Julie suggested <you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is (probably Cardiganshire). Rhyd is a ford, dorth is a loaf (mutated torth). More likely dorth should read borth (mutated porth), which is a doorway, port etc. Rhyd-y-borth sounds right and also vaguely familiar but I can't see it it on my maps of the Borth area in CGN . Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > Kathi, > > In the book I mentioned, "Calvinists Incorporated", this family is mentioned > in the listing and it clearly states Anne was of "Rhyd-y-dorth". This > pertains to the David Jones and wife Anne who emigrated in 1838 from > Benglog, Llandeiniol. This lists children as: Mary, John D.W., David, > Margaret and sister [presumably the sister of David] Ann. If "Anna" (nee > Jerman?) is this David's wife, you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is > (probably Cardiganshire). > > The children born in the 1830's wouldn't have fallen (within the IGI) under > the presupposed patronymic system so would've been listed with the parents' > proper surname. > > Have you purchased "Welsh Family History, A Guide to Research" (2nd edition, > pub. 1998), Ed. by John & Sheila Rowlands, ISBN 1 86006 065 X, pub. by the > Federation of Family History Societies and the authors? If you haven't, I > *strongly* recommend you do. You can purchase it online from > www.genealogybookshop.com > This book explains the peculiarities of Welsh research, including the > problems involved with the IGI for Wales. > > JERMAN is not equivalent to HERMAN -- no. > > From "The Surnames of Wales" (also by John & Sheila Rowlands: > > "JARMAN > Jarman is a variant of German, from the Latin 'germanus', 'kinsman'. An > older pronuciation of modern English '-er' is '-ar'....and the same name is > found as Jermin, Jermyn/e. Examples of the latter are found in > Pembrokeshire: Alson and John Jermyn are in Gumfreston (Pembrokeshire) in > 1543; the name is found widely in Narberth hundred throughout 17C. In the > eastern border counties, the name is also long-established: Giles Jerman, > Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire, appears on a 1596 tax list (E.R. Morris, 1982) > and the name spread in Montgomeryshire and Radnorshire. > 1813-37: Found fairly widely across mid Wales and down into Monmouthshire. > It is particularly prominent on the border between Montgomeryshire > (Llanidloes 2%) and Radnorshire (Rhaeadr 0.7%)." > > So, actually, this gives you another angle since the name was also found in > Pembrokeshire (Narberth hundred) if you don't find anything in > Montgomeryshire. > > As for the names of the sons and looking for David's baptism, it would make > sense for the first-born to have been named after his father so, going on > that assumption (with nothing else to go on), you'd be looking for a baptism > in the IGI of a David Jones, son of anyone with the first name John (i.e., > John = Jones) and probably the surname Jones. > > You've got it for Anna -- Anna (Anne)DAVIES/DAVID, daughter of anyone with > the first name of David but, hopefully, with the surname JERMAN (or > variant). > > Have you found the baptisms in Wales for the 4 sons you've named? You > really should locate those baptisms *and* the marriage entry of this couple > before going on to look for the baptisms of David Jones and Anna Jerman. > Any children born after July 1837 will have Anna's maiden name in the entry. > Their marriage presumably took place prior to July 1837 so won't have their > fathers' names but you'll now have something to look for if her surname > really was JERMAN. > > Always work backward through available documentation and don't skip events. > Believe me, I say that in all humility, having made every possible mistake > known to researchers in my early days of this! > > Good luck. > > Regards, > > Julie Preston > juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> > To: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > > > Julie, you have not "further confused me", you have given me the first > > "a-ha" moment in a long time in this research!! Yes, of course I was > aware > > of the patronymic naming system, but I had not thought to apply it. > > (Feeling a little foolish, but overwhelmingly excited about applying this > to > > the families I haven't been able to trace! > > > > The one family that a distanst cousin DID trace back to the farm "Benglog" > > in Llanddeiniol in the early 1800's did not seem to be doing this when > the > > first "batch" of children were born, but they weren't born until 1833, so > it > > makes perfect sense! > > > > Additionally, you have explained it more clearly than anything I have > read, > > so THANK YOU!! > > > > Yes, I have wondered about that "Benjamin Franklin" part myself! If their > > family was all in tact in the 1850 census of Gallia County, their first > son > > was John, and the second was David, third was Daniel and fourth was > > Benjamin. So, if I understand what you have said, I should look first for > > Anna Davies/Davis, right? Born to David Jerman/Jarman. > > > > Is Jarman?Jerman equivilent to our "Herman"? > > > > And the father of Benjamin and all was named David Jones, so I am to > assume > > I am looking for David Jones, son of John Jones? Or have I got that part > > wrong? > > > > Sorry for so many questions! It's just that I am so excited about what > this > > might mean for breaking through a couple of my "brick walls > > > > Thanks, again, > > Kathi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Dyfed FHS > http://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/ > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth" <gareth@tytwp.demon.co.uk> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > Julie suggested > <you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is > (probably Cardiganshire). Rhydydorth, Llanon, possibly? You can find it by typing Rhydydorth (or alternatively Rhyd-y-dorth) and then choosing the Address option (not the Place Name option) in the database at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ (It is not necessary to know the full address.) If you think it is the correct place, you can then go on to view on that same site (1) Rhydydorth on the Ordnance Survey map of 1891 (2) Rhydydorth on a modern map (3) Rhydydorth in a modern aerial view. Although the above site is officially about 19th century Ordnance Survey maps, you can actually use it for far more than that - including checking whether a particular address is still in use today. Personally, I very often find this is an easier way of checking today's postcodes than by using the official Royal Mail website at https://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/postcodefinder which then requires a registration procedure. AJ

Thanks Aidan, I guess that makes toast of my loaf theory :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aidan Jones" <acjj@clara.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy, Rhydydorth & maps, etc. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gareth" <gareth@tytwp.demon.co.uk> > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > > > Julie suggested > > <you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is > > (probably Cardiganshire). > > Rhydydorth, Llanon, possibly? > > You can find it by typing Rhydydorth (or alternatively Rhyd-y-dorth) > and then choosing the Address option (not the Place Name option) in the > database at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ (It is not necessary to know the > full address.) > > If you think it is the correct place, you can then go on to view on that > same site > > (1) Rhydydorth on the Ordnance Survey map of 1891 > (2) Rhydydorth on a modern map > (3) Rhydydorth in a modern aerial view. > > Although the above site is officially about 19th century Ordnance Survey > maps, you can actually use it for far more than that - including checking > whether a particular address is still in use today. > > Personally, I very often find this is an easier way of checking today's > postcodes than by using the official Royal Mail website at > > https://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/postcodefinder > > which then requires a registration procedure. > > AJ > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Rootsweb list archives[ threaded] > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WLS-Cardiganshire-L/ > >