I'm thinking she wasn't charged though I must say if I ever commit murder I'd like that coroner to be on the case, he didn't notice much! Sue Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:21 AM Subject: [CAE] Murder???? > Hi, > > Hopefully Alwyn will not mind me posting this, lengthy as it is? It is an account of a murder trial at Carnarvon, in August 1823. I have deliberately omitted the final paragraph which contains the verdict. Read the account, and lets have your own verdicts. Guilty, or Not Guilty? > > I will post the verdict tomorrow night.:-) > > Regards, > > Keith. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > >From The Times, 25th. August, 1823 > > CARNARVON GREAT SESSIONS > > MURDER - THE KING v. ELIZABETH MANNING > > Mr. COCKRELL having opened the indictment, Mr. WYATT, the Attorney-General, in a very feeling and impressive manner opened the case. > > Thomas Thomas, of Bangor-ferry, examined by Mr. COCKRELL. - I am a chaise-driver; I live near Bangor-ferry; I live in the cottage next door to the deceased Mr. Manning's house. I saw the deceased about half-past eight on Monday evening, 4th of August instant, before his death; Mrs. Manning was arm-in-arm with him; he had her pattens in his hand. The two houses are separated by a stone-wall, I think. It was difficult in the night when one is between sleep and awake to hear what passed in the other house. I think we could hear if we applied our ears to hear. I awoke in the morning of the 5th about two o'clock, and heard a noise in the deceased's house; it appeared to be moaning proceeding from deceased's house; it lasted ten minutes or less; I went to sleep directly after. I got up five minutes before six next morning to go to my work; I heard the door of the next house shut, and saw Mrs. Manning; she was going out of the house, and was proceeding towards Penychwyntan, on the ! > road to Carnarvon. I did not see her come out; I could not. I then went to work. > > Emma Thomas - I am the wife of the last witness. I know Mr. Manning, he lived under the same roof with us, not in the same house, the two houses are divided by a partition. I do not know what the partition is, whether of stone or not. We lived in one, and they lived in the other. I was awoke on Tuesday morning, the 5th instant, my husband awoke me between two and three in the morning. I slept a little, and then awoke again, and I then heard the clock strike three; when my husband awoke me I heard a noise. The noise proceeded from the adjoining house, where Mr. and Mrs. Manning lived: the noise was like moaning and crying like a woman in distress; I thought she was in distress, I thought he had struck her; it lasted about ten minutes; we then slept. > > Examined by CHIEF JUSTICE - When I heard the crying, I believed it was Mrs. Manning's voice. When I heard the crying it was between two and three in the morning. I knew the deceased for about three months before his death. I always considered him out of his mind. I slept very sound after three o'clock. > > R. A. Poole, Esq. - I am son to the prisoner. I recollect her coming to me on Tuesday morning, the 5th inst., to my lodgings at Carnarvon. It was before I got up, I think about eight o'clock. She came straight to my bed-room, in much distress, and much agitated; by saying "she came straight," I mean she came hastily, without knocking; she had come several times before, but knocked, or sent up my servant first. I think the first thing she said was "I do not know on earth what to do, Manning is dead, he has cut his throat." I think before I got up she showed me her hand, which was cut on the fore-finger. I got up immediately. I saw my clerk go by, and sent him immediately for the coroner, and desired him to call at Gorphwysfa, that he might know where this had happened. I got a chaise, and took my mother to Gorphwysfa; I met my sisters at the door, and told them what had happened. I called for the gardener, who was the only man-servant about the house, to go with me to the hou! > se of the deceased: he was not in the way. I then asked a maid-servant to go with me to Mr. Manning's house. We went there. I asked my mother on the road from Carnarvon to Gorphwysfa, for the key of the house; she felt her pocket, and gave it me. With the key I opened the door, and went into the house. I went upstairs, the servant followed. I saw the body of Mr. Manning, upon the bed, with his head towards the entrance from the stairs. The head of the bed was the other way. There was a sheet upon the body, up to his breast. I did not touch the body, or any thing in the room. There was a great deal of blood on the floor, and some of it was partly wiped. I should think it was wiped with a mop or wet cloth. The great mass of blood was only wiped. A number of spots of blood were untouched. I saw a razor shut, upon the drawers. The window was open. I touched nothing, and desired the servant not to touch any thing, and she did not. > > Robert Roberts, wheelwright - I knew Mr. Manning, and had often seen him. On Tuesday, the 5th of August inst., I went through the window into the room, where I heard that he had destroyed himself; it was about two o'clock in the afternoon. I went in first, and called another man, H. Hughes, blacksmith, to follow me. I saw the body in the room, on the bed, with the head towards the feet of the bed. When I went in, the bed was on my right hand. I called Hugh Hughes, and when he came we looked upon the body. It was covered with a sheet. We touched nothing, and went down stairs. I opened the door, and let several persons, who were by the door, in, and we all went up stairs, when we saw a razor upon the table, upon a cloth, upon the chest. The floor appeared bloody, and partly wiped or mopped; we continued about a minute, and left every thing as we found it. It was about two o'clock in the afternoon when we went there. > > Mr. Poole again examined by the CHIEF JUSTICE - I went there about ten o'clock in the morning. > > Robert Roberts in continuation - We remained in the house about two minutes, merely looked at the body, and left every thing as they were. I was at the house when the coroner was there the next day (Wednesday the 6th.); I saw the constable open a bundle. It was in the room where the deceased lay, near the top of the stairs, upon a stool, and not in the least concealed. > > Edward Carreg, Esq. - I am a coroner for Carnarvonshire. I was brought up a surgeon, but don't now practice. On Wednesday, the 5th of August, I went to the late Mr. Manning's house, about 12 o'clock. I think I went alone, or with another person, before the jury assembled. I saw the body upon the bed; and there was a sheet thrown over it. I did not examine the wounds, but desired the surgeons to do it. (Produces a razor.) I found this upon a table in the room. I do not know whether I took it, or the constable gave it me. > > By JUDGE KENRICK - I did not examine the body minutely, but looked cursorily over it. I do not know whether there was a pillow upon the bed or not. > > John Jonathan - I am constable of Bangor; I met Mrs. Manning on the road on Tuesday morning, the 5th instant, about six o'clock in the morning; she was walking towards Carnarvon; I met her near Tros Carrol, about half a mile from Bangor; she asked me if the mail has passed me? I said no, and she went on. I went to Mr. Manning's house on Wednesday, the next day, about 10 o'clock: I had summoned the Jury; I went to the bedroom of the deceased, and saw the body; the coroner desired me to search the room; I found a bundle of clothes upon a stool, at the top of the stairs; it was not at all concealed, and any body who went in might see it; it was covered with a blanket; had in it two sheets, two pillow-cases, a pillow, a chemise, a shirt, a man's and a woman's night cap, and a pair of white stockings; some of them were a good deal blooded; they were wet, some with blood, and some with water; I saw a razor in Dr. Carreg's hand; there I saw it first. I have got the clothes with me;! > they are now in the same state as I found them, except being dried; there is a small cut upon the pillow-case (produces it and the pillow); the pillow-case is very thin, and it may be a tear; the pillow is not cut, but the shirt is; I am not certain whether it is a cut or a tear (produces it). > > Chief Justice RAINE - It evidently is torn. > > Mr. Thomas Roberts - I am a surgeon at Bangor, and attended to examine the body of Mr. Manning, about two or three o'clock on the 6th inst. I found three wounds, two on the throat, and one from the right ear along the lower jaw to the chin; the wounds appeared to be made with a sharp instrument. The larger wound was enough to cause death, it being from near the right ear to about three inches beyond the left; from my observations I think that the large one was not cut first - that it was likely to produce immediate death. Neither of the wounds intersected each other, but were three distinct wounds. It occurred to me at the time that the large wound began from the right to the left, because I could hardly think a man committing suicide would begin so far back as three inches behind the ear. If it was so cut, it must have been done with the left hand. If it was done by any other person, it might begin at the right. > > Cross-examined by MR. BLACKBURN - The larger wound in my opinion, produced death in about half a minute. It was impossible a man could moan for ten minutes after receiving such a wound. The two small wounds appeared to be done first. If the larger wound was done by any body else, I do not think the deceased could in the least struggle after it was done. I should think the deceased, if alarmed with the two first small wounds, would have been able to struggle and resist. I can't say whether his arm was particularly muscular. He was a man not likely to be vanquished by the prisoner, after receiving the first two wounds. > > By the CHIEF JUSTICE - Supposing a man desperately bent upon self-destruction, with a razor or any sharp instrument, could he make the dreadful wound; and might he do it with the left hand assisted with the right? - I am clearly of the opinion that he might do it with the left hand alone; there were three small wounds on the left hand, two on the back, and one on the little finger. > > Mr. Hugh Jones, and another surgeon who examined the body, gave evidence similar. The last witness said he had known the deceased for some time past, and always considered him as a person of insane mind. > > Mr. ATTORNEY-GENERAL - I have closed the case for the Crown. > > Mr. PALMER, for the prisoner - Does your Lordship think that there has been sufficient evidence to put the prisoner upon her defence? > > CHIEF JUSTICE - What do you say, Mr. Attorney? > > ATTORNEY-GENERAL - My Lord, I am in this case only public prosecutor, performing a painful duty, and I can have no other wish than that justice may be done; I must therefore leave the case in your Lordship's hands. > > Mr. PALMER - My Lord, I, on the part of the prisoner, have no desire whatever to stop this case short, and on her part I court the closest investigation. > > CHIEF JUSTICE to the Attorney-General - From your opening, Mr. Attorney, which does you infinite honour (and which, if I shall have occasion to address the jury, I shall endeavour to repeat word for word), I expected the case would end as it has. > > Mr. PALMER (addressing himself to the jury.) - Gentlemen, are you or are you not fully satisfied of the prisoner's innocence, or do you wish to hear evidence on her behalf? If you are not satisfied, I, on the part of the prisoner, am prepared to enter into the fullest defence. > > (....................................Verdict to be announced....................................) > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gwynedd Family History Society > 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX > [email protected] or [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >