I had this on file: Welsh Naming Pattern Assignment of Children's names Sons 1st son after the father's father 2nd son after the mother's father 3rd son after the father 4th son after the father's elsest brother 5th son after the mother's eldest brother Daughters 1st daughter after the mother's mother 2nd daughter after the father's mother 3rd daughter after the mother 4th daughter after the mother's eldest sister 5th daughter after the father's eldest sister The pattern was not followed exactly, but usually kept to the pattern for the first three children. Rachel CT,USA I Thompson <joscyn@hotmail.com> wrote: Dear list, I seem to remember there being a URL to which we can point new members regarding patronymics and the old list debate about "Welsh naming patterns" about which we seem to have decided that patterns can't be relied upon but do exist. Could someone point the new members to any site with more information? Ian London SW9 ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== Rhagorol - online Gwynedd Archive http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/Rhagorol/cgi-bin/browse_archive.pl ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

They generally named the first son after one of his grandfathers, first girl after her grandmother, then uncles, aunts. If a child died, the usually named the next child born of that sex after the deceased child. Have you looked at any of the census' of Wales yet? Arlene Berta > greatx2grandfather edward roberts born st george denbighshire . born 1841, > on my greatgrandfather marriage certificate he was a gamekeeper, found him > as a game keeper in 1871,1881. in an llanglynin caerbun.,most of children > born in caerbun. ann 1862,john 1865,richard 1867,edward 1868,jacob in > 1870,william charles18 72,amelia 1873,martha ellen 1878,griffith > 1885,edward > 1887,jane 1890, margaret born1896. my quetion does anybody recognire this > family? also do the welsh have family naming patterns? as i have no idea > who > edwards parents were? or margarets his wifes maiden name? very new to > welsh > genealogy? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Ieuwyn@aol.com> > To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:06 AM > Subject: Re: [CAE] o/t WAMKEN - animal dealer? > > >> Hello Gwyn, >> No Wamken, Wamkin or Wamkan in the whole of Wales in 1881 - sorry for >> negative response. >> Ieuan. >> >> >> ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. >> www.llgc.org.uk/ >> holi@llgc.org.uk >> >> ============================== >> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> >> > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > www.llgc.org.uk/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > --

FOR THE ATTENTION OF WTJ1509@aol.com. In an email dated March 7th 06 in answer to a Family History question by Gwen Cunningham, you state that the translation of PEN Y CAFNAU is Head of the Launders and refer to it as being connected to a nearby Watermill. Now any first language Welsh speaker will tell you that CAFN(AU) in English is TROUGH(S). e.g CAFN MOCHYN (PIG TROUGH). Furthermore, I have checked several English/Welsh Dictionaries including the one by Bruce Griffith and Dafydd Glyn Jones, priced £40, which is regarded as the most comprehensive one now available, and LAUNDER is translated as GOLCHI (TO WASH). Of course, it has also another meaning associated with crime TO LAUNDER MONEY and this is given in other dictionaries. I then looked up the word LANDER in case it was spelt incorrectly, and found as I suspected that it is translated into English as GUTTER referring mainly to roof guttering. Then I thought whether you had made a mistake with the word LLAFN(AU) which is similar and means BLADE(S) and there are blades on a waterwheel. I am not saying that the word LAUNDER, in the way which you translated it, does not exist, but I would be pleased if you could supply me with the source of your information that LAUNDER(S) does refer to the trough like appearance of the blades as I find this rather intriguing. Regards, T Meirion Hughes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwen Cunningham" <gwenny@snet.net> To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: Re: ATB: [CAE] early Caernarvon marriages--Lloyd > on 3/7/06 4:52 AM, WTJ831509@aol.com at WTJ831509@aol.com wrote: > Hi Bill, > Please forgive my late reply and thanks. I was looking over one of the O/S > maps I have and discovered that it included Dolwyddelan! I remembered that > I > had received an email about it and went back and looked and found that I > had > not answered your email to me. > > The map does indeed show Pentre Bont and Pentre Felin. When I was going > through the Bishop's Transcripts for the children of William Bellis and > his > wife Jane Richard each of the christening entries lists their residence as > Tuyn y cwm (as best I can make out) it could also be tnyn y cwm. I have > been > looking on the map but can't seem to find it, do you know where it is? > Thank > you for your time and help. > Gwen Cunningham >> Hi Gwen, >> >> You probably have these as well. They come under burials at Dolwyddelan. >> >> Catherine, daughter of Ellis Morgan of Pentre, Baker and Ellin his wife >> was >> buried 25th day of January 1748. >> >> Margaret Ellis Morgan of Pentre was buried January 22 1777. >> >> Rowland Morgan of Rhiwgoch, pauper was buried 6th of March 1793. >> >> Dolwyddelan in those days was split into two small hamlets, one named >> Pentre Bont (The village of >> >> the bridge), and the other named Pentre Felin (The village of the Mill). >> This would make a lot of sense, >> >> being that Ellis Morgan was classed as a baker. There is a house in >> that >> area even now called Pen y >> >> Cafnau, which when translated means head of the launders. These launders >> were the means of >> >> getting the water to the waterwheel, to power the mill. >> >> Happy >> hunting >> >> Bill >> Jones >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> Rhagorol - online Gwynedd Archive >> http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/Rhagorol/cgi-bin/browse_arc >> hive.pl >> >> ============================== >> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Rhagorol - online Gwynedd Archive > http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/Rhagorol/cgi-bin/browse_archive.pl > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Looking for people researching these two family's JONES and ROBERTS from LlANDUDNO JONES 1 Pembroke Villas New Street Llandudno in 1891 William Jones head 64 Elizabeth Jones wife 62 Alice Annie Jones 20 Mary Elizabeth Jones 28 Robert Jones 30 William Hugh Jones grandson 8 Hugh Robert son in law 24 Kate Roberts married to Hugh 23 and ROBERTS living at Wyddfyd Cottages Llandudno in1891 Robert Roberts head 53 Ann Roberts 62 David Roberts 21 Elizabeth 12 Regards Jeff

on 3/12/06 2:03 PM, WTJ831509@aol.com at WTJ831509@aol.com wrote: Bill, Thanks very much for he info, I have located it on my map! William Ab Ellis was the son of Ellis Morgan of Pentre in Dolwyddelan. I found the christening entries for the children of William and his wife Jane Richard and also their marriage. Also I found the christening records for William and his brothers and sisters in the BTs. I found the death record for Ellis Morgan in 1777 and it lists him as a poor man of Pentre. So far I haven't been able to go any further back. I did get a marriage reference from the David Hayes early marriage index and I'm waiting for that for Ellis Morgan and Ellin. A lot of records are missing early on. Thanks! Gwen > Hello Gwen > Tyn y cwm is in the Penamnen valley about a mile and a half south of > Dolwyddelan. Where the reputed Sarn Helen (Roman road) runs through. I am at > present doing some research into the farmsteads in this valley and the > families > that lived there. I seem to remember coming across the Bellis family with > connection in the valley. > I will of course let you know what I find > Happy hunting > Bill Jones > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English > are welcome > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

Hello Gwen Tyn y cwm is in the Penamnen valley about a mile and a half south of Dolwyddelan. Where the reputed Sarn Helen (Roman road) runs through. I am at present doing some research into the farmsteads in this valley and the families that lived there. I seem to remember coming across the Bellis family with connection in the valley. I will of course let you know what I find Happy hunting Bill Jones

on 3/7/06 4:52 AM, WTJ831509@aol.com at WTJ831509@aol.com wrote: Hi Bill, Please forgive my late reply and thanks. I was looking over one of the O/S maps I have and discovered that it included Dolwyddelan! I remembered that I had received an email about it and went back and looked and found that I had not answered your email to me. The map does indeed show Pentre Bont and Pentre Felin. When I was going through the Bishop's Transcripts for the children of William Bellis and his wife Jane Richard each of the christening entries lists their residence as Tuyn y cwm (as best I can make out) it could also be tnyn y cwm. I have been looking on the map but can't seem to find it, do you know where it is? Thank you for your time and help. Gwen Cunningham > Hi Gwen, > > You probably have these as well. They come under burials at Dolwyddelan. > > Catherine, daughter of Ellis Morgan of Pentre, Baker and Ellin his wife was > buried 25th day of January 1748. > > Margaret Ellis Morgan of Pentre was buried January 22 1777. > > Rowland Morgan of Rhiwgoch, pauper was buried 6th of March 1793. > > Dolwyddelan in those days was split into two small hamlets, one named > Pentre Bont (The village of > > the bridge), and the other named Pentre Felin (The village of the Mill). > This would make a lot of sense, > > being that Ellis Morgan was classed as a baker. There is a house in that > area even now called Pen y > > Cafnau, which when translated means head of the launders. These launders > were the means of > > getting the water to the waterwheel, to power the mill. > > Happy > hunting > > Bill > Jones > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Rhagorol - online Gwynedd Archive > http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/Rhagorol/cgi-bin/browse_arc > hive.pl > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >

Hi Gwen, Probably of little use but there was a Jane HAMKEN, born about 1837, Ireland on the 1861 Census - RG9/2670 Folio 93 Page 3. Living in Liverpool, working as a servant. Your man may have been in Ireland, my ancestors imported horses in from Ireland in the years you are looking at. Cherie ----- Original Message ----- From: <gwyng@bushinternet.com> To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:44 PM Subject: [CAE] o/t WAMKEN - animal dealer? > Is there someone with access to the 1881 or 91 British census who can help > with: > John ('Jack') WAMKEN or similar - Wamkin, Wamkan > I have 3 letters referring to him, dated 1880 to 1887. They are all from > people involved in animal dealing - Jamrach of London, Hagenbeck of > Hamburg, and Cross of Liverpool. > I have no idea where he lived, nor of his age, but Cross had dealt with > him for 25 years, which takes us back to c.1862. > So can anyobody suggest any leads for this rather unusual name? > No known Caernarfonshire links, but I know what a kind, helpful lot you > all are . . . > Gwyn > Crewe UK > >

I think you'll find that CAERBUN is supposed to be CAERHUN. There was a large property in CAERHUN called CAERHUN HALL I believe and maybe that's where he was "Gamekeeper". I will look him up on the 1861 and 1851 for you. Susan Connecticut, USA greatx2grandfather edward roberts born st george denbighshire . born 1841, on my greatgrandfather marriage certificate he was a gamekeeper, found him as a game keeper in 1871,1881. in an llanglynin caerbun.,most of children born in caerbun. ann 1862,john 1865,richard 1867,edward 1868,jacob in 1870,william charles18 72,amelia 1873,martha ellen 1878,griffith 1885,edward 1887,jane 1890, margaret born1896. my quetion does anybody recognire this family? also do the welsh have family naming patterns? as i have no idea who edwards parents were? or margarets his wifes maiden name? very new to welsh genealogy?

greatx2grandfather edward roberts born st george denbighshire . born 1841, on my greatgrandfather marriage certificate he was a gamekeeper, found him as a game keeper in 1871,1881. in an llanglynin caerbun.,most of children born in caerbun. ann 1862,john 1865,richard 1867,edward 1868,jacob in 1870,william charles18 72,amelia 1873,martha ellen 1878,griffith 1885,edward 1887,jane 1890, margaret born1896. my quetion does anybody recognire this family? also do the welsh have family naming patterns? as i have no idea who edwards parents were? or margarets his wifes maiden name? very new to welsh genealogy? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ieuwyn@aol.com> To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [CAE] o/t WAMKEN - animal dealer? > Hello Gwyn, > No Wamken, Wamkin or Wamkan in the whole of Wales in 1881 - sorry for > negative response. > Ieuan. > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > www.llgc.org.uk/ > holi@llgc.org.uk > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Good Morning Gwyn; I did a search of 1881National Index CDs. There were no Wamken/in/an, or Hamken/in/an or Mamken/in/an or Tamken/in/an in England or Wales in 1881; There were of course a few John Tomkins/Tonkin (no Jack) in Wales as well as England. Rachel CT, USA Cherie Everett <cherie.everett@btopenworld.com> wrote: Hi Gwen, Probably of little use but there was a Jane HAMKEN, born about 1837, Ireland on the 1861 Census - RG9/2670 Folio 93 Page 3. Living in Liverpool, working as a servant. Your man may have been in Ireland, my ancestors imported horses in from Ireland in the years you are looking at. Cherie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:44 PM Subject: [CAE] o/t WAMKEN - animal dealer? > Is there someone with access to the 1881 or 91 British census who can help > with: > John ('Jack') WAMKEN or similar - Wamkin, Wamkan > I have 3 letters referring to him, dated 1880 to 1887. They are all from > people involved in animal dealing - Jamrach of London, Hagenbeck of > Hamburg, and Cross of Liverpool. > I have no idea where he lived, nor of his age, but Cross had dealt with > him for 25 years, which takes us back to c.1862. > So can anyobody suggest any leads for this rather unusual name? > No known Caernarfonshire links, but I know what a kind, helpful lot you > all are . . . > Gwyn > Crewe UK > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== http://www.archiveshub.ac.uk/inst/uwbangor.shtml Bangor University Archives ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Is there someone with access to the 1881 or 91 British census who can help with: John ('Jack') WAMKEN or similar - Wamkin, Wamkan I have 3 letters referring to him, dated 1880 to 1887. They are all from people involved in animal dealing - Jamrach of London, Hagenbeck of Hamburg, and Cross of Liverpool. I have no idea where he lived, nor of his age, but Cross had dealt with him for 25 years, which takes us back to c.1862. So can anyobody suggest any leads for this rather unusual name? No known Caernarfonshire links, but I know what a kind, helpful lot you all are . . . Gwyn Crewe UK

Hello Gwyn, No Wamken, Wamkin or Wamkan in the whole of Wales in 1881 - sorry for negative response. Ieuan.

Dear Ion, Cannot remember which list this shd be going to! Sorry other listers. Try A2A (Access to Archives), the National Library of Wales, and Lambeth Palace Library (the last, email enquiries, I think). I have not had any luck on the IGI or Mormon census databases. Perhaps Thomas Arnold was not actually born in Monmouth at all... Just thinking, father Francis a clergyman... peripatetic lifestyle... possibly changing parish often in the early years... Thomas could have been raised in Monmouthshire but not born there?? Also, to explain why no Thomases apparently appear on the Mormon 1881 census, maybe Thomas was "farmed out" to relatives or a school? You know that when Thomas married, father Francis had died... You could check central probate records going backwards for a Francis but may take a long time! Ancestry.com have the 1871 census... Any Francis Williams, clergymen on there? Or Mary Woolleys? I also wondered whether Francis was a Forces Chaplain - like father, like son? This might explain the paucity of info apparent?? I think overall, it is worth going first to Anglican records and Lambeth Palace will,i am sure, be able to help. I think you may find some info on your Francis Williams that could lead you to a will, obituary and possibly info on where he hailed from. Yours, Ian London SW9

Hi, I do believe that the best place for you to contact with regard to your request for an extract from Pennant's Tours of Wales would be the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth. For their email address, any search engine will enlighten you. All the best, T Meirion Hughes, Resident Historian, Caernarfon Online, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul pinder" <thepinders@tds.net> To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:17 AM Subject: [CAE] Pennants "Tours of Wales" > Hi, > Does anyone out there know of or even have access to Pennants "Tours of > Wales".Apparently the book mentions Nant Gwythern and in particular three > farms - Ty Hen , Ty Canol and Ty Uchaf. > I am interested to know what it says about Ty Canol as my Griffiths and > Rowlands relatives lived at Ty Canol.There is also aparently a story about > ELIS BACH a dwarf who lived at Ty Canol.I don't know if this character is > mentioned in Pennants book too but I found out about both at the following > site :- > http://www.acen.co.uk/nant/history.shtml > Anyone with any further info would be most welcome > Thanks > Paul > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

Hi, Does anyone out there know of or even have access to Pennants "Tours of Wales".Apparently the book mentions Nant Gwythern and in particular three farms - Ty Hen , Ty Canol and Ty Uchaf. I am interested to know what it says about Ty Canol as my Griffiths and Rowlands relatives lived at Ty Canol.There is also aparently a story about ELIS BACH a dwarf who lived at Ty Canol.I don't know if this character is mentioned in Pennants book too but I found out about both at the following site :- http://www.acen.co.uk/nant/history.shtml Anyone with any further info would be most welcome Thanks Paul

Try DINAS, LLEYN Meirion ----- Original Message ----- From: <mpalik@aol.com> To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: [CAE] Robert Roberts - Margaret Evans > First attempt to get information on this site. My mother was born in > Wales and I am tracing her family. I have names and some information. > Starting with Robert Roberts b. 1827, Bryncroes, Caernarvonshire, d. > 1915 Dians, Lleyn (?), son of Samuel Roberts > Married Margaret Evans, b. about 1825, died 23 May 1906 in > Caernavonshire. > Their first child (as far as I know) was Catherine, b. abt. 1851. I am > assuming the marriage took place a year or two before that. > Other children - Sam (b. abt. 1855), Margaret- 1857, John -1859, > Robert - 1861, William - 1863, Hugh (my grandfather) -12 Nov 1864, > Hannah - 1867, David - 1869, Evan > > Catherine married J. Williams > John came to the US in 1907, died here in 1917 > Hugh married Jannet Griffiths, had 7 children and came to the US in > 1905/06 > Hannah was alive in 1950 > > I would like to find the marriage record of Robert Roberts and > Margaret Evans. If Margaret followed the naming system with her > children, her father was John and her mother Catherine. > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > www.llgc.org.uk/ > holi@llgc.org.uk > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

In a message dated 09/03/2006 22:00:40 GMT Standard Time, mpalik@aol.com writes: Bryncroes Hello The family are in Bryncroes in 1871. Robert gives his place of birth as Llaniestyn. They are at the same abode in 1861 with the eldest child given as Catherine. I can send you the images off list if you haven't got them Regards Maggi (Blythin)

You pose several questions and I tried to answer some of them inside your text... To find the marriage of Robert Roberts and Margaret Evans (both common names) you must find the parish in which they at least had their first child, and start there. Once you have found the birth place you can order microfilm of the parish church(es) and scroll through them to find the birth(s) and then prior to the births a possible marriage...yes I would generally look abt 2 years beofre birth of fist child, it's a good rule of thumb...but could be anything from 5 years before to the year of the birth. The marriage occurs after 1837 which is post Civil Registration so it will be recorded. Have you checked the IGI ? If you are unfamiliar, pls go to _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) and start there, it's a free site. I have access to census 1851- 1901 if you would like any look ups. Can't find Robert & Mgt in 1851 yet...I'll keep looking... 1861: Tanrallt, Bryncroes, Caernarvonshire Robert, 34, Blacksmith b. Llanistyn, Caer Mgt, 36, b. Llanengan Catherine 10 (?) b. Llanistyn Evan 8 b. Llanistyn Samuel 6, b. Bryncroes Mgt 4 b. Bryncroes John 2 b. Bryncroes Robert 3 months b. Bryncroes __________________________________________________________________ Starting with Robert Roberts b. 1827, Bryncroes, Caernarvonshire, d. 1915 Dians,(maybe DINAS?) Lleyn (?) (YES..COREECT SPELLING), son of Samuel Roberts Married Margaret Evans, b. about 1825, died 23 May 1906 in Caernavonshire. Their first child (as far as I know) was Catherine, b. abt. 1851. I am assuming the marriage took place a year or two before that. (I WOULD ALSO ASSUJME THAT...RULE OF THUMB) Other children - Sam (b. abt. 1855), Margaret- 1857, John -1859, Robert - 1861, William - 1863, Hugh (my grandfather) -12 Nov 1864, Hannah - 1867, David - 1869, Evan Catherine married J. Williams. John came to the US in 1907, died here in 1917. Hugh married Jannet Griffiths, had 7 children and came to the US in 1905/06. Hannah was alive in 1950 I would like to find the marriage record of Robert Roberts and Margaret Evans. If Margaret followed the naming system with her children, her father was John and her mother Catherine. (CAN"T ASSUME THAT BUT CAN CHECK FOR SURE) SUSAN DAVIES Connecticut, USA

First attempt to get information on this site. My mother was born in Wales and I am tracing her family. I have names and some information. Starting with Robert Roberts b. 1827, Bryncroes, Caernarvonshire, d. 1915 Dians, Lleyn (?), son of Samuel Roberts Married Margaret Evans, b. about 1825, died 23 May 1906 in Caernavonshire. Their first child (as far as I know) was Catherine, b. abt. 1851. I am assuming the marriage took place a year or two before that. Other children - Sam (b. abt. 1855), Margaret- 1857, John -1859, Robert - 1861, William - 1863, Hugh (my grandfather) -12 Nov 1864, Hannah - 1867, David - 1869, Evan Catherine married J. Williams John came to the US in 1907, died here in 1917 Hugh married Jannet Griffiths, had 7 children and came to the US in 1905/06 Hannah was alive in 1950 I would like to find the marriage record of Robert Roberts and Margaret Evans. If Margaret followed the naming system with her children, her father was John and her mother Catherine.