Thanks Aidan, I guess that makes toast of my loaf theory :-) Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aidan Jones" <acjj@clara.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy, Rhydydorth & maps, etc. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gareth" <gareth@tytwp.demon.co.uk> > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > > > Julie suggested > > <you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is > > (probably Cardiganshire). > > Rhydydorth, Llanon, possibly? > > You can find it by typing Rhydydorth (or alternatively Rhyd-y-dorth) > and then choosing the Address option (not the Place Name option) in the > database at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ (It is not necessary to know the > full address.) > > If you think it is the correct place, you can then go on to view on that > same site > > (1) Rhydydorth on the Ordnance Survey map of 1891 > (2) Rhydydorth on a modern map > (3) Rhydydorth in a modern aerial view. > > Although the above site is officially about 19th century Ordnance Survey > maps, you can actually use it for far more than that - including checking > whether a particular address is still in use today. > > Personally, I very often find this is an easier way of checking today's > postcodes than by using the official Royal Mail website at > > https://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/postcodefinder > > which then requires a registration procedure. > > AJ > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Rootsweb list archives[ threaded] > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/WLS-Cardiganshire-L/ > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth" <gareth@tytwp.demon.co.uk> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > Julie suggested > <you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is > (probably Cardiganshire). Rhydydorth, Llanon, possibly? You can find it by typing Rhydydorth (or alternatively Rhyd-y-dorth) and then choosing the Address option (not the Place Name option) in the database at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ (It is not necessary to know the full address.) If you think it is the correct place, you can then go on to view on that same site (1) Rhydydorth on the Ordnance Survey map of 1891 (2) Rhydydorth on a modern map (3) Rhydydorth in a modern aerial view. Although the above site is officially about 19th century Ordnance Survey maps, you can actually use it for far more than that - including checking whether a particular address is still in use today. Personally, I very often find this is an easier way of checking today's postcodes than by using the official Royal Mail website at https://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/postcodefinder which then requires a registration procedure. AJ

Julie suggested <you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is (probably Cardiganshire). Rhyd is a ford, dorth is a loaf (mutated torth). More likely dorth should read borth (mutated porth), which is a doorway, port etc. Rhyd-y-borth sounds right and also vaguely familiar but I can't see it it on my maps of the Borth area in CGN . Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > Kathi, > > In the book I mentioned, "Calvinists Incorporated", this family is mentioned > in the listing and it clearly states Anne was of "Rhyd-y-dorth". This > pertains to the David Jones and wife Anne who emigrated in 1838 from > Benglog, Llandeiniol. This lists children as: Mary, John D.W., David, > Margaret and sister [presumably the sister of David] Ann. If "Anna" (nee > Jerman?) is this David's wife, you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is > (probably Cardiganshire). > > The children born in the 1830's wouldn't have fallen (within the IGI) under > the presupposed patronymic system so would've been listed with the parents' > proper surname. > > Have you purchased "Welsh Family History, A Guide to Research" (2nd edition, > pub. 1998), Ed. by John & Sheila Rowlands, ISBN 1 86006 065 X, pub. by the > Federation of Family History Societies and the authors? If you haven't, I > *strongly* recommend you do. You can purchase it online from > www.genealogybookshop.com > This book explains the peculiarities of Welsh research, including the > problems involved with the IGI for Wales. > > JERMAN is not equivalent to HERMAN -- no. > > From "The Surnames of Wales" (also by John & Sheila Rowlands: > > "JARMAN > Jarman is a variant of German, from the Latin 'germanus', 'kinsman'. An > older pronuciation of modern English '-er' is '-ar'....and the same name is > found as Jermin, Jermyn/e. Examples of the latter are found in > Pembrokeshire: Alson and John Jermyn are in Gumfreston (Pembrokeshire) in > 1543; the name is found widely in Narberth hundred throughout 17C. In the > eastern border counties, the name is also long-established: Giles Jerman, > Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire, appears on a 1596 tax list (E.R. Morris, 1982) > and the name spread in Montgomeryshire and Radnorshire. > 1813-37: Found fairly widely across mid Wales and down into Monmouthshire. > It is particularly prominent on the border between Montgomeryshire > (Llanidloes 2%) and Radnorshire (Rhaeadr 0.7%)." > > So, actually, this gives you another angle since the name was also found in > Pembrokeshire (Narberth hundred) if you don't find anything in > Montgomeryshire. > > As for the names of the sons and looking for David's baptism, it would make > sense for the first-born to have been named after his father so, going on > that assumption (with nothing else to go on), you'd be looking for a baptism > in the IGI of a David Jones, son of anyone with the first name John (i.e., > John = Jones) and probably the surname Jones. > > You've got it for Anna -- Anna (Anne)DAVIES/DAVID, daughter of anyone with > the first name of David but, hopefully, with the surname JERMAN (or > variant). > > Have you found the baptisms in Wales for the 4 sons you've named? You > really should locate those baptisms *and* the marriage entry of this couple > before going on to look for the baptisms of David Jones and Anna Jerman. > Any children born after July 1837 will have Anna's maiden name in the entry. > Their marriage presumably took place prior to July 1837 so won't have their > fathers' names but you'll now have something to look for if her surname > really was JERMAN. > > Always work backward through available documentation and don't skip events. > Believe me, I say that in all humility, having made every possible mistake > known to researchers in my early days of this! > > Good luck. > > Regards, > > Julie Preston > juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> > To: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > > > Julie, you have not "further confused me", you have given me the first > > "a-ha" moment in a long time in this research!! Yes, of course I was > aware > > of the patronymic naming system, but I had not thought to apply it. > > (Feeling a little foolish, but overwhelmingly excited about applying this > to > > the families I haven't been able to trace! > > > > The one family that a distanst cousin DID trace back to the farm "Benglog" > > in Llanddeiniol in the early 1800's did not seem to be doing this when > the > > first "batch" of children were born, but they weren't born until 1833, so > it > > makes perfect sense! > > > > Additionally, you have explained it more clearly than anything I have > read, > > so THANK YOU!! > > > > Yes, I have wondered about that "Benjamin Franklin" part myself! If their > > family was all in tact in the 1850 census of Gallia County, their first > son > > was John, and the second was David, third was Daniel and fourth was > > Benjamin. So, if I understand what you have said, I should look first for > > Anna Davies/Davis, right? Born to David Jerman/Jarman. > > > > Is Jarman?Jerman equivilent to our "Herman"? > > > > And the father of Benjamin and all was named David Jones, so I am to > assume > > I am looking for David Jones, son of John Jones? Or have I got that part > > wrong? > > > > Sorry for so many questions! It's just that I am so excited about what > this > > might mean for breaking through a couple of my "brick walls > > > > Thanks, again, > > Kathi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Dyfed FHS > http://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/ > >

Kathi, In the book I mentioned, "Calvinists Incorporated", this family is mentioned in the listing and it clearly states Anne was of "Rhyd-y-dorth". This pertains to the David Jones and wife Anne who emigrated in 1838 from Benglog, Llandeiniol. This lists children as: Mary, John D.W., David, Margaret and sister [presumably the sister of David] Ann. If "Anna" (nee Jerman?) is this David's wife, you need to find out where "Rhyd-y-dorth" is (probably Cardiganshire). The children born in the 1830's wouldn't have fallen (within the IGI) under the presupposed patronymic system so would've been listed with the parents' proper surname. Have you purchased "Welsh Family History, A Guide to Research" (2nd edition, pub. 1998), Ed. by John & Sheila Rowlands, ISBN 1 86006 065 X, pub. by the Federation of Family History Societies and the authors? If you haven't, I *strongly* recommend you do. You can purchase it online from www.genealogybookshop.com This book explains the peculiarities of Welsh research, including the problems involved with the IGI for Wales. JERMAN is not equivalent to HERMAN -- no. From "The Surnames of Wales" (also by John & Sheila Rowlands: "JARMAN Jarman is a variant of German, from the Latin 'germanus', 'kinsman'. An older pronuciation of modern English '-er' is '-ar'....and the same name is found as Jermin, Jermyn/e. Examples of the latter are found in Pembrokeshire: Alson and John Jermyn are in Gumfreston (Pembrokeshire) in 1543; the name is found widely in Narberth hundred throughout 17C. In the eastern border counties, the name is also long-established: Giles Jerman, Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire, appears on a 1596 tax list (E.R. Morris, 1982) and the name spread in Montgomeryshire and Radnorshire. 1813-37: Found fairly widely across mid Wales and down into Monmouthshire. It is particularly prominent on the border between Montgomeryshire (Llanidloes 2%) and Radnorshire (Rhaeadr 0.7%)." So, actually, this gives you another angle since the name was also found in Pembrokeshire (Narberth hundred) if you don't find anything in Montgomeryshire. As for the names of the sons and looking for David's baptism, it would make sense for the first-born to have been named after his father so, going on that assumption (with nothing else to go on), you'd be looking for a baptism in the IGI of a David Jones, son of anyone with the first name John (i.e., John = Jones) and probably the surname Jones. You've got it for Anna -- Anna (Anne)DAVIES/DAVID, daughter of anyone with the first name of David but, hopefully, with the surname JERMAN (or variant). Have you found the baptisms in Wales for the 4 sons you've named? You really should locate those baptisms *and* the marriage entry of this couple before going on to look for the baptisms of David Jones and Anna Jerman. Any children born after July 1837 will have Anna's maiden name in the entry. Their marriage presumably took place prior to July 1837 so won't have their fathers' names but you'll now have something to look for if her surname really was JERMAN. Always work backward through available documentation and don't skip events. Believe me, I say that in all humility, having made every possible mistake known to researchers in my early days of this! Good luck. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> To: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > Julie, you have not "further confused me", you have given me the first > "a-ha" moment in a long time in this research!! Yes, of course I was aware > of the patronymic naming system, but I had not thought to apply it. > (Feeling a little foolish, but overwhelmingly excited about applying this to > the families I haven't been able to trace! > > The one family that a distanst cousin DID trace back to the farm "Benglog" > in Llanddeiniol in the early 1800's did not seem to be doing this when the > first "batch" of children were born, but they weren't born until 1833, so it > makes perfect sense! > > Additionally, you have explained it more clearly than anything I have read, > so THANK YOU!! > > Yes, I have wondered about that "Benjamin Franklin" part myself! If their > family was all in tact in the 1850 census of Gallia County, their first son > was John, and the second was David, third was Daniel and fourth was > Benjamin. So, if I understand what you have said, I should look first for > Anna Davies/Davis, right? Born to David Jerman/Jarman. > > Is Jarman?Jerman equivilent to our "Herman"? > > And the father of Benjamin and all was named David Jones, so I am to assume > I am looking for David Jones, son of John Jones? Or have I got that part > wrong? > > Sorry for so many questions! It's just that I am so excited about what this > might mean for breaking through a couple of my "brick walls > > Thanks, again, > Kathi > > > > >

Kathi, You won't find her using the IGI under the surname JERMAN/GERMAN/JARMAN, as the IGI for Wales presupposes everyone used the patronymic naming system until 1812. Therefore, it would help if you knew all of her sons names, especially the eldest two, if she had more than one. Usually, the first son was named for the paternal grandfather and the 2nd son was named for the maternal grandfather. Thus, for instance, if Anna's 2nd son was named Thomas you might look for a baptism ca. 1794 of an Anna THOMAS. When you click on the entry, the father's name will be the first name Thomas and, hopefully, one with the surname of JERMAN, if I'm right. Or, you might look for an Anna BENJAMIN with the father named Benjamin JERMAN. Very likely in the Llanidloes/Llangurig area (and surrounds). Hope I haven't confused you too much. Was this Anna also in the Jackson & Gallia Counties of Ohio? Do you have the book, "Calvinists Incorporated" by Anne Kelly Knowles, written about the migration of Welsh to those counties? There was also an earlier migration of Welsh from the Llanbrynmair area of Montgomeryshire in the 1790's to what was then called "Paddy's Run" in Butler County. I believe a later group was also formed from the same area so perhaps your Anna and her husband and child was among them. Odd that their son was named "Benjamin Franklin" Jones if he was born in Wales -- perhaps they had a good grasp of American history before they emigrated. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> To: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > Thank you, Julie!! This is quite possible. I checked the IGI for entries > with the name Anna German and there are a lot of possibilities. Since most > of my ancestors came from the same region in Cardiganshire, I think I was > limiting myself to there. I will expand the search, now. Thanks, again! > > Kathi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> > To: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net>; > <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:10 PM > Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > > > > > Kathi, > > > > Perhaps the name got muddled by whomever provided it later (was it listed, > > for instance, on Benjamin's death certificate?) --- I would suggest it may > > have been Jerman/German (most often found in Montgomeryshire)? > > > > Regards, > > > > Julie Preston > > juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> > > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:21 PM > > Subject: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > > > > > > > Greetings, all, > > > > > > I have received a copy of the death certificate of my gr-gr-grandfather, > > Benjamin Franklin Jones, born Jan 5,1835, in Wales. (Most likely a > > Cardiganshire birth.) My question comes from his mother's birth name, > > though. She is listed as Anna Germancy or Jermancy, born in Wales. From > > Ohio census and cemetery records, I know that she was born Abt. 1794. I > do > > not know where, so am sending to the Dyfed list as well as Cardiganshire. > > Sorry for the cross-posting. > > > > > > Have any of you come across this name? It seems unusual to me. What a > > relief to have a Welsh name other than Jones and Griffiths and Evans!! LOL > > A quick check on the Family Search site came up empty. > > > > > > I appreciate any and all replies, off list or on. Thanks in advance. > > > Kathi Jenkins Elliott > > > > > > Searching Jenkins, Jones, Griffiths, Davies, Edwards, Williams, > Richards, > > Evans who emigrated to Jackson and Gallia Counties of Ohio. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > > Ceredigion Archives > > > email archives@ceredigion.gov.uk > > > > > > > > > > > >

Kathi, Perhaps the name got muddled by whomever provided it later (was it listed, for instance, on Benjamin's death certificate?) --- I would suggest it may have been Jerman/German (most often found in Montgomeryshire)? Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Anna Germancy of Wales? (cross-posting) > Greetings, all, > > I have received a copy of the death certificate of my gr-gr-grandfather, Benjamin Franklin Jones, born Jan 5,1835, in Wales. (Most likely a Cardiganshire birth.) My question comes from his mother's birth name, though. She is listed as Anna Germancy or Jermancy, born in Wales. From Ohio census and cemetery records, I know that she was born Abt. 1794. I do not know where, so am sending to the Dyfed list as well as Cardiganshire. Sorry for the cross-posting. > > Have any of you come across this name? It seems unusual to me. What a relief to have a Welsh name other than Jones and Griffiths and Evans!! LOL A quick check on the Family Search site came up empty. > > I appreciate any and all replies, off list or on. Thanks in advance. > Kathi Jenkins Elliott > > Searching Jenkins, Jones, Griffiths, Davies, Edwards, Williams, Richards, Evans who emigrated to Jackson and Gallia Counties of Ohio. > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Ceredigion Archives > email archives@ceredigion.gov.uk >

Greetings, all, I have received a copy of the death certificate of my gr-gr-grandfather, Benjamin Franklin Jones, born Jan 5,1835, in Wales. (Most likely a Cardiganshire birth.) My question comes from his mother's birth name, though. She is listed as Anna Germancy or Jermancy, born in Wales. From Ohio census and cemetery records, I know that she was born Abt. 1794. I do not know where, so am sending to the Dyfed list as well as Cardiganshire. Sorry for the cross-posting. Have any of you come across this name? It seems unusual to me. What a relief to have a Welsh name other than Jones and Griffiths and Evans!! LOL A quick check on the Family Search site came up empty. I appreciate any and all replies, off list or on. Thanks in advance. Kathi Jenkins Elliott Searching Jenkins, Jones, Griffiths, Davies, Edwards, Williams, Richards, Evans who emigrated to Jackson and Gallia Counties of Ohio.

Christene Not sure if you saw my response to an earlier posting: but there are several MAGORs in Bow Street, just a couple of miles north of Aberystwyth, mentioned here on GENUKI: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Aberystwyth/AberPhotos.html David Canberra > Hi > Ive been away and am now catching up on emails > This is certainly an interesting list > My line are the MAGOR family of Cardiganshire > Anne married James Crook in Kent 1894 > Christene > working feverishly on a reunion for the Irish side > (MCGRATH Braidwood ) > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Welsh Family History Archive http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm >

Hi Ann! Further to my previous message, am I correct in thinking that this is your ancestor? If I'm correct, there seems little doubt, in view of his birthplace, that you have the right man. Blacklion Inn Census Place: Llanrhystyd Mefenydd, Cardigan, Wales John Job WILLIAMS M 45 M Verwig, Cardigan, Wales Rel: Boarder Occ: Carpenter Cheers Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <Anndriscoll@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:59 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Where is Llanrhystyd Mefenydd? > > Hi, can someone please tell me where Llanrhystyd Mefenydd is in relation to > Llangoedmore and Verwick? I have an ancestor who is not on the 1881 census > with his family and I believe I may have found him in the Black Lion Inn at > the above place. I cannot find it on a map, it is probably a small village. > > Thanks in advance for your help > > regards > > > Ann > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Genuki Wales > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ >

Hi Ann! As you obviously know Verwick and Llangoedmore are about 3½ miles apart near Cardigan. Llanrhystyd is on the A487 some 25½ miles north-east of Cardigan between Aberystwyh and Aberaeron. I don't think that there's much doubt about that being the village you mean because I pass through it frequently and the Black Lion Inn is still there. Best wishes Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <Anndriscoll@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:59 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Where is Llanrhystyd Mefenydd? > > Hi, can someone please tell me where Llanrhystyd Mefenydd is in relation to > Llangoedmore and Verwick? I have an ancestor who is not on the 1881 census > with his family and I believe I may have found him in the Black Lion Inn at > the above place. I cannot find it on a map, it is probably a small village. > > Thanks in advance for your help > > regards > > > Ann > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Genuki Wales > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ >

Hi Ive been away and am now catching up on emails This is certainly an interesting list My line are the MAGOR family of Cardiganshire Anne married James Crook in Kent 1894 Christene working feverishly on a reunion for the Irish side (MCGRATH Braidwood )

Hi, can someone please tell me where Llanrhystyd Mefenydd is in relation to Llangoedmore and Verwick? I have an ancestor who is not on the 1881 census with his family and I believe I may have found him in the Black Lion Inn at the above place. I cannot find it on a map, it is probably a small village. Thanks in advance for your help regards Ann

Ann, you need to go to a library and when you find your family, yell out "I found them!" I can guarantee in a FHC and other genealogical library, everybody is going to understand what you are talking about. Annie > AnnSnowdrop@aol.com > To: WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <191.24f00baf.2d597823@aol.com> > Subject: [WLS-CGN] Llanbadarn Fawr > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Hello List > > Thank you to all the folks on this list that have answered my queries. > > I have been on a high all day telling people at work that I know who my > great > great grandparents are and where & when they were born. > > As non Family History persons they had no understanding that finding some > ancestors that it is obvious that I must have had should make me so happy. > > Bye for now > > Ann > Haverhill > Suffolk > > > Visit my Website

Hello List Thank you to all the folks on this list that have answered my queries. I have been on a high all day telling people at work that I know who my great great grandparents are and where & when they were born. As non Family History persons they had no understanding that finding some ancestors that it is obvious that I must have had should make me so happy. Bye for now Ann Haverhill Suffolk Visit my Website at http://snowdropsgarden.co.uk

Ann, To add to the input from Paul Vivash & Annie Lloyd, the IGI is *far* from complete, although Llanbadarn Fawr did receive good coverage, hence inclusions of events as far out as 1855 which is not the norm with most IGI entries relying on the BT's and usually ending about 1837. You're very fortunate, in this case. First, never "assume" anything! Use the IGI *only* as a tool and don't assume the Margaret ROBERTS burial is "yours", necessarily. First, I would order the birth certificate for your David ROBERTS directly from the Supt. Registrar, Aberystwyth. This will confirm whether David's mother was Margaret KILLING. By the way, there are a lot of KILLING (and spelling variations) burials on the Llanbadarn Farm site. If you're a member of the Cardiganshire FHS, there's at least one other person researching KILLINGS who may not be monitoring this list at the moment -- Glenda Garrelts Mattes in Dover, Mass. The last email address I have for her is: DoverGGM@attbi.com but I'm not certain if it's current. Glenda has done a lot of work on the KILLING's and may have some knowledge of this couple. You could also email Ceredigion Archives (see GENUKI pages) and ask for a lookup in the 1861 Census. Additionally, if you can get to the FRC in London or to a nearby LDS FHC, find the entries yourself in the BT's or transcript of the PR for David, his siblings, burials of his parents, their marriage, etc. Incidentally, Paul's 1851 Census details didn't include birthplaces for the individuals -- this added information would be useful ;-) Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnSnowdrop@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 8:09 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] How good is the IGI for Llanbadarn Fawr? > Hello Folks > > Yesterday I had this idea, yep I do get ideas very occasionally! > I knew that I had looked for my great granddad DAVID ROBERTS born c1855 on > the IGI when I first found out his name from the 1901 census (in 2002) and the > fact he came from Aberyswyth, Wales, well that didnt help. > > Any way yesterday I put in the name again but with Cardigan as the place name > (from 1891 census) and eureka I think I have found him BUT how good is the > IGI for Llanbadarn Fawr? > > If you were asking the same question about Suffolk I would say good for most > areas but almost non existant for St Marys parish in Bury St Edmunds and a > very patchy BTs coverage. But the Record Office is only 20 miles away and I can > go and do a whole days ficheing if need be. > > > This is what I found on the IGI > > John & Margaret ROBERTS parents of > > David ROBERTS chr 27 May 1855, Llanbadarn fawr, Cardigan (he's the youngest) > > I also found these children and two marriages of John & Margaret > John Roberts & Margaret James m 19-3-1824. > I am assuming the first 5 children belong to them > > John Sep 1828* > Richard Nov 1829* > John Sep 1832* > Thomas Feb 1834* > John Dec 1835* > > John Roberts & Margaret Killing m 11-12-1835 so I am going to asume that they > are the parents of my great granddad and 10 of these children > > John Jan 1836 > Richard May 1838 > Elizabeth March 1839 > Anne Sep 1839 > Jane Eliz May 1840 > Mary Feb 1841 > Edward Feb 1843 > Mary Apr 1843 > Elizabeth Dec 1844 > John Dec 1846 > Mary Mar 1850 > Ann Jun 1852 > > Am I on a good trail can I take this info as reliable (apart from the need to > double check)? > Or is it wishful thinking again? > > Could anybody look at the 1861 Census and find my David with his dad John as > a widower and some of his siblings as according to the Llanbadarnfawr website > Margaret Roberts died in 1857? > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ceredigwynd/roberts-memorial.html > > > So folks 'How good is the IGI for Llanbadarn fawr?' Can anyone help me build > my sapling up to the size of the tree I have grown for my husband here in > Suffolk. > > Regards > > Ann Taylor nee Roberts > > Suffolk > > > > Visit my Website at http://snowdropsgarden.co.uk > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Welsh Family History Archive http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm >

In a message dated 2/8/04 7:01:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Ann, I think the IGI is a wonderful tool but everything must be checked for accuracy. IF the record came from the name extraction program (where names were extracted from an actual record such as a BT) then its probably accurate. If however, it came from a patron sheet, skip it. What I mean by a patron sheet is that someone with the Mormon Church sent in the record and may or may not be correct. I have some dealings with patron sheets and I don't touch them with a ten foot pole now. LDS knows that there are many mistakes in the IGI. As I said above, I would check the actual record. In fact, you should anyway. I don't have any Roberts in my family but I have senn that name in that area of Wales. It's not that common, however. The Parish of Llanbadarn Fawr is noted for lots of people from other areas of Wales and England being married there. I don't think it was a Gretna Green but I believe I was told it was because it was close to Aberystwyth and lots of people came there because it was a seaport. Annie > X-Message: #2 > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:09:53 EST > From: AnnSnowdrop@aol.com > > > > > > Yesterday I had this idea, yep I do get ideas very occasionally! > I knew that I had looked for my great granddad DAVID ROBERTS born c1855 on > the IGI when I first found out his name from the 1901 census (in 2002) and > the > fact he came from Aberyswyth, Wales, well that didnt help. > > Any way yesterday I put in the name again but with Cardigan as the place > name > (from 1891 census) and eureka I think I have found him BUT how good is the > IGI for Llanbadarn Fawr? > > If you were asking the same question about Suffolk I would say good for > most > areas but almost non existant for St Marys parish in Bury St Edmunds and a > very patchy BTs coverage. But the Record Office is only 20 miles away and I > can > go and do a whole days ficheing if need be. > > > This is what I found on the IGI > > John & Margaret ROBERTS parents of > > David ROBERTS chr 27 May 1855, Llanbadarn fawr, Cardigan (he's the youngest) > > I also found these children and two marriages of John & Margaret > John Roberts & Margaret James m 19-3-1824. > I am assuming the first 5 children belong to them > > John Sep 1828* > Richard Nov 1829* > John Sep 1832* > Thomas Feb 1834* > John Dec 1835* > > John Roberts & Margaret Killing m 11-12-1835 so I am going to asume that > they > are the parents of my great granddad and 10 of these children > > John Jan 1836 > Richard May 1838 > Elizabeth March 1839 > Anne Sep 1839 > Jane Eliz May 1840 > Mary Feb 1841 > Edward Feb 1843 > Mary Apr 1843 > Elizabeth Dec 1844 > John Dec 1846 > Mary Mar 1850 > Ann Jun 1852 > > Am I on a good trail can I take this info as reliable (apart from the need > to > double check)? > Or is it wishful thinking again? > > Could anybody look at the 1861 Census and find my David with his dad John as > a widower and some of his siblings as according to the Llanbadarnfawr > website > Margaret Roberts died in 1857? > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ceredigwynd/roberts-memorial.html > > > So folks 'How good is the IGI for Llanbadarn fawr?' Can anyone help me build > my sapling up to the size of the tree I have grown for my husband here in > Suffolk. > > Regards > > Ann Taylor nee Roberts > > Suffolk > > > > Visit my Website at http://snowdropsgarden.co.uk > > >

Hi Ann! Fortunately the record of David ROBERTS (b 1855), son of John and Margaret contains the magic words: "Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date." This indicates that the record was part of an extraction programme and not a patron submission so I should say that it's likely to be accurate. By "how good", do you mean how accurate or how comprehensive? Although I live 7 miles from Aberystwyth, I have no genealogical connections so am not in a position to vouch for the comprehensiveness of the LDS work on Llanbadarn Fawr but I believe, from their filming of BTs etc in the National LIbrary here, that extensive work has been done on that parish. Incidentally, until well into the 19th century, Aberystwyth came within the parish of Llanbadarn Fawr so it wouldn't be surprising to find ancestors from the town using this grand old church for their baptisms etc. I assume that this is " your" family from the 1851 census: Cwmpadarn John Roberts Head 36yrs Carpenter . . Margaret Roberts Wife 35yrs . . . Richard Roberts Son 12yrs Scholar . . Jane Roberts Dtr 10yrs Scholar . . John Roberts Son 4yrs Scholar . . Mary Roberts Dtr 1yr Cheers Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnnSnowdrop@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:09 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] How good is the IGI for Llanbadarn Fawr? > Hello Folks > > Yesterday I had this idea, yep I do get ideas very occasionally! > I knew that I had looked for my great granddad DAVID ROBERTS born c1855 on > the IGI when I first found out his name from the 1901 census (in 2002) and the > fact he came from Aberyswyth, Wales, well that didnt help. > > Any way yesterday I put in the name again but with Cardigan as the place name > (from 1891 census) and eureka I think I have found him BUT how good is the > IGI for Llanbadarn Fawr? > > If you were asking the same question about Suffolk I would say good for most > areas but almost non existant for St Marys parish in Bury St Edmunds and a > very patchy BTs coverage. But the Record Office is only 20 miles away and I can > go and do a whole days ficheing if need be. > > > This is what I found on the IGI > > John & Margaret ROBERTS parents of > > David ROBERTS chr 27 May 1855, Llanbadarn fawr, Cardigan (he's the youngest) > > I also found these children and two marriages of John & Margaret > John Roberts & Margaret James m 19-3-1824. > I am assuming the first 5 children belong to them > > John Sep 1828* > Richard Nov 1829* > John Sep 1832* > Thomas Feb 1834* > John Dec 1835* > > John Roberts & Margaret Killing m 11-12-1835 so I am going to asume that they > are the parents of my great granddad and 10 of these children > > John Jan 1836 > Richard May 1838 > Elizabeth March 1839 > Anne Sep 1839 > Jane Eliz May 1840 > Mary Feb 1841 > Edward Feb 1843 > Mary Apr 1843 > Elizabeth Dec 1844 > John Dec 1846 > Mary Mar 1850 > Ann Jun 1852 > > Am I on a good trail can I take this info as reliable (apart from the need to > double check)? > Or is it wishful thinking again? > > Could anybody look at the 1861 Census and find my David with his dad John as > a widower and some of his siblings as according to the Llanbadarnfawr website > Margaret Roberts died in 1857? > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ceredigwynd/roberts-memorial.html > > > So folks 'How good is the IGI for Llanbadarn fawr?' Can anyone help me build > my sapling up to the size of the tree I have grown for my husband here in > Suffolk. > > Regards > > Ann Taylor nee Roberts > > Suffolk > > > > Visit my Website at http://snowdropsgarden.co.uk > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Welsh Family History Archive http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm >

Hello Folks Yesterday I had this idea, yep I do get ideas very occasionally! I knew that I had looked for my great granddad DAVID ROBERTS born c1855 on the IGI when I first found out his name from the 1901 census (in 2002) and the fact he came from Aberyswyth, Wales, well that didnt help. Any way yesterday I put in the name again but with Cardigan as the place name (from 1891 census) and eureka I think I have found him BUT how good is the IGI for Llanbadarn Fawr? If you were asking the same question about Suffolk I would say good for most areas but almost non existant for St Marys parish in Bury St Edmunds and a very patchy BTs coverage. But the Record Office is only 20 miles away and I can go and do a whole days ficheing if need be. This is what I found on the IGI John & Margaret ROBERTS parents of David ROBERTS chr 27 May 1855, Llanbadarn fawr, Cardigan (he's the youngest) I also found these children and two marriages of John & Margaret John Roberts & Margaret James m 19-3-1824. I am assuming the first 5 children belong to them John Sep 1828* Richard Nov 1829* John Sep 1832* Thomas Feb 1834* John Dec 1835* John Roberts & Margaret Killing m 11-12-1835 so I am going to asume that they are the parents of my great granddad and 10 of these children John Jan 1836 Richard May 1838 Elizabeth March 1839 Anne Sep 1839 Jane Eliz May 1840 Mary Feb 1841 Edward Feb 1843 Mary Apr 1843 Elizabeth Dec 1844 John Dec 1846 Mary Mar 1850 Ann Jun 1852 Am I on a good trail can I take this info as reliable (apart from the need to double check)? Or is it wishful thinking again? Could anybody look at the 1861 Census and find my David with his dad John as a widower and some of his siblings as according to the Llanbadarnfawr website Margaret Roberts died in 1857? http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ceredigwynd/roberts-memorial.html So folks 'How good is the IGI for Llanbadarn fawr?' Can anyone help me build my sapling up to the size of the tree I have grown for my husband here in Suffolk. Regards Ann Taylor nee Roberts Suffolk Visit my Website at http://snowdropsgarden.co.uk

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Dear John, I am sending this to the list as well as it may provide someone else with an answer if they are having bounced e-mails. I have just spent three days sending countless e-mails to Freeserve because my e-mails to Pryse were returned "access denied". I had eventually written to him through the Powys list and his ISP gave this answer to the problem when I sent him the entire e-mail with headers. "Access denied is our email server saying that the sender has been denied access because the are on a "blacklisted" server. This is usually caused when the remote server has been tested and found to be lacking in proper configuration, or when it has produced a large amount of spam.......... it is the responsibility of the mail-in.freeserve.com administrators to get their server removed from the blacklists" Freeserve even suggested to me in one e-mail that it was because I uswed the word "test" in the suhject line!! This is the latest e-mail from them and I am going to write again in a few days to see if they have done anything further. "Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience this must be causing. We are aware that certain anti-spam organisations such as Spamhaus and Spamcop are blacklisting some of our mailservers for outgoing mail due to a very small percentage of our Members using our service to send Spam. These lists are used by a number of organisations worldwide to determine who in turn they blacklist. This is the cause of the failure to deliver the email you were trying to send. This issue does not only affect Freeserve, but also many other ISP's. The issue has been forwarded to the Freeserve Mail Operations Team who are working to resolve the problem as a matter of urgency. The details you have kindly provided are necessary to help correctly identify the organisation which is applying the blacklist. We hope to have a resolution to this issue in the very near future, however in the meantime, thank you for your continued patience. If you have any further queries then please do not hesitate to get in contact with us again." I also told Freeserve that I was finding several but not all my e-mails to AOL addresses were also being returned undelivered but on re-sending them they get to their destination and this is their reply. "Currently there is an issue whereby Freeserve emails are being blocked by AOL. Freeserve is currently in negotiations with AOL and is trying to get the block removed. This matter is currently beyond our control however we assure you we are doing our best to get the matter resolved as soon as possible." It is very frustrating not being able to contact people direct by e-mail especially when the content is urgent. Regards, Margaret Harvey ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hughes" <Jevanshughes@btopenworld.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:57 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Fw: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender > I have been trying to contact one of the list's subscribers but keep getting > it bounced back! I apologise for using the list in this way but it's the > only way I can think of getting him the error message! > John Hughes. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mail Delivery System" <Mailer-Daemon@btinternet.com> > To: <jevanshughes@btopenworld.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:54 PM > Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender > > > > This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). > > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its > > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > > > pduerfel@nmu.edu > > SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL > FROM:<jevanshughes@btopenworld.com> SIZE=2940: > > host TRAVELLER.nmu.edu [198.110.192.45]: 550 5.7.1 > <jevanshughes@btopenworld.com>... Access denied > > ------ This is a copy of the headers. ------ > > > > Return-path: <jevanshughes@btopenworld.com> > > Received: from [81.135.128.142] (helo=ibm52m6t3uhm1q) > > by uranium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #25) > > id 1Alya3-0002i3-00 > > for pduerfel@nmu.edu; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:54:43 +0000 > > Message-ID: <000b01c3e5f1$7eb53630$8e808751@ibm52m6t3uhm1q> > > From: "John Hughes" <jevanshughes@btopenworld.com> > > To: "Pryse Duerfeldt" <pduerfel@nmu.edu> > > References: <4.2.0.58.20040127085543.00a72b60@pop.mail.nmu.edu> > > Subject: Re: E-mail Problems > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Dyfed FHS > http://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/ > >