Many thanks to John, Emyr and Gerry for letting me know about these places. It seems I will have to include this part of Wales in my trip later this year. Best wishes Victoria

> >interests Robert Roberts and Hannah Roberts( died 1893 and 1894) and family= > moved from Pembrokeshire to Flint but Gomer and Fanny returned as did Rev = >Jessie Roberts. >Hopkin, William who moved to Leicestershire end of 1800 start of 1900 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------- >>>Denne eposten er sendt med epost.no WebMail. >>>Norges beste gratis epost-tjeneste med >>>spam-kontroll og virus-sjekk. >>> >>>Registrer 'dittnavn'@epost.no du ogs=E5. >>>http://www.epost.no/signup/newUser.html >>> >>>Denne eposten er skannet og funnet fri for virus >>>av Epost.no med Declude og FRISK F-Prot Software. >>> >>> >>Denne eposten er skannet og funnet fri for virus >>av Epost.no med Declude og FRISK F-Prot Software. >> >> > > > > > >-------------------------------------------- >Denne eposten er sendt med epost.no WebMail. >Norges beste gratis epost-tjeneste med >spam-kontroll og virus-sjekk. > >Registrer 'dittnavn'@epost.no du ogs=E5. >http://www.epost.no/signup/newUser.html > >Denne eposten er skannet og funnet fri for virus >av Epost.no med Declude og FRISK F-Prot Software. > > -------------------------------------------- Denne eposten er sendt med epost.no WebMail. Norges beste gratis epost-tjeneste med spam-kontroll og virus-sjekk. Registrer 'dittnavn'@epost.no du også. http://www.epost.no/signup/newUser.html Denne eposten er skannet og funnet fri for virus av Epost.no med Declude og FRISK F-Prot Software.

Red herrings or not, good to see my Genuki extracts providing two out of four hits ! :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Kelly" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Llanfarchan > Thank you very much indeed, Pat, for the additional information on the > Llanmarchan near Carningli discovered by John and Sylvia. > > A Google search for Llanvechan revealed one in Ceredigion > (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Sheriffs.html), one in Clwyd, Powys > (http://www.chapelbooks.co.uk/html/montgomery.htm), and one in Merioneth > (http://www.rootsweb.com/~engchs/prisoners1808.html). However, whilst I can > accept that "Llanmarchan" might have been spelled "Llanvechan" in the 1583 > rental, the name Llanvechan itself seems to be straying rather far from > Marchan, so perhaps the three Llanvechans just mentioned are something of a > red herring. Nevertheless, the spelling "Nantmarchan" in Nicholas fitz > Martin's charter (which I found at > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/Newport.html) seems a reasonable > confirmation of an original connection with Marchan (saint or river). > > Once again, many thanks, and a happy St. David's Day (or evening) to > everyone. > > Best regards, > > Jean Kelly > > PS If anyone finds any other > Llanmarchans/Llanfarchans/Nantfarchans/Cefnfarchans lurking in the > landscape, please let me know! > > > > ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== > National Library of Wales > http://www.llgc.org.uk/ > >

Thank you very much indeed, Pat, for the additional information on the Llanmarchan near Carningli discovered by John and Sylvia. A Google search for Llanvechan revealed one in Ceredigion (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Sheriffs.html), one in Clwyd, Powys (http://www.chapelbooks.co.uk/html/montgomery.htm), and one in Merioneth (http://www.rootsweb.com/~engchs/prisoners1808.html). However, whilst I can accept that "Llanmarchan" might have been spelled "Llanvechan" in the 1583 rental, the name Llanvechan itself seems to be straying rather far from Marchan, so perhaps the three Llanvechans just mentioned are something of a red herring. Nevertheless, the spelling "Nantmarchan" in Nicholas fitz Martin's charter (which I found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/Newport.html) seems a reasonable confirmation of an original connection with Marchan (saint or river). Once again, many thanks, and a happy St. David's Day (or evening) to everyone. Best regards, Jean Kelly PS If anyone finds any other Llanmarchans/Llanfarchans/Nantfarchans/Cefnfarchans lurking in the landscape, please let me know!

Hello everyone, I recently received a marriage certificate for the above 2 parties. William Henry was from Mansel Street, Orange Gardens, Pembroke. I would like to find out more about the area that Elizabeth came from. Her residence at the time of marriage is Yerbeston Lane, Maiden Wells, Pembroke. Also I would like to find out more about the church they were married in which was the Gilead Chapel, Maiden Wells. According to the Genuki Wales page this is a non-conformist Chapel of the Calvinistic Methodists (1846). Would that be the year it was built? Where would I find their records? Does it still exist today? I would hope that Elizabeth Ann may have been baptized there in 1882. Her father's name was William Cray and he was a labourer at the time she was married. Also if anyone on the list is looking for either of these two families I would be happy to hear from you. Thanks for your input, Libby Clarke Bracebridge, ON Canada --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 25/02/2004

Hello Jean,Sylvia & all After reading your information Sylvia - I had a look at my book "The Extent of Cemais, 1594" Pembrokeshire Records Series 3 For those who are interested here are the extracts that mention Llanmarchan. Rents of assize of the free tenants there:-..... The land of Thomas ap Owen James,gent at Llanmarchan in the tenure of Llewelin Philipe Gwyn - 1d The land of the aforesaid James perrott in Llanmarchan where Jevan ap Hoell Goch lives. he pays yearly 1d. The land of Thomas ap Owen James , late in the tenure of Thomas Richard, at Llanmarchan where Robert ap Hoell lives. He pays yearly 1d. The land of Cicely, daughter of James Morris, esq for 3 tenements at Llannarchan aforesaid late in the tenure of Philip Gwyn and now in the tenure of jevan Philipe Gwyn - 4d. A note states:- It was named Llanvechan in the 1583 rental and Nantmarchan in the charter granted by Nicholas fitz Martin to the burgesses of Newport This supports your explanation re "nant" Sylvia. Cheers Pat In message <[email protected]>, S Birch <[email protected]> writes >Hi Jean > >Taken from B G Charles Place Names of Pembrokeshire > >Llanmerchan/Llanmarchan >A fee in the barony of Cemais which takes its name from a lost river name >Marchan, the stream which now forms the boundary between the Parishes of >Llanychllwydog and Newport in Cwm Collen. It means the Valley of Marchan. >The substitution for (Llan, church )for Nant often occurs, in this case >perhaps helped by the fact that here apparently was once a chapel or llan >called Capel Llanmerchan, probably the capella connected with Llanychllwydog >in 1291 Tax. > >Hope this helps >Sylvia > >______________________________ -- Pat Powell

What a real delight it is for me as list admin to see the combined list effort moving us from 'never heard of it' to 'here it is' with exact map co-ordinates ! Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Llanfarchan Dear Jean, Based on Sylvia Birch's excellent detective work, I've been able to locate "Llan-merch-Ann" at co-ordinates 204300,235000 on the highly detailed 1:10,560-scale Ordnance Survey map, published in 1891 and accessible on the Old Maps website. "Llan-merch-ann" is about 2½ miles SSW of Newport (PEM) in the parish of Llanychlwydog. The Old Maps website is at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ On the main page, select the "Co-ordinates" option in the search facility (near top left of the page). In the search field enter the co-ordinates 204300,235000 (without any spaces) and click the Search button. When the small map appears, click on the "Enlarged view" button below the map. A highly detailed large map of the area will open in a new window, centred on Llan-merch-ann. You can save the enlarged view map to your hard disc by clicking on the map with your right mouse button and selecting the "Save Picture As..." option in the menu which appears. Note that the first line of Sylvia's transcription from B. G. Charles's "Place Names of Pembrokeshire", should probably commence: "A see in the barony of Cemais....." rather than, "A fee in the barony of Cemais....". Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "S Birch" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Llanfarchan Hi Jean Taken from B G Charles Place Names of Pembrokeshire Llanmerchan/Llanmarchan A fee in the barony of Cemais which takes its name from a lost river name Marchan, the stream which now forms the boundary between the Parishes of Llanychllwydog and Newport in Cwm Collen. It means the Valley of Marchan. The substitution for (Llan, church )for Nant often occurs, in this case perhaps helped by the fact that here apparently was once a chapel or llan called Capel Llanmerchan, probably the capella connected with Llanychllwydog in 1291 Tax. Hope this helps Sylvia ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== Pembrokeshire Archives email [email protected] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== National Library of Wales http://www.llgc.org.uk/

Dear Jean, Based on Sylvia Birch's excellent detective work, I've been able to locate "Llan-merch-Ann" at co-ordinates 204300,235000 on the highly detailed 1:10,560-scale Ordnance Survey map, published in 1891 and accessible on the Old Maps website. "Llan-merch-ann" is about 2½ miles SSW of Newport (PEM) in the parish of Llanychlwydog. The Old Maps website is at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ On the main page, select the "Co-ordinates" option in the search facility (near top left of the page). In the search field enter the co-ordinates 204300,235000 (without any spaces) and click the Search button. When the small map appears, click on the "Enlarged view" button below the map. A highly detailed large map of the area will open in a new window, centred on Llan-merch-ann. You can save the enlarged view map to your hard disc by clicking on the map with your right mouse button and selecting the "Save Picture As..." option in the menu which appears. Note that the first line of Sylvia's transcription from B. G. Charles's "Place Names of Pembrokeshire", should probably commence: "A see in the barony of Cemais....." rather than, "A fee in the barony of Cemais....". Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "S Birch" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Llanfarchan Hi Jean Taken from B G Charles Place Names of Pembrokeshire Llanmerchan/Llanmarchan A fee in the barony of Cemais which takes its name from a lost river name Marchan, the stream which now forms the boundary between the Parishes of Llanychllwydog and Newport in Cwm Collen. It means the Valley of Marchan. The substitution for (Llan, church )for Nant often occurs, in this case perhaps helped by the fact that here apparently was once a chapel or llan called Capel Llanmerchan, probably the capella connected with Llanychllwydog in 1291 Tax. Hope this helps Sylvia ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== Pembrokeshire Archives email [email protected] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004

Hi Jean Taken from B G Charles Place Names of Pembrokeshire Llanmerchan/Llanmarchan A fee in the barony of Cemais which takes its name from a lost river name Marchan, the stream which now forms the boundary between the Parishes of Llanychllwydog and Newport in Cwm Collen. It means the Valley of Marchan. The substitution for (Llan, church )for Nant often occurs, in this case perhaps helped by the fact that here apparently was once a chapel or llan called Capel Llanmerchan, probably the capella connected with Llanychllwydog in 1291 Tax. Hope this helps Sylvia

I have failed to find reference to this particular saint in a multitude of sites dealing with Welsh saints but to add a little to what JB has found. The book 'Pembrokeshire' by Brian John has these general references in a chapter on Celtic saints; <Missionary activities probably began c 450 <network of religious cells...............small churches established in remote locailities, particularly common in Pembrokeshire. <seldom became nuclei for later settlements <small churches with Celtic dedications can still be seen around the wild rocky coastline, standing against the elements in splendid isolation <Typical of coastal chapels of this time were those at St Justinian's, St Non's, Cwm-yr-Egwlys and St Dogmael's. Many have disappeared, others stand in ruins or have been replaced by later buildings. None of which helps with Llanfarchan unfortunately ! I've suggested Jean ask Pem Archives. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-PEM] Llanfarchan > > > Breverton (2000) includes the following entry for St Marchan (on page 388): > --------------- > MARCHAN 6th century > May 21 [saint's day] > There was a pilgimage chapel called Llanmarchan in Pembroke for this saint, > who had a vision of the dying Brioc being carried away by angels. > --------------- >

Jean Kelly <[email protected]> wrote: Doble, G.H. (1928), "St. Brioc" (Cornish Saints): 44, mentions a place somewhere in Pembroke called "Llanfarchan", possibly connected with a saint by the name of Marcan; however, he gives no details of its whereabouts. Web searches have so far failed to unearth any sign of the elusive Llanfarchan. I suspect that it might have been no more than a hamlet, perhaps obliterated by modern development and/or renamed. ============== Dear Jean, Breverton (2000) includes the following entry for St Marchan (on page 388): --------------- MARCHAN 6th century May 21 [saint's day] There was a pilgimage chapel called Llanmarchan in Pembroke for this saint, who had a vision of the dying Brioc being carried away by angels. --------------- [Source: "The Book of Welsh Saints" by T. D. Breverton, published 2000 by Glyndwr Publishing, Cowbridge, Glamorgan. ISBN 1-903529-01-8] Unfortunately Breverton does not state where in Pembrokeshire the chapel was (is?) situated. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004

on 28/2/04 8:41 am, Victoria Wisternoff at [email protected] wrote: > I would like to know if Johnston Hall in Johnston and Fern Hill in > Harroldston St Issels still exist? > > I have found family living there in the 19th century - CARROWs in > Johnston Hall and VAUGHANs at Fern Hill. I would also like to know if > any pictures exist of these places. > > Thanks for any assistance. > Regards > Victoria > Christchurch NZ Hello Victoria Further to John's reply, Fern Hill is marked on the 1:25,000 scale map - it's in Haroldston St Issels parish and overlooks a bend in the Western Cleddau river and is 2 to 3 miles south east of Haverfordwest. Gerry Lewis

I would like to know if Johnston Hall in Johnston and Fern Hill in Harroldston St Issels still exist? I have found family living there in the 19th century - CARROWs in Johnston Hall and VAUGHANs at Fern Hill. I would also like to know if any pictures exist of these places. Thanks for any assistance. Regards Victoria Christchurch NZ

Hi Jean If you search google on Saint Marcan it comes up with over 16,000 hits, all probably relating to the same place in Brittany, France. I wonder if there is a clue in the fact that it is next to St Malo which is very near to *St Briac* on the north Brittany coast. (You refer to St Brioc as a Cornish saint). I'm also thinking of the Celtic link between Brittany, Cornwall and Wales. But I haven't been able to sort out a specific Pem connection. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Kelly" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:21 PM Subject: [WLS-PEM] Llanfarchan I don't know if anyone could possibly help with this query? Doble, G.H. (1928), "St. Brioc" (Cornish Saints): 44, mentions a place somewhere in Pembroke called "Llanfarchan", possibly connected with a saint by the name of Marcan; however, he gives no details of its whereabouts. Web searches have so far failed to unearth any sign of the elusive Llanfarchan. I suspect that it might have been no more than a hamlet, perhaps obliterated by modern development and/or renamed. I would much appreciate any assistance on this point. Jean Kelly ==== WLS-PEMBROKESHIRE Mailing List ==== Dyfed FHS http://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/

I don't know if anyone could possibly help with this query? Doble, G.H. (1928), “St. Brioc” (Cornish Saints): 44, mentions a place somewhere in Pembroke called "Llanfarchan", possibly connected with a saint by the name of Marcan; however, he gives no details of its whereabouts. Web searches have so far failed to unearth any sign of the elusive Llanfarchan. I suspect that it might have been no more than a hamlet, perhaps obliterated by modern development and/or renamed. I would much appreciate any assistance on this point. Jean Kelly

here are the details of the 1871 record Gerry for Martha and Thomas RG10/5528 Reg District Haverfordwest sub Reg " " Prendergast district 16 Folio 21 Page 9 Best wishes Ann D

Victoria Wisternoff <[email protected]> wrote: I would like to know if Johnston Hall in Johnston and Fern Hill in Harroldston St Issels still exist? I have found family living there in the 19th century - CARROWs in Johnston Hall and VAUGHANs at Fern Hill. I would also like to know if any pictures exist of these places. =================== Dear Victoria, The modern 1:25,000-scale Ordnance Survey 'Outdoor Leisure' map of South Pembrokeshire (sheet 36), published in 1995, identifies a 'Hall' in the village of Johnston (at co-ordinates 193300,210300) suggesting that the hall still exists. The 1:10,560-scale Ordnance Survey map published in 1868 (available at www.old-maps.co.uk/) confirms that this is what you refer to as Johnston Hall. The hall is less than 200 yards south of St Peter's Church in Johnston. The GENUKI website (at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Johnston/) offers the following information, extracted from "A Topographical Dictionary of Wales" (S. Lewis, 1833): ------quote begins------- Johnston Hall, an ancient mansion of the family of Edwards, and for a long time the residence of the late Lord Kensington, is now the property of the present lord, and is in the occupation of Thomas Bowen, Esq. -------quote ends--------- Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004

Hi Richard, Thanks for adding the Returns of Owners. Great resource! I'm wondering, being relatively new to researching in Wales, what do the 3 numbers showing the extent of land refer to? The one that interests me is: Thomas Woolcock: Haverfordwest 28 2 22 41 6 He could be the son of my William Woolcock/Woodcock, since William was quite old by that time and Thomas was the only son still living in Wales. How would you be able to tell if this was the Dreen Hill area or street? Thanks. Debbie From: Richard Hopkins To: [email protected] Subject: [WLS-PEM] 1873 Returns of Owners of Land Hi Listers I've put the 1873 Returns of Owners of Land for Wales and Monmouthshire online at: http://www.cefnpennar.com Regards The Ogre ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

Dear Ann, Pat and Debbie Thank you very much for your quick responses. I believe that this is the right family; 1861 census; Martha the mother circa 1809 Alice John - she has the same name as the witness at Mary Ann's wedding. Samuel was a brother and born circa 1851-1854 ( per the 1881 census and as a witness of Mary Ann's wedding, plus the details on his gravestone at Crundle cemetary) Mary Ann circa 1858 ( per 1881, 1891, 1901 censuses and her wedding cerificate and her gravestone in Crundle cemetary) Pat - I did not have any idea of Mary Ann's mother's name. 1851 census: Again there is the mother and daughter Sophie which ties in with the 1861 census. There is a son Thomas who was born circa 1841 - could he have been the father of the deaf/dumb son with the same name and born circa 1864? i will need to follow up on this. !871 census; Martha again and this time with the deaf/dumb grandson Thomas born circa 1864. Pat do you have the page number for the 1861 census data? Ann do you have the 1871 census data re folio,schedule and page number? I will order copies of the census data from Hwest records office. I have a copy of the 1891 census for Hubbertsone (near Milford haven ) and I should have got the next page as it might have shown me if Samul Mabe Johns and Thomas Lynn Johns were with Mary Ann and her family at that time. I was surprised to note that the father James Johns was not present in any of the censuses. I did try to find him under sherrifs /bailiffs etc under rootsweb site for Pembs., but to no avail. Perhaps he spent a lot of time on the road chasing criminals!! Once again so many thanks for providing me with another generation. Gerry Lewis-Steer, Calgary, Canada

Hi Listers I've put the 1873 Returns of Owners of Land for Wales and Monmouthshire online at: http://www.cefnpennar.com Regards The Ogre ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html