mary Crymes, 10 > Mary Crymes, 39 > > HO107/1449/17 or 1450/1, Haverfordwest St Martin, folio 29A, page 15 > Elizabeth Crymes, 45 [to 49], Ind. > Mary Crymes, 75 [to 79], Ind. > > and in 1851: > > Hill Street, Haverfordwest St.Thomas > Amos Crymes, head, 54, Perpetual Curate of St Martin, born Steynton > Mary Ann Crymes, wife, 54, born Hubberston > John Crymes, son, 23, born Steynton > > High Street, Haverfordwest St Mary > > Morgan R. James, head, 59, Attorney, born Narberth > Mary A. James, wife, 60, born Steynton > John C. James, son, 30, Attorney, born Haverfordwest > Elizabeth R. James, daughter, 27, born Haverfordwest > Margaret James, daughter, 24, born Haverfordwest > William V. James, son, 23, Attorney's Articled Clerk, born Haverfordwest > James James, son, 22, born Haverfordwest > Rebecca James, relation, 64, born Haverfordwest > Elizabeth Crymes, relation, 59, born Herbrandston > > and next door appear to be more relatives of the James family (which may or > may not be relevant): > Mary Ann Owen, head, widow, 32, Landed Proprietor, born Haverfordwest > Mary J.H. Owen, daughter, 8, born Moylgrove > Morris W.Ll. Owen, son, 7, scholar at home, born Moylgrove > Frances l.W. Owen, daughter, 5, scholar at home, born Moylgrove > Emlin M.Ll. Owen, daughter, 4, scholar at home, born Moylgrove > Emlin L.James, sister, u/m, 20, born Haverfordwest > > [Emlin seems to be a name cropping up a lot.] > > and further south > > HO107/2477, Hubberston, folio 158, page 12 (from an index) > Barbara Crymes, 51, born Marloes > George Crymes, 17, born St.Ishmaels > Hester Crymes, 6, born Hubberston > James Crymes, 10, born Hubberston > James Crymes, 43, born St.Ishmaels > Joseph Crymes, 14, born St.Ishmaels > > HO107/2477, Steynton, folio 33, page 1 > Mary Ann Crymes, 20, born Thornton [Steynton parish] (this is the one in the > 1891 census). > > This all needs careful scrutiny to extract the relevant information! > > Gerry Lewis > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html >

Hi All, A bit more on the Andrew family. I have just looked up my records and, yes Bettye the two MARY ANDREWs who married at Steynton in 1780 were indeed 1st cousins. The Mary Andrew who married Francis Andrew was a widow but it is not known what her maiden name was. I suppose it is possible that she had previously been married to another ANDREW maybe a brother of Francis? My nextdoor neighbour married her first husband who died then she married his brother! So it does happen. Rose

Hi Bettye, nice to hear from you again. No, they are not the same Mary Andrew. My Mary married William Feild of Burton at Steynton on 1 June 1780. Mary died in 1829 and William in 1827. Shere coincidence but the are probably related as my Mary was a descendant of Ffrancis Andrew of Thornton too. Bye for now, Rose

Hello Pat, I am also researching my Andrew family of Thornton. Mary Andrew married William Feild of Burton in 1780 at Steynton. Mary Andrew's father was John Andrew and her mother was Anne Ferrior. John Andrew farmed at Old Hays and Mount Misery at Steynton. He was the son of yet another John Andrew of Woodston and Priory also at Steynton. This John Andrew was a son of Ffrancis Andrew of Thornton and Margaret Smyth. Do you have any connection with this line? Rose

To Graham Powell and Janetann Davies Thanks both of you for helping me to learn about the early life and times of my great grandmother, Catherine GEORGE PHILLIPS. I could use what I've learned about Catherine's siblings to obtain their Marriage Certificates and find out where they lived and what did for a living. John and Catherine GEORGE PHILLIPS followed John's parents, James and Sarah DAVIES PHILLIPS to Pennsylvania where they resumed mining coal in Luzerne County. We are damp in Virginia -- not wet. Daytime temps are in the 40s. At night it goes below freezing. It was dry and sunny today but rain is predicted for Thursday night and all day Friday. Thanks again, -- Wayne E. Phillips Chester, VA 23836 [email protected]

Hello All Here's a bit of trivia concerning the 1891 census of Pembrokeshire. I've just found a fourth person with a Christian name Christmas. He has a brother named Ascension which must be quite unusual. For the Morse fans amongst you I haven't found an Endeavour yet. Gerry Lewis

Just to add a bit to the 'Crymes' story. From the will of Francis Andrew of Thornton, County of Pembroke, Gentleman, made on 22 November 1788 and probated 8 January 1794................... '......My dwelling house called Ven together with the outhouses, fold, haggards and gardens and fields called Warey Park; Upper Great Park; Croft; part of Old Meadow; Lower Great Park; Long Park and hill under it and Churchey Meadow subject to the payment of an annual rent of One Pound, Sixteen Shillings and Eight Pence Payable yearly to his Grace the Duke of Leeds - to my niece Ann Havard, spinster and the heirs of her body lawfully issuing and for want of such issue, to her brother, my nephew Thomas Havard [my 3x great grandfather] and his issue and for want of such issue to my step daughter Mary, wife of John Crymes Esquire.' (The Andrew family home was Thornton House in Steynton.) Does Ven still exist? Pat Dougan Belfast ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Edwards" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:44 AM Subject: [WLS-PEM] CRYMES > I am interested in contacting someone with knowledge of the Crymes family in Pembrokeshire. > > Virginia > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html >

on 3/2/04 1:44 am, Virginia Edwards at [email protected] wrote: > I am interested in contacting someone with knowledge of the Crymes family in > Pembrokeshire. > > Virginia > Hello Virginia In my database of the 1891 census of west Pembrokeshire there is just one CRYMES. She was Mary Anne Crymes aged 61, single, born Haverfordwest. She was living with her sister Emlin [Emmelin] Stokes aged 62 and her husband Antony Bowen Owen Stokes. He was described as a landed proprietor and they lived at St Botolphs [House] in Steynton. he was a Lieutenant Colonel, who later became Chief Constable of Pembrokeshire according to "Historic Pembrokeshire Houses and their Families" That book also states that the Crymes family lived at Thornton House, Steynton. Captain John Crymes RN lived there at the start of 19th Century. He was the son of Rev. Amos Crymes of Buckland Monachorum, Devon. The Captain had a son Rev. Amos Crymes (d. 1856), a son John who was also a naval officer and a daughter (his eldest) called Mary Anne who married a solicitor, Morgan Rice James. Another daughter Elizabeth died unmarried and another, Louisa, married James Summers, solicitor and County Treasurer. The entry is rather confusing as it says Emmelin died aged 22, but I have her aged 62 in 1891 and implies that Antony Bowen Owen Stokes was not living at St.Botolphs in the late 1880's. And when did Mary Ann marry her solicitor? Most confusing - this needs a bit more research. It would appear that there were two Mary Anns (see below) These were Crymes baptisms between 1837 and 1899 in the Rhos Hundred: Edward 1838 St.Ishmaels Emma Jane 1855 Hubberston Hester 1844 Hubberston Joseph Henry 1860 Hubberston Mary Jane 1838 St.Ishmaels and between 1813 and 1837: Anne 1835 St.Ishmaels Charles 1831 St.Ishmaels Elizabeth 1831 St.Ishmaels Emlin 1830 Steynton James 1836 St.Ishmaels John 1828 Steynton Joseph 1837 St.Ishmaels Mary Anne Eliza 1830 Steynton But the families were living in Haverfordwest in 1841: HO107/1450/2A, Haverfordwest St Mary, folio 12, page 18 Amos Crymes, 40 [to 44?], Clergyman Emlin Crymes, 12 Mary Crymes, 10 Mary Crymes, 39 HO107/1449/17 or 1450/1, Haverfordwest St Martin, folio 29A, page 15 Elizabeth Crymes, 45 [to 49], Ind. Mary Crymes, 75 [to 79], Ind. and in 1851: Hill Street, Haverfordwest St.Thomas Amos Crymes, head, 54, Perpetual Curate of St Martin, born Steynton Mary Ann Crymes, wife, 54, born Hubberston John Crymes, son, 23, born Steynton High Street, Haverfordwest St Mary Morgan R. James, head, 59, Attorney, born Narberth Mary A. James, wife, 60, born Steynton John C. James, son, 30, Attorney, born Haverfordwest Elizabeth R. James, daughter, 27, born Haverfordwest Margaret James, daughter, 24, born Haverfordwest William V. James, son, 23, Attorney's Articled Clerk, born Haverfordwest James James, son, 22, born Haverfordwest Rebecca James, relation, 64, born Haverfordwest Elizabeth Crymes, relation, 59, born Herbrandston and next door appear to be more relatives of the James family (which may or may not be relevant): Mary Ann Owen, head, widow, 32, Landed Proprietor, born Haverfordwest Mary J.H. Owen, daughter, 8, born Moylgrove Morris W.Ll. Owen, son, 7, scholar at home, born Moylgrove Frances l.W. Owen, daughter, 5, scholar at home, born Moylgrove Emlin M.Ll. Owen, daughter, 4, scholar at home, born Moylgrove Emlin L.James, sister, u/m, 20, born Haverfordwest [Emlin seems to be a name cropping up a lot.] and further south HO107/2477, Hubberston, folio 158, page 12 (from an index) Barbara Crymes, 51, born Marloes George Crymes, 17, born St.Ishmaels Hester Crymes, 6, born Hubberston James Crymes, 10, born Hubberston James Crymes, 43, born St.Ishmaels Joseph Crymes, 14, born St.Ishmaels HO107/2477, Steynton, folio 33, page 1 Mary Ann Crymes, 20, born Thornton [Steynton parish] (this is the one in the 1891 census). This all needs careful scrutiny to extract the relevant information! Gerry Lewis

on 3/2/04 12:24 pm, marlena payne at [email protected] wrote: > Hi Bill, Bettye, > I am well pleased with the progress I have made many thanks to you both. I > have filed all the information that you both have given me with the rest of my > files they are and will be very useful. I think there is a good chance that > Sophia from Haycastle is me girlie and Thomas Morgan's occupation stated on > the wedding certificate as agricultural labourer ties in nicely. I think my > Thomas Howell is a bit of a ?. A gentleman was kind enough to do a look up for > me in 2002 and could not find no suitable Thomas Howell on the 1851 census for > the districts of Granston, Haycastle, St Davids or Fishguard Districts, and by > 1891 Census there where no trace of this whole family at Treylls y Cnwc, or on > the Databasefor the area. That ties in with the only conversation I had with > my Grandfather about his family ( he told me his Mother died in childbirth and > he was looked after by ???? very vague ) I thought that he might have been > illegitimate, not that I would have cared, and to have n! > ow found out his Mothers name its the icing on the top. I will re-check the > Death Registers to see if she died giving birth to my Grandfather ? in 1885 > and before 1891. I also came up with the following on the 1901 Census I found > these three little beauties. > > David Howells aged 24 Never Pembrokeshire Clingy ? Collier > William Howells aged 23 St Brides Pembrokeshire Marlow's Farm > Servant > James Howells aged 15 Brady Pembrokeshire Brady Cater/Farm > > I keep these on file, the names are the same, the ages would be correct for > 1901 but the place names are out of context. I hope I have not bored you both > and our Mailing List Friends, Many thanks Marlena. Hello Marlena Here's James with his family in 1891: Scarbro, Brawdy William Howells, head, 30, Agricultural Labourer, born Llanrhian, spoke Welsh Lettice Howells, wife, 31, born Gwyndy [ Whitchurch parish], spoke Welsh Martha Howells, daughter, 8, scholar, born Brawdy - Scarborough, spoke Welsh James Howells, son, 5, scholar, born Brawdy - Scarborough, spoke Welsh Richard Howells, son, 7mo., born Brawdy - Scarborough William (14, born Marloes) appears to be working at the Cotts, Hasguard in 1891, but there is a William T. Howells, aged 12, born St Brides, living with his family at Old Winterton, Marloes. I have not yet transcribed Nevern. Is the first named place on your list the place of residence or birth place? Gerry Lewis