Hi, Just to recap. My first impression was that this name should be CILCENNIN, Cennin meaning leeks, but then it was pointed out that the name was actually CILCENNIS. In the meantime Allen Powell phoned the owner of the farm named so, but was told that the spelling was CILCENNUS which does make a difference. This now makes sense to a farmer and would translate as RETREAT OF THE SCALY CHAFF or SCALY CHAFF RETREAT. CIL meaning RETREAT, US meaning CHAFF and CEN meaning SCALE or SCURF. Now when a syllable is added to the word CEN it necessitates the doubling of the letter N as in CENNU (To Scale) or CENNOG (Scaly), therefore as in all the other names of what are called "townships" CILCENNUS makes sense in Welsh. Looking up these words in a reputable Welsh dictionary will confirm this. The trouble here is that a non Welsh speaker cannot pronounce the Welsh U and to his ear both CILCENNIS and CILCENNUS sound the same, which they are not. Regards, T. Meirion Hughes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Thomas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Cilcennis > Something about the name Cilcennis, in the original query, drew my > attention. Cilcennis is the name of an ancient town previously in > Denbighshire and, now, in Conwy, Caernarfonshire, Wales. On searching the > internet, a particular site drew my attention to a church that seemed > "eerily familiar", though I have never visited the UK. > > "The ancient parish of Llanrwst was of great extent. It comprised the > township of Gwydir, in Caernarfonshire; and a number of townships in > Denbighshire. These townships were "Cilcennis", Tre'r Dre Isaf, Tre'r Dre > Uchaf, Garthgyfannedd, Mathebrwd, Tybrith Isaf, Tybrith Uchaf, and Garth > Garmon. > > The church was founded in the sixth century by St. Grwst, and has been on > its present site since the thirteenth century. It was restored in 1884. The > church was in Denbighshire until 1974; and in Gwynedd from 1974 until 1996. > > It is now in Conwy County Borough." > > REFERENCE : www.clwydfhs.org.uk/churches/Llanrwst/ > > So, indeed, this town's name may have some connection with 6th century Saint > Grwst. Is there any research & documentation available on Celtic St. Grwst? > Could this be the Saint's home or final resting place {i.e.: Monk's > Retreat}? > > Grwst of the 6th century was given Sainthood in the 7th century by the > Catholic Church and the Welsh holiday of December 1st, St. Grwst's Feastday, > serves his remembrance. Per Catholic calendar, St. Grwst was a Welsh saint > honored at Llanrwst, Clwyd, Wales. > > Historically, how does "Clwyd" relate with Denbighshire in the 7th Century? > And, does the town of Cilcennis still exist today? > > > Sam Thomas > Roswell, Georgia > 770-643-8880 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Berwyn Williams" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 9:11 AM > Subject: [CAE] Re:Cilcennis > > > > Hellos listers > > Is it possible that Cilcennis is the Welsh parallel of Kilenny, Kildrummy, > > Kildonan et alia; place names in Ireland and Scotland derived from Gaelic. > > The word Kil indicating a cell or retreat of a monk of the old Celtic > > christian church. My Welsh Dictionary gives the meaning of Cil as corner > or > > retreat. If this is correct, then Cennis may have been particular > religous > > individual. > > Berwyn > > Aberdeenshire > > [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Allen Powell" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:01 AM > > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Thomas Hughes" PM > > > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > > > > > > > . . . . . . . . . . .CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me > and > > > even though another person informs us that there is such a place it > makes > > no > > > sense in Welsh. . . . . . . . That is why it is so important that > > > researchers do take care with the spellings. > > > > > > 1. I'm sure the vast majority of researchers do take care with their > > > spellings - it was the original recorder who made the mistakes, as > anyone > > > who has done any transcribing will confirm ! > > > 2. The present spelling is CILCENNUS; I spoke to the present owners of > the > > > farm this evening. Their daughter did some research some years ago and > > found > > > a record in Latin in the national Library at Aberystwyth which mentioned > > the > > > name, but she failed to find anyone who could translate it ! Another > > > researcher had found the name associated with a 'Court', but had not > > managed > > > to get any further. > > > All the best, > > > Allen (Criccieth). > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > > English are welcome > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. 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