Kathi Elliott <kjell@evansville.net> wrote: The parish records listed the birth dates and christening dates of four children [of Thomas D. Davies]. My gr-gr-grandmother, Elinor (or Ellen) Davies, is listed on this record as having been born on July 16, 1835 and christened 13 Sep 1835. However, EVERY other record I have found, including the 1841 census of Blaenpenal, Cardiganshire, the 1850 Census of Jackson County, Ohio, her death certificate and written family records put her birthdate in August of 1834-- almost a year earlier. Should I go with the parish record? ================== Dear Kathi, In my view, the parish register is the most reliable of the sources you have cited. As long as you were checking the original parish register (or a microfilmed facsimile of it) the dates recorded therein are the ones to which I would give the highest credence. Because they were written down at the time of the christening, and only a few weeks after the birth, they are the least likely to be in error. Bishop's transcripts of the parish records are less reliable, because they are susceptible to transcription errors. The UK 1841 census is the next most reliable source. However, you cannot normally obtain the month of birth from a UK census except in the case of infants whose ages are expressed in months rather than years. The 1841 UK census would only indicate the age of the child (in years) on census day (6th June 1841). If the age was recorded correctly, a child born in July 1835, would be recorded as 5 years old in the 1841 census (her 6th birthday would be in July 1841, *after* the census). A child born in August 1834 would be recorded as 6 years old (her 7th birthday would be *after* the census). It is possible the census enumerator copied the age wrongly when he transferred his data into his log book. Similarly, if you were viewing a transcription of the census rather than a microfilmed facsimile, it is possible the age of the child was misread by the transcriber. Personally, I think the 1850 US census and the family records are the least reliable sources. The 1850 census is recording events which took place 15 years earlier -- ample time for memories to have failed and errors to have crept in. Family records are often written down many years, even generations, after the events to which they refer. Their accuracy must always be in doubt until the details can be independently verified in reliable sources. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

Hi Kathi! My inclination would be to ignore the IGI record unless, of course, you have verified the information from the original or microfilm of the actual non-conformist records. Although this IGI entry is an extraction and not a patron submission, my suspicion is that the extractor automatically took the birth date as being in the same year as the baptism without proper checking, though admittedly that would not explain 16 July against "August" - but do you have a precise date? As to the 1841 census, the 5 year 'rounding' should not have applied to children so the age ought to be accurate, the parents surely knowing whether the child was 6 or 7 years old. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 3:28 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] THOMAS DAVIES,(1790 - 1859) Blaenpenal Calvinistic Methodist Records > A question about accuracy in the parish records. I have verified the information I found about the family of Thomas D. Davies from the IGI. The parish records I found listed the birth dates and christening dates of four children to this family. (There were others, but I may not have been aware of them when I was looking.) My question is this: > > My gr-gr-grandmother, Elinor (or Ellen) Davies, is listed on this record as having been born on July 16, 1835 and christened 13 Sep 1835. However, EVERY other record I have found, including the 1841 census of Blaenpenal, Cardiganshire, the 1850 Census of Jackson County, Ohio, her death certificate and written family records put her birthdate in August of 1834-- almost a year earlier. > > Should I go with the parish record? I suppose it is possible that she didn't know her real birthdate. I welcome suggestions, on or off the list. > > Thanks, > Kathi Jenkins Elliott > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html >

I am trying to find what might have happened to Rees Pugh DAVIES. In the 1841 census of Blaenpenal, he appears as the 3 year old son of Thomas and Mary Davies. This family emigrated to Oak Hill, Ohio in 1846. He does not appear in the 1850 Jackson County, Ohio census with his family. If there is anyone with the ability to look up to see if he possibly died before the family left Wales, I would appreciate it. If not, I will re-order the parish records and search for that here. BTW, I received the Rowlands book on Family History research in Wales yesterday. Those of you who recommended it were absolutely right! Thanks, a lot! Thanks for your consideration. Kathi Jenkins Elliott

A question about accuracy in the parish records. I have verified the information I found about the family of Thomas D. Davies from the IGI. The parish records I found listed the birth dates and christening dates of four children to this family. (There were others, but I may not have been aware of them when I was looking.) My question is this: My gr-gr-grandmother, Elinor (or Ellen) Davies, is listed on this record as having been born on July 16, 1835 and christened 13 Sep 1835. However, EVERY other record I have found, including the 1841 census of Blaenpenal, Cardiganshire, the 1850 Census of Jackson County, Ohio, her death certificate and written family records put her birthdate in August of 1834-- almost a year earlier. Should I go with the parish record? I suppose it is possible that she didn't know her real birthdate. I welcome suggestions, on or off the list. Thanks, Kathi Jenkins Elliott

Jenny, Since you use approximate dates for Margaret's birth, her first marriage and for their daughter, Elizabeth's, birth, I presume you haven't obtained certificates for any of these events? From where did you obtain the names of her parents? You may wish to contact the Ceredigion Archives (see GENUKI pages for Cardiganshire under Archives and Libraries) and request a lookup for the family in the 1851 Census (and also the 1861 census). If you're certain of her parents' names, you should order all relevant certificates directly from the Supt. Registrar, Aberystwyth. (See GENUKI pages under Civil Registration for details and address.) I wouldn't assume, however, that she and William DAVIES married the year *before* the birth of their daughter -- it wasn't uncommon to marry within months of the birth of the first child. The marriage certificate will provide the names and occupations of the fathers of the couple, as well as their residences at the time of the marriage. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANDISON" <jpandison@iprimus.com.au> To: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net>; <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] EVANS/JONES > Thanks Julie for picking up my error > MARGARET was born 1843 > She married WILLIAM DAVIES around 1862 > ELIZABETH was born around 1863. > Her parents were DANIEL JONES and LETICIA HALLY > but she also used the maiden name of EVANS > She arrived in Australia in Dec 1864 and William died in 1868. > Hope someone can help > Regards > Jenny > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> > To: "ANDISON" <jpandison@iprimus.com.au>; <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:42 AM > Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] EVANS/JONES > > > > > > Jenny, > > > > It appears the dates you provided are a bit off --- you said Margaret was > > born around 1843 in Aberystwyth. Then you said she married William Davies > > around 1842 and had a daughter Elizabeth about 1843. > > > > While you're at it, when did she emigrate and remarry in Australia? > > > > Please be sure to use 'Reply All' so your response goes to the list, too. > > > > Regards, > > > > Julie Preston > > juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ANDISON" <jpandison@iprimus.com.au> > > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:57 PM > > Subject: [WLS-CGN] EVANS/JONES > > > > > > > Hello List, > > > I am trying to trace the family of MARGARET who was said to be born in > > Aberyswyth in around 1843 to DANIEL JONES andLETICIA HALLY. > > > She married WILLIAM DAVIES around 1842 and had a daughter ELIZABETH > about > > 1843 > > > Margaret remarried in Australia and when her children were born she > > recorded her maiden name as EVANS on some and JONES on the others. > > > She also recorded her maiden name as Evans on her husbands death > > certificate. > > > Can somebody please help me find this family on the 1851 census as it > may > > have what relationship she is to Daniel and Leticia. > > > > > > Love to hear from somebody with links > > > Regards > > > Jenny > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > > Welsh Family History Archive > > http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm > > > > > > > >

Thanks Julie for picking up my error MARGARET was born 1843 She married WILLIAM DAVIES around 1862 ELIZABETH was born around 1863. Her parents were DANIEL JONES and LETICIA HALLY but she also used the maiden name of EVANS She arrived in Australia in Dec 1864 and William died in 1868. Hope someone can help Regards Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net> To: "ANDISON" <jpandison@iprimus.com.au>; <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] EVANS/JONES > > Jenny, > > It appears the dates you provided are a bit off --- you said Margaret was > born around 1843 in Aberystwyth. Then you said she married William Davies > around 1842 and had a daughter Elizabeth about 1843. > > While you're at it, when did she emigrate and remarry in Australia? > > Please be sure to use 'Reply All' so your response goes to the list, too. > > Regards, > > Julie Preston > juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ANDISON" <jpandison@iprimus.com.au> > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:57 PM > Subject: [WLS-CGN] EVANS/JONES > > > > Hello List, > > I am trying to trace the family of MARGARET who was said to be born in > Aberyswyth in around 1843 to DANIEL JONES andLETICIA HALLY. > > She married WILLIAM DAVIES around 1842 and had a daughter ELIZABETH about > 1843 > > Margaret remarried in Australia and when her children were born she > recorded her maiden name as EVANS on some and JONES on the others. > > She also recorded her maiden name as Evans on her husbands death > certificate. > > Can somebody please help me find this family on the 1851 census as it may > have what relationship she is to Daniel and Leticia. > > > > Love to hear from somebody with links > > Regards > > Jenny > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Welsh Family History Archive > http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm > > > >

Hi, Verwick and St Dogmaels are separated by the Teifi estuary, but you could go by boat from Gwbert to Poppit. Cofion, Tudor > from: Paul Vivash <mountpleasant@goginan.fsbusiness.co.uk> > date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:35:36 > to: WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > subject: Re: [WLS-CGN] Verwick to to St.Dogmaels? > > Hi Ann! > > 3.3 miles. > > Cheers > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Anndriscoll@aol.com> > To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:22 PM > Subject: [WLS-CGN] Verwick to to St.Dogmaels? > > > > Hi, can someone please tell me how far it is from Verwick to St.Dogmaels? > I > > have an ancestor who says he was born in Verwick on one census and > St.Dogmaels > > on another. > > > > Also, as this birth was about 1806/7, is there anyone who has access to > the > > B/T's for either area for that time? > > > > The birth/baptism I am looking for is Josiah WILLIAMS, married in > St.Mary's, > > Pembroke to Hannah Davies in 1831, age given on the 1841 census was 35. > > > > Any help will be much appreciated > > > > > > #thanks > > > > Ann > > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Gareth's Help Page > > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > National Library of Wales > http://www.llgc.org.uk/ >

Hi Ann, Pre-1837(July) there are no civil birth records - you have to rely on church or chapel. Usually these are baptism records, but Baptists who did not believe in infant baptisms did (some of them) keep birth records - there are some records for Blaenwaun Baptist Chapel in St Dogmaels parish at the NLW, but I haven't seen them yet (I will do so when I get the chance, as some of them were made by my own ggg grandfather, Rev David Phillips). It would be a great help if you could decide whether your ancestor was born in Verwick, CGN, or in St Dogmaels, PEM. Note that part of St Dogmaels was in Cardiganshire from 1832 until the 1990s, but the whole parish is usually regarded by family historians as having been in Pembrokeshire. I have looked at the St Dogmaels parish church baptism registers. Unfortunately there are virtually none surviving before 1808, and no Josiah/Joshua Williams baptism. You might be luckier with the BTs, which I do not have. Alternatively consider the Blaenwaun records - nearly half the population were Baptists. Regards Bill G-J

Hi Ann! 3.3 miles. Cheers Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <Anndriscoll@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:22 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Verwick to to St.Dogmaels? > Hi, can someone please tell me how far it is from Verwick to St.Dogmaels? I > have an ancestor who says he was born in Verwick on one census and St.Dogmaels > on another. > > Also, as this birth was about 1806/7, is there anyone who has access to the > B/T's for either area for that time? > > The birth/baptism I am looking for is Josiah WILLIAMS, married in St.Mary's, > Pembroke to Hannah Davies in 1831, age given on the 1841 census was 35. > > Any help will be much appreciated > > > #thanks > > Ann > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html >

I'm sending this message below for the 2nd time as the first bounced back to me. Is any one else having this problem , I've had several over 2/3 days on 3 lists, not sure whether its just my isp(demon) or Rootsweb. > Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 > Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ > > I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extracts for Llanwenog and Llanwnnen > parishes in CGN. > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanwenog/Kellys1895.html > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanwnnen/Kellys1895.html > > Gareth > List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM > Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ > Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html > Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html > .

Hi, can someone please tell me how far it is from Verwick to St.Dogmaels? I have an ancestor who says he was born in Verwick on one census and St.Dogmaels on another. Also, as this birth was about 1806/7, is there anyone who has access to the B/T's for either area for that time? The birth/baptism I am looking for is Josiah WILLIAMS, married in St.Mary's, Pembroke to Hannah Davies in 1831, age given on the 1841 census was 35. Any help will be much appreciated #thanks Ann

Hello List, I am trying to trace the family of MARGARET who was said to be born in Aberyswyth in around 1843 to DANIEL JONES andLETICIA HALLY. She married WILLIAM DAVIES around 1842 and had a daughter ELIZABETH about 1843 Margaret remarried in Australia and when her children were born she recorded her maiden name as EVANS on some and JONES on the others. She also recorded her maiden name as Evans on her husbands death certificate. Can somebody please help me find this family on the 1851 census as it may have what relationship she is to Daniel and Leticia. Love to hear from somebody with links Regards Jenny

Jenny, It appears the dates you provided are a bit off --- you said Margaret was born around 1843 in Aberystwyth. Then you said she married William Davies around 1842 and had a daughter Elizabeth about 1843. While you're at it, when did she emigrate and remarry in Australia? Please be sure to use 'Reply All' so your response goes to the list, too. Regards, Julie Preston juliefpreston@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANDISON" <jpandison@iprimus.com.au> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:57 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] EVANS/JONES > Hello List, > I am trying to trace the family of MARGARET who was said to be born in Aberyswyth in around 1843 to DANIEL JONES andLETICIA HALLY. > She married WILLIAM DAVIES around 1842 and had a daughter ELIZABETH about 1843 > Margaret remarried in Australia and when her children were born she recorded her maiden name as EVANS on some and JONES on the others. > She also recorded her maiden name as Evans on her husbands death certificate. > Can somebody please help me find this family on the 1851 census as it may have what relationship she is to Daniel and Leticia. > > Love to hear from somebody with links > Regards > Jenny > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Welsh Family History Archive http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm >

Ann St Dogmaels PRs for the period will be at Pem Archives and the NLW, but check the Lookup Exchange first. The Genuki parish page entry for Verwick is as below, there are no PR baptism records prior to 1813, the BTs will hopefully give you the data you need for 1807. Verwick Parish Register; Baptisms 1813-1992. Marriages 1769-1970. Burials 1813-1955 NLW/Cer.RO Diocesan records suggest that c 1790 this parish had registers going back 30 years. Bishops Transcripts; 1674-5, 1679-84, 1686-7, 1699-1700, 1799, 1801, 1803-7, 1810-55, 1865-6 NLW I.G.I; Baptisms 1814-55. Marriages 1814-36 Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <Anndriscoll@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 5:30 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Pre 1813 birth - WILLIAMS > I have discovered that my ancestor JOSIAH WILLIAMS was born around > Verwick/St.Dogmaels about 1807 and would like a copy of the entry of birth. Cardigan > Records office do not hold the records before 1813, so could someone please > tell me where they are likely to be? > > Thanks > > > Ann > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Ceredigion Archives > email archives@ceredigion.gov.uk > >

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extracts for Llansanffraid parish in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llansanffraid/Kellys1895.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

This came to me from another mailing list I am on and I thought it was a > terrific thing. I am sure you are all like me and have spent hundreds of > hours gathering information, it would be a shame to see it lost in the next > generation. Hope it does some good. > > > Genealogical Codicil to My Last Will and Testament > > To my spouse, children, guardian, administrator and/or executor: > > > Upon my demise it is requested that you DO NOT dispose of any or all of > my genealogical records, both those prepared personally by me and those > records prepared by others which may be in my possession, including but not > limited to books, files, notebooks or computer programs for a period of two > years. > During this time period, please attempt to identify one or more persons who > would be willing to take custody of the said materials and the > responsibility > of > maintaining and continuing the family histories. [If you know whom > within your family or friends are likely candidates to accept these > materials, please add > the following at this point: "I suggest that the persons contacted regarding > the assumption of the custody of these items include but not be limited to" > and then list the names of those individuals at this point, with their > addresses > and telephone numbers if known] > > > In the event you do no find anyone to accept these materials, please > contact the various genealogical organizations that I have been a > member of and determine if they will accept some parts or all of my > genealogical materials. [List of organizations, addresses and phone > numbers at bottom; include local chapters, with their addresses, phone > numbers and contact persons if available as well as state/national > contact information and addresses] > > Please remember that my genealogical endeavors consumed a great deal of > time, travel, and money. Therefore it is my desire that the products of > these > endeavors be allowed to continue in a manner that will make them available > to > others in the future. > > > Signature ___________________________ Date ___________ > > > Witness ____________________________ Date ___________ > > > Witness ____________________________ Date ___________ > --  Dewi Evans http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dewievans/index.html ______________________________________________________________________________ Ein Grund zum Feiern: Die PC Praxis ermittelt zwischen 10 grossen Mailprovidern WEB.DE FreeMail als Testsieger http://f.web.de/?mc=021190

I have discovered that my ancestor JOSIAH WILLIAMS was born around Verwick/St.Dogmaels about 1807 and would like a copy of the entry of birth. Cardigan Records office do not hold the records before 1813, so could someone please tell me where they are likely to be? Thanks Ann

1841 Census Llansantffraed, CARDS Rhydorth Isaf David Richards 25 Farmer Y=born in CARDS Mary Richards 25 Y Anne Richards 11months Y Benjamin Davies 14 Y Rhydorth Uchaf Evan Evans 45 Farmer Y Catherine Evans 40 Y John Evans 45 Y Anne Evans 15 Y Mary Evans 15 Y Sarah Evans 13 Y Jane Evans 5 Y David Evans 2 Y Probate Records in NLW SD1801/176 John Jenkin Rhyd y Dorth Yeoman SD1819/199 Jenkin Moses Rhyd y Dorth Ucha Farmer Irene

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extracts for Llanina and Llanrhystud parishes in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanina/Kellys1895.html http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanrhystud/Kellys1895.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Just to catch the list up on what I have already responded to Julie... The David Jones family she mentioned with the Rhyd-y-dorth connection is another one of my family lines. Yes, Rhyd-y-dorth IS a Cardiganshire place, but I have always believed it was the name of the farm, rather than a "town" or parish. I could be wrong in that. I haven't done much with the Evans line, yet, though others in the family have. I thank everyone who has responded to me with good advice. I ordered the Rowlands Book on Welsh Family History at Julie's suggestion, and it should arrive within a week or so. Now, a second question: I have read on the Cardiganshire Family History Society's website that there is a course offered every year for a week at the University in Aberystwyth on Researching Welsh Family History. I have tried to find information on their website, but I didn't see it listed. Does anyone know of this? I am thinking about planning a spiritual sabbatical in Wales (at least 5 years away) and this would be a really interesting thing to add to it, I think. Thanks, again. I'll let you all know if I find more, or need more help. Kathi Jenkins Elliott