No, I haven't run away, I have been a busy bee on Genuki 'backroom stuff' :-) The upshot of which is that all of 'my' 4 Welsh counties now have links on *each* (99.9%) parish page to a parish location sketch map, and also to online maps provided by Multimap, Streetmap, and Old maps. The latter is achieved by a clever (someone else) use of the existing Genuki gazetteer database, which contains entries for towns/villages/places within a parish That's the good news, the bad news is that the current database is based on OS grid references to the nearest km square. That's more or less Ok for Multimap/Streetmap but unfortunately doesn't quite 'hit the spot ' with Oldmap and that is a real problem. So, I'm having to go through and convert the OS refs into more exact locations (based on 6 numbers). Using paper maps I have just spent 3 days on CGN off and on, but have only covered about 25% of the total, so I can see weeks of work stretching ahead of me, hence this plea for help. At the same time I am also checking that I have places in the right parish, (they aren't all correct) using the Kain/Oliver Cd set.(I have a spare copy of the latter.) It is in fact possible to fiddle around and arrive at the exact grid ref within Old maps itself online, but that is painfully slow if you aren't on broadband and doesn't deal with the 'correct parish' angle anyway. Number of entries in current database; CGN 287 CMN 379 PEM 447 GLA 770 If anyone feels able to help me out then please contact me off list. I could perhaps split counties into smaller units should that be required. You need to have OS maps for the county of choice, be reasonably familiar with its parish structure - and able to work independently and diligently. Apart from my undying gratitude, your efforts would be permanently recorded online as a Genuki contributor. Thanks Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Hello! Would greatly appreciate help looking for birth records of: WILSON, Walter H., b. 17 July 1868 in Wales. He is my wife`s GF. She remembers hearing family memers say he was from Wales. We have no other info on the location in Wales. We do know he emigrated with his family to New York, USA in 1873. Thanks, Chuck Scarborough

Hi Noel! The answer is 'yes' if by 'Goginen' you mean 'Goginan'. At the time the village came under the Aberystwyth Registration District. The registers are now held at Cardiganshire North which, just to confuse, is located at Aberystwyth : Address: Cardiganshire North Registration District Swyddfar Sir Marine Terrace Aberystwyth Dyfed SY23 2DE Tel +44 (0)1970 633580 You may apply in Welsh or English Gelli'r ateb yn Gymraeg neu Saesneg Cheers from Goginan Paul P.S. If you would like to know more about the village just let me know, especially if your ancestor was connect with the old mine here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Horlock" <noel.horlock@btopenworld.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 12:58 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] > Hello, > Am I subscribed to the correct list to ask for information about a birth in > Goginen? > I am looking for my great grandfather's birth in Goginen in 1844. > His name was John Kerby. > If I am correct to which registration district do I need to apply for a > birth certificate. > Many thanks > > Noel Horlock > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > >

Hello, Am I subscribed to the correct list to ask for information about a birth in Goginen? I am looking for my great grandfather's birth in Goginen in 1844. His name was John Kerby. If I am correct to which registration district do I need to apply for a birth certificate. Many thanks Noel Horlock

------=_Part_9682_5157237.1062776944345 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Prynhawn da Gaynor, 1841 Census PRO Ref:- HO 107/1375/32 Felinfach, Llanwnen, Lampeter Thomas Evans 30 Miller N [?Not born in Ceredigion] Sarah Evans 25 Y John Evans 6 Y David Evans 3 Y Thomas Evans 4 months Y Cofion, Tudor ------=_Part_9682_5157237.1062776944345--

Hi Listers , I noticed on that excellent website about Llancynfelin , a sale of Tynywern on 2nd March 1896 and was wondering if there was any way of finding out who actually bought the cottages at that sale as my hubbys grandfather David Nicholls Jones was born at Tynywern in September 1897 . Davids younger and older siblings were however born in Glamorgan , which makes me think that David was born on a visit home to Llancynfelin .....but who were they visiting ??? Davids mothers family .....the Nicholls had as far as I know , already moved to Glamorgan , and Davids fathers family the Joneses ...well I dont know what became of them . Regards Carol

Bore da Gareth et al, If you'd like to get in touch please Gareth, the database of St Pedr/Peter's graveyard Lampeter is now complete, and I'd like to discuss the possibilities with you. Diolch, Steve.

My grt grt grandmother's family lived on the above farm to 1901 as far as I know.My grt grt grandmother was born there in 1844.Her name was Rachel Evans her father was Thomas Evans and mother Sarah Evans nee Jones. The family had ties with Capel y Groes Uniarian chapel.Rachel's brother John was a minister. Has anyone come across the family? I have them on the 1881 census but no earlier. Thank you

Hello I am looking for my grt grt grandmother's family. Her parents were Thomas Evans and Sarah Evans nee Jones. They were married 19th May 1835 in Lampeter Llanwnen. By 1844 the family are at Felinfach Llanwnen.My grt grt gran Rachel was born there then.Rachel was married in 1869 to Daniel davies atCapel yr Groes chapel Llanwnen. I would like to find more info on her father and mother. Thomas was the miller at Felinfach. Thank you Gaynor

Carol I presume you've seen the Llangynfelyn (Llancynfelin) site? http://www.llangynfelyn.org/hafan.html Frongoch is in the village of Tre'r ddol, parish of Llangynfelyn, north Ceredigion. That was my grandfather's home and had been his grandfather's home from the early 1800s. The transcription there for the 1881 census for Frongoch shows several families living there, including: 3, 82W Frongoch, Trerddol 1William Thomas Head M71 Farmer of 28 acres Cards, Llancynfelin  4, Elizabeth Thomas Wife M 51 Cards, Llancynfelin 5, John Thomas Son U 27 Farmers Son Cards, Llancynfelin 6 Mary Anne Thomas Daur U 23 Farmers Daughter Cards, Llancynfelin 7 William Morris Serv 17 General Farm Servant (Ind) Salop, Ludlow 8 83 Frongoch, Trerddol 1 John Nichols Head M 34 House Painter Gloucs, North Nibley 9 Ann Nichols Wife M 30 House painters wife Cards, Llancynfelin 10 Anney Nichols Daur 8 Scholar Cards, Llancynfelin 11 Kate Nichols Daur 7 Scholar Cards, Llanbadarnfawr 12 Thomas S Nichols Son 5 Scholar Cards, Llanbadarnfawr 13 David Nichols Son 3 Cards, Llanbadarnfawr 14 Rebecca Nichols Daur 1 Cards, Llancynfelin John Thomas was my great grandfather. There's a photo of old Frongoch (and 'new' Frongoch) on the site. The old place was largely demolished in about 1926 when John Thomas died and my great grandmother had the place rebuilt. My mother inherited it and sold it out of the family in 1968. Tynywern is just a short way up the road towards Machynlleth, at the northern end of Tre'r ddol. The records on the site also show that on 2 Dec 1879, John Nichols, painter, had his daughter Rebecca vaccinated. The Nichol(l)s don't seem to be at Frongoch or Tynywern in the 1891 or 1901 census. The family obviously moved around, having apparently lived at Llanbadarn Fawr, just on the western outskirts of Aberystwyth for a few years in the late 1870s (from the birthplaces of several children). There is a Griffith Jones, pauper, mentioned twice on the site (born about 1870, probably the same child) with an elder sister Elizabeth, 3 years older. Does not look like a match for yours. But the name is hardly likely to be unique! David Canberra > Hello list , > I hope i'm in the right place . After years of looking for my husbands > grandfather David Nicholls Jones , we managed to find his birth and the cert > said > he was born at Tynywern , Llancynfelin Rd ? on 18th September 1897 . He was > the son of Griffith Jones and Annie (nee Nicholls) . I have now found Annie > Nicholls in the 1881 below > > 1881 Census > > > Dwelling: Frongoch Trerddol > Census Place: Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales > Source: FHL Film 1342311 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5447 Folio 109 > Page 16 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > John NICHOLS M 34 M North Nibley, Gloucester, England > Rel: Head > Occ: House Painter > Ann NICHOLS M 30 F Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales > Rel: Wife > Occ: House Painters Wife > Anney NICHOLS 8 F Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales > Rel: Daur > Occ: Scholar > Kate NICHOLS 7 F Llanbadarnfawr, Cardigan, Wales > Rel: Daur > Occ: Scholar > Thomas S. NICHOLS 5 M Llanbadarnfawr, Cardigan, Wales > Rel: Son > Occ: Scholar > David NICHOLS 3 M Llanbadarnfawr, Cardigan, Wales > Rel: Son > Rebecca NICHOLS 1 F Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales > > Rel: Daur > > ________________________ > > But the only matching Griffith Jones I can find appears to be in the > Workhouse . Griff Jones was born about 1867-70 . I dont know who his parents > were . > > Griff and Annie were married in 1892 in Pontypridd district . > The 1901 census of Llest , Garw Valley , Glamorgan shows them living there > with four children plus what appears to be a sister of Griffith Jones > ...........Maggie Job , married , age 20 , born Cwmavon , Glamorgan . > > Questions..... Does anyone have any connection to Nicholls or any records > of them ? Secondly ........Would Griffith Jones have been in the Workhouse if > his parents were alive (just wondering how he had a sister born c1881 ) Have I > got the wrong one ? > > Regards > Carol Jones > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html >

Hi David , Many thanks for the reply . The Llancynfelin website is marvellous ...Ive just found the burial of Annie Nicholls mother in 1886 age 35 and also the wedding of John Nicholls and Anne Williams in 1872 . Will see if I can find her family now in the 1871 census . Wish every Parish had a brilliant website like that ! Regards Carol

Robert Wilson <robert.wilson407@ntlworld.com> wrote: could some one please if possible,lookup a HENRY WILSON,born est 1814, PENNANT,LLANBADARN TREFEGLWYS,his father was JOHN WILSON,i beleive a GARDENER by trade born late 1700s;; or could some one with expertise please tell me the church, chapel or where i can find these baptism records for PENNANT. =================== Dear Rob, Pennant is in the parish of Llanbadarn Trefeglwys. The name "Llanbadarn" tells us that the parish church is almost certainly dedicated to St Padarn. The Phillimore Atlas and Index of Parish Records states that the original parish records for Llanbadarn Trefeglwys, for the period 1724 to 1978 are deposited at the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth. Phillimore also indicates that the IGI includes records for the period 1724 to 1873, possibly based on Bishops Transcripts. I do not know where any surviving nonconformist chapel records are deposited. Source: "The Phillimore Atlas and Index of Parish Registers", edited by Cecil Humphery-Smith, published in 1995 by Phillimore & Co. Ltd., Chichester; ISBN 0-85033-950-2. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

----- Original Message ----- From: "robert.wilson407" <robert.wilson407@ntlworld.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] request lookup or info=baptisms around 1800 to 1814 in PENNANT, LLANBADARN TREFEGLWYS by rob wilson robert.wilson407@ntlworld.com > hi,im rob could some one please if possible,lookup a HENRY WILSON,born est 1814, PENNANT,LLANBADARN TREFEGLWYS,his father was JOHN WILSON,i beleive a GARDENER by trade born late 1700s;; or could some one with > expertise please tell me the church, chapel or where i can find these baptism records for PENNANT.looking forward in anticipation to your guidance thank you rob wilson. > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > >

Hello list , I hope i'm in the right place . After years of looking for my husbands grandfather David Nicholls Jones , we managed to find his birth and the cert said he was born at Tynywern , Llancynfelin Rd ? on 18th September 1897 . He was the son of Griffith Jones and Annie (nee Nicholls) . I have now found Annie Nicholls in the 1881 below 1881 Census Dwelling: Frongoch Trerddol Census Place: Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales Source: FHL Film 1342311 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5447 Folio 109 Page 16 Marr Age Sex Birthplace John NICHOLS M 34 M North Nibley, Gloucester, England Rel: Head Occ: House Painter Ann NICHOLS M 30 F Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Wife Occ: House Painters Wife Anney NICHOLS 8 F Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Kate NICHOLS 7 F Llanbadarnfawr, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Thomas S. NICHOLS 5 M Llanbadarnfawr, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Son Occ: Scholar David NICHOLS 3 M Llanbadarnfawr, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Son Rebecca NICHOLS 1 F Llancynfelin, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Daur ________________________ But the only matching Griffith Jones I can find appears to be in the Workhouse . Griff Jones was born about 1867-70 . I dont know who his parents were . Griff and Annie were married in 1892 in Pontypridd district . The 1901 census of Llest , Garw Valley , Glamorgan shows them living there with four children plus what appears to be a sister of Griffith Jones ...........Maggie Job , married , age 20 , born Cwmavon , Glamorgan . Questions..... Does anyone have any connection to Nicholls or any records of them ? Secondly ........Would Griffith Jones have been in the Workhouse if his parents were alive (just wondering how he had a sister born c1881 ) Have I got the wrong one ? Regards Carol Jones

dear friends, Someone who has my e-mail address in their address book has a virus infected computer. Norton Anti virus has caught seven infected messages this week alone. Happily, I keep my virus protection up to date; thus the viruses arriving have been quarantined and eliminated from my computer. Please, everyone, check the status of your own computers and install updated virus protection. Stooping these virus attacks requires every computer users help. thanks, Anna

Annie Lloyd <Cardi2@aol.com> wrote [shortened version]: John Ball's [snip] comment about the parish and county boundaries are clearly marked on a map is correct but when you drive a car in that area, they are not clearly marked. [snip] I drove all over that area and could not tell you which county I was in. [snip] It's all fine to do research with a map but it is a total different thing when you are driving a car. [The full version of Annie's message is copied below] ======================== Dear Listers, If one relies only on roadside signboards to indicate the position of a county border, then I agree that one may not know in which county one is situated at any given moment. However, I maintain that map-reading is an essential skill for genealogists and that the maps need to be studied as part of one's preparation *before* exploring an area by car. One would then have no doubt where the pre-1974 county boundaries are situated. The post-1974 boundaries are largely irrelevant for genealogy purposes. As I made clear yesterday in an off-list message to Annie, the pre-1974 county borders in the Cenarth - Newcastle Emlyn area were defined by the course of the rivers Teifi and Cych which are clearly marked and identified by name on the modern Ordnance Survey Landranger map of the area (sheet 145). In order to clarify the county boundaries for everyone, I quote the relevant passage from my message to Annie about the county borders in the Newcastle Emlyn area: -------quote begins------- The pre-1974 border between Cardiganshire (in the north) and Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire (in the south) was defined by the river Teifi. Anything north of the river was in Cardiganshire. At Newcastle Emlyn, if you're on the south bank of the river you're in Carmarthenshire; if you're on the north bank you're in Cardiganshire. If you stand in the middle of the bridge with your legs apart you can have one foot in each county! The bridge carries the A475 over the Teifi. Similarly, at Cenarth, if you're on the south bank of the river you're in Carmarthenshire; if you're on the north bank you're in Cardiganshire. If you stand in the middle of the bridge with your legs apart you can again have one foot in each county. This bridge carries the A484 over the Teifi. On the B4332, about 1 mile west of Cenarth, one encounters the pre-1974 border between Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire. The border is defined by the river Cych, a tributary of the Teifi. East of the Cych is Carmarthenshire, west of the Cych is Pembrokeshire. There's a bridge at Penrhiw which carries the B4332 over the river Cych. If you stand in the middle of this bridge with your legs apart you can have one foot in Carmarthenshire and one in Pembrokeshire. Just north of Penrhiw, near Abercych, the Cych enters the Teifi and at this point the borders of the three counties meet together (CGN, CMN, and PEM). If you stand here you'll get very wet! :o) All the above boundaries and borders are clearly marked on pre-1974 Ordnance Survey maps of the area. I have sheet 139 from the Ordnance Survey "One-Inch" map series in front of me now. It was published in 1967. The Kain and Oliver maps I cited previously are based on Ordnance Survey maps of the 1940s, similar to the 1967 map which I have before me right now. There was no confusion about the county borders until 1974 when CGN, CMN, and PEM were merged and became the county of Dyfed. --------quote ends-------- As long as we do our homework beforehand, we should have no problems identifying where these county boundaries lie. Identifying parish boundaries is a different matter, but even they are usually defined by easily recognisable topographical feaures such as rivers and streams and ridges. It concerns me that a problem is being created where none exists, and that Listers new to Welsh genealogy may be misled into thinking that navigating one's way around Wales's network of roads and lanes is fraught with difficulties. I'm not saying that we don't all get lost sometimes, but in most cases getting lost is evidence of inadequate preparation for the trip. Obviously if one is driving, it helps to have a passenger acting as navigator. But even without a passenger, if one has the relevant maps easily accessible, perhaps accompanied by a few written notes about salient features of the landscape, one can drive around the countryside knowing exactly where one is --- well, nearly :o) Happy motoring! Kindest regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cardi2@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:03 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Re Boundaries in the area around Newcastle Emlyn In a message dated 8/26/03 2:56:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: This was part of John Ball's email to me and the list and I do differ with him on this particular paragraph. His comment about the parish and county boundaries are clearly marked on a map is correct but when you drive a car in that area, they are not clearly marked. I drove all over that area and could not tell you which county I was in. My 75 year old cousin who was born in the area, told me one day that she never knows which county she is in - because the road goes in and out of them. It's all fine to do research with a map but it is a total different thing when you are driving a car. I hope she finds her ancestor but she does need to look at the census herself and then send it to someone who speaks Welsh or understands the Welsh language, or get the PRO number, folio, page etc and give it to someone on this list. I hope you are able to find your ancestors. Good luck. Annie. > Incidentally, the county and parish boundaries in the area are very > clearly defined on the electronic maps on the CDs accompanying Kain and > Oliver (2001). > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Rootsweb list archives[ threaded] http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WLS-Cardiganshire-L/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

In a message dated 8/26/03 2:56:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: This was part of John Ball's email to me and the list and I do differ with him on this particular paragraph. His comment about the parish and county boundaries are clearly marked on a map is correct but when you drive a car in that area, they are not clearly marked. I drove all over that area and could not tell you which county I was in. My 75 year old cousin who was born in the area, told me one day that she never knows which county she is in - because the road goes in and out of them. It's all fine to do research with a map but it is a total different thing when you are driving a car. I hope she finds her ancestor but she does need to look at the census herself and then send it to someone who speaks Welsh or understands the Welsh language, or get the PRO number, folio, page etc and give it to someone on this list. I hope you are able to find your ancestors. Good luck. Annie. > Incidentally, the county and parish boundaries in the area are very > clearly defined on the electronic maps on the CDs accompanying Kain and > Oliver (2001). >

Judy MAPS OF WALES May I recommend Ordnance Survey? (www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk) for maps of Wales? I have recently acquired their touring map of Wales at 1:250 000 (1 inch = 3.5 miles) and that serves very well as a map of the whole country. Of course, OS has many more detailed maps, as you can discover from their website. David Canberra Australia > > I would appreciate knowing where I could obtain a good, large map of > Wales. My World Atlases are not large enough to be practical for my > use. Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks very > much. JudyElott > <jrelott@earthlink.net> > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html >

I want to thank everybody for their ideas and/or info on the unreadable census placenames. Unfortunately, the volunteer cannot provide scans or copies of the original handwriting. Now, my next question is this: Would the parish of Newcastle Emlyn be the best place to start looking for the birth info on both of these ladies, perhaps via an LDS film if there is one? Or, would the historical society for the three counties (the name escapes me at the moment) be better? Thanks, Jojo --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

Annie Lloyd <Cardi2@aol.com> wrote: I'm very doubtful that Cerman is Cellan as I do research there and I have never seen it spelled that way. I'm more apt to think that it is Cenarth or possibly Cemais Hundred in PEM which isn't far from Penboyr. The county boundaries in that area are very tricky. ==================== Dear Annie, The suggestion is not that Cellan was misspelt as Cernan in the census but that whoever looked up or transcribed the original entry had misread the census enumerator's handwriting. Presumably the culprit had little or no knowledge of the area or of the orthography of Welsh place-names. I agree that a handwritten Cemais could possibly be misread as Cernan, but Cemais is in Pembrokeshire, not Cardiganshire, and surely it would be very unusual for someone to quote the name of a hundred as his/her birthplace. In my view, the solution to the problem lies in revisiting and re-examining the image of the original census entry. Incidentally, the county and parish boundaries in the area are very clearly defined on the electronic maps on the CDs accompanying Kain and Oliver (2001). Source: KAIN, Roger J. P., and OLIVER, Richard R. (2001) "Historic Parishes of England & Wales", History Data Service, University of Essex, Colchester. ISBN 0-9540032-0-9 Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003