Kathi, In the book I mentioned, "Calvinists Incorporated", this family is mentioned in the listing and it clearly states Anne was of "Rhyd-y-dorth". This pertains to the David Jones and wife Anne who emigrated in 1838 from Benglog, Llandeiniol. This lists children as: Mary, John D.W., David, Margaret and sister [presumably the sister of David] Ann. If "Anna" (nee Jerman?) is this David's wife, you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is (probably Cardiganshire). The children born in the 1830's wouldn't have fallen (within the IGI) under the presupposed patronymic system so would've been listed with the parents' proper surname. Have you purchased "Welsh Family History, A Guide to Research" (2nd edition, pub. 1998), Ed. by John & Sheila Rowlands, ISBN 1 86006 065 X, pub. by the Federation of Family History Societies and the authors? If you haven't, I *strongly* recommend you do. You can purchase it online from www.genealogybookshop.com This book explains the peculiarities of Welsh research, including the problems involved with the IGI for Wales. JERMAN is not equivalent to HERMAN -- no. From "The Surnames of Wales" (also by John & Sheila Rowlands: "JARMAN Jarman is a variant of German, from the Latin 'germanus', 'kinsman'. An older pronuciation of modern English '-er' is '-ar'....and the same name is found as Jermin, Jermyn/e. Examples of the latter are found in Pembrokeshire: Alson and John Jermyn are in Gumfreston (Pembrokeshire) in 1543; the name is found widely in Narberth hundred throughout 17C. In the eastern border counties, the name is also long-established: Giles Jerman, Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire, appears on a 1596 tax list (E.R. Morris, 1982) and the name spread in Montgomeryshire and Radnorshire. 1813-37: Found fairly widely across mid Wales and down into Monmouthshire. It is particularly prominent on the border between Montgomeryshire (Llanidloes 2%) and Radnorshire (Rhaeadr 0.7%)." So, actually, this gives you another angle since the name was also found in Pembrokeshire (Narberth hundred) if you don't find anything in Montgomeryshire. As for the names of the sons and looking for David's baptism, it would make sense for the first-born to have been named after his father so, going on that assumption (with nothing else to go on), you'd be looking for a baptism in the IGI of a David Jones, son of anyone with the first name John (i.e., John = Jones) and probably the surname Jones. You've got it for Anna -- Anna (Anne)DAVIES/DAVID, daughter of anyone with the first name of David but, hopefully, with the surname JERMAN (or variant). Have you found the baptisms in Wales for the 4 sons you've named? You really should locate those baptisms *and* the marriage entry of this couple before going on to look for the baptisms of David Jones and Anna Jerman. Any children born after July 1837 will have Anna's maiden name in the entry. Their marriage presumably took place prior to July 1837 so won't have their fathers' names but you'll now have something to look for if her surname really was JERMAN. Always work backward through available documentation and don't skip events. Believe me, I say that in all humility, having made every possible mistake known to researchers in my early days of this! Good luck. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> To: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > Julie, you have not "further confused me", you have given me the first > "a-ha" moment in a long time in this research!! Yes, of course I was aware > of the patronymic naming system, but I had not thought to apply it. > (Feeling a little foolish, but overwhelmingly excited about applying this to > the families I haven't been able to trace! > > The one family that a distanst cousin DID trace back to the farm "Benglog" > in Llanddeiniol in the early 1800's did not seem to be doing this when the > first "batch" of children were born, but they weren't born until 1833, so it > makes perfect sense! > > Additionally, you have explained it more clearly than anything I have read, > so THANK YOU!! > > Yes, I have wondered about that "Benjamin Franklin" part myself! If their > family was all in tact in the 1850 census of Gallia County, their first son > was John, and the second was David, third was Daniel and fourth was > Benjamin. So, if I understand what you have said, I should look first for > Anna Davies/Davis, right? Born to David Jerman/Jarman. > > Is Jarman?Jerman equivilent to our "Herman"? > > And the father of Benjamin and all was named David Jones, so I am to assume > I am looking for David Jones, son of John Jones? Or have I got that part > wrong? > > Sorry for so many questions! It's just that I am so excited about what this > might mean for breaking through a couple of my "brick walls > > Thanks, again, > Kathi > > > > >

Just to catch the list up on what I have already responded to Julie... The David Jones family she mentioned with the Rhyd-y-dorth connection is another one of my family lines. Yes, Rhyd-y-dorth IS a Cardiganshire place, but I have always believed it was the name of the farm, rather than a "town" or parish. I could be wrong in that. I haven't done much with the Evans line, yet, though others in the family have. I thank everyone who has responded to me with good advice. I ordered the Rowlands Book on Welsh Family History at Julie's suggestion, and it should arrive within a week or so. Now, a second question: I have read on the Cardiganshire Family History Society's website that there is a course offered every year for a week at the University in Aberystwyth on Researching Welsh Family History. I have tried to find information on their website, but I didn't see it listed. Does anyone know of this? I am thinking about planning a spiritual sabbatical in Wales (at least 5 years away) and this would be a really interesting thing to add to it, I think. Thanks, again. I'll let you all know if I find more, or need more help. Kathi Jenkins Elliott