Hi Alun, It is quite obvious to me that the enumerator knew nothing at all about the Welsh Language, which was quite common in those days. It was custom to employ someone who was at least semi literate in the English Language immaterial as to whether he had any knowledge of Welsh. In this case I would imagine that the address should read PEN Y BRAICH, which does not translate well and it was never meant to, but the literal translation is HEAD (or TOP) OF THE ARM. In Caernarfonshire it is likely that there are several farms/small holdings named PEN Y BRAICH and it would help if you were to indicate the area in Caernarfonshire your grandparents lived, otherwise you are likely to be sent on wild goose chases by well meaning individuals. Regards, . T Meirion Hughes. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 9:22 PM Subject: [CAE] Place Name > Name Request . I have from the census the name of my grandparents address > [a] Penny-Y-Braich in the 1881 census > [b] Peny-Y-Braich in the 1891 census > [c] Pentraich in the 1901 census > Does everyone agree that these three places are the same. > Thank you Alun. > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Thomas, I have studied your reply regarding the enumerators for the census of 1881, 1891, and 1901. I was rather puzzled to understand if you were implying that it was the same enumerator for each census over the twenty year period, or that on three occasions the enumerators were unable to give the correct spelling. I was also surprised to see your comment that knowing nothing of the Welsh language was quite common in Caernarfonshire in those days. I would have thought that it was a prime requirement to have some knowledge of Welsh to be able to extract census information from the many who were not bilingual. My main area of research is in the Garneddwen township of Ysceifiog, in Flintshire. In the years from 1550 to 1920 I have found thirty five variations for spelling Ysceifiog, and eleven for Garneddwen. All of these are from documents produced in Wales, and include legal documents, wills etc. As far as I am aware all were written by people from North Wales. David Lister. Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Hughes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Place Name > Hi Alun, > > It is quite obvious to me that the enumerator knew nothing at all about the > Welsh Language, which was quite common in those days. It was custom to > employ someone who was at least semi literate in the English Language > immaterial as to whether he had any knowledge of Welsh. In this case I would > imagine that the address should read PEN Y BRAICH, which does not translate > well and it was never meant to, but the literal translation is HEAD (or TOP) > OF THE ARM. > > In Caernarfonshire it is likely that there are several farms/small holdings > named PEN Y BRAICH and it would help if you were to indicate the area in > Caernarfonshire your grandparents lived, otherwise you are likely to be sent > on wild goose chases by well meaning individuals. > > Regards,