Thanks Irene for this useful piece of information below Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Phillips" <ken@khphillips.fsnet.co.uk> To: "Gareth" <gareth@tytwp.demon.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] land in Cilcennin? > Llansantffraed is a good bet. Part of Cilcennin was formerly in the parish > of Llansantffraed. The 1841 Tithe Map for Llansantffraed includes part of > Cilcennin as the "detached portion". > There are today the remains of a Mediaeval Open Field System in > Llansantffraed called Morfa Esgob. > > Irene > >

Hi Anna There are several references to places called Morva within Genuki, some in CGN. Go to any Genuki page, click on Contents (top of page) and use the Genuki Search engine. No hits for Lansanford or Esob. In fact I wonder if Lansanford is actually Llansanffraid ? Only two parishes away from Cilcennin. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llansanffraid/ If this doesn't help and no one else onlist comes up with any inspiration I suggest you run this passed Ceredigion Archives, they are very helpful. Contact address on my Help Page, link below, then under Archives Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anna Brown" <elijahf1@earthlink.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:20 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] land in Cilcennin? > Can anyone suggest where/how I could locate this land and its owners - > described in vague terms in this excerpt from the transcribed will of > Jenkin DAVIES(aka DAVIS or DAVID); he died in Lancaster County Pennsylvania > in 1747: > > Item I give and bequeath unto my well beloved wife Mary DAVIES a certain > messuage or tenement of land, which I have held and possessed in my native > land in the Parish of Kilkomin {Cilcennin?) in the County of Curdigun > {?Cardigan?} South Wales, and also two acres of land lying in Lansanford in > Morva [Esob] in the said County to have and to hold unto her during her > natural life and after her death to decend to my son Evan to be held by him > during his natural life, and after his death to decend to my son Zacheus to > {be} held by him during his natural life, and after the death of my son > Zacheus the said land to decend to my grandson David a child of my son Evan > to be held by him and his heirs forever, but if the said David dies without > issue the said land to decend to my grandson Isaac the eldest son of my son > Evan to be held by him and his heirs forever, and if both my grandchildren > David and Isaac aforesaid both die without issue, my will is that twenty > pounds current money of this province be paid to each of the above > daughters of my son Evan out of the rents of the said lands within ten > years after the death of my said grandchildren David and Isaac aforesaid by > the then possessor of the said land. also my will is that after the death > of the said David and Isaac without issue the said land to decend to the > eldest male issue of my son John to be held by him and his heirs forever. > but in case my son dies having no sons, the said land shall decend to my > grandson Jenkin a child of my son Zacheus to be held by him and his heirs > forever,. but if the said Jenkin dies leaving no issue the said land to > decend to my grandson Thomas another child of my son Zacheus to be held by > him and his heirs forever willing that the said land be not sold forever > out of my blood, I do by this my last will and testament > > > Anna > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > National Library of Wales > http://www.llgc.org.uk/ > >

Anna Brown <elijahf1@earthlink.net> wrote: Can anyone suggest where/how I could locate this land and its owners - described in vague terms in this excerpt from the transcribed will of Jenkin DAVIES(aka DAVIS or DAVID); he died in Lancaster County Pennsylvania in 1747.... (see extracts below) ==================== Dear Anna, I've extracted the specific references from the will, below: 1. "Parish of Kilkomin in the County of Curdigun South Wales" I agree with you that the most likely interpretation is Cilcennin, Cardigan(shire). According to Tallis's Topographical Dictionary, the area of Cilcennin parish was 3405 acres (circa 1850). 2. "Lansanford in Morva [Esob] in the said County" This is probably a reference to Morfa in the parish of Llansanffraid. There are farms called Morfa Mawr and Morfa Uchaf located about 1 mile south of the village of Llansanffraid. The approximate grid reference is 250400,265800 Go to the Old Maps website at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ On the opening page select the "Co-ordinates" option in the search facility (near top left of the page). In the search field enter the co-ordinates 250400,265800 (without any spaces) and click the Search button. When the small map appears, click on the "Enlarged view" button below the map. A highly detailed large map of the area will open in a new window, centred roughly between Morfa Uchaf and Morfa Mawr farms. You can save the enlarged view map to your hard disc by clicking on the map with your right mouse button and selecting the "Save Picture As..." option in the menu which appears. Morfa Mawr was described as a 450-acre farm in the 1881 census record, and is identified by name on the modern 1:50,000-scale Ordnance Survey Landranger map (sheet 135). Morfa Mawr *and* Morfa Uchaf are shown on the modern 1:25,000-scale Ordnance Survey Explorer map (sheet 198). The 1881 census has seven entries for Morfa Uchaf, two of which are described as uninhabited and the others occupied by farm labourers and their families. The southern border of Llansanffraid parish is less than 2 miles north of the northern border of Cilcennin parish. They are separated from each other by the parish of Llanbadarn Trefeglwys. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.557 / Virus Database: 349 - Release Date: 30/12/2003

Can anyone suggest where/how I could locate this land and its owners - described in vague terms in this excerpt from the transcribed will of Jenkin DAVIES(aka DAVIS or DAVID); he died in Lancaster County Pennsylvania in 1747: Item I give and bequeath unto my well beloved wife Mary DAVIES a certain messuage or tenement of land, which I have held and possessed in my native land in the Parish of Kilkomin {Cilcennin?) in the County of Curdigun {?Cardigan?} South Wales, and also two acres of land lying in Lansanford in Morva [Esob] in the said County to have and to hold unto her during her natural life and after her death to decend to my son Evan to be held by him during his natural life, and after his death to decend to my son Zacheus to {be} held by him during his natural life, and after the death of my son Zacheus the said land to decend to my grandson David a child of my son Evan to be held by him and his heirs forever, but if the said David dies without issue the said land to decend to my grandson Isaac the eldest son of my son Evan to be held by him and his heirs forever, and if both my grandchildren David and Isaac aforesaid both die without issue, my will is that twenty pounds current money of this province be paid to each of the above daughters of my son Evan out of the rents of the said lands within ten years after the death of my said grandchildren David and Isaac aforesaid by the then possessor of the said land. also my will is that after the death of the said David and Isaac without issue the said land to decend to the eldest male issue of my son John to be held by him and his heirs forever. but in case my son dies having no sons, the said land shall decend to my grandson Jenkin a child of my son Zacheus to be held by him and his heirs forever,. but if the said Jenkin dies leaving no issue the said land to decend to my grandson Thomas another child of my son Zacheus to be held by him and his heirs forever willing that the said land be not sold forever out of my blood, I do by this my last will and testament Anna

Thanks Julie, nice to have an LDS expert on hand :-) Never knowingly having been within 100 mls of an LDS centre I tend to overlook the LDS's BTs filming, especially when the online IGI has already been inspected. Perhaps the real mistake is to think they are one and the same. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Interest: ISAAC/JONES/EVANS Elsie, Gareth is correct, although you needn't hire a researcher to look through the original parish registers as the LDS have microfilmed the Bishop's Transcripts for the parish of Llanwenog, Cardiganshire, and you can order the microfilm from the nearest LDS Family History Center. I'm certain there's one in your area. It sounds as though you've only checked the IGI, thus far, in addition to the census returns which clearly indicate he was born in Llanwenog. From Thomas' 2nd marriage to Mary Watkins, you now have the very excellent 'clue' as his father's name was listed as Isaac EVANS, clearly showing the use of patronymics in this family. When viewing the Bishop's Transcripts, look for any/all baptisms to a father named Isaac EVANS, but also look for all children baptised to anyone with the forename Isaac, as the surname may not have been 'fixed'. Hopefully, you will begin to develop a family group and perhaps at least one child's baptism entry might indicate the dwelling (cottage/farm) name, which will be an added identifier for the family. The earlier marriage in Swansea will only show witnesses -- these are, very often, one relative (relationship not stated) and the other person was usually a parish clerk. One doesn't send to the GRO for a marriage "certificate" for pre-1837 marriages. You will find this marriage entry on the microfilm of the BT's for St. Mary's, Swansea, also available from the LDS. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsie Isaac" <elisaac@msn.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Interest: ISAAC/JONES/EVANS > Happy New Year Gareth and List! > > Thank you Gareth for your response and encouragement in sorting out this > messy Isaac/Evans family. > I believe I will send to the GRO for the St. Mary's marriage record for > Thomas ISAAC and Ann JONES. This may give me some more clues as the record > states there were witnesses and personal information. > > Does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable researcher I can go through > to look at the records of Llanwenog Parish? If so, please contact me off > list. I would greatly appreciate it. > > Elsie L Isaac > Bethlehem, PA USA > > Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! > Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work - and > yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Ceredigion Archives > email archives@ceredigion.gov.uk > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Ceredigion Archives email archives@ceredigion.gov.uk

Julie, Thank you so much for that information. I don't know why I didn't think of the LDS. I think I've become somewhat brain dead when it comes to this particular line of the family as it seems I've been trying to get past Thomas forever! We have a FHC about 10 minutes away from me, and I've ordered many films from them. I guess it's time to take a trip again to order more films! Thanks again for your help! I greatly appreciate it! Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

Happy New Year Gareth and List! Thank you Gareth for your response and encouragement in sorting out this messy Isaac/Evans family. I believe I will send to the GRO for the St. Mary's marriage record for Thomas ISAAC and Ann JONES. This may give me some more clues as the record states there were witnesses and personal information. Does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable researcher I can go through to look at the records of Llanwenog Parish? If so, please contact me off list. I would greatly appreciate it. Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

Hi Elsie I hope that someone else will jump in with some suggestions for you, perhaps when the New Year is out of the way. I have now had the chance to look back at our previous off list exchanges and can see little reason to change my final suggestion which was that you (or someone paid by you) needed to go through the Llanwenog parish registers for the period to get a picture of what possible baptisms may exist for your Thomas. Hang on to the fact that he indicated on several census returns that he was born in Llanwnog. Don't forget the possibility that they were dissenters. As a general comment I expect that other people have the same difficulty as I do, which is to convince myself that an indicated backward route via patronymic assumptions is 100% certain in the absence of some other supporting factors. Don't despair............ yet :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsie Isaac" <elisaac@msn.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Interest: ISAAC/JONES/EVANS A Happy and Prosperous New Year to all Listers!! Gareth suggested that I repost my interests with "facts" as I know them, so here is the little bit that I know as "fact". My GGGF, Thomas ISAAC married Ann JONES. Death Certificate: Ann ISAAC (nee JONES) died on 5/10/1843 at the age of 33 in Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil Lower, GLA. The death cert states "Wife of Thomas Isaac, Mason" (This is where they were living in the 1841 census) Thomas ISAAC then married Mary WATKINS. Marriage Certificate 17/8/1844: Thomas ISAAC, full age, Widower, Mason, Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil, Father: Isaac EVANS, Mason Mary WATKINS, full age, Spinster, Dowlais, Father: David WATKINS, Sawyer Death Certificate 28/5/1875 Thomas ISAACS, Male, 67 Years, Mason, 9 Tre Evans Rhymney, MON. Thomas ISAACS, Son in attendance. (This is where they were living in the 1871 census) The following information is NOT "fact", as I have found no actual proof: All the census returns from 1851-1871 state that Thomas ISAAC was born in Llanwenog, CGN sometime around 1807-1808. (This is confirmed by his age at death in 1875) The 1841 GLA census states that he was not born in Glamorgan. The 1841 GLA census listed Ann ISAAC (nee JONES) as being born around 1811. (Her age at death in 1843 was 33 years, making her birth 1809-1810. This was the only census she was alive for. The 1841 GLA census also stated that she was not born in Glamorgan. Information from Gareth, but not verified through the GRO: >According to the GlA FHS pre 1837 marriage index Thomas Isaac married Ann Jones, both of St Marys Swansea, in that parish, on 29 Nov 1832 (PBW)< I have not been able to find proof of birth of my Thomas ISAAC. I think I may be running into the name problem as his father is listed as Isaac EVANS. Thomas's son, my GGF, was named Herbert Lloyd ISAAC. I have found an Isaac EVANS married to Jane LLOYD in the IGI for Llanwenog, CGN. It appears that this information was submitted by a researcher. It lists (7) children for this couple, (2) of them being named Thomas EVANS, one in 1802 and the other in 1808. I would assume that maybe the first Thomas died in infancy. I would appreciate any help or suggestions that anyone would be willing to offer in trying to sort this mess out. Truthfully, I'm very happy to have gotten this far as I only knew who my Grandparents were a year ago. If anyone can connect to any of these people, I'd love to hear from you!! Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work - and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Gareth's Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html

Elsie, At the same time, it might be a good idea to order the microfilm of the 1798 Land Tax Assessments for Cardiganshire, in hopes that your Isaac EVANS may be identified as the 'Occupier' of a specific property. Of course, he may not have married yet (look for his marriage to Thomas' mother in the BT's, as well) and his father may have been the occupier -- you'll have to be fairly creative on this point as, if the family was consistent with patronymics, his father may have been Evan XXX (maybe ISAAC's, for instance). Go through the BT's with an eye for the *burial* entries of Thomas' parents, as well. If they were still alive in 1841, you'll want to order the microfilm of the 1841 Census for Llanwenog. Also, if you can determine when Thomas' father died, you should look for a will in the St. David's Will Indexes -- also on microfilm from the LDS. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsie Isaac" <elisaac@msn.com> To: <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> Cc: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Interest: ISAAC/JONES/EVANS > Julie, > > Thank you so much for that information. I don't know why I didn't think of > the LDS. I think I've become somewhat brain dead when it comes to this > particular line of the family as it seems I've been trying to get past > Thomas forever! > We have a FHC about 10 minutes away from me, and I've ordered many films > from them. I guess it's time to take a trip again to order more films! > Thanks again for your help! I greatly appreciate it! > > Elsie L Isaac > Bethlehem, PA USA > > Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! > Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup >

Marion I'm forwarding your message to the genealogy mailing lists that cover Cardiganshire, someone on there may be able to help you. Responses direct to Marion on foster_1@ihug.co.nz and copy to the lists please. BTW Marion, have you read the piece on Ystrad Meurig school on http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/TheoColl.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Foster" <foster_1@ihug.co.nz> To: "Gareth Hicks" <tirbach@clara.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: Problem or comment on GENUKI page > Dear Gareth Hicks, > This originates from the Cardiganshire page > [] > The user is at proxy3.ihug.co.nz, > using browser Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98). > > dear gareth > i am marion foster from south canterbury in new zealand. we are visiting yastrad meurig on the12 may 2004. my husband and i would like to be able to visit your grammar school as my 4x great grand father and his brothers attended this school about 1750s, also, one of them the rev. john williams was master of the schhol for 40 years. (starting in 1778) and in 1778 was succeeded by his son the venerable archdeacon john williams. we understand that you have at least one portrait of one of these men and would like to view and photograph them. (we have already inherited 3 family portrates, one of which we cannot identify. > if you can not assist us can you please direct us to someone who can. > > From, > Marion Foster <foster_1@ihug.co.nz> > > >

Elsie, Gareth is correct, although you needn't hire a researcher to look through the original parish registers as the LDS have microfilmed the Bishop's Transcripts for the parish of Llanwenog, Cardiganshire, and you can order the microfilm from the nearest LDS Family History Center. I'm certain there's one in your area. It sounds as though you've only checked the IGI, thus far, in addition to the census returns which clearly indicate he was born in Llanwenog. From Thomas' 2nd marriage to Mary Watkins, you now have the very excellent 'clue' as his father's name was listed as Isaac EVANS, clearly showing the use of patronymics in this family. When viewing the Bishop's Transcripts, look for any/all baptisms to a father named Isaac EVANS, but also look for all children baptised to anyone with the forename Isaac, as the surname may not have been 'fixed'. Hopefully, you will begin to develop a family group and perhaps at least one child's baptism entry might indicate the dwelling (cottage/farm) name, which will be an added identifier for the family. The earlier marriage in Swansea will only show witnesses -- these are, very often, one relative (relationship not stated) and the other person was usually a parish clerk. One doesn't send to the GRO for a marriage "certificate" for pre-1837 marriages. You will find this marriage entry on the microfilm of the BT's for St. Mary's, Swansea, also available from the LDS. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsie Isaac" <elisaac@msn.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Interest: ISAAC/JONES/EVANS > Happy New Year Gareth and List! > > Thank you Gareth for your response and encouragement in sorting out this > messy Isaac/Evans family. > I believe I will send to the GRO for the St. Mary's marriage record for > Thomas ISAAC and Ann JONES. This may give me some more clues as the record > states there were witnesses and personal information. > > Does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable researcher I can go through > to look at the records of Llanwenog Parish? If so, please contact me off > list. I would greatly appreciate it. > > Elsie L Isaac > Bethlehem, PA USA > > Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! > Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and > yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Ceredigion Archives > email archives@ceredigion.gov.uk >

A Happy and Prosperous New Year to all Listers!! Gareth suggested that I repost my interests with "facts" as I know them, so here is the little bit that I know as "fact". My GGGF, Thomas ISAAC married Ann JONES. Death Certificate: Ann ISAAC (nee JONES) died on 5/10/1843 at the age of 33 in Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil Lower, GLA. The death cert states "Wife of Thomas Isaac, Mason" (This is where they were living in the 1841 census) Thomas ISAAC then married Mary WATKINS. Marriage Certificate 17/8/1844: Thomas ISAAC, full age, Widower, Mason, Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil, Father: Isaac EVANS, Mason Mary WATKINS, full age, Spinster, Dowlais, Father: David WATKINS, Sawyer Death Certificate 28/5/1875 Thomas ISAACS, Male, 67 Years, Mason, 9 Tre Evans Rhymney, MON. Thomas ISAACS, Son in attendance. (This is where they were living in the 1871 census) The following information is NOT "fact", as I have found no actual proof: All the census returns from 1851-1871 state that Thomas ISAAC was born in Llanwenog, CGN sometime around 1807-1808. (This is confirmed by his age at death in 1875) The 1841 GLA census states that he was not born in Glamorgan. The 1841 GLA census listed Ann ISAAC (nee JONES) as being born around 1811. (Her age at death in 1843 was 33 years, making her birth 1809-1810. This was the only census she was alive for. The 1841 GLA census also stated that she was not born in Glamorgan. Information from Gareth, but not verified through the GRO: >According to the GlA FHS pre 1837 marriage index Thomas Isaac married Ann Jones, both of St Marys Swansea, in that parish, on 29 Nov 1832 (PBW)< I have not been able to find proof of birth of my Thomas ISAAC. I think I may be running into the name problem as his father is listed as Isaac EVANS. Thomas's son, my GGF, was named Herbert Lloyd ISAAC. I have found an Isaac EVANS married to Jane LLOYD in the IGI for Llanwenog, CGN. It appears that this information was submitted by a researcher. It lists (7) children for this couple, (2) of them being named Thomas EVANS, one in 1802 and the other in 1808. I would assume that maybe the first Thomas died in infancy. I would appreciate any help or suggestions that anyone would be willing to offer in trying to sort this mess out. Truthfully, I'm very happy to have gotten this far as I only knew who my Grandparents were a year ago. If anyone can connect to any of these people, I'd love to hear from you!! Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

I'd like to wish all listers a very happy and successful 2004; may a few more of those brick walls come tumbling down Thank you all for supporting the lists over the last 12 months Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Annie, Thanks for the info but unfortunately I didn't see any link into my tree nor the tree I have for Morgan Herbert. <<Andrew, did you once live in Sweden?>> Did and still do :-) <<I corresponded with someone a couple of years ago who lived in Sweden.>> Quite possible, but I lost a lot of emails some time ago so I can't say for certain. Thanks again. Andrew > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [WLS-CGN] Re: Herbert > From: > Cardi2@aol.com > Date: > Mon, 29 Dec 2003 00:13:33 EST > To: > WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > > >Andrew Wallace asked me for the information I had on the Herbert line. I'm >including it on the list to help others. > >Thomas Herbert of Gogoyan, Pensingrig and Pantycefn, Llanddewi Brefi (LDB) >was bapt 1766-1770 in Llanarth. He was bur 12 Mar 1861. He was a direct >descendant of Morgan Herbert of Rhiwbren, Llanarth. (My cousin had difficulty in >finding Thomas in the family until he realized that he was born 5 years earlier >than he thought.) > >Thomas married Margaret Edwards, dau of David Edwards of Mynydd, LDB, 31 Dec >1802 by banns LDB Church. She was bapt 22 Dec 1779 and bur 1853 on Cefnbedd >Farm. > >They had children: >David 1805-1830 >Catherine 1807 >Thomas 1809-1878 (see below) >Owen 1812 >John 1814 may have married Anne Jones of Goytre, Nantcwnlle 24 Jun 1842. >Elziabeth 1816 married Evan Jones Tynllwyn 1849 >Margaret 1821-1905 m. David Jones (my cousin's family) >Morgan c1821 > >Thomas Herbert of Cefnbedd was a hosier born 1809 died 1878. His wife was >Elinor Lloyd 1809-1895. She is buried with her husband in the LDB Graveyard >although her name is not on the stone. This was verified a number of years ago >by Vicar Williams. > >They had three children: >David 1837-1894, a tailor, died in Mountain Ash, GLA > >Margaret 1841 - she married Henry Jones. Died young. > >William Lloyd 1842-1893 died in Mountain Ash, GLA. A grocer. > >All the children had issue. > >Elinor Lloyd was my great-grandfather's older sister. > >As a child, I was told by my father, his brothers, and other family members >that we were related to someone who was horsebackriding instructor to the Royal >Family of England. That's the Earl of Pembroke. > >My cousin, just before he died, wrote me to tell me that he had proven that >he was related to the Earl of Pembroke thru the Morgan Herbert and so was I, >since my cousin and I were third cousins on one side and ended up second cousins >on another. > >Andrew, did you once live in Sweden? I corresponded with someone a couple of >years ago who lived in Sweden. Just curious. > >Hope I have helped you. > >Annie >. > >

Hi Elsie Sorry, I can barely remember the original query, apart from the question of patronymics vis a vis the Evans and Isaac names. Whatever, what you now say is confusing so could I suggest you lay out onlist what you know for a *fact*, with the exact sources. The 'about' suggests they are birth year estimates and not the usual baptism entries extracted from BTs, so presumably the input not by the LDS itself. From someone else's research efforts then, need double checking to the PRs. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsie Isaac" <elisaac@msn.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Isaac EVANS/Jane LLOYD-Llanwenog Hello Again Gareth, Sorry to bother you with this again, but I'm in search of answers. The Isaac EVANS and Jane LLOYD I found in Llanwenog Parish, CGN. The (7) children listed only have "About" for their birth years, and they are all listed as being born in Llangothen, CMN. I went to the IGI Batch records for Llangothen Parish and found none of these children listed under the names EVANS or ISAAC(s). I did find (2) of the children's names listed in the original (7) Christened in Llanwenog, CGN with the parents of Isaac EVAN and Jane, but the years don't match the original list. Is there any way to be sure that this is the correct Isaac EVANS I'm looking for? And do you have any suggestions as to how to find out what children they had? Being here in the State is a real bummer sometimes!! I'd appreciate any suggestions you can give me as I'm stuck in this spot. Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work - and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== Gareth's Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html

Hello Again Gareth, Sorry to bother you with this again, but I'm in search of answers. The Isaac EVANS and Jane LLOYD I found in Llanwenog Parish, CGN. The (7) children listed only have "About" for their birth years, and they are all listed as being born in Llangothen, CMN. I went to the IGI Batch records for Llangothen Parish and found none of these children listed under the names EVANS or ISAAC(s). I did find (2) of the children's names listed in the original (7) Christened in Llanwenog, CGN with the parents of Isaac EVAN and Jane, but the years don't match the original list. Is there any way to be sure that this is the correct Isaac EVANS I'm looking for? And do you have any suggestions as to how to find out what children they had? Being here in the State is a real bummer sometimes!! I'd appreciate any suggestions you can give me as I'm stuck in this spot. Elsie L Isaac Bethlehem, PA USA Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!! Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free! _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

Andrew Wallace asked me for the information I had on the Herbert line. I'm including it on the list to help others. Thomas Herbert of Gogoyan, Pensingrig and Pantycefn, Llanddewi Brefi (LDB) was bapt 1766-1770 in Llanarth. He was bur 12 Mar 1861. He was a direct descendant of Morgan Herbert of Rhiwbren, Llanarth. (My cousin had difficulty in finding Thomas in the family until he realized that he was born 5 years earlier than he thought.) Thomas married Margaret Edwards, dau of David Edwards of Mynydd, LDB, 31 Dec 1802 by banns LDB Church. She was bapt 22 Dec 1779 and bur 1853 on Cefnbedd Farm. They had children: David 1805-1830 Catherine 1807 Thomas 1809-1878 (see below) Owen 1812 John 1814 may have married Anne Jones of Goytre, Nantcwnlle 24 Jun 1842. Elziabeth 1816 married Evan Jones Tynllwyn 1849 Margaret 1821-1905 m. David Jones (my cousin's family) Morgan c1821 Thomas Herbert of Cefnbedd was a hosier born 1809 died 1878. His wife was Elinor Lloyd 1809-1895. She is buried with her husband in the LDB Graveyard although her name is not on the stone. This was verified a number of years ago by Vicar Williams. They had three children: David 1837-1894, a tailor, died in Mountain Ash, GLA Margaret 1841 - she married Henry Jones. Died young. William Lloyd 1842-1893 died in Mountain Ash, GLA. A grocer. All the children had issue. Elinor Lloyd was my great-grandfather's older sister. As a child, I was told by my father, his brothers, and other family members that we were related to someone who was horsebackriding instructor to the Royal Family of England. That's the Earl of Pembroke. My cousin, just before he died, wrote me to tell me that he had proven that he was related to the Earl of Pembroke thru the Morgan Herbert and so was I, since my cousin and I were third cousins on one side and ended up second cousins on another. Andrew, did you once live in Sweden? I corresponded with someone a couple of years ago who lived in Sweden. Just curious. Hope I have helped you. Annie .

Forwarded for the Glamlist admins Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jill Muir" <jill@muir.clara.co.uk> To: <DYFED-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:48 PM Subject: [Dyfed] Glamorgan Certificates Hello Listers, With Gareth's permission I wish to let you know of a 'new' web site, which is in its infancy and for the time, being anyhow is called 'Glamorgan Certificates' This is a database of certificates, wills and photographs owned principally by Glamorgan Rootsweb List members. The site exists to help others researching families in Glamorgan or the rest of Wales and of course you are all very welcome to take a look through the site. If you wish register and add any certificates or photographs we would be very pleased. The more the merrier of course. The site can be found at:- http://www.ukgen.com/forums/glamorgan/ Cheers Jill Joint List Administrator for the Glamorgan Mailing List See List outline at:- http://www.muir.clara.net/glamorgan ==== DYFED Mailing List ==== South/West Wales Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html

Hello, Andrew, Just picked up my mail and see that you're enquiring about the vast Herbert clan of Cardiganshire! I thought I'd jump in, if you don't mind me adding my penny's worth! I've done a bit of work on my Herbert-s, who seem to have come from a tiny village called Llangwyryfon near Aberystwyth. I have them there in late 16th century. From there a branch went to the adjoining village of Lledrod, where there are Herbert-s to this day and to whom I'm related. There are a lot buried in the churchyard there. My branch of Herbert-s then went a little south to Llangeitho, where we still have a farm which is owned by my cousin, a Herbert, to this day. There are female descendents of this family living all around the area. Yes, my own maternal grandmother was CONVINCED there was a connection to the Earls of Pembroke and the aristocracy. The old house of Hafod is central to any enquiry on the Herbert-s in this respect. You've no doubt joined the Cards Family History soc: Dr Evan James has done a lot of work on the Herbert-s of Cards. There is a Thomas Herbert in my Llangwyryfon Herbert family. Feel free to contact me off list if you want any of my notes. regards, Laura DAVIES. (Bridgend). --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

Annie, Thanks for the email. <<My late cousin who had this line told me that all the Herberts in Cardiganshire came out of the Herbert family of Rhiwbren, Llanarth Parish, CGN.>> I don't know if it is really all the HERBERTs in Cardiganshire, but if its not then it is most likely most. The people I have talked to think that all the HERBERTs in and around Llanarth are descended from Morgan HERBERT who died 1643. He had a number of children but to my knowledge only two lines have been researched with any certainty. <<There is supposed to be some relationship to the Earl of Pembroke.>> Morgan HERBERT was descended from Sir Richard Herbert, the brother to the 1st Earl of Pembroke. <<The family that I am related to was headed by Thomas Herbert of Llanddewi Brefi, CGN.>> That sounds interesting. Thomas is a name that is in my tree as well. As name inheritance is common (although not absolute) there could be some link here with my tree. Is your tree avalible? Thanks Andrew