I am asking this on behalf of my father, Henry - he has concentrated on his family whereas I have been researching my mother's. He has always been stuck on one branch of his mother's family. His grandfather's grandparents, William Thomas (1815-1875) and Jane (1809-1885) together with William's brother John and his wife Catherine, came from Llyn to Dyffryn Nantlle to work in the quarries sometime soon after 1840. They originally lived next door to each other on Clogwyn Melyn before my ggggparents moved to Llwyndu and John and his family moved to Carmel. Mary, one of the daughters of William and Jane married Philip Thomas (c1850-1906) who came to Penygroes from Liverpool where his family lived. Both my father and Idris, one of Mary and Philip's descendants, believe Mary and Philip were related to each other, though don't know how distantly nor on which side. They named one of their children Philip as well, so it may be a family name, in the same way that William is still a family name. It could be that this branch of the family had gone from Llyn to Liverpool when the others went to Dyffryn Nantlle. My father has been unable to trace where in Llyn the family came from and, clutching at straws, thinks that a faint chance of finding this may be from the name Philip Thomas which might be easier to trace than William Thomas. My father remembers reading somewhere that Thomas was/is fairly uncommon in Llyn and Philip an even more uncommon first name. Last year he saw a death notice in the Daily Post for an elderly lady of Ffatri, Nanhoron who was the widow of a man called John Philip Thomas. He wonders whether the name is just coincidental or is it uncommon enough to be worth following up, though the family were not named in detail in the notice? I should add that the birth parish information he has for the family from the census is that William Thomas says he was born in Denio, Jane Thomas says she was born in Abererch but Morris, the only child to have been born before the move to Llanllyfni, either wasn't sure where he was born or the family moved around - in various censuses he gives Pistyll, Pwllheli, Carnguwch and once (not 1841) just Caernarvonshire. From these details and the fairly common names my father has not been able to identify the roots of this family with any certainty. Can anyone who has better knowledge of Llyn say whether the names Philip Thomas are rare or, even better, do the names above ring any bells? Thanks Rhian