In a message dated 8/26/03 2:56:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: This was part of John Ball's email to me and the list and I do differ with him on this particular paragraph. His comment about the parish and county boundaries are clearly marked on a map is correct but when you drive a car in that area, they are not clearly marked. I drove all over that area and could not tell you which county I was in. My 75 year old cousin who was born in the area, told me one day that she never knows which county she is in - because the road goes in and out of them. It's all fine to do research with a map but it is a total different thing when you are driving a car. I hope she finds her ancestor but she does need to look at the census herself and then send it to someone who speaks Welsh or understands the Welsh language, or get the PRO number, folio, page etc and give it to someone on this list. I hope you are able to find your ancestors. Good luck. Annie. > Incidentally, the county and parish boundaries in the area are very > clearly defined on the electronic maps on the CDs accompanying Kain and > Oliver (2001). >

Annie Lloyd <Cardi2@aol.com> wrote [shortened version]: John Ball's [snip] comment about the parish and county boundaries are clearly marked on a map is correct but when you drive a car in that area, they are not clearly marked. [snip] I drove all over that area and could not tell you which county I was in. [snip] It's all fine to do research with a map but it is a total different thing when you are driving a car. [The full version of Annie's message is copied below] ======================== Dear Listers, If one relies only on roadside signboards to indicate the position of a county border, then I agree that one may not know in which county one is situated at any given moment. However, I maintain that map-reading is an essential skill for genealogists and that the maps need to be studied as part of one's preparation *before* exploring an area by car. One would then have no doubt where the pre-1974 county boundaries are situated. The post-1974 boundaries are largely irrelevant for genealogy purposes. As I made clear yesterday in an off-list message to Annie, the pre-1974 county borders in the Cenarth - Newcastle Emlyn area were defined by the course of the rivers Teifi and Cych which are clearly marked and identified by name on the modern Ordnance Survey Landranger map of the area (sheet 145). In order to clarify the county boundaries for everyone, I quote the relevant passage from my message to Annie about the county borders in the Newcastle Emlyn area: -------quote begins------- The pre-1974 border between Cardiganshire (in the north) and Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire (in the south) was defined by the river Teifi. Anything north of the river was in Cardiganshire. At Newcastle Emlyn, if you're on the south bank of the river you're in Carmarthenshire; if you're on the north bank you're in Cardiganshire. If you stand in the middle of the bridge with your legs apart you can have one foot in each county! The bridge carries the A475 over the Teifi. Similarly, at Cenarth, if you're on the south bank of the river you're in Carmarthenshire; if you're on the north bank you're in Cardiganshire. If you stand in the middle of the bridge with your legs apart you can again have one foot in each county. This bridge carries the A484 over the Teifi. On the B4332, about 1 mile west of Cenarth, one encounters the pre-1974 border between Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire. The border is defined by the river Cych, a tributary of the Teifi. East of the Cych is Carmarthenshire, west of the Cych is Pembrokeshire. There's a bridge at Penrhiw which carries the B4332 over the river Cych. If you stand in the middle of this bridge with your legs apart you can have one foot in Carmarthenshire and one in Pembrokeshire. Just north of Penrhiw, near Abercych, the Cych enters the Teifi and at this point the borders of the three counties meet together (CGN, CMN, and PEM). If you stand here you'll get very wet! :o) All the above boundaries and borders are clearly marked on pre-1974 Ordnance Survey maps of the area. I have sheet 139 from the Ordnance Survey "One-Inch" map series in front of me now. It was published in 1967. The Kain and Oliver maps I cited previously are based on Ordnance Survey maps of the 1940s, similar to the 1967 map which I have before me right now. There was no confusion about the county borders until 1974 when CGN, CMN, and PEM were merged and became the county of Dyfed. --------quote ends-------- As long as we do our homework beforehand, we should have no problems identifying where these county boundaries lie. Identifying parish boundaries is a different matter, but even they are usually defined by easily recognisable topographical feaures such as rivers and streams and ridges. It concerns me that a problem is being created where none exists, and that Listers new to Welsh genealogy may be misled into thinking that navigating one's way around Wales's network of roads and lanes is fraught with difficulties. I'm not saying that we don't all get lost sometimes, but in most cases getting lost is evidence of inadequate preparation for the trip. Obviously if one is driving, it helps to have a passenger acting as navigator. But even without a passenger, if one has the relevant maps easily accessible, perhaps accompanied by a few written notes about salient features of the landscape, one can drive around the countryside knowing exactly where one is --- well, nearly :o) Happy motoring! Kindest regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cardi2@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:03 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Re Boundaries in the area around Newcastle Emlyn In a message dated 8/26/03 2:56:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: This was part of John Ball's email to me and the list and I do differ with him on this particular paragraph. His comment about the parish and county boundaries are clearly marked on a map is correct but when you drive a car in that area, they are not clearly marked. I drove all over that area and could not tell you which county I was in. My 75 year old cousin who was born in the area, told me one day that she never knows which county she is in - because the road goes in and out of them. It's all fine to do research with a map but it is a total different thing when you are driving a car. I hope she finds her ancestor but she does need to look at the census herself and then send it to someone who speaks Welsh or understands the Welsh language, or get the PRO number, folio, page etc and give it to someone on this list. I hope you are able to find your ancestors. Good luck. Annie. > Incidentally, the county and parish boundaries in the area are very > clearly defined on the electronic maps on the CDs accompanying Kain and > Oliver (2001). > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Rootsweb list archives[ threaded] http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WLS-Cardiganshire-L/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 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