Hi Elsie I hope that someone else will jump in with some suggestions for you, perhaps when the New Year is out of the way. I have now had the chance to look back at our previous off list exchanges and can see little reason to change my final suggestion which was that you (or someone paid by you) needed to go through the Llanwenog parish registers for the period to get a picture of what possible baptisms may exist for your Thomas. Hang on to the fact that he indicated on several census returns that he was born in Llanwnog. Don't forget the possibility that they were dissenters. As a general comment I expect that other people have the same difficulty as I do, which is to convince myself that an indicated backward route via patronymic assumptions is 100% certain in the absence of some other supporting factors. Don't despair............ yet :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsie Isaac" <elisaac@msn.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Interest: ISAAC/JONES/EVANS A Happy and Prosperous New Year to all Listers!! Gareth suggested that I repost my interests with "facts" as I know them, so here is the little bit that I know as "fact". My GGGF, Thomas ISAAC married Ann JONES. Death Certificate: Ann ISAAC (nee JONES) died on 5/10/1843 at the age of 33 in Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil Lower, GLA. The death cert states "Wife of Thomas Isaac, Mason" (This is where they were living in the 1841 census) Thomas ISAAC then married Mary WATKINS. Marriage Certificate 17/8/1844: Thomas ISAAC, full age, Widower, Mason, Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil, Father: Isaac EVANS, Mason Mary WATKINS, full age, Spinster, Dowlais, Father: David WATKINS, Sawyer Death Certificate 28/5/1875 Thomas ISAACS, Male, 67 Years, Mason, 9 Tre Evans Rhymney, MON. Thomas ISAACS, Son in attendance. (This is where they were living in the 1871 census) The following information is NOT "fact", as I have found no actual proof: All the census returns from 1851-1871 state that Thomas ISAAC was born in Llanwenog, CGN sometime around 1807-1808. (This is confirmed by his age at death in 1875) The 1841 GLA census states that he was not born in Glamorgan. The 1841 GLA census listed Ann ISAAC (nee JONES) as being born around 1811. (Her age at death in 1843 was 33 years, making her birth 1809-1810. This was the only census she was alive for. The 1841 GLA census also stated that she was not born in Glamorgan. Information from Gareth, but not verified through the GRO: >According to the GlA FHS pre 1837 marriage index Thomas Isaac married Ann Jones, both of St Marys Swansea, in that parish, on 29 Nov 1832 (PBW)< I have not been able to find proof of birth of my Thomas ISAAC. I think I may be running into the name problem as his father is listed as Isaac EVANS. Thomas's son, my GGF, was named Herbert Lloyd ISAAC. I have found an Isaac EVANS married to Jane LLOYD in the IGI for Llanwenog, CGN. It appears that this information was submitted by a researcher. It lists (7) children for this couple, (2) of them being named Thomas EVANS, one in 1802 and the other in 1808. I would assume that maybe the first Thomas died in infancy. I would appreciate any help or suggestions that anyone would be willing to offer in trying to sort this mess out. Truthfully, I'm very happy to have gotten this far as I only knew who my Grandparents were a year ago. If anyone can connect to any of these people, I'd love to hear from you!! Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work - and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Gareth's Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html