Please note that Rootsweb appears to have ongoing problems with List 2 and List 5 servers, Dyfed is on List 2, the other two on List 5. I just received a Dyfed mail I sent 24 hours ago, and one I sent 5 minutes ago - both at once ! Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Further to my recent postings I have now proved to my own satisfaction that most of my spam comes in on an address that has *only* appeared in that exact format on the Rootsweb archives. I say exact format because the archives show my old address of W/gen@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk as gen@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk --- nowhere else have I seen it in that curtailed form. When I analysed my incoming spam I found that 67% came in on the gen@ version. I changed it to Roots@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk last December, and the other day in one download session I only had 2 spam on that address but 37 on the gen@ address. I have failed so far to find out exactly when Rootsweb encrypted the archive addresses, they are too busy with server problems, no matter. I think I can confidently say that my own spam problem relates to the Rw archives -- the pre-encryption period in particular. On the same evidence the Rw archives encryption looks effective anyway. So, what I have done is set up Mailwasher's filter to delete and hide anything on the gen@ address, works well. I also have a filter rule that stops the deleting of W/gen@ etc just in case it's still in someone's address book. I recommend to anyone who gets a lot of spam to change their email address immediately. Easy enough with the freeserve sort, just change what comes before the @ to whatever you like because the user name comes after the @. But my other address type tirbach@clara.co.uk would require changing online at clara's site, easy to do though, and this type has the added advantage that mails to the old address format would then be bounced by clara themselves. Obviously you would need to tell people of the change, and unsub/resub the lists of course ! Bear in mind that the Lookup Exchange sites I run have encrypted addresses now, so no ongoing worries there if you tell me of the changed address. I hope this advice helps at least some of you cope better with this wretched problem. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Annie Lloyd <Cardi2@aol.com> wrote: Why wasn't this known to genealogists and researchers before now? Where has it been hiding? Since it affects the Welsh and the English, I would think that someone would be starting "an anti" organization already. =============== Dear Listers, The consultation document hasn't been kept secret. Genealogists and researchers in the UK have known about it for some time. It has been discussed on some of the Rootsweb genealogy lists (check the archives) and (for example) in the British monthly "Family Tree Magazine", accompanied by requests for us to submit our comments on the proposals. The consultation document was circulated to a large number of relevant bodies including the (British) Society of Genealogists; Society of Archivists; National Library of Wales; Genealogical Society of Utah; Guild of One Name Studies (GOONS); Family Tree Magazine; Family History Monthly; and Federation of Family History Societies (FFHS). I repeat the URL (quoted two days ago by Aidan Jones) where the complete document can be studied: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/registration/downloads/00Regnprelims_v1.pdf Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.529 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

Greetings list. New to list, this is first post. Looking for John Williams, Cardi. His 1881 census lists his birth as Talybont, Cardi, about 1842. His wife, Margaret Edwards, same origin, birth about 1839. 1881 census finds them in Glam, Ferdale. Thanks in advance, Jerry Williams

In a message dated 10/22/03 11:01:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Why wasn't this known to genealogists and researchers before now? Where has it been hiding? Since it affects the Welsh and the English, I would think that someone would be starting "an anti" organization already. It hasn't been too many years when LDS wanted to film the actual certificates starting 1 July 1837 which would have been a boom to researchers. London got in the act and said no, it had to start with the present time and work backwards and we know, as with any government agency, no matter where in the world, it would have taken years. I understand that Parliament got in the act and said no to the LDS. Keep us posted. Thanks, Annie > It presumably refers to the consultation document "Civil Registration: > Delivering Vital Change", which sketches out the government's proposals to > reform the system in England & Wales. If fully implemented, it MIGHT lead > to civil registers of births and deaths over 100 years old being transferred > to local record offices (where there would be available on free access). > However it would also mean that information from civil registers under 100 > years old would become much more restricted (except to authorised bodies and > to certain close relatives - not yet fully defined). > > The above are just two small parts of a very wide-ranging paper, covering > many aspects of the civil registration process. This latest paper was > published earlier in the Summer, and it has already provoked much debate > amongst registrars, genealogists, and other interested parties, all of whom > have made representations. It is still just a consultation document and > inevitably, some of the details are quite sketchy. > > You can see the full document at > http://www.statistics.gov.uk/registration/downloads/00Regnprelims_v1.pdf . > However, anyone still wishing to add further comments (presumably by Email) > to those already submitted is going to have to be extremely quick - it is > over 300 pages long and the closing date is this Friday! (The most > important chapters dealing with access to records are 6 & 7). > > AJ > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com> > Received >

'A collection of things said about and to the Welsh people' http://home.clara.net/tirbach/HelpPagepearls.html#Collection I acknowledge that I have copied these original third party quotations directly from that most excellent reference work ' The Welsh Almanac' by Terry Breverton, 2002. This is an unusual book, crammed full of facts, dates, events, quotations --- brought to life by the author's own strongly held feelings about his homeland which one senses on every page. Details of this and other books can be seen on Wales Books http://www.walesbooks.com Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Proposed changes > > Hello? > > Is this out of context? What prompted this? > > Regards, > > Julie Preston It presumably refers to the consultation document "Civil Registration: Delivering Vital Change", which sketches out the government's proposals to reform the system in England & Wales. If fully implemented, it MIGHT lead to civil registers of births and deaths over 100 years old being transferred to local record offices (where there would be available on free access). However it would also mean that information from civil registers under 100 years old would become much more restricted (except to authorised bodies and to certain close relatives - not yet fully defined). The above are just two small parts of a very wide-ranging paper, covering many aspects of the civil registration process. This latest paper was published earlier in the Summer, and it has already provoked much debate amongst registrars, genealogists, and other interested parties, all of whom have made representations. It is still just a consultation document and inevitably, some of the details are quite sketchy. You can see the full document at http://www.statistics.gov.uk/registration/downloads/00Regnprelims_v1.pdf . However, anyone still wishing to add further comments (presumably by Email) to those already submitted is going to have to be extremely quick - it is over 300 pages long and the closing date is this Friday! (The most important chapters dealing with access to records are 6 & 7). AJ

Hi, This is a copy of my response to the Office of National Statistics about the proposed changes in UK civil registration. Sorry I did not make that clear. Cofion, Tudor > from: Julie Preston <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> > date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:32:34 > to: tudor.rees@btopenworld.com, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Proposed changes > > > Hello? > > Is this out of context? What prompted this? > > Regards, > > Julie Preston > juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <tudor.rees@btopenworld.com> > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:11 AM > Subject: [WLS-CGN] Proposed changes > > > > ------=_Part_5343_1945965.1066831893569 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Sir, > > I am very unhappy about the proposals to limit some information to records > over 100 years as this will make Family and Local History research much more > difficult, especially in Wales. > > > > There are many groups and individuals doing valuable research at a time > when the population has become much more mobile, and there is a danger that > our heritage is being lost. > > > > In adopting the "for Wales, see England" approach, the withholding of > information about occupation will have a disproportionate effect, give the > frequency of identical names. > > > > Please think again. > > Dr Tudor Wms Rees > > ------=_Part_5343_1945965.1066831893569-- > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Genuki Wales > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ > > > >

Julie Preston <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> wrote: If/when you check out John Ball's images of Strata Florida Abbey and see the tombstone for the leg of Henry Hughes, Cooper, you'll notice the clarity of the inscription. If you visit Strata Florida churchyard in person, the inscription will not appear this clear -- when I took the photo in '93, I used shaving foam (!) on the stone, wiped it down, and the foam settled into the inscription. Please -- no lectures on my method (probably the reason John neglected to mention that detail)! ;-) ================ Dear Listers, I can vouch for the fact that the inscription is very difficult to photograph without some kind of artificial aid. My own attempts to photograph the tombstone 'au naturel' were total failures, whereas Julie's shaving foam method gives a superb result. No lectures from me this time Julie! ;o) Listers will need to search the Rootsweb mailing list archives to find our heated discussion (in 1999?) on the pros and cons of your shaving foam technique! All the best, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.529 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/2003

------=_Part_5343_1945965.1066831893569 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sir, I am very unhappy about the proposals to limit some information to records over 100 years as this will make Family and Local History research much more difficult, especially in Wales. There are many groups and individuals doing valuable research at a time when the population has become much more mobile, and there is a danger that our heritage is being lost. In adopting the "for Wales, see England" approach, the withholding of information about occupation will have a disproportionate effect, give the frequency of identical names. Please think again. Dr Tudor Wms Rees ------=_Part_5343_1945965.1066831893569--

Dear Lists, If/when you check out John Ball's images of Strata Florida Abbey and see the tombstone for the leg of Henry Hughes, Cooper, you'll notice the clarity of the inscription. If you visit Strata Florida churchyard in person, the inscription will not appear this clear -- when I took the photo in '93, I used shaving foam (!) on the stone, wiped it down, and the foam settled into the inscription. Please -- no lectures on my method (probably the reason John neglected to mention that detail)! ;-) Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net

Hello? Is this out of context? What prompted this? Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <tudor.rees@btopenworld.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:11 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Proposed changes > ------=_Part_5343_1945965.1066831893569 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Sir, > I am very unhappy about the proposals to limit some information to records over 100 years as this will make Family and Local History research much more difficult, especially in Wales. > > There are many groups and individuals doing valuable research at a time when the population has become much more mobile, and there is a danger that our heritage is being lost. > > In adopting the "for Wales, see England" approach, the withholding of information about occupation will have a disproportionate effect, give the frequency of identical names. > > Please think again. > Dr Tudor Wms Rees > ------=_Part_5343_1945965.1066831893569-- > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Genuki Wales > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ >

Dear Listers, Following Gareth's recent cross posting (copied below) about the fascinating tombstone in the churchyard at Strata Florida near Pontrhydfendigaid, Cardiganshire, I've received several requests to display my 'Images of Wales' feature on this subject. I have therefore uploaded the Strata Florida feature onto my Retrospective page. The Strata Florida page includes eleven photographs of the abbey, the adjacent churchyard, and (of course) the tombstone commemorating the interment of the leg of Henry Hughes. To view the Strata Florida feature select the appropriate link on my Retrospective page at: http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/retro/retro.htm Enjoy!! Best wishes, John ---------------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive (WFHA): http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <wfha@clara.co.uk> To: "CGN List"; "Dyfed List" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Strata Florida snippet - cross posting Gareth Hicks <Roots@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: Another intriguing snippet from Terry Breverton's book, 'The Welsh Almanac', 2002 ############ 'A small tombstone in Strad Fflur, Strata Florida Abbey reads "The left leg and part of the thigh of Henry Hughes, Cooper, was cut off and interred here, June 18 1756" The rest of Henry emigrated to the USA.' ############ ================ Dear Listers, I have included a photograph of this tombstone on my 'Retrospective Images of Wales' feature on Strata Florida Abbey, last shown on my website in April 2002. The photograph was taken by my friend and fellow lister Julie Preston. The story surrounding the intriguing tombstone inscription is as follows: Many years ago, before the days of anaesthetics and antiseptics, a local man had to have his leg amputated to save his life. He survived the surgery and asked that his amputated leg be buried in the churchyard, in the plot which he himself would occupy when he died. The clergyman agreed to his request. Years later, the man emigrated to America, leaving his leg behind. The leg is still buried in the graveyard, and is marked with a tombstone. You can request the reinstatement of my Retrospective feature on Strata Florida Abbey by visiting my Webpage Archive at http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/retro/ Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003

In support of what John has written, and having extracted Welsh clergy records from 1540 - 1835, I can confirm that down to 1730 the registers of Cardiff St John were written in Latin, not English. Another unfortunate example to take was "ffrancis". The upper case 'F' was invariably written 'ff' both in England and Wales. On the more general point (and I speak as an English immigrant), I see no reason at all why a nation should not be proud of its language and heritage. I spent 18 years in Oman and took it for granted that I should make some effort to learn Arabic and the same applies to Welsh. However, as Graham implies, it is ironic that Cardiff, the most English town in Wales, should have been chosen as the capital. Size is not everything and, in my view, Aberystwyth would be a far better choice. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <wfha@clara.co.uk> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] English or Welsh in Cardiff? (formerly "addition to last message") > Graham William <robert.williams438@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote: > Little do these [Welsh nationalist] wallahs know that weve been speaking > english in Cardiff for at least 350 years.(all of the Cardiff St;Johns > Registers are written in English,and they go back to 1631) > These same Welsh nationalist Wallah,s have invented their own > language,on what they call themselves.Ive seen some of them called > "derric instead of derek. or ffrancis. also some have gone for the ap > version. > ================= > > Dear Graham, > > Surely there is false logic in your argument? > Some old parish register entries were written in ecclesiastical Latin, > but we do not draw from this the conclusion that Latin was the language > of the local people. > Similarly, the fact that entries in the old registers for St John's > parish Cardiff may have been written in English is not evidence that the > local population spoke English. The registers were written in English > because that was the language of the clergy and their bishops. Parish > registers throughout Wales were written in English (or Latin), even in > remote regions of Wales where few people spoke or understood English. > > You would need other evidence to support your claim that English has > been the language of Cardiff for 350 years. > > As for using Welsh spellings of personal names, that is surely a matter > of personal choice. Most languages have examples of the modification of > the spellings of foreign words and names when they become incorporated > into the language. For example, the Germanic name Willhelm became > William after being introduced into England by the Normans. > > Source: "The Oxford Names Companion" by Patrick Hanks, Flavia Hodges, A. > D. Mills, and Adrian Room, published in 2002 by Oxford University Press; > ISBN 0-19-860561-7. > > Kind regards, > > John > ---------------------------- > John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK > E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk > Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ > Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003 > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Welsh Family History Archive http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <wfha@clara.co.uk> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] English or Welsh in Cardiff? (formerly "addition to last message") > Graham William <robert.williams438@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote: > Little do these [Welsh nationalist] wallahs know that weve been speaking > english in Cardiff for at least 350 years.(all of the Cardiff St;Johns > Registers are written in English,and they go back to 1631) > These same Welsh nationalist Wallah,s have invented their own > language,on what they call themselves.Ive seen some of them called > "derric instead of derek. or ffrancis. also some have gone for the ap > version. > ================= > > Dear Graham, > > Surely there is false logic in your argument? > Some old parish register entries were written in ecclesiastical Latin, > but we do not draw from this the conclusion that Latin was the language > of the local people. > Similarly, the fact that entries in the old registers for St John's > parish Cardiff may have been written in English is not evidence that the > local population spoke English. The registers were written in English > because that was the language of the clergy and their bishops. Parish > registers throughout Wales were written in English (or Latin), even in > remote regions of Wales where few people spoke or understood English. > > You would need other evidence to support your claim that English has > been the language of Cardiff for 350 years. > > As for using Welsh spellings of personal names, that is surely a matter > of personal choice. Most languages have examples of the modification of > the spellings of foreign words and names when they become incorporated > into the language. For example, the Germanic name Willhelm became > William after being introduced into England by the Normans. > > Source: "The Oxford Names Companion" by Patrick Hanks, Flavia Hodges, A. > D. Mills, and Adrian Room, published in 2002 by Oxford University Press; > ISBN 0-19-860561-7. > > Kind regards, > > John > ---------------------------- > John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK > E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk > Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ > Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003 > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Welsh Family History Archive http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm > >

Kelly's Directory 1910 Specifically from the cd published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ Llanddewi Aber-arth parish, Aberaeron http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/LlanddewiAber-Arth/Kellys1910Aberayron. html John Ball has taken pity on me (again) and has very kindly extracted the extensive names lists for the section on Aberaeron which I omitted when doing the general description last week. Thanks a lot JB. Perhaps others missed the thrust of the message below, it was so delayed in getting to the Dyfed list in particular. I was of course referring to CGN, CMN and PEM, any help welcome but you do need the CD. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth" <Roots@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk> To: <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: [Dyfed] Latest Genuki material - cross posting > I have started a long term programme of extracting material from Kelly's > Directory South Wales 1910. > Specifically from the cd published by Archive CD Books > http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ > > It won't be a full extraction, the larger places entries are simply far too > big ! > I'm starting with CGN, the first complete one is for Aberporth, can be seen > on > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Aber-porth/Kellys1910.html > > If anyone who has the Cd, or would buy it, wishes to take part in this > challenging project then please contact me direct. > Usual terms --- lots of thanks from me, no money, and an honourable mention > on Genuki :-) > > Gareth > List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM > Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ > Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > . > > > ==== DYFED Mailing List ==== > Cardiganshire FHS http://www.cgnfhs.org.uk > > >

Graham William <robert.williams438@ntlworld.co.uk> wrote: Little do these [Welsh nationalist] wallahs know that weve been speaking english in Cardiff for at least 350 years.(all of the Cardiff St;Johns Registers are written in English,and they go back to 1631) These same Welsh nationalist Wallah,s have invented their own language,on what they call themselves.Ive seen some of them called "derric instead of derek. or ffrancis. also some have gone for the ap version. ================= Dear Graham, Surely there is false logic in your argument? Some old parish register entries were written in ecclesiastical Latin, but we do not draw from this the conclusion that Latin was the language of the local people. Similarly, the fact that entries in the old registers for St John's parish Cardiff may have been written in English is not evidence that the local population spoke English. The registers were written in English because that was the language of the clergy and their bishops. Parish registers throughout Wales were written in English (or Latin), even in remote regions of Wales where few people spoke or understood English. You would need other evidence to support your claim that English has been the language of Cardiff for 350 years. As for using Welsh spellings of personal names, that is surely a matter of personal choice. Most languages have examples of the modification of the spellings of foreign words and names when they become incorporated into the language. For example, the Germanic name Willhelm became William after being introduced into England by the Normans. Source: "The Oxford Names Companion" by Patrick Hanks, Flavia Hodges, A. D. Mills, and Adrian Room, published in 2002 by Oxford University Press; ISBN 0-19-860561-7. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003

In a message dated 10/20/03 9:02:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: John, I read your comments and you are right. I have met many English in Wales that were not nice to the Welsh and yet I have two friends who are English-born that live in Wales and love it. I think anyone living in another country or another state has to be so careful and not compare the two. Naturally, you are going to love your homeland but if you live somewhere else, you must accept the differences, good or bad. When I was last in Britain, I found the people in both Wales and England to be so nice to a tourist - helpful, friendly and kind. People went out of their way to help me even when they didn't have to. I think that is the way it is all over the world. Annie > John Ball <wfha@clara.co.uk> wrote: > > I think the attitude of English immigrants towards their Welsh > > neighbours...... etc. > > ================== > > > > I must apologise for the annoying typographical errors which crept into > > my earlier message on the above topic. > > > > The corrected version of my message follows: > > > > I think the attitude of English immigrants towards their Welsh > > neighbours is the main reason they are sometimes not accepted. Harping > > on about how the English do things better, making jokes or complaining > > about the Welsh language, or even worse, treating Wales as if it were > > part of England, are guaranteed to cause hostility. We English have only > > ourselves to blame if we are not accepted when we move to a foreign > > land. > > I must say that I have never felt unwelcome in Wales. I have no known > > Welsh ancestors, but Wales is my home, and whenever I go away I feel the > > 'hiraeth' pulling me back. I no longer think of myself as an English > > exile, but rather as an adopted Welshman. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > John > > ---------------------------- > > John

Forgot to mention,Im regarded as a foreigner,as I dont speak da lingo. There,s lots of so called "Welsh Nationalist,s living in Cardiff today,these wallahs have taken courses in the welsh language,and have all suddenly become "Ifor Bach Types. Little do these wallahs know that weve been speaking english in Cardiff for at least 350 years.[all of the Cardiff St;Johns Registers are written in English,and they go back to 1631] My great,great,great,great,grand-parents- Jonathan Lewis and Sarah Harrison got hitched in the above church in 1825,but Im still regarded as a foreigner. These same Welsh nationalist Wallah,s have invented their own language,on what they call themselves.Ive seen some of them called "derric instead of derek. or ffrancis. also some have gone for the ap version. maybe i should be robert[or graham]ap daffyd,ap artur,ap daffyd,ap tomus,ap daffyd. Graham Williams. Glam;FHS;#551. of Canton,Cardiff.

Hi all.Ive been reading the letters about the above.Ive been regarded as a "Foreigner"To Wales as long as I can remember. Graham Williams. Glam;FHS;#551. of Canton,Cardiff.

Hi Annie You're being too kind to the author methinks. My reference to being speechless was intended to show my deep disgust at such a crass display of racial, religious and class prejudice which shouts at you from every line he wrote. Of course we don't know what else he said, maybe he was suffering from haemorrhoids that particular day after sitting on his horse too long. But give him the benefit of the doubt on this evidence ? Not likely ! I can claim dual W/E nationality and am married to an English gal, so I am uniquely placed to freely criticise either nationality without feeling overly guilty. But would I play for Wales or England at rugby given the choice - what a silly question :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cardi2@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:39 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Gareth is speechless > In a message dated 10/19/03 8:01:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > Gareth: I'm not certain I appreciate being considered a "devil" for having > (Calvinist) Methodist ancestors but the man in question has a right to his own > opinion. I presume that he came to Wales and wasn't treated the way he > thought he should have been. Unfortunately, some English are still doing that in > Wales - my cousins who live there tell me that. I still remember the Englishman > I met in a pub in Cenarth who told he had lived there for 20 years and hoped > someday to be accepted. > > As for George Barrow's book, I recommend that every American-Welsh read that > book. Although, Barrow is a bit opinionated, he writes about the countryside > and what he saw. On my first trip to Wales in 1989, I had decided against > going into North Wales but because I read Barrow's book, I went and saw many of > the places that he did and enjoyed myself. I would think it would be must > reading. > > Gareth, if you think the Welsh are prejudiced against or the English are, you > should live in the USA - we get it all the time. If you are a native > Californian, like me, its worse. I always say, if you don't like it here in > California, then go home. > > Annie > > > > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/HelpPagepearls.html#Description > > > > I'm speechless ! > > > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Dyfed FHS > http://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/ > > >