In a message dated 8/25/03 2:02:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Hi: I'm very doubtful that Cerman is Cellan as I do research there and I have never seen it spelled that way. I'm more apt to think that it is Cenarth or possibly Cemais Hundred in PEM which isn't far from Penboyr. The county boundaries in that area are very tricky. Annie > Would appreciate ideas as to what these two unreadable CGN placenames > (from censuses) really are: > > "Penboyr" > > "Cernan" > >

I cannot provide scans of the originals as the information came to me from a volunteer looker-upper and I have not seen the originals in person; however, I have asked the volunteer to revisit the items to see if she can see: Abernant (thanks, Paul), Cellan, or Cenarth in the word, "Cernan". I also asked her to check if "Penboyr" was actually "Penbryn" which is in CGN according to oldmaps (as I mentioned before, a later census definitely said Cardigan was the birthplace). I'll post with her response when I receive it. Thanks for all the help. Jojo --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

Hi Jojo! As Juile and John have pointed out Penboyr is a definite parish in Carmarthenshire. "Cernan" is almost certainly a mis-hearing or mis-spelling but, knowing how far out the latter can sometimes be, I wonder whetehr it's worth considering "Abernant, some 8 miles from Penboyr (in Carmarthenshire). Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jojo Smith" <ojoj2100@yahoo.ca> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Unreadable CGN placenames on censuses > Would appreciate ideas as to what these two unreadable CGN placenames (from censuses) really are: > > "Penboyr" > > "Cernan" > > Thank you. Jojo > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cardiganshire FHS > http://www.cgnfhs.org.uk > >

Judy, In my previous message, copied below, please correct my mistyping of CGN (I put CDG). Also an afterthought about your suggestion Cenarth: Cenarth is in Carmarthenshire, not Cardiganshire, although admittedly it is right on the county border. Kind regards, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <wfha@clara.co.uk> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Re: Unreadable CGN names Dear Jojo, If you can scan the relevant parts of the original census images and send me the scans attached to an e-mail, I'll do my best to decipher the handwriting. Although it is in Carmarthenshire, Penboyr is only two miles from the Cardiganshire border. It's quite possible that the 1851 census enumerator made a mistake in interpreting the county name when transcribing the data from the census form into the enumerators logbook, especially if the householder had used an abbreviation. For example "Cards" could have been misread as "Carms". It's possible the householder didn't mention the county name at all, in which case one is relying on a census enumerator in Monmuuthshire being familiar with the geography of CDG and CMN. I agree that Cenarth is another possibility for "Cernan" --- but without seeing the original handwriting it is difficult to make a firm judgement. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

Dear Jojo, If you can scan the relevant parts of the original census images and send me the scans attached to an e-mail, I'll do my best to decipher the handwriting. Although it is in Carmarthenshire, Penboyr is only two miles from the Cardiganshire border. It's quite possible that the 1851 census enumerator made a mistake in interpreting the county name when transcribing the data from the census form into the enumerators logbook, especially if the householder had used an abbreviation. For example "Cards" could have been misread as "Carms". It's possible the householder didn't mention the county name at all, in which case one is relying on a census enumerator in Monmuuthshire being familiar with the geography of CDG and CMN. I agree that Cenarth is another possibility for "Cernan" --- but without seeing the original handwriting it is difficult to make a firm judgement. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jojo Smith" <ojoj2100@yahoo.ca> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 6:39 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Re: Unreadable CGN names Julie and John, thanks for the ideas. The reference to CGN "Penboyr" was from the 1851 Mon census for Nantyglo/Blaina (HO107/2447/folio 395 Blaina). On the 1881 census, the birthplace was also stated as Cardigan, but without a town mentioned. The family is on both the 1861(3997 117 28 Blaina) and 1871 (5318 27 47 Cwmtillery West) as well, but I just have the index info for those.) If anyone has access to the actual census images to see in person what is written there for the birthplace, the head of this household was George SMITH, born in the early 1820s (age given as 30 in 1851), Frome, Somerset. The person in question was his wife, Rachel, who, in 1851, was 4 years older (age given as 34), but who , according to the rest of the censuses, was about 8 years older. The other unreadable birthplace, "Cernan" was from the same 1851 census (HO107/2447/Folio 340 Clyn Mawr) for Magdalin JONES, 51, wife of John JONES, 70, farmer of 30 acres, born Aberystruth. "Cellan" is a possibility. I noticed another possibility as well, earlier today, "Cenarth" which is SE from Cardigan city on a modern map. Jojo --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== National Library of Wales http://www.llgc.org.uk/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

Dear Judy, Check out the 'Maps of Wales' pages and 'Tallis's Topographical Dictionary' sections of my 'Welsh Family History Archive' at the address given under my signature (below). 'Maps of Wales' offers a map of Wales showing the locations of the pre-1974 Welsh counties. 'Tallis's Topographical Dictionary' (published 1860) offers a separate more detailed map of each individual county. My 'Maps of Wales' feature also offers advice on "Selecting the right maps" and "Map Suppliers and Publishers". Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Elott" <jrelott@earthlink.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 4:33 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] map of Wales I would appreciate knowing where I could obtain a good, large map of Wales. My World Atlases are not large enough to be practical for my use. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks very much. JudyElott <jrelott@earthlink.net> ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Gareth's Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

Julie and John, thanks for the ideas. The reference to CGN "Penboyr" was from the 1851 Mon census for Nantyglo/Blaina (HO107/2447/folio 395 Blaina). On the 1881 census, the birthplace was also stated as Cardigan, but without a town mentioned. The family is on both the 1861(3997 117 28 Blaina) and 1871 (5318 27 47 Cwmtillery West) as well, but I just have the index info for those.) If anyone has access to the actual census images to see in person what is written there for the birthplace, the head of this household was George SMITH, born in the early 1820s (age given as 30 in 1851), Frome, Somerset. The person in question was his wife, Rachel, who, in 1851, was 4 years older (age given as 34), but who , according to the rest of the censuses, was about 8 years older. The other unreadable birthplace, "Cernan" was from the same 1851 census (HO107/2447/Folio 340 Clyn Mawr) for Magdalin JONES, 51, wife of John JONES, 70, farmer of 30 acres, born Aberystruth. "Cellan" is a possibility. I noticed another possibility as well, earlier today, "Cenarth" which is SE from Cardigan city on a modern map. Jojo --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

Jojo Smith <ojoj2100@yahoo.ca> wrote: Would appreciate ideas as to what these two unreadable CGN placenames (from censuses) really are: "Penboyr"; "Cernan" ========================= Dear Jojo, According to Kain and Oliver (2001): As Julie Preston says, Penboyr is the name of a parish in Carmarthenshire (grid reference SN345375). There is no "Cernan" listed. Could it possibly be Cellan? Cellan is a parish and village in Cardiganshire (grid reference SN625483). Source: KAIN, Roger J. P., and OLIVER, Richard R. (2001) "Historic Parishes of England & Wales", History Data Service, University of Essex, Colchester. ISBN 0-9540032-0-9. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 20/08/2003

Jojo, I'll happily defer to those more knowledgeable but Pen-boyr is shown as a parish in Carmarthenshire. I can't help with Cernan. It would help to see the place-names in context. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jojo Smith" <ojoj2100@yahoo.ca> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 4:18 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Unreadable CGN placenames on censuses > Would appreciate ideas as to what these two unreadable CGN placenames (from censuses) really are: > > "Penboyr" > > "Cernan" > > Thank you. Jojo

Would appreciate ideas as to what these two unreadable CGN placenames (from censuses) really are: "Penboyr" "Cernan" Thank you. Jojo --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

I would appreciate knowing where I could obtain a good, large map of Wales. My World Atlases are not large enough to be practical for my use. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks very much. JudyElott <jrelott@earthlink.net>

In a message dated 8/22/03 4:01:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Gwyn: Gorwydd is a township within the Parish of Llanddewi Brefi. What are the first names and dates of your Williams family on Tanygoyallt? I have family on that farm. Annie South West Wales Look up List > Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:22:48 +0100 > From: "Gwyn Williams" <gwynwilliams1@lineone.net> > > > Subject: [WLS-CGN] Tanygoyallt, Gorwydd,Cardigan > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Can anyone tell me if there is still a place called Gorwydd in Cardigan, > please. My WILLIAMS family lived there in 1881 up until at least 1901. > > Thanks, > Gwyn Williams > (Mid-Glam) > >

In the latest Dyfed FHS journal is mentioned that a book by Glynden Trollope is to be published in November to celebrate the 200th anniversary of 'The Cambrian' , the first English language newspaper to be published in Wales, launched in Swansea in 1804. The book has c 600 extracts from the newspaper. It is to be launched by Roy Noble, BBC presenter, in Swansea on 12th November. The cost of the book will be GBP12 plus GBP3 postage (in UK I presume) - or can be collected from Swansea or Llanelli. All proceeds are to be donated to the charity 'MIND in Dacorum' (based in Hemel Hempstead, Herts) or shared with other participating charities. I have registered my own interest at the email address provided enquiries@mindindacorum.org.uk The director of MIND in Dacorum is Julie Attree, my initial email has produced a snail mail response from Glynden Trollope saying that she is currently away and will email out further purchase/delivery details in due course, there will also soon be a web site. If any one else is interested I suggest you reserve a copy at the above email address. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

This most useful material has been provided by Stan Waight and his team of contributors (some of who are on these lists). 'Lighthouse Personnel in England and Wales and the Channel Islands 1841-1910.' Includes;- Table of Keepers; Table of Stations by county; Location map of the lighthouse sites. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/Lighthouses.html A big thank you to all concerned. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Dear Gwyn, Gorwydd is part of Llanddewi Brefi in Cardiganshire. Tanygoyallt farm is on the outskirts of the village, I have a photograph of it somewhere, will try and scan it for you if you like. The Williams family of Tanygoyaltt are part of my family Will send you another email off list Regards Liz Thomas Somerset

Can anyone tell me if there is still a place called Gorwydd in Cardigan, please. My WILLIAMS family lived there in 1881 up until at least 1901. Thanks, Gwyn Williams (Mid-Glam)

Dear Listers, I've just uploaded a new set of thirty 'Images of Wales' pictures onto my website. The feature illustrates the wide variety of colourful wild flowers found in the hedgerows, fields, and woods in south-west and mid Wales, in the late winter, spring and summer. I have tried my best to identify the flowers correctly, but I am not an expert on wild flowers. If you think I have wrongly identified any of the specimens, please let me know by e-mail and I will rectify the error(s). Each webpage contains 10 images and may be slow to download via a dial-up Internet connection. 'Images of Wales' is at http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/ Enjoy!! :o) Best wishes, John ---------------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive (WFHA): http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

Fwded for Bernard, please reply to him on meech5@tiscali.co.uk I think the place is in HIMMINIOG (AMMINIOG), a township in the parish of Llanrhystud http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanrhystud/Lewis1833T.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard Meech" <meech5@tiscali.co.uk> To: <Roots@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: Llanrhystyd Heminiog DAVIES 1844 > Hello Gareth, > > Would it be possible for you to put out a request from me? > I am Online Parish Clerk for 2 parishes in Dorset, part of the help network > in the South West of England. I now find that thee is help I need in trace > the DAVIES family from the Llanrhystyd area of Cardiganshire. I have traced > these people from my great-grand mother's birth certificate which states her > parents as - > > Ebenezer DAVIES and Mary EVANS and were living at "Frifach"(?), Haminion > Llanrhystyd when my great grandmother, Rachel, was born 29 Oct. 1844. > She appears to have a younger sister Eliza. > Rachel DAVIES married Evan JONES about 1872. They were living at 2 Little > Guildford Street Southwark Surrey when my grandmother Margaret Eleanor JONES > was born. She has an older and a younger brother, Ebenezer and David. This > family appear on the 1881 census still at 2 Little Guildford Street and were > Dairymen. Eliza had married and was now with the surname SERIN(?) Evan > JONES died between late 1873 and the 1881 census. > By the 1891 census they had disappeared. > The address given for my grandmother upon her marriage in Dec 1899, was 18 > Victoria Gardens (Kensington or Notting Hill) London. She married my > grandfather John Elliott MEECH. > > As I not a subscriber to the Cardigan list please send any replies to me at > meech5@tiscali.co.uk > > TIA > > Bernard MEECH > in Braintree Essex > > >

Hello im looking for help in finding more info on the following. Elizabeth Ann Lewis aged 22 married in 1887 in Aberystwyth to Thomas Price also 22. Elizabeth`s father was Abraham Lewis a Sailor know i can only find one Elizabeth Ann Lewis who matches info that i have but she is living with her grandparents. Can anyone help me find out more about Abraham Lewis thanks for any help from sandra. ----------------------------------------- Email provided by http://www.ntlhome.com/

Rachel, "Calvinists Incorporated" contains a very comprehensive bibliography, as well as the many notes to each chapter. Within the bibliography are sections entitled "Other Print Sources" and "Non-Print Sources" -- the latter includes specific persons who provided details about their families, either in the form of interviews or with genealogical assistance and help locating emigrant farms in Wales. The former includes family genealogies which, in most cases, have not been published en mass but have been deposited at their local library. In her introduction, Ms. Knowles states, "I have used a variety of statistical and qualitative sources for this multiscaled, trans-Atlantic study. The main core of information, however, is a database of individual immigrant biographies drawn from obituaries, community and chapel histories from Wales and the United States, field research, a wealth of family histories generously provided by American genealogists and Welsh local historians, charcoal iron furnace company records, and governmental sources such as the U.S. and British censuses, the Tithe Survey, and land records." Before contacting Ms. Knowles, I would suggest thoroughly scouring the sources listed to see which source may apply to your particular family. It has been my experience that one can write to the author in care of the publisher, in this case it is: University of Chicago Press 11030 S. Langley Ave. Chicago, IL 60628 (800) 621-2736 Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Slansky" <rachellad@earthlink.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 12:56 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Re: Anne Kelly Knowles > Thanks Annie. I'll check it out and report to the list if I get anywhere. > > Rachel > > > Hi: > > > > I would contact the National Welsh-American Foundation at www.wales- > > usa.org > > and see if they can give you the information on the whereabouts of Anne > > Kelly > > Knowles. > > > > Annie > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html