Hi I'm new to the list. I am researching the Newby surname.Found a lot of info of the Newbys living in Llandovery, Llandeilo and Llanelly. However in the 1881 there is an Issac Newby living in Aberystwyth living with his grandparents, no mention of his parents however his grandmother was from Llandovery could there be a link to the family? Has anybody seen this surname during their research? Thanks Anne

Hi Ann! You obviously have a problem in that, owing to adult baptism, birth records of Baptists were kept only very piecemeal in their own registers. However, those born after 1837 should have been subject to civil registrartion. The only thing I can think of is to go carefully through the general indexes, though if it's still WILLIAMS you're after you'll need bags of patience. I assume your Llanrhystyd ancestor was a one off but if there were connections further up the coast from Cardigan, these (like Llanrhstyd) may well have come under the Aberystwyth registration district. Cheers Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <Anndriscoll@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:32 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Baptist faith > Hi, can someone please tell me where followers of the Baptist faith in the > early to mid 1800's may have recorded the birth of their children? I am > trying to find parents of ancestors who I believe were Baptists, before civil > registration, and after. Cardigan Register office have no record of one born > circa 1870, and I can find no trace of his parents' birth/baptism either, circa > 1835-45. > > The NLW say they do not hold any such records so I am at a loss where to look > next. > > Any help will be much appreciated. > > Thanks again > > Ann > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Genuki CGN > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/ >

Hi, can someone please tell me where followers of the Baptist faith in the early to mid 1800's may have recorded the birth of their children? I am trying to find parents of ancestors who I believe were Baptists, before civil registration, and after. Cardigan Register office have no record of one born circa 1870, and I can find no trace of his parents' birth/baptism either, circa 1835-45. The NLW say they do not hold any such records so I am at a loss where to look next. Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks again Ann

Would someone please be kind enough to look on the 1871 census in those areas for a Samuel Williams aged up to 2yrs old. I have a Samuel Thomas Williams on the 1881 census in Verwick at Gwachaldug, mother Sarah at home, father not at home on census night. I need to know if that Samuel is the right one for my research as the one I am looking for became a master mariner, saying born Cardigan, with place of permanent residence as Tyrtwod, Verwick which was next door to Gwachaldug on the 1881 census. he also gave his date of birth as 10.10.1871, but Cardigan Register office do not have any record of a birth for him on that date, the nearest is August 1869. His marriage cert in Cardiff in 1888 shows his father as David, deceased labourer, but the one on the 1881 census has father John. I know it is a lot to ask someone to plough through the census as it is not indexed, but I am tearing my hair out trying to confirm which one is mine. Many thanks Ann

Can anyone give me any information at all concerning Edowain- Bendew Chief of The X111 noble Tribe of Wales. Sincerely Thomas Jones in Missouri, U.S.A.

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extract Mount/Mwnt parish in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Mount/Kellys1895.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extract for Melindwr/Parcel Canol/Coginan townships in Llanbadarn fawr parish in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/LlanbadarnFawr/Kellys1895Melindwr.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extract for Lledrod parish in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Lledrod/Kellys1895.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extract for Llechryd parish in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llechryd/Kellys1895.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

Hi: I mentioned previously that the BT's of Wales were in the PRO in London. That, I know, is incorrect. Thery are in the NLW. For some stupid reason I got it mixed up with the censuses which are indeed in the PRO. And the Nonconformist records wouldn't be anywhere near the Church of England records. As for the Mormons not being able to film the PR's of Wales - they were in the NLW (years ago) filming those records, when they were told to stop. They were not allowed to continue because of their religion. They have tried for years to film those records and have always been turned down for the same reason. Fortunately, for researchers, some family history societies are extracting the PR's and are selling them to researchers, family history centers and libraries. As for Blaenpennal nonconformists - I have many nonconformist families - Baptism, Unitarians, Calvinist Methodists, Wesleyan Methodist, Independents. When I do research in any part of Wales (prior to 1 July 1837), I would first look at the Church of England BT or PR for baptisms, marriages and burials. If I couldn't find any trace of the family, I would start looking for nonconformist records. When you do that, be sure you check every chapel within the area, even some that may be more than 10 miles from where your family lived and even in a different county. (That came home to me when I discovered that one of my families who lived in Cellan Parish, CGN was attending services at Ffaldybrenin in Llanycrwys Parish, CMN. He later moved to Capel Mair in Llanfair Clydogau and family was also at Ebenezer in Llangybi. But the entire family was buried at the Llanfair Clydogau Parish Churchyard, almost all of them Independents.) After 1 July 1837, I still look at the BT or PR for baptisms and burials. You really need all the help you can get. Also, it is not uncommon for several sons in a family to be ministers and certainly not uncommon to have a Church of England Minister and a nonconformist minister in the same family, often brothers. It has happen to my family so many times, that I am no longer shook up by it, wondering how it could happen. Remember, if you find an young man in the family, say age 22 or 23 and he is a scholar, he's probably studying to be a minister or he is one. Annie

http://www.johngareth.freeserve.co.uk/Waun/Waun.html I've been expanding the picture gallery on this theoretically local village site in Llangiwg, Gla, spilling over into the Amman Valley/Pontardawe/Ystalyfera 'triangle' - now totals 422 items. Have quite a collection of embroidered greetings cards from the WWI era (under Memorabilia) Also a few unusual non-local historic items under Miscellaneous. I'm happy to expand the latter section should anyone without a site want a showcase for some special treasure that would be of general interest to others. Don't worry about the non obvious site, google et al will pick them up soon enough. Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .

> A repeat of an earlier question that has not gotten any replies: The > Cardiganshire Family History website mentions an annual week-long course on > all of this that is taught each summer. Does anyone know anything about > this? Kathi I suggest you email the University from here http://www.aber.ac.uk/continuingeducation/summer-vacation/index.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 1:55 PM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Thank you to all

Thank you to all who have helped me shed light on my original question. To answer whether my "proof" was a BT or a PR, well, now I am going to have to dig up the copies I made. Since I made them at the FHC, they may have, indeed, been BT's. I thought I did view some PR's at the FHC, but they were so difficult to read that I doubt I made any copies of them. In any case, you all have made excellent suggestions, and I will follow them, little by little! In the meantime, I am "devouring" my Rowland's book, and am reading the chapter on the IGI several times in the process of trying to understand what I "thought" I already understood, but apparently didn't! :-) A repeat of an earlier question that has not gotten any replies: The Cardiganshire Family History website mentions an annual week-long course on all of this that is taught each summer. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks, again, Kathi

Hi Ann, News! I took a look at the Blaenwaun MIs, asking for any Williams buried before 1860. I already knew there was no Josiah or Joshua, but see what I found. It is from the transcription produced on fiche by Dyfed FHS: C152 Er coffiadwriaeth am JOHN WILLIAMS o BRYN PEDR plwyf y FERWIG yr hwn a fu farw Ebrill 7ed 1830 yn 63 oed Hefyd am ANNE WILLIAMS ei wraig hon a fu farw Mawrth 19eg 1820 yn 51 mlwydd Hefyd am LEAH WILLIAMS ei merch yr hon a fu farw Meh.26ain 1822 yn 13 mlwydd oed Also of ELIZABETH TURNOR the beloved wife of Capt. THOMAS TURNOR of MAYFLOWER of CARDIGAN who died May 26 1873 aged 80 years There are 5 other WILLIAMS MIs either side of this one, but none mentions Ferwig. Some at least are likely to be related - somehow. So assuming you can read the Welsh, this should help you. It also means that your Josiah was almost certainly born a Baptist and was not baptised as an infant - you need to look at that Blaenwaun births book I mentioned, it's at the NLW. Also you should be able to find out whether the family was at Bryn Pedr as early as 1807 by looking at the Land Tax records for Ferwig. Someone else on the list may be able to tell you what records have survived for the parish. I will copy this back to the list in case anyone else has a connection. Regards Bill

----- Original Message ----- From: <Cardi2@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 5:06 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Parish Register > In a message dated 2/21/04 8:01:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, > WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > Kathi: > > Re the IGI and the Parish Registers. When the information for the IGI was > extracted it was not extracted from the Parish Registers of Wales. It was > extracted from the BT. The Church of Wales will not permit the Mormons to film the > Parish Registers but they were able to film the BT because it came from the > Public Record Office in London. No, the BTs were transferred from the individual diocesan registries to the National Library of Wales in the 1940s. They have never been in the Public Record Office in London. The BTs "for all the Welsh dioceses were microfilmed in the early 1950s by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" (see "Parish Registers of Wales" by C J Williams and J Watts-Williams). "Many of the early returns went unfilmed, because the records had not been fully sorted at that stage." So the BTs were microfilmed at a relatively early date. Maybe it was only later that the question of allowing the Mormons to microfilm individual parish records started to receive much wider consideration and thence became a source of controversy? Many pre-1837 nonconformist registers (including Blaenpennal Calvinist Methodist christenings 1813-1837) were transferred to London in the 1840s - initially being held in the custody of the Registrar General. Since they were nonconformist records (and at first without official legal status) they were never included within the BTs. But subsequently (in London) they were also filmed for the Mormons. AJ

In a message dated 2/22/2004 4:50:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cardi2 writes: > John, lots of Americans don't know the difference beween the Parish Register and a BT. In fact, they don't even know what is a Parish Register and a BT. We don't have a state church in the USA and church records are not as important as they are in the UK. We have other records to look at such as land and property, wills and probates, county and family histories, vital records (which are not called registration here in the USA although some English magazines seem to think so), tax records, military records, cemetery records, and many other records as well. In fact, church records, although they are very important, would probably be down on the list of things to be looked at. Most people doing research on a UK ancestor don't even know the religion of their ancestor. And the ones that do, often don't know the difference between a Calvinist Methodist and a Wesleyan Methodist especially when their ancestor, like my own father, said he was a Methodist. > > If you asked! them if they looked up a church record in England or Wales, they would probably say it is the parish registers. > I'm sure that Kathi knows the difference but there others on this list who may not. That was the reason for my email to alert others to know that they can obtain the BT's from their local FHC but not the PR's and the reason why they can't. > > Annie> > > > > > > I concur with Annie Lloyd about the IGI, but unless I > have misunderstood

Whilst I agree with you, Annie in general terms, in this case the original baptismal entry was in the Calvinistic Methodist registers for Blaenpennal. It is these, or a microfilm copy, which would throw light on the details. Cheers Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cardi2@aol.com> To: <WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 5:06 AM Subject: [WLS-CGN] Parish Register > In a message dated 2/21/04 8:01:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, > WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > Kathi: > > Re the IGI and the Parish Registers. When the information for the IGI was > extracted it was not extracted from the Parish Registers of Wales. It was > extracted from the BT. The Church of Wales will not permit the Mormons to film the > Parish Registers but they were able to film the BT because it came from the > Public Record Office in London. > > You need to have someone look at the Parish Registers. I'm sure there is > someone at the National library of Wales or at the CRO that can do it for you. > They may charge you, I don't know. > > I would say that the Parish Register is more accurate than the BT. However, > I have seen both on some parishes and I would say that, sometimes, the BT is > more accurate. It depends on the minister, what he wrote and on the parish. > Also, when you were looking at the Blaenpennal records, did you also check the > Parish of Llanddewi Brefi? You need too. Blaenpennal was once a chapelry of > the Llanddewi Brefi. I've found records for Blaenpennal in Llanddewi Brefi. > So always double check that. > > The primary evidence should be the death certificate. However, the death > certificate is only as good as the informant. If the informant didn't know, then > it coudl be wrong. Actually the only person who knew would have been dead. > However, she also might not have known when she was born. When you have large > families, the ages of the children can be wrong. > > The 1841 census is not too great because it doesn't show relationshiips. You > can't say that the man and the woman and the children are related. I had > that brought home to me when I was sure that one of my ancestors had a child. > Years later, I discovered that he and his wife could not have children and the > child listed was a nephew. Instead of having two men with the name of David > Lloyd, I found that they were the same man and I wasted so much time trying to > find the second David Lloyd when I had him all the time. > > Annie > > > > > > A question about accuracy in the parish records. I have verified the > > information I found about the family of Thomas D. Davies from the IGI. The parish > > records I found listed the birth dates and christening dates of four > > children to this family. (There were others, but I may not have been aware of them > > when I was looking.) My question is this: > > > > My gr-gr-grandmother, Elinor (or Ellen) Davies, is listed on this record as > > having been born on July 16, 1835 and christened 13 Sep 1835. However, EVERY > > other record I have found, including the 1841 census of Blaenpenal, > > Cardiganshire, the 1850 Census of Jackson County, Ohio, her death certificate and > > written family records put her birthdate in August of 1834-- almost a year > > earlier. > > > > Should I go with the parish record? I suppose it is possible that she > > didn't know her real birthdate. I welcome suggestions, on or off the list. > > > > Thanks, > > Kathi Jenkins Elliott > > > > ______________________________ > > > > X-Message: #2 > > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:32:54 -0600 > > From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> > > To: > > > > > ==== WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gareth's Help Page > http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html >

In response to Kathi Elliott's message, Annie Lloyd <Cardi2@aol.com> wrote: When the information for the IGI was extracted it was not extracted from the Parish Registers of Wales. It was extracted from the BT. You need to have someone look at the Parish Registers. I would say that the Parish Register is more accurate than the BT. The primary evidence should be the death certificate. However, the death certificate is only as good as the informant. ====================== Dear Listers, I concur with Annie Lloyd about the IGI, but unless I have misunderstood Kathi's original e-mail, she has already verified the information in the IGI by examining the relevant parish records (or possibly the bishops transcripts). I quote from her original message: ------quote begins----- I have verified the information I found about the family of Thomas D. Davies from the IGI. The parish records I found listed the birth dates and christening dates of four children to this family. -------quote ends------- I agree with Annie that the information in the parish register is more likely to be accurate than that in the bishop's transcript. I disagree that "the primary evidence should be the death certificate". A death certificate is only primary evidence for the details of the death. It is *not* primary evidence for the age of the deceased or his/her date of birth. Indeed, as Annie says, the accuracy of the information on a death certificate [about the age of the deceased] is only as good as the quality of the information supplied by the informant. It could be wildly inaccurate. I still maintain that Kathi should give highest credence to the information about the birth and baptism dates recorded in the parish register (or bishop's transcript) as long as it was acquired from a facsimile rather than a later transcript. Kind regards, John ---------------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK E-mail: wfha@clara.co.uk Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

In a message dated 2/21/04 8:01:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Kathi: Re the IGI and the Parish Registers. When the information for the IGI was extracted it was not extracted from the Parish Registers of Wales. It was extracted from the BT. The Church of Wales will not permit the Mormons to film the Parish Registers but they were able to film the BT because it came from the Public Record Office in London. You need to have someone look at the Parish Registers. I'm sure there is someone at the National library of Wales or at the CRO that can do it for you. They may charge you, I don't know. I would say that the Parish Register is more accurate than the BT. However, I have seen both on some parishes and I would say that, sometimes, the BT is more accurate. It depends on the minister, what he wrote and on the parish. Also, when you were looking at the Blaenpennal records, did you also check the Parish of Llanddewi Brefi? You need too. Blaenpennal was once a chapelry of the Llanddewi Brefi. I've found records for Blaenpennal in Llanddewi Brefi. So always double check that. The primary evidence should be the death certificate. However, the death certificate is only as good as the informant. If the informant didn't know, then it coudl be wrong. Actually the only person who knew would have been dead. However, she also might not have known when she was born. When you have large families, the ages of the children can be wrong. The 1841 census is not too great because it doesn't show relationshiips. You can't say that the man and the woman and the children are related. I had that brought home to me when I was sure that one of my ancestors had a child. Years later, I discovered that he and his wife could not have children and the child listed was a nephew. Instead of having two men with the name of David Lloyd, I found that they were the same man and I wasted so much time trying to find the second David Lloyd when I had him all the time. Annie > A question about accuracy in the parish records. I have verified the > information I found about the family of Thomas D. Davies from the IGI. The parish > records I found listed the birth dates and christening dates of four > children to this family. (There were others, but I may not have been aware of them > when I was looking.) My question is this: > > My gr-gr-grandmother, Elinor (or Ellen) Davies, is listed on this record as > having been born on July 16, 1835 and christened 13 Sep 1835. However, EVERY > other record I have found, including the 1841 census of Blaenpenal, > Cardiganshire, the 1850 Census of Jackson County, Ohio, her death certificate and > written family records put her birthdate in August of 1834-- almost a year > earlier. > > Should I go with the parish record? I suppose it is possible that she > didn't know her real birthdate. I welcome suggestions, on or off the list. > > Thanks, > Kathi Jenkins Elliott > > ______________________________ > > X-Message: #2 > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:32:54 -0600 > From: "Kathi and Jim Elliott" <kjell@evansville.net> > To:

Kelly's Directory, South Wales 1895 Published by Archive CD Books http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ I have just uploaded onto Genuki the extract for Llanychaearn parish in CGN. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanychaearn/Kellys1895.html Gareth List administrator for DYFED, CGN & PEM Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .